General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Wed 06-Mar-19 19:47:37
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that port on the ADVA is the one that the cable from the Cisco has been plugged into. I've been unplugging the end of this cable from the Cisco router, and instead plugging it into the DrayTek for testing.


Leave the Cisco connected - BT expect it as it's a managed router as part of the service - remove it and good luck getting any support at all.

Thanks for the link, which I've looked at. I've never needed to use MultiNAT before, although that page gives a good overview. However, I'm wondering if this is overkill for our needs.


You don't need Multi-NAT (personally I'd never have bought a Draytek as they're overpriced, counter-intuitive junk IMHO) but anyhow, it will work with it.

This is a small business, with no fancy equipment, no need for hosting web servers, nothing beyond the basics. As I see it, we only actually need just one IP address anyway, and for everything to sit safely (via NAT) behind the DrayTek on that.


And that's fine - out of the box, the DrayTek just needs the WAN interface configuring - if the cisco is configured how I expect - make the DrayTek WAN as per my other post and I suspect you'll be done. And frankly, I doubt you needed a BTnet line - but it's a bit late now.

For my understanding, am I right in thinking that the 2 IP addresses and 255.255.255.248 subnet mask I listed earlier mean we've been allocated 8 IP addresses:

xxx.xxx.xxx.128, xxx.xxx.xxx.129, xxx.xxx.xxx.130, xxx.xxx.xxx.131, xxx.xxx.xxx.132, xxx.xxx.xxx.133, xxx.xxx.xxx.134, xxx.xxx.xxx.135.


Correct - 128 is the network address, 129 is the Cisco, so use 130 for the DrayTek for ease (but it could be any remaining one except the last one which is Broadcast)
Standard User morgard
(newbie) Wed 06-Mar-19 20:08:45
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
Hi therioman, and everyone else that has replied. Thank you, this is all very helpful.

I DEFINITELY don't want to be left in a situation where BT will not assist when issues arise. The more I read of all your messages, the more sure I am that I, and the business owner, have been pushed along this more expensive BTnet route, when a cheaper, simpler set-up would have been best. It's too late to go back, though, so I'm sure we're stuck with this BTnet service, one way or the other.

The consensus here is clearly that I need to use the Cisco router WITH the DrayTek that I have. As I mentioned previously, I was led along the route (clearly by BT Local Business people that don't really understand any of this) of changing this to a 'Wires only' (slightly cheaper) service, meaning that the Cisco router MUST be returned to BT. So tomorrow, I will investigate if it is possible to reverse this decision, so that we go back to the original standard BTnet package, INCLUDING the Cisco router, and then proceed along the lines that several of you here have explained with configuring the DrayTek WITH the Cisco.

If I get stuck with any of this, I may be back.

Again, many thanks to you all for your help, I very much appreciate it.


Steve.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Wed 06-Mar-19 20:50:38
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by morgard:
I DEFINITELY don't want to be left in a situation where BT will not assist when issues arise. The more I read of all your messages, the more sure I am that I, and the business owner, have been pushed along this more expensive BTnet route, when a cheaper, simpler set-up would have been best. It's too late to go back, though, so I'm sure we're stuck with this BTnet service, one way or the other.


You might have a route via mis-selling if you fancy fighting it (we are going to be talking hundreds per month - so you should perhaps take legal advice) - I have considerable experience of seeing the tactics of BT Local Business in hard selling and mis-selling - but as always, few are prepared to fight them, but that's an aside.

The consensus here is clearly that I need to use the Cisco router WITH the DrayTek that I have.


...if it's provided as part of it, they'll use it as an excuse not to support you if you do not...

BUT...

As I mentioned previously, I was led along the route (clearly by BT Local Business people that don't really understand any of this) of changing this to a 'Wires only' (slightly cheaper) service, meaning that the Cisco router MUST be returned to BT.


If you can save a few quid you do not NEED that Cisco - at all. It is entirely possible to configure your service without one - for what it's worth I have Openreach provided Fibre Ethernet services - eg a Leased Line, just not one from BT, and for the 100 Meg lines I have the same Avada equipment - you'd then connect the Draytek to it, give it the appropriate IP addresses and gateways and you'll be fine.

There does need to be a change because your gateway address (without the Cisco) would need to be an interface at the other end of your BTnet line - so you'd need them to change your setup (whether in BTnet world that means giving you a new range or they can reconfigure that one I have no idea - it's down to how they do things) - but from a "can it be done" perspective - YES - absolutely.

You almost certainly CANNOT bypass the Cisco as it stands without the service being reconfigured to work differently (again this ultimately depends what configuration they put in).

