Can I tell if I have been put back down to ADSL?

Is there a way I can check using a BT HH6 if I am on VDSL or ADSL?

The reason I am asking is that I have recently requested a Sales Revert from BT when I was offered an unsuitable upgrade to my Broadband package, BT failed to cancel it before the job went ahead and have now got my account all twisted up so that I think I have been put back onto ADSL rather than my previous VDSL package.

I would like to check my facts before raising a complaint.

The history of my home is that it is a rural new build. It is around 3300m from the cabinet as the cable runs and I used to be on what I believed was BT Faster Broadband Unlimited 40/2 VDSL. I have a HH6 but tended to use my own Zyxel 3925-B10 and ASUS AC-RT86U. I regularly synced at around 8500 down, 1120 up with SNR readings in the range of 5 to 7dB. I am out of contract and was paying £51.49 for Broadband and Weekend phone calls and Landline.

A couple of weeks ago I started seeing offers on the My BT page saying that I was on "copper broadband" and should come and join the Fibre side for better speed and reliability. I was under the impression that I was already on VDSL, not copper but I tried to apply for the online offer of "Superfast Unlimited at the same price as you are currently paying for 18 months".

I am aware that ADSL products tend to be cheaper than VDSL and since I was out of contract anyway I thought I would see what the offer entailed. The website then said the offer was actually not available to me and I should contact the sales team.

The sales team said that I was apparently indeed on copper broadband and that I would get better speed and reliability on Superfast Unlimited but they could only offer a price freeze (at £51.49) for 18 months - no better price deal.

I thought I would take it up anyway just to make sure that I was on the most modern side of the cabinet and on the offchance that there would be a speed upgrade. I did mention my distance from the cabinet but I was informed that there should be at least a modest speed jump.

I agreed and waited for the confirmation email. It turns out they had actually signed me up for Superfast Plus Unlimited. The price would be held at £51.49 for 18 months then would rise another £7.50 to make up the difference between my current price and the Superfast Plus.

I decided this was not a good deal and phoned to cancel before the upgrade went through.

The UK sales rep agreed I would not see any improvement on speed and was giving up my "out of contract" benefit for nothing. He raised a Cancellation before the sale went ahead.

Unfortunately the tech team Rejected the cancel and proceeded with the upgrade anyway. When the service came back I was on EXACTLY the same speed as I had been before. Around 8500 down, 1120 up. No difference, as expected. Ah well at least I knew there would be no speed increase at that distance.

The Sales rep actually noticed and reopened the rollback request. It did not happen. The roll back request was simply ignored and closed again.

The next time I got through, the UK sales rep escalated to a Manager and asked for a "Sales Revert" which was scheduled for yesterday. I put the BT HH6 back on the line in anticipation.

When I checked the My BT page yesterday, it was back to showing BT Faster Broadband Unlimited and Weekend phone calls... but the speed was dreadful. I was now on 5400 down 448 up. I waited overnight for it to stabilise and there was no change. I also noticed the SNR on the up line was hugely different at 23dB. Surely the up line should resync faster if the signal was that good?

I turned off the BT HH6 and put my old Zyxel back on to check in DSLstats but immediately the Zyxel lit the orange DSL light and the red internet light. This made me worried. The BT HH6 worked, the Zyxel no longer did. I started wondering if I was on ADSL.

BT Availability Checker

BT HH6 Stats

I don't really know what I am looking for but in the HH6 logs is this... ":WAN: SENSING AUTO ADSL"

When I run a ThinkBroadband Speed Test and look at the stats, I see...

"Slower than 86.7% of tests in Scotland
Slower than 58.0% of tests on your ISP using ADSL/ADSL2+
Quality 2.42(E) is worse than average 0.76 on your ISP(A) for ADSL/ADSL2+"

Is there a way I can definitively check what package I am currently on before I phone back again and do you think I should raise a Complaint or a Fault? There is absolutely no point in threatening to leave as I have no alternative providers.

The modulation line shows you are on ADSL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.992.1

You are on G.992.1 which is adsl

VDSL and ADSL are both delivered over copper, but VDSL is perversely branded "fibre".

If you were getting >1Mbps upstream on 3km+ that means it's highly likely you were on VDSL. Of course, the only thing that really matters is what package you were paying for. If it was called "BT Faster Broadband 40/2" then it must be VDSL, since ADSL maxes at 24M.

Wrong marketing E-mails are quite common, and the website was quite right to reject your attempt to "upgrade".

