Which FTxx service(s) are available?

With my FTTC service taking a dislike to what I am assuming for the moment are Christmas light, street lights etc, my once 37/7.6 is today 31.1/6.7 and it has been worse; became curious as to what is available.

The BT Broadband Availability checker, accessed through my ISP Andrews & Arnold shows me

VDSL Range A (Clean) 46.1 - 32.4 / 8.4 - 5.8 WBC FTTC Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 44.3 - 27.4 / 8.3 - 5.2 WBC FTTC Available

FTTP on Demand 330 / 30 WBC FTTP Available

WBC SOGEA Availability Date ---

Observed Speeds VDSL 34.99 / 7.66 2018-12-26

Bridge Tap N, VRI N and NTE Faceplate N (Strange, since BT fitted one with FTTC)

Than at the bottom beneath the Table; "FTTP is not available"

The BT Wholesale Availability Checker, again through A&A gives: exactly the same.

The line from the exchange, Hawarden which is a Market B Exchange, is estimated at 2084m and we are about 500m away from the cabinet. The underground is I've been told aluminium, circa 60 years old (some poles and houses around here still have the two ceramic insulators for open drop wires).

My interpretation of BT's figures is that if I want to pay a lot of money, then I can order FTTP on Demand, but standard FTTP (which I understand is charged the same as FTTC) is not available.

What difference does it make being in the WBC area? Similarly being on a Market B exchange?

Thanks.

Cheers!

You can either pay a shed load of money, and go with FTTPoD or stick with what you've got.

WBC and your market are not relevant.

What difference does it make being in the WBC area? Similarly being on a Market B exchange?

Market A/B makes little to no difference to the availability of FTTx services.

Market A exchanges are usually smaller with less choice of suppliers.
Market B the opposite.

Over 98% of homes are connected to a market B exchange.

Most people connected to a Market A exchange have the fibre for FTTC/FTTP come from a larger Market B exchange.

WBC FTTP is just the name of full fibre.

There's no WBC areas as such.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

WBC FTTP is just the name of full fibre.

Errr, not quite.

It is the name of full fibre from a BT Wholesale-based ISP. It is not what Sky provide for FTTC and FTTP or TalkTalk for FTTC. They use straight GEA FTTx products from Openreach.

WBC and WBMC constitute the BT Wholesale infrastructure. With perhaps a few straggling ADSL Max exchanges still to be converted.

After spending some time trying to understand what, if any, differences are, that was about my conclusion too.

Will see what post twinkling Xmas lights brings...

Cheers!

In one BT document I came across, and in true web surfing mode cannot find again there was a map showing the WBC area, which covered most of the UK.

We were in, not sure what it would mean if we were not?

Was hoping that it related to where extra funding had been put in by local or central government.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Similarly being on a Market B exchange?

Definition of Market A and Market B:-

4.1 In this Section we conclude that there are two distinct geographic markets for WBA in the UK excluding the Hull Area (covering 99.4% of UK premises):

� Market A (0.9% of premises) � areas in the UK where there is limited or no network competition (exchange areas which are BT-only or BT+1 Principal Operator (PO, which we define later)); and

� Market B (98.5% of premises) � areas in the UK where there is sufficient network competition (exchange areas which are at least BT+2POs).

4.2 The size of Market A has reduced since our consultation (and is now much smaller than at the time of the 2014 WBA statement). This change since our June 2017 consultation has primarily been driven by an increase in the number of premises covered by BT�s FTTC-enabled cabinets, and the increase in take-up of GEA services by Local Loop Unbundling Operators (LLUOs).

Ofcom Wholesale Broadband Access Market Review 2018 (WBA = Wholesale Broadband Access, by any supplier not just BT Wholesale).

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

In one BT document I came across, and in true web surfing mode cannot find again there was a map showing the WBC area, which covered most of the UK.

We were in, not sure what it would mean if we were not?

Was hoping that it related to where extra funding had been put in by local or central government.

Cheers!

WBC (including WBMC) means in old money 21CN broadband from BT Wholesale. I.e. ADSL2+ and above from them independent of what any other supplier may offer. Though the probability of there being anything except ADSL Max is extremely low. Maybe some mobile broadband these days?

The difference between WBC and WBMC is just in the way it is handed over from BT Wholesale to BTW-based ISPs at the nodes around the country.

Ah well, looks like FTTC will continue for me at the moment.

During recent weeks the Downstream SNR has been as high as 13dB but still frequent drops as well as low speed. My problem I think is the Upstream side where the SNR is invariably 6dB regardless of anything else.

Makes me wonder whether the drops are caused by loss of Upstream?

Cheers!

Do you run DSLStats/DSLStatsLite?

Could you give us a couple of full sets of stats, say tonight and some time tomorrow? Preferably of the telnet kind not from the router GUI.