If you happen to be in Devon/Cornwall area and the BT Local Business lot you're dealing with are Coastal Communications then you have all of my sympathy.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 06-Mar-19 21:26:28
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by morgard:
For my understanding, am I right in thinking that the 2 IP addresses and 255.255.255.248 subnet mask I listed earlier mean we've been allocated 8 IP addresses:

xxx.xxx.xxx.128, xxx.xxx.xxx.129, xxx.xxx.xxx.130, xxx.xxx.xxx.131, xxx.xxx.xxx.132, xxx.xxx.xxx.133, xxx.xxx.xxx.134, xxx.xxx.xxx.135.


Right so far, but...

In reply to a post by morgard:
If I'm correct so far, then for the set-up WITH the Cisco, would xxx.xxx.xxx.128 have been our 'main' address


No. Due to the way IP works:

* the first address (.128) is unusable. (It's the network address)
* the next address (.129) is usable, but BT have already given it to to the Cisco router.
* the next five addresses (.130 to .134) are usable by you.
* the last address (.135) is unusable. (It's the broadcast address)

So the Draytek can be configured with any of .130 to .134, and its default gateway needs to point to .129.
Standard User Snake
(experienced) Wed 06-Mar-19 21:28:36
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
Leave the Cisco connected, assuming it is connected via an SFP

Connect your Draytek to the Cisco via RJ45 cable in one of the GE00/01 ports.

Then connect to you Draytek on the WAN2 (P5)

configure you Draytek with the network settings you were given (under WAN goto static/Dynamic IP)

Use these in the specify address:

IPV4 Network Address : xxx.xxx.xxx.128
IPV4 Network Mask : 255.255.255.248


This is your gateway
IPV4 BTnet NTE Router LAN Address : xxx.xxx.xxx.129
DNS servers: ns3.bt.net 194.72.6.57, ns4.bt.net 194.73.82.242


You should be good to go.

The cisco is managed by BT and you dont need to worry about it. The Internet is being terminated on your draytek which is acting as your firewall.

Hope this helps.

Cerberus FTTPoD
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 06-Mar-19 21:37:49
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: Snake] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Snake:
Use these in the specify address:

IPV4 Network Address : xxx.xxx.xxx.128 <<<<
IPV4 Network Mask : 255.255.255.248


>>>> That won't work. xxx.xxx.xxx.130 will work.
Standard User Snake
(experienced) Wed 06-Mar-19 22:25:53
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Sorry that was correct,

I quickly looked at draytek live demo

http://eu.draytek.com:12862/

Cerberus FTTPoD
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 07-Mar-19 08:18:03
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: morgard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by morgard:
we've converted this line to 'Wires only', to achieve this.


I apologise - I missed that part somehow.

With a wires-only service, BT will have to tell you how to configure the WAN port of your firewall. Normally they will give you a different IP address, netmask and default gateway. The netmask is likely to be 255.255.255.252.

Then the other block of IP addresses is available for use behind your firewall, should you so choose. You could put these on a separate "DMZ" network behind your firewall. But if you have no servers that want to receive incoming connections from the Internet, then you won't need this.

It's *possible* that they re-used the original LAN block of 8 IPs for the WAN link, but I would be surprised.

The end point is: you're now paying hundreds of pounds a month for a very expensive service. The very least BT can do for you is tell you exactly what IP address, netmask and gateway to configure on your firewall's WAN interface.

Regards,

Brian.
Standard User morgard
(newbie) Thu 07-Mar-19 20:33:28
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
It's already been several months of wranglings, and I very much doubt the business owner wants any more - he just wants it all working now, and for us to move on. Besides, the BT Local Business team assure us that the ultimate price should be no more per month than a non-BTnet alternative, since I've kept emails sent during the set-up process, and that's what we were 'promised'. wink It remains to be seen, though.

I take your points, thank you. I'm going to push for getting back to a NON-wires-only set-up, so that I can keep things simple and as most people will have it WITH the BT-supplied Cisco router, and at least stand SOME chance of support from BT if anything goes wrong.

By the way, we're in the the west side of Greater London. Sorry to hear that there are similar problems elsewhere, especially if you've had to spend as much wasted time as I have talking to all of these people at BTLB!


Steve.
Standard User morgard
(newbie) Thu 07-Mar-19 20:36:32
Print Post

Re: BTnet and DrayTek router help


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks snake and candlerb, very informative.

Now I just have to wait for my contact in BTLB, the 'complaints' man and the only one who I can talk to about this, to return from an unexpected holiday.

Sigh...
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to