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Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 17-Mar-19 17:03:38
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FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[link to this post]
 
Not sure if this is the right thing to do, but thought i would start the Part 4.

Links to previous..

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4595298-ftt...

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4604719-re-...

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4612934-ftt...
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 17-Mar-19 17:04:29
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
How do i find out which premises have been passed for me to approach them to see if they want to contribute to create a linked order?
Standard User ggremlin
(experienced) Sun 17-Mar-19 18:22:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
How do i find out which premises have been passed for me to approach them to see if they want to contribute to create a linked order?
one of the bt checkers was showing the distribution point id, but I can't find it at the moment.
however, I did also find that mouselike makes this information available (as well as accurately placing the cabinet on the maps)

https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...


yes you need to check all the local addresses to get the info

or if its off a telegraph pole, just look at the wires!


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Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 17-Mar-19 18:38:06
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Ours are all underground from the cab.

Just thinking it through, Iím sure itís all our neighbours as including us, itís 4 properties in a row, and it seems we are all fed from the same chamber.

Purely guesswork though.

I might call Cerebus and see how much info they are willing to pass over.
Standard User ggremlin
(experienced) Sun 17-Mar-19 19:05:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Ours are all underground from the cab.

Just thinking it through, Iím sure itís all our neighbours as including us, itís 4 properties in a row, and it seems we are all fed from the same chamber.

Purely guesswork though.

I might call Cerebus and see how much info they are willing to pass over.

as I said above, the mouselike link displays the copper dp id. so try each of the addresses, and a few others near by.

the info it lists
(for a random pub in holborn, london)
https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...
PCP: P1
DP: 1050
Exchange: Holborn
Exchange OLO code: CLHOL
PCP Status: enabledarea
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sun 17-Mar-19 19:40:11
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ggremlin:
one of the bt checkers was showing the distribution point id, but I can't find it at the moment.


It's the main fibre "when and where" page, but the result is hidden and you need to extract it using developer tools. More info in this thread, with step-by-step guide here.

Note: using this for myself and neighbours, I find 14 properties on the same DP, all down one side of my road. This was also the number of "properties passed" I got for my desktop quote.

However, when I got my final FTTPoD survey, it said only 3 properties passed - myself and two neighbours. I believe these are properties sharing the same pavement chamber, as there's one every 2 or 3 properties.

So it's not necessarily the case that all the properties sharing the same copper DP will be activated for fibre.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 17-Mar-19 19:42:21
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Ah sorry, misunderstood!

Just tried my postcode and house number and i get..

"Down for the moment due to BT API changes. Try again tomorrow."

However, if i put in my immediate neighbour, his works.

If i try my other neighbour, its gives this instead of mapping..

"Google Maps Platform rejected your request. This IP, site or mobile application is not authorized to use this API key. Request received from IP address 209.93.105.216, with referer: https://www.google.com/"

Edited by Alucidnation (Sun 17-Mar-19 19:43:33)

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 17-Mar-19 19:49:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I have tried the variuos links you have supplied, but the links from those, i dont think are the same anymore.

On the 'When and Where' page, there is not anywhere to enter phone number etc.
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Sun 17-Mar-19 20:00:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Looks like my installation will be completing soon now. Latest update is that the external build has been complete and just waiting for test results of the CBT and splitter

I just checked the dsl checker and my address is now showing: FTTP on Demaind | 1000 (Downstream) | 220 (Upstream) | Avaliable!

Next week or 2 hopefully and done.

G

Edited by 1nfern0 (Sun 17-Mar-19 20:07:36)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 18-Mar-19 06:41:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
On the 'When and Where' page, there is not anywhere to enter phone number etc.


It Works For Meô (Chrome / macOS). However it's very Javascript-heavy, so if you have any sort of Javascript blockers, cookie blockers or maybe even ad filters it may not work.

Above the box "Fibre Journey" it starts with a "I'm not a robot" recaptcha. When you click on this, it reveals the box to enter a postcode or phone number.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Mar-19 08:36:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Pretty stupid for openreach to have that added on their site "I'm not a robot" recaptcha.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 18-Mar-19 12:04:27
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
I presume it was in response to people writing scripted frontends smile
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Mon 18-Mar-19 20:06:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Ah yes, running ad blocker.

Anyway, I have asked Cerebus if they can tell me the 'premises passed' so that i can approach them to see if they would like to share the costs.

So far, i had a guess and spoke to my direct neighbour, and he was very interested so that's 50% of the true instal cost covered.

laugh

But how does it work?

I understand that if i went it alone, i would be paying the £100/mnth plus for the first year, and can then jump to another provider.

But does everyone who does sign up to get connected to 'my' fibre have to do the same for the first twelve months?
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Mon 18-Mar-19 20:28:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
If your neighbours link their orders with you they may quality for the £500 voucher but they will be liable for 12 months payment of £120pm. It is cheaper for them to just order native FTTP once yours goes live so you would need an informal agreement for them to contribute to your install costs.

The linked order concept only really works where there are multiple businesses who can pool their £2,500 vouchers to reduce the install costs.

Edited by brookheather (Mon 18-Mar-19 20:30:25)

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Mon 18-Mar-19 20:42:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Ah ok thanks, i think i get it.

If my Install cost was £5k, i could split that into three so we all pay a third.

I would sign up for the 120/month, but they could sign up for a 'standard' tariff of their choosing from a provider of their choosing, ultimately making it cheaper for them in the long run?
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 18-Mar-19 21:56:33
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
I would sign up for the 120/month, but they could sign up for a 'standard' tariff of their choosing from a provider of their choosing


Yes - including various cashback deals out there.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Mon 18-Mar-19 22:08:10
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Great stuff, thanks.