Hi Bob

We had a problem getting stats back in July, your theory was that DrayTek had blocked access to the Broadcom chip and via Telnet there was little available.
Telnet Access is given on p 446 of the Vigor 2762 User Guide
.
Account: xxxxxxxxxxx
Password: *********************

Type ? for command help

DrayTek> vdsl
% Valid subcommands are:
status idle drivermode reboot annex showbins

optn savecfg vendorid snr inventory

DrayTek> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 32397000 bps US Actual Rate : 7616000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 45766700 bps US Attainable Rate : 7612000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 22 dB Cur SNR Margin : 12 dB
DS actual PSD : 5. 8 dB US actual PSD : 11. 2 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 17970
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 17213
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 5
ITU Version[0] : 00000000 ITU Version[1] : 00000000
VDSL Firmware Version : 07-07-09-05-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 33 dB Far SNR Margin : 6 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da48c
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >
DrayTek>

Whether there is sufficient there I don't know.

I don't run DSLStats/DSLStatsLite

Cheers!

The downstream has been capped/banded at 32.4Mb.
It won't sync above this until DLM removes the cap or the ISP has the DLM reset.

Hi John. If that is the same or similar to the Tx Rate set by my ISP, that has been set everywhere from 28.070 to 39.099 during the last couple of months. (I have a 40/10 service)
Yet from the status report, the DS Attainable Rate is showing at 45.766 which I assume refers to the capability of the line rather than what service I am connected to.

My "theory" is that I am loosing connection due to Upstream, but the DLM fix is to drop the DS speed. I Note here that the status report is showing a lower US Attainable Rate 7612000 than my Actual US Rate of 7616000 which to me seems odd.

Cheers!

Hi Bob here is a second set of stats, just taken at 11:02


Account: xxxxxxxxxxx
Password: *********************

Type ? for command help

DrayTek> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 32397000 bps US Actual Rate : 7616000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 46145180 bps US Attainable Rate : 7612000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 22 dB Cur SNR Margin : 12 dB
DS actual PSD : 5. 8 dB US actual PSD : 11. 2 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 17974
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 17217
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 5
ITU Version[0] : 00000000 ITU Version[1] : 00000000
VDSL Firmware Version : 07-07-09-05-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 33 dB Far SNR Margin : 6 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da48c
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >
DrayTek>

Looks very similar to last night.

I will re-boot the DrayTek and see what I get. (I will do it from the System Maintenance screen)

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I Note here that the status report is showing a lower US Attainable Rate 7612000 than my Actual US Rate of 7616000 which to me seems odd.

Cheers!

It's not odd and perfectly normal, at resync time the modem will sync at the appropriate speed for the target SNR. After resync the SNR on the line can alter so you will often see attainable speeds lower or higher than actual sync speed.

Here are the stats again following a reboot:-


Account: xxxxxxxxxxx
Password: *********************

Type ? for command help

DrayTek> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 32397000 bps US Actual Rate : 7608000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 46563688 bps US Attainable Rate : 7608000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 22 dB Cur SNR Margin : 12 dB
DS actual PSD : 5. 9 dB US actual PSD : 11. 2 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 17974
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 17217
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 1
ITU Version[0] : fe004452 ITU Version[1] : 41590000
VDSL Firmware Version : 07-07-09-05-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 33 dB Far SNR Margin : 6 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da48c
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >
DrayTek>

All that jumps out at me, is that the DS Attainable has increased, the US Actual now equals the Attainable and a very slight change (o.1dB) to DS actual PSD.

Cheers!

Ah thanks, that explains why they were the same figure after I re-booted.

Cheers!

No it's not.

Look at the figure

DS Actual Rate : 32397000 bps

This is a banded/capped figure.
This is the sync speed that you are connected the the cabinet.
With a 40Mb package you should sync at 39,999 or 40,000 but your line ALWAYS syncs lower at 32.4Mb.

By the time you add overheads you will get about 30Mb instead of 37Mb you used to get.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

We had a problem getting stats back in July, your theory was that DrayTek had blocked access to the Broadcom chip and via Telnet there was little available.

I thought DrayTek use Infineon DSL chips rather than Broadcom chips.

Searching the user Guide (651 pages) Broadcom does not in fact appear, but the only reference to Infineon is, "II-3 Hardware Acceleration II-3 Hardware Acceleration
Hardware Acceleration is also called PPA in DrayTek for it is based on Protocol Processing Engine (PPE) of Infineon. It can only support 128 sessions for network traffic (IN & OUT) with implementing three kinds of modes - Disable, Auto and Manual.
Info Such feature is only supported by certain firmware version." The User Guide then goes into setting it up.

From the forum at kitz.co.uk https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=21608.0 the DrayTek 2762 uses Intel/Lantic. So you are correct, not Broadcom for a 2762.

Cheers!

The vast majority of Draytek devices have a Lantiq chipset.

I'm not aware of any DrayTek VDSL2 modem/routers with a Broadcom chipset.
Although would be happy to hear of any.