BT should have put you back on the exact package you were before. However if you used the words "copper broadband" during this discussion then it seems someone might have thought you meant you wanted to be put onto ADSL

FWIW, £51.49 per month is a high price for VDSL. There are plenty of companies offering 40/10 at under £25 and 80/20 at under £30, including line rental (e.g. plusnet, sky, vodafone). Maybe you won't get evening/weekend calls, but typically add around £4 per month for unlimited anytime calls. These prices do tend to rise at the end of the contract period, but usually you just have to phone up and threaten to leave and they'll put you on the package they're offering new subscribers.

If you want to stay with BT, you have to get them to fix this mess and put you back on the exact same product you were on before. Otherwise, if they've confirmed you're still out of contract, then you can move.

I�m on FTTP at a property with no copper line whatsoever, and the BT site also claims I should upgrade from my �copper line� to fibre!

The account site is so broken.

Thanks to all the folks who have confirmed we have been put back onto ADSL.

If I wanted to keep the landline and its existing number but move the broadband to a different 40/10 provider, what are my options and what do I have to ask for?

I am still under the BT Line Rental Saver deal but it is coming up for renewal in April. The key thing for us is to keep the phone number if possible.

BT is too greedy, its prices away over the top. For some years I've been with Plusnet for £29.48 per month, made up by line rental in advance £16.49 pm, ADSL2 £5.99, anytime calls £7. Two year contract.

If you don't want anytime calls deduct £7 and I think weekend calls are free, so it's £22.48. On renewal last September they upgraded me to fibre for an extra penny per month. We're 3km from the exchange and the cabinet is 300m away; we had about 11Mb on ADSL2 and now have 35Mb on fibre at busy times, 36/37 off peak. I'm told the PN router (cost £7 postage) is just a BT HH6 in a simple sackcloth dress and we find it does all we need.

The only downside is the PN call centre waiting times though the UK staff are great when you do get through, and their nightmare accounts system which has screwed up every renewal. They will sort out the mischarging eventually, took them a couple of months, but once sorted we remain very pleased with our PN service. Hope this helps!

I will have a look at deals providing I can keep my existing landline number. I am also under the BT Line Rental Saver deal for a couple of months.

Sadly I am 3300m from the VDSL cabinet in a small group of 7 properties so our VDSL speeds tend to give us 7 down, 0.8 up. Two of my neighbours have paid for a second pair and had them bonded to give them 15 down but that is not a sensible option for me.

In reply to a post by DanielCoffey67:

I also noticed the SNR on the up line was hugely different at 23dB. Surely the up line should resync faster if the signal was that good?

On ADSL, which we've established you are on, the upstream maximum is the 448kbps you are on, though there is an option for upstream 832kbps. Whether BT Consumer offer that I don't know, and it would be more expensive.

As the others have said, you need to be returned to exactly what you were on before. If they can't do that, then I would have thought many BT Wholesale based ISPs would be available, such as Plusnet that has been mentioned. That isn't a certainty though. Just seeing what the likes of Plusnet, Aquiss and uno offer when you put your number in would tell you.

Also check what Sky and TalkTalk websites tell you, as the fact that samknows doesn't mention them is no longer reliable.

In reply to a post by DougM:

I�m on FTTP at a property with no copper line whatsoever, and the BT site also claims I should upgrade from my �copper line� to fibre!

The account site is so broken.

I totally agree, I am on Ultrafast 2 Plus with BT and yet when I check the site it says I cannot even get Ultrafast but can get Superfast 4 Fibre, their site is soooo broken and I have told them this a few times now and nothing has been fixed.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by DougM:

I�m on FTTP at a property with no copper line whatsoever, and the BT site also claims I should upgrade from my �copper line� to fibre!

The account site is so broken.

I totally agree, I am on Ultrafast 2 Plus with BT and yet when I check the site it says I cannot even get Ultrafast but can get Superfast 4 Fibre, their site is soooo broken and I have told them this a few times now and nothing has been fixed.

Paul

Seem to depend on what/where you check. On many checkers (Not ORs dsl which is correct) my phone number returns ADSL only but my postcode returns my FTTP!

Line rental can be a problem, I understand that if you leave an ISP before it's due for renewal you lose the rest of the year. One needs to work out whether it's worth losing a couple of months' rental to obtain a better deal elsewhere.

Plusnet was very helpful, bringing forward my existing ADSL contract expiry by a couple of months so the new VDSL contract would coincide with my advance LR each year. I fear the 18-month BB contract is designed to be out of synch and thereby lock customers in via their annual ALR. There should be no problem in keeping your phone number as BT owns PN ...

