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Standard User morgard
(newbie) Tue 05-Mar-19 19:42:08
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BTnet and DrayTek router help


[link to this post]
 
Hi everyone,

I’ve not visited these forums before, but they seem extensive, very active, and full of helpful people. I hope that I’m posting in the right place, but if not, please can someone direct me to a more appropriate place for help with this – thanks.

I’m asking for help here since I (and the small business I’m helping) have been perhaps caught out by the sales people at BT Local Business regarding the advantages of a BTnet dedicated line, without us (and probably even them) being aware of the complexities of the actual set-up. We’ve been running off of a standard BT Business Hub for some months whilst other stuff has been going on, but now we need to switch across to the BTnet line.

Anyway, the question, as simply as I can put it: How do I set up a new DrayTek Vigor 2862ac router/firewall with a new BTnet fixed-IP-address line, instead of the BT-supplied Cisco 4321 router? The ONLY info provided by BT for this was:

IPV4 Network Address : xxx.xxx.xxx.128
IPV4 Network Mask : 255.255.255.248
IPV4 BTnet NTE Router LAN Address : xxx.xxx.xxx.129
DSN servers: ns3.bt.net – 194.72.6.57, ns4.bt.net – 194.73.82.242

Beyond this, no instructions, manuals, web links, nothing. I’m not expecting BT to provide me with DrayTek info, but some info for configuring the Cisco router would have been nice – although I am (now!) well aware that this is an enterprise device, so would normally be set up by a network specialist. I was told that the Cisco router, as well as being overly-complex for our rather simple requirements (4 computers for admin staff, 2 printers, CCTV, card payment machines for use in a downstairs restaurant, BT CloudVoice system, etc.), also comes WITHOUT a firewall, so was therefore advised to source a DrayTek instead as a reasonably-priced but powerful (and not-too-complex!) alternative to the Cisco device.

To be clear here, I am not an IT novice. (To give you an idea of my knowledge level, if anyone here ever listens to the weekly Security Now podcast with Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte, I understand most of it!) I’ve spent many years helping residential and small business people with computer-related issues, and know a fair bit about small networks, but this sort of set-up is outside of my normal experience. I guess my question here is can I set this up myself relatively easily and securely, without calling in the services of a networking expert – for which there is no budget? It is already too late to backtrack on the BTnet order (5-year contracts signed, etc.), so any guidance at all here would be much appreciated.

It was always too much to expect a live connection without doing any configuring, as would be the case in a house or small business with ADSL/VDSL/cable with a dynamically-assigned-by-the-ISP IP address. I’ve tried, out of interest, plugging the DrayTek into the Cisco router (not a solution anyway, because the Cisco box is going to be returned soon to BT) which is in turn plugged into the BT-supplied ADVA box on the wall, and also plugging the DrayTek directly into the ADVA box, neither of which gave a live connection, of course. The BTnet line has a fixed IP address, and I know that settings have to be manually entered into whatever networking device(s) are to be used our end.

So, is anyone here able to answer a few questions about configuring the DrayTek? i.e. which settings to put where. I’ve updated the firmware in the DrayTek to the latest, and located the WAN -> Internet Access -> WAN 2 -> ‘Static or Dynamic IP’ page, which I’m sure is the right page, but it’s not clear to me what to put where. I’m guessing that ‘Obtain an IP address automatically’ is not correct! I’ve already tried putting the above 2 IP addresses and subnet mask into the ‘Specify an IP address’ IP Address / Subnet Mask / Gateway IP Address fields (not sure which way wound to put the IP addresses), and entered the 2 DNS server addresses BT specify, but no connection. Am I on the right track here? Perhaps I need to change some of the other settings on this page, which are:

WAN Connection Detection (currently Mode = ARP Detect)
MTU (currently = 1492)
Keep WAN Connection (currently ‘Enable PING to keep alive’ is not enabled)
TTL (currently ‘Change the TTL value’ is ticked)
RIP Routing (currently not ticked)
Bridge Mode (currently neither ‘Enable Bridge Mode’ nor ‘Enable Full Bridge Mode’ are ticked)
MAC Address (currently = Default MAC Address)

Apologies for the length of this post. I’m hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction, so many thanks in advance.


Steve.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Mar-19 21:15:23
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
So, how is the new service being delivered ?

ADSL, VDSL, FTTP, EFM ... ?

Standard User morgard
(newbie) Tue 05-Mar-19 21:31:47
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your reply, Zarjaz.

Not sure of the answer to that. On the confirmation emails, BT list the service as:

Product: BTNet 21CN HE Fibre - 100mb

Is that helpful?


Steve.


