Is there an issue with by Fibre (BT DSL checker attached)?

On another forum, I've been discussing the free upgrade at Sky from Fibre to Fibre max to double your speed.

I currently had Sky Fibre Unlimited which I believe can offer up to 36Mbps? My router is currently connected at Down:24998 Up:4962

And here is my BT DSL checker info:-
https://i.imgur.com/NrQKgUJ.png

Someone at the other forum said there appears to be a problem with my line? And that I should ask about it here?

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Feb-19 15:17:21)

If the checker is to be believed, then yes, looks like summat�s wrong.

The most obvious culprit would be your set up in the property ... could you describe what�s connected to where please ?

Does your Sky modem provide any line statistics?
Could you post them all?

You're line has been banded/capped at 25Mb by the DLM by the looks of that sync figure.

Does this help? - https://i.imgur.com/I1WecW5.png

Many thanks!

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Feb-19 16:13:52)

Well, the line into the house comes to a dedicated dual socket for phone and adsl. The phone plugs into it. And my Sky Q router plugs into it.

This is actually my second Sky Q router, the last was damaged by a lightening hit, and that gave similar speeds to this one.

If this helps - https://i.imgur.com/I1WecW5.png

Has the speed been low ever since that lightning strike? How long ago was that? Or were the speeds low even before it?

I ask because the strike could have caused DLM to band the line at 25Mbs when it should run at 80Mbs (connection speed) from those stats, and DLM doesn't always automatically reset itself.

You have about 3dB spare SNRM so your line should probably sync just above 30Mb but it is capped at 25Mb.

I'd try connecting to the test socket and see if that dramatically increases the reported noise margin in those stats.
They currently show as:
DS1: 9.1 and DS2: 8.9
The line isn't using the D3 band at all. It should be with those estimates on the BT Wholesale checker.

The connection speed will not change when using the test socket as this is capped.

If the test socket increases the noise margin then we could advise further on fixing your wiring.

If it doesn't then you need to contact Sky and report that your line is performing significantly below the estimates and hopefully they'll send an engineer out to see what's what.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 17-Feb-19 00:52:22)

Post deleted by RobertoS

No, I noticed the lightening strike by my speed be halved.

After numerous checks a replacement router was sent out which returned me to normal.

Interesting, in the master socket I get a D3 figure (what ever that means!!??!) - https://i.imgur.com/6s1HWD5.png

If I put the face plat back on and use that, the D3 value returns to 0... eg: - https://i.imgur.com/kSMzbYA.png

I can leave the faceplate off and use the master socket as I don't use the phone connector in that socket?

BTW! Thanks very much for the help!

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Feb-19 12:18:01)

You need to connect to the test socket which is behind the lower part of the master socket.

I would ignore the D3 figure. It was a very high attenuation figure and the noise margin still showed 0.
The noise margin figures actually dropped when using the master socket.

If there's issues with the home wiring then the noise margin figures should shoot up when using the test socket.
If they don't change then there's nothing you yourself can do and you should contact your ISP.

https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/what-is-the-...

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 17-Feb-19 12:24:18)

This is all assuming the BT Wholesale checker is correct...

Can get a good idea of this if you private message the postcode and can compare to what we have for the postcode/cabinet

I believe I've plugged into the "test socket" - This is where I've plugged into behind the face plate - https://i.imgur.com/libhw9T.png

Are you saying plugging into the test socket you didn't see thej figures you'd expect?

That's the test socket yes.
It didn't see any improvement so your home wiring isn't an issue.

Your line is performing considerably below the estimates and you've tried the test socket.

edit: I'd take MrSaffrons advise and PM him your postcode. He'll double check your estimates aren't wildly off.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 17-Feb-19 13:02:40)

Thanks!

So there's no improvement in running direct off the test socket and I may as well put the faceplate back on?

I've PM'd Mr Saffron... Thanks for the help!

PM'd - Many thanks in advance!

So not good news - cabinet you say you are connected to is around 1km away, and neighbours are on one even further away

But does that in itself mean I can't get Sky's double speed free offer? ie: To upgrade me for free from SKy unlimited to Sky Max?

They said the cabinet needs some work before they can do that?

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Feb-19 14:59:01)

1km means VDSL2 speeds in the 20 to 34 range usually

The vast majority of lines are well under 1km from their cabinet

So no double speeds from the Sky offer

Very confusing... So to get significantly higher speeds I'd need to be on a cabinet literally a couple of hunded metres away?

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

But does that in itself mean I can't get Sky's double speed free offer? ie: To upgrade me for free from Sky unlimited to Sky Max?

Sky's don't actually double your speed, they lift the 40Mb product cap up to 80Mb. If your currently getting 25Mb your well under the 40Mb product cap and not limited by it.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftt...