In reply to a post by Garlic:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I totally agree, I am on Ultrafast 2 Plus with BT and yet when I check the site it says I cannot even get Ultrafast but can get Superfast 4 Fibre, their site is soooo broken and I have told them this a few times now and nothing has been fixed.

Paul

Seem to depend on what/where you check. On many checkers (Not ORs dsl which is correct) my phone number returns ADSL only but my postcode returns my FTTP!

Well it was referring to BT's actual Ultrafast Checker, it use to work fine but for the last couple of months it has been broken and says Ultrafast isn't available, I have even checked friends that are also on Ultrafast with BT and it also says its not available to them as well.

BT seem happy to be told this, but after a month or two and its still broken is annoying due to I am mainly checking to see if the 3rd and 4th Ultrafast option has become available, due to I was told by BT to keep checking and when those option become available it will be displayed.

So like I have said where it says we cannot get ultrafast (even though we are currently still on it) points to their site being broken.

As for checking by phone number, sadly I cannot do that due to my phone line is via FVA and will not work in any checkers.

As for you using the Postcode checker if this is on the BTW Checker then you really need to check via the full address (i.e. Postcode and then your door number)

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 19-Jan-19 15:07:25)

In reply to a post by Garlic:

Seem to depend on what/where you check. On many checkers (Not ORs dsl which is correct) my phone number returns ADSL only but my postcode returns my FTTP!

ORs (or at least BT Wholesale) is also wrong. We are on VDSL at 4.1 up (3km to the cabinet) but the checker says it should be 1.2 up (max). It used to say 2-4 a year or so ago (which was when we switched) but now doesn't even though it has our 'observed' speed of 4.1 recorded on our line in December.

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 1 0.2 1.2 0.8 0.2 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 1 0.2 1.1 0.5 0.2 Available Available --

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 3 -- 1.5 to 5.5 Available -- --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 3 Up to 0.5 1.5 to 5.5 Available -- --
ADSL Max Up to 2 -- 1.5 to 4.5 Available -- --
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Observed Speeds

VDSL

Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 4.1
Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 1.01
Observed Date 2018-12-11
Other Offerings




Availability Date



VDSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
ADSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
Premise environment

Status

Bridge Tap Y
VRI N
NTEFaceplate N
Last Test Date 09-01-2019

I'm glad we switched when we did as the ADSL was so unreliable - dropping multiple times a week and requiring regular resets of the router (many different routers). VDSL has been a steady 4.1 for over a year now with no resets other than for power cuts.

It's also worth mentioning we had to switch to PlusNet as BT would not allow a VDSL "upgrade".

Do you mean ADSL1 (a.k.a. G.DMT), because you can get upstream syncs speeds over 1 Mb on ADSL2/2+.

There is no such thing as ADSL1. There is ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ as far as we are concerned.

If you look at the HH6 stats linked to by the OP, and the first two replies (chronologically), the HH6 one alone confirms the other two and my posts.

On the BT Wholesale product ADSL product, ADSL Max, the speeds are as I posted.

An update for everyone... the BT Value Team have been very supportive and offered an explanation of what happened.

My account is displaying that I have BT Faster Broadband which is the VDSL product at 40/2 for which I used to be billed 51.49 but my physical connection is delivering ADSL. They have agreed they have made a mistake but their options are limited.

Due to my distance from the cabinet (3300m) the website is refusing to allow me to upgrade to Superfast Essential (40/10) at £37.99pm because I will presumably pollute their average speeds. Neither will it allow me to select any of the other Superfast products and of course they no longer sell the BT Faster Broadband product. Officially my only option was to stay on 40/2 at £51.49pm or go down to ADSL to obtain a lower price of £32.99.

When I explained I was disappointed that rural customers on 40/2 were being asked to pay more than town customers on 40/10 and particularly that the website was displaying offers to a logged in customer (free Amazon Prime, 40/10 and better monthly prices) then declining to allow me to take those offers with no explanation given, the Value manager agreed to create an offer specifically for me.

I have been told that Superfast Essential (40/10) is not available to me at all but that I would be allowed on to the regular Superfast (80/20) package at the town price. We both agreed that I would not actually receive any better speeds than what I got before all this was messed up (7.0 down, 0.8 up) but he was allowed to offer me a price offer for 18 months which I have accepted. It is technically upselling in that I will not get the average speeds but I am aware of this. The price offered felt fair and was better than what I was currently paying.