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Mar-19 22:07:08
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
So it sounds like a bespoke fibre based product.

Surely BT provided equipment which has the fibre terminating into, this would then have, at a guess, an Ethernet port as an out put ...

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Tue 05-Mar-19 22:28:33
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like a leased line service. The Cisco could be a managed router, which is part of the service. If that's the case, then you're not supposed to remove it. They may be remotely monitoring it to check the line.

also comes WITHOUT a firewall, so was therefore advised to source a DrayTek instead


Advised by whom? It's not great advice to get rid of the router in a managed service. (And if you are happy to take their advice, then you can also ask them how to replace the router)

But there is a simple answer. You can plug your new firewall/router into the LAN port of the Cisco and use one of the public IP addresses they have given you: that is, configure an IP between xxx.xxx.xxx.130 and xxx.xxx.xxx.134 as the firewall's WAN IP, and point its default gateway at xxx.xxx.xxx.129. You then use private IPs behind the firewall and let it NAT.
Standard User andew
(member) Tue 05-Mar-19 22:28:40
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The last time i setup one of these connections was about a year ago. We were told the cisco router had to be connected as its a managed service. We ended up connecting a network lead from the cisco to the WAN2 port on the draytek, ( it would appear that the cisco is just a very expensive bridge).

On the draytek we configured the internet connection using the WAN2 connection using the static/dynamic ip option and specified the ip address, subnet mast, gateway, dns addresses and MTU stated in an email. After a restart the connection came up straight away.

Hope that helps

Andrew
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 06-Mar-19 08:55:04
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: andew] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andew:
it would appear that the cisco is just a very expensive bridge


To be accurate, the Cisco is a very expensive router. It has a WAN interface which goes onto the leased line, and a block of IP addresses on the LAN side, and it forwards IP datagrams between the two. If you do a traceroute you'll see the Cisco as an IP hop.

The way you describe connecting the Draytek is correct.

In this business service, they're getting a block of 8 IP addresses routed to them, although only 5 are usable by the customer (in this cases, addresses .130 to .134 inclusive)

That means five separate devices can be connected each with full IP connectivity. That could be one firewall plus four servers outside the firewall; or it could be five separate firewalls, useful if there are several companies in the building which are sharing the same leased line.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 06-Mar-19 09:20:48
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
The normal would be to leave the managed device in place, then connect an Ethernet router (e.g. the Draytek) and set up the WAN port to use one of the static IP addresses and then use the NAT and firewall features of the Draytek for the day to day office stuff.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User morgard
(newbie) Wed 06-Mar-19 17:42:05
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi Zarjaz,

I don't believe there's anything special about this, it's just a standard BTnet installation as far as I know. As candlerb says in the next post after yours, 'leased line service' is an expression that I remember hearing on more than one occasion from the sales people.

To be clear here, BT and OpenReach provided the following during the installation:
- Cabling into the building, that goes into...
- A box on the wall labelled 'ADVA'.
- The Cisco router, and a network cable back to the ADVA box.

Beyond those physical components, and the tech details I listed above, nothing. I was advised by a 'tech' person in BT Local Business to REPLACE the Cisco router with a more standard one that I can manage easily myself, and DrayTek was recommended. I thought I could more easily handle a DrayTek, which has an integrated firewall, and is more like what I'm used to.

Oh, and yes, there's an ethernet port on both the ADVA and Cisco box that I can plug the DrayTek into. It's not the plugging-in I need help with, it's the configuring.
Standard User morgard
(newbie) Wed 06-Mar-19 18:02:57
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Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi candlerb,

The advice I've been receiving has been from BT Local Business (a sales person / account manager, and one of her 'techie' colleagues). I have a feeling that I should have come to this forum first before following their advice, but it's a little late, I think.

Not fully understanding this set-up, I expressed concern after I was told that the Cisco box came without a firewall. I was told that I could/should buy a standalone firewall, but this is only a small business, and I know that a business firewall box can cost a lot of money, particularly in ongoing subscription costs. They advised me instead to REPLACE the Cisco router with a DrayTek router (with integrated firewall), which is therefore the route I have headed. In fact, we've converted this line to 'Wires only', to achieve this. At no point was I told that I could simply plug a device like this DrayTek into the Cisco box, and set it up.

So, I believe that I now MUST remove the Cisco box from this set-up (although I still have it in place for now), and put the DrayTek in its place.

Is this possible to do securely, and am I on the right lines with my original post?

Oh, and I'm certain that if we're using our own equipment, then BT won't help with this at all. You see my predicament!

Depending on responses to this message, I might ask questions about what settings go where next, WITHOUT the Cisco - thanks.


Steve.
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