In short yes

So the only way for me to get faster broadband is if they build a new cabinet nearer to me, and I get connected to that?

That or for full fibre to be rolled out to you, or 4G if speeds are good in area

Or you stump up a large amount of cash for Fibre To The Premise On Demand (FTTPoD).

They said the cabinet needs some work before they can do that?

They were being �economical with the truth� then.

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

So the only way for me to get faster broadband is if they build a new cabinet nearer to me, and I get connected to that?

...... or you move house, or seek a different technology i.e. FTTP or Virgin

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

or you move house

You're at the top of my most trusted contributors on here but would anyone honestly move for better broadband I certainly wouldn't.

Most �umbled I�m sure

But I think it is something people should consider. It certainly coloured my last three choices of premises.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

or you move house

You're at the top of my most trusted contributors on here but would anyone honestly move for better broadband I certainly wouldn't.

They should certainly make deeper enquiries about what is available at any house they move to, rather than complain afterwards. A lot seem to forget all about it until too late. Particularly in new builds.

As much as I would kill for FTTP (Hopefully on its way soon) there's not a chance in hell I would leave my house of 40 years for any internet package.

https://imgur.com/5AbMHuN

Totally agree, if I ever moved I would do my research first, but would never move just for better broadband as that would be madness

No FTTP could beat that, hopefully you can have both in the near future.

In reply to a post by dect:

No FTTP could beat that, hopefully you can have both in the near future.

I live in hope.

It was certainly a consideration when I moved although sometimes it doesn't work out. The new build I moved to was showing other properties with estimated 61 Mbps. The reality turned out to be 13 Mbps which several Openreach engineers said was the best it would do.

Anyway fast forward a year and my phone goes dead with 6 Mbps broadband while Openreach were installing a new FTTC cab. Get it fixed and the engineer discovered my connection was on a split pair so switched to a new pair and bingo, a full 40/10.

So, help a noob out here... When I look at these stats - https://i.imgur.com/NrQKgUJ.png

What figures on there are telling me I'm only capable of 25Mbps or there abouts? (Which is what my router is connecting at)

ie: Should I be looking a the "VDSL" or "G.fast" as an indication of my line speed? Or am I missing something?

Thanks...

Your estimates are incorrect.

You're totally out of G.Fast range and the FTTC estimates for your distance to the cabinet should be more in line with the figures MrSaffron quoted you.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 19-Feb-19 12:55:23)

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

What figures on there are telling me I'm only capable of 25Mbps or there abouts? (Which is what my router is connecting at)

There isn't. They say that you should be able to sync at between 58 and 80 Mbps. If you are on a 40/10 product then you should be getting a solid 40.

But those figures are not consistent with being 1km from the cabinet. It's also odd that there is nothing under "observed speeds". Have you been connected for a relatively short time, say less than 2 months?

It seems possible there's a database error, and those stats are for a completely different property.

Did you search by phone number, or use the Address Checker option? Try using the other one, and see how different the results are.

Also, talk to Sky about what line speed you should be able to achieve. If they say you should be able to achieve 60-80M, then get them to commit to it. Then if you're only getting 25M, they should send out an engineer (at their expense) to fix it.

Alternatively, you could find an ISP to sell you G.fast service (I don't think Sky do that yet). But if you are really 1km from the cabinet, then G.fast availability is definitely a database error; you could go on a big wild goose chase to finally find you can't have it.

According to My Saffron we're less than 1km from the cabinet.

I went to the dsl checker via address. Trying our telno didn't work. We got a new number about a year ago after a mix up with Sky and BT meant a new number.

If I use the bt checker for our address it reflects the correct cabinet number 12, and if I try our neighbours it reflects theirs, cabinet number 1 (a lot further away).

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

According to My Saffron we're less than 1km from the cabinet.

Actually he said "cabinet you say you are connected to is around 1km away"

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

If I use the bt checker for our address it reflects the correct cabinet number 12, and if I try our neighbours it reflects theirs, cabinet number 1 (a lot further away).

By "correct" cabinet number 12, do you mean this is the one that the wholesale checker says you are connected to? (Or do you have some other way of knowing?)

*If* you are on cabinet 12, and *if* that's around 1km away from you, then 25-30M is the maximum speed to expect. It's simply a database error if it says you can get 60-80M and G.fast.

(Of course, if the database is wrong for the speed of your line, it could also be wrong as to which cabinet you are connected to. Maybe you are actually on the same one as your neighbours).

You may be able to find cabinet 12 by wandering around and looking for a green box with "12" painted in white. To get a rough idea of where it is, go to https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm and lookup your locality, then "all exchanges", "all fibre cabinets", and click on your cabinet's postcode. That will show you a marker at the centre of the postcode area containing the cabinet - not where the cabinet itself is, but it is a starting point for searching.