I have not been charged any up front fee nor any charge for a new hub. I am being charged the same as a town customer but will be configured to receive whatever my line can actually deliver when the 80/20 product is enabled next week.

Not an ideal situation I know because I really do feel that the Superfast Essential package was a good match for my situation. At least I will be back on VDSL, getting the old speeds I was (reluctantly) used to and being charged a decent chunk less than what I was formerly paying.

This will tide me over until USO or R100 deliver an alternative solution in a couple of years. I have a suspicion it will probably be 4G since rolling out over 3km of fibre to 7 houses is not likely.

Another solution is switch to another supplier

Yes, I know the Hub showed that the line was connecting as ADSL (ADSL Max), I was just pointing out that those aren't the only upload speeds that all ADSL variants offer. I've heard ADSL1 mentioned before, not saying it's correct to use it, and I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum, but I've definitely seen it mentioned.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Jan-19 09:24:57)

That entire post made no sense.

They won't sell you 40/2 and 40/10 but they will sell you 80/20.

What about 55/10?

I see absolutely no reason what so ever that they can't put you on 55/10 if they can put you on 80/20.

I don't think they sell 40/10 any more, it was 40/2 on essentials.

edit: SuperFast fibre essentials (40/2) shows as available to me and will let me order.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 25-Jan-19 09:28:49)

That is someone thinking laterally, and cleverly. On the 80/20 product the input of your single slow line will not make any noticeable difference to the average speed, which is what they are required to advertise.

An excellent outcome for now.

I suggest that at the end of the 18 months you contact Retentions in the usual way and negotiate as good a price as you can, without mentioning the story of your speeds and how you got to this product. The chances are that they won�t look at what speed you are getting, just the current offers for the 80/20 and negotiate to whatever they can within reason and their individual target to keep you.

As well of course as looking at your other options by then, as you say.

That is someone thinking laterally, and cleverly. On the 80/20 product the input of your single slow line will not make any noticeable difference to the average speed, which is what they are required to advertise.

Surely a 7/0.8 connection would hurt the 80/20 average much more than it would 40/2.

Depends on sample size and whether included i.e. rules don't mean all lines have to be included but what is called a representative sample

Also mean and median - they should be using median and a small number of low or high should not shift the value much

Its just a retailer who has a computer says no policy, and this was one way around it.

Because the buttons on the computer would only allow the 80/20 order

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Yes, I know the Hub showed that the line was connecting as ADSL (ADSL Max), I was just pointing out that those aren't the only upload speeds that all ADSL variants offer. I've heard ADSL1 mentioned before, not saying it's correct to use it, and I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum, but I've definitely seen it mentioned.

Why?

That was/is completely irrelevant seeing as my post was a reply to the OP who can only get ADSL Max. I even said so in that reply to him so that anyone who hadn�t noticed or had forgotten the fact wouldn�t waste their and his and anyone�s time doing what you did, apparently deliberately from what you say now.

You know/knew very well I know a lot more than yourself about ADSL2+ anyway, so why tell me or anyone else here about it?

What do you mean by "Why?". Sorry, but I don't understand your post, it doesn't make any sense. The OP can get VDSL2 (FTTC) AFAIK.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Jan-19 10:18:52)

Before your edit completely replaced your original post that this is a reply to, you originally said it was for the information of others, as general information about a different ADSLx product. Clearly not true. Where this unnecessary argument started:-

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Do you mean ADSL1 (a.k.a. G.DMT), because you can get upstream syncs speeds over 1 Mb on ADSL2/2+.

Your realisation of the untruth of your replaced post makes this tantrum of yours quite amusing.

Sorry?! I was just asking you a question, to clarify which ADSL technology you were talking about.

This conversation is going nowhere, and I no longer wish us to keep interfering with the OPs original question. So, moving on...

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Jan-19 10:30:42)

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

What do you mean by "Why?". Sorry, but I don't understand your post, it doesn't make any sense. The OP can get VDSL2 (FTTC) AFAIK.

Ye gods! Stop trolling.

You have now altered every post of your that I have replied to, after I�ve either posted a reply or seen a change whilst previewing my reply.

That is simply dishonest. Stop it. I shall stop arguing here as it is impossible to post anything that makes sense as a reply when your content changes radically afterwards.

Yes we know the OP can get VDSL2. He was doing. That�s what the whole thread was about until you started screwing it up. Particularly with your edits that you have now made.

Do not forget, the staff can see all previous versions of edited posts! It is only ordinary posters you might deceive.