Or you can go back, click on the cabinet *name* instead, and it will show a list of postcodes which are served by that cabinet, with a green dot marking the centre of each postcode. If there's an obvious cluster of green dots, the cabinet is probably somewhere in the middle.

Streetview can also help to save your legs

I think the cabinet 12 may be wrong, as believe all premises in postcode are connected to cabinet 1

This may explain the checker error

Have sent in a private message the expected locations for cab 12 and definite location of cab 1

Cabinet 12 is pretty much at 1km radius away, so allow for some wandering of cables across roads and might be 1100m or 1200metres

Cabinet 1 is another 700m further away

On the CodeLook and in centre, while that would give a rough clue , in this case cab 12 is on the southern end of the cab area and cabinet 1 is also. Hence why thinkbroadband has its own cabinet location database

This thread seems to be confusing two issues. One, your actual connection speed, and the other the BT Wholesale estimates for your address. (By the way, the table linked here:-

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

So, help a noob out here... When I look at these stats - https://i.imgur.com/NrQKgUJ.png

are not stats. They are estimates from BT Wholesale).

The connection speeds you give in your OP and the stats linked to here ...

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

If this helps - https://i.imgur.com/I1WecW5.png

� suggest to me there is or has been a serious problem on the line. They strongly suggest to be that DLM has banded the line.

When posting links to the BTW estimates it helps a lot if you include the line above the table, that specifies the exchange and cabinet. But blank out the address. (Note that Sky phone numbers are not recognised by BT Wholesale which is why yours doesn't give a result). Are you saying your post to the table is from Cabinet 12, and are you saying that cabinet is very close to you?

Coming back to your current connection speed I didn't understand this reply to my earlier question about when the speed dropped to this 24998kbps:-

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

No, I noticed the lightening strike by my speed be halved.

After numerous checks a replacement router was sent out which returned me to normal.

Are you saying that the lightning strike halved your speed to more like 12.5Mbps and the replacement router restored it to the 24998kbps, or are you saying the strike caused the drop to 24998 and the replacement restored it to some higher speed (the normal) which has now disappeared?

In summary, as john83 said early Sunday morning, your line is capped at 25Mbps and Sky need to get DLM reset to get that cap removed. The cabinet question would then remain, until you clarify what cabinet number the estimate shows and if you know its location. Given the exchange and cabinet number several people here will know roughly where it is.

If, as it seems, the cabinet is 1.1km - 1.9km away, laws of physics say it's unlikely to go much higher than 25M, so DLM reset might not give much improvement and may reduce stability.

There's an old VDSL distance chart here:
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/chart-...

Things may be a little better these days with Huawei cabs and 3dB SNR target, but it gives a rough idea.

I know I am on Cabinet 12. Confirmed by BT and Sky due to a big debacle last year

Well, if I've done this right, it estimates I'm about 1.5km from Cabinet 12? But it really doesn't seem that far seeing where it is? - https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=3...

My guess would be about 1km or less...

No, cabinet 12 is right.

All my street is connected to cabinet 1. MANY years ago I had a second line added to the house, which I assume they plumbed in from Cabinet 12. Then years later, I reverted back to one line. At this point I suspect they disconnect me from Cabinet 1 and left me on Cabinet 12.

HOWEVER, BT's records were wrong, showing I was on Cabinet 1. So last year when they can to move me from ADSL to Fibre I lost my entire line and tel number when they did the necessary work on Cabinet 1, instead of 12.

They had to give me a new telno and then go and work on Cabinet 12 to get me up again!

I was down for nearly a month! But at least got a years free telephone and internet out of it...


All my neighbours get about 8-11Mbps, even on those Fibre. I get 25Mbps.

First of all, apologies if there's confusion. It's more than likely simply me not being familiar with the subject.

On to your points/questions

Yes I am on "Cabinet 12" and from links other folks have given me that appears to be "offically" 1.5km away. Personally I think it's about 1km or less (along the roads).

As others have pointed out, I'm seemingly on the highest speed (about 25Mbps) I should expect at that sort of distance? - https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/wp-content/...


As regards the lightening strike... When it occured I noticed my broadband speed was low. After much messing about and putting things in master sockets, Sky sent me a new router and my speed returned back up to what I have now, and had before. About 25-27Mbps.


Ultimately what's confusing me is some people are suggesting 25Mbps is the limit of the line (given the distance from Cabinet 12) and the most I can get. While others are suggesting it's an imposed cap. ie "your line is capped at 25Mbps".

^ This is what's confusing me.

Explains the records issue that is showing up in some places then...

Still cab 12 is 1km away and thus speeds are in line with the physics

The 1km is as crow flies, and road has only a slight wiggle so 1.1 to 1.2km real world possible, so long as this is cab 12.

A DLM reset may push speeds up, the cabinet is Huawei based which may help push a bit

Measuring on Google Maps gives 1.1km using walking distance between two locatoins

Using Codelook for distance to cabinet is more approximate, to get a better idea it needs the work we've put in over 7 years to get lat/lng for the cabinets

In reply to a post by busterboy:

As much as I would kill for FTTP (Hopefully on its way soon) there's not a chance in hell I would leave my house of 40 years for any internet package.

https://imgur.com/5AbMHuN

Or wait for 5G Mobile Broadband with unlimited data?

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

They had to give me a new telno and then go and work on Cabinet 12 to get me up again!

I was down for nearly a month!

Sounds bizarre that you had to have a new telephone number just because the routing records were wrong, probably badly managed by Sky\Openreach.

Edited by deleted (Tue 19-Feb-19 17:04:04)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftt...

In short yes

Very odd as your site say below:

200m 65 Mbps 18 Mbps 20%
300m 45 Mbps 17 Mbps 30%

My VDSL stat on the modem is full 80 Mbps with downstream SNR of 6dB and my GEA test stated approx 257m away from the cabinet. Does this mean GEA test of line length is incorrect?

Edited by adslmax (Tue 19-Feb-19 17:10:09)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

They had to give me a new telno and then go and work on Cabinet 12 to get me up again!

I was down for nearly a month!

Sounds bizarre that you had to have a new telephone number just because the routing records were wrong, probably badly managed by Sky\Openreach.

Oh it was epic!

So BT had their records wrong as to what cabinet I was in.

Sky told BT to upgrade my ADSL to Fibre and BT went out to the wrong cabinet, which took us offline.

Sky phoned us to tell us what was happened and the only way they could get BT to go out again to resolve the issue was to raise a cancellation request and then a new request.

BUT, what this actually meant, was not just cancelling the Fibre upgrade request, but cancelling our ENTIRE F****** PHONE LINE!

We only found out this after they'd actioned it and BT had done it!

So it took us a month to get reactivated! We lost our original telno and everything!

In reply to a post by adslmax:

My VDSL stat on the modem is full 80 Mbps with downstream SNR of 6dB and my GEA test stated approx 257m away from the cabinet. Does this mean GEA test of line length is incorrect?

Probably not. I'd say those figures err on the safe/conservative side - the majority of users at those distances will get *at least* those speeds. If your copper is good, you may get more.

Here's another graph:
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/chart-...

It's still a little on the conservative side, but suggests you are likely not to see drop-off until 200-250m.

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

BUT, what this actually meant, was not just cancelling the Fibre upgrade request, but cancelling our ENTIRE F****** PHONE LINE!

We only found out this after they'd actioned it and BT had done it!

Wow so it was a full cease and re-provide, there are a lot of easier/quicker ways they probably could have done it.

Oh no I am panicking we under estimated the speeds for someone!!!

I guess I need to make the paragraph below the table into a much larger font and add bold.
The distance estimates are designed so that we expect the vast majority to exceed these guideline figures, and for individuals factors outside your control such as whether the Openreach VDSL2 cabinet is ECI or Huawei based will have an impact. Additionally so will the parameters set by the Dynamic Line Management system and whether options like G.INP, lower target noise margins are vectoring are being used on your line.

In short if you are getting below what the table suggests something is wrong, if you are above then yippee

NOTE: We could split into two tables for ECI and Huawei cabinets but then adding more words to a page where people are not already reading what is written on it.

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

I know I am on Cabinet 12. Confirmed by BT and Sky due to a big debacle last year

Well, if I've done this right, it estimates I'm about 1.5km from Cabinet 12? But it really doesn't seem that far seeing where it is? - https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=3...

My guess would be about 1km or less...

Cabinet 12 is here: https://goo.gl/maps/MyVT6baNu542

Paul

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

BUT, what this actually meant, was not just cancelling the Fibre upgrade request, but cancelling our ENTIRE F****** PHONE LINE!

We only found out this after they'd actioned it and BT had done it!

Wow so it was a full cease and re-provide, there are a lot of easier/quicker ways they probably could have done it.

Yep! It was all a bit of a double face palm!

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by NeilFawcett:

I know I am on Cabinet 12. Confirmed by BT and Sky due to a big debacle last year

Well, if I've done this right, it estimates I'm about 1.5km from Cabinet 12? But it really doesn't seem that far seeing where it is? - https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=3...

My guess would be about 1km or less...

Cabinet 12 is here: https://goo.gl/maps/MyVT6baNu542

Paul

That's great... Thanks