I don't mind paying a bit more monthly, if they are happy to split the install costs!

I'll keep this up to date.


smile
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Mon 18-Mar-19 22:57:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Latest news for my order...

An engineer was here today, outside where the jointing team originally was doing work as the problem was apparently there. He was here for quite a while and was quite chatty. I believe he was the precision testing officer as he was asked originally to go to the exchange and appeared to be called off from a different job, he didn't believe the problem was at the exchange and originally wasn't supposed to come here (so good thing he did). He wasn't happy with the way they did the work outside, messy or something. He apparently goes around cleaning up messed up jobs a lot these days.

So, fingers crossed the problem is cleared and the order can now go ahead this week!

Edited by Ixel (Mon 18-Mar-19 22:57:37)

Standard User rman
(learned) Tue 19-Mar-19 10:07:10
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Did he say he had fixed the issue at this visit?

I had someone pop by yesterday to rope under the drive, but it has already been done months ago. Same guy is due back in 2 days to install the ONT and go live!

PfSense is running and configured with my fttc connection, ready for the fttp switch over smile
Standard User drsox
(member) Tue 19-Mar-19 20:05:49
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
I presume it was in response to people writing scripted frontends smile

If eyes can see it, scripts can retrieve it. Same problem with DVD/BluRay copy protection.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 19-Mar-19 22:13:23
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Well he was busy working on it at the time, all I know from Cerberus today is that the results were being reviewed this morning (of testing). I've not had another update yet, so I'd assume that he did fix it but beyond that I don't know.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 08:12:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
I would sign up for the 120/month, but they could sign up for a 'standard' tariff of their choosing from a provider of their choosing


Yes - including various cashback deals out there.


Further to this, i spoke to someone at Cerebus today and they said this was not possible.

If i went it alone, any neighbours could not jump onto my connection and use standard FTTP.

Anyone that wanted FTTPoD in the future would have to go through the same process as i am now with the survey etc.


Also, has anyone had any luck with the vouchers?

Did you know what values you were awarded?

Edited by Alucidnation (Wed 20-Mar-19 08:24:20)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Mar-19 08:42:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
I would sign up for the 120/month, but they could sign up for a 'standard' tariff of their choosing from a provider of their choosing


Yes - including various cashback deals out there.


Further to this, i spoke to someone at Cerebus today and they said this was not possible.

If i went it alone, any neighbours could not jump onto my connection and use standard FTTP.

Anyone that wanted FTTPoD in the future would have to go through the same process as i am now with the survey etc.


Also, has anyone had any luck with the vouchers?

Did you know what values you were awarded?


No-one can "jump" onto your FTTPoD connection, maybe Cerberus thought you meant sharing your connection with others? Under the current FTTPoD scheme, others on the same the fibre distribution point (DP) should be able to order 'native' FTTP independently once the property which orders FTTPoD is live. However I'm not sure if Openreach give any guarantees beforehand wrt which properties will be getting 'native' FTTP as a result of the FTTPoD order.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User dect
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 08:48:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
If you have a number of neighbours who would like FTTP as well why not consider a Community Fibre Partnership. BT make a contribution towards the installation and once installed you pay native prices.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 08:51:37
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


Yes - including various cashback deals out there.


Further to this, i spoke to someone at Cerebus today and they said this was not possible.

If i went it alone, any neighbours could not jump onto my connection and use standard FTTP.

Anyone that wanted FTTPoD in the future would have to go through the same process as i am now with the survey etc.


Also, has anyone had any luck with the vouchers?

Did you know what values you were awarded?


No-one can "jump" onto your FTTPoD connection, maybe Cerberus thought you meant sharing your connection with others? Under the current FTTPoD scheme, others on the same the fibre distribution point (DP) should be able to order 'native' FTTP independently once the property which orders FTTPoD is live. However I'm not sure if Openreach give any guarantees beforehand wrt which properties will be getting 'native' FTTP as a result of the FTTPoD order.


Ah yes you could be right. I may not have explained it clearly when i spoke to them.

I'll call again today and confirm.

smile
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 08:58:52
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
If you have a number of neighbours who would like FTTP as well why not consider a Community Fibre Partnership. BT make a contribution towards the installation and once installed you pay native prices.


Ah, i didn't know that.

Although, it may not be enough.

We only have 4 premises passed, one of those is a rental and not interested, and one is an older couple who 'may' be interested.

So, confirmed orders are myself and my immediate neighbour and that may not be enough for them

Also, they told me that i had to get committed parties to agree to the service, as once the survey has been done, and actual quote given, any one pulling out after that would cancel the whole process, meaning i would have to start again?

I'm confused.

Edited by Alucidnation (Wed 20-Mar-19 09:08:58)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 20-Mar-19 09:22:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Ah yes you could be right. I may not have explained it clearly when i spoke to them.

I'll call again today and confirm.

smile


This is also the reason why BT give a discount for number of properties passed is because you enable more people to order a FTTP product. Once you've gone live, those properties passed should be updated to have native FTTP available to them. Note the total properties passed includes your own property.

As others have said nothing is guaranteed if they are not part of the FTTP on Demand contract as there may be a technical reason BT decide not to allow those other properties to become 'native FTTP' after your install.

So you if you go the route of the neighbours informally paying towards the cost, you will also need to be prepared to pay that back should the neighbour(s) find they are not enabled for FTTP after you've gone live.

Regards

Phil
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 20-Mar-19 09:45:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
To be clear, Openreach. Not ďBTĒ. Bear in mind that most people still think of BT as meaning BT the company many pay their line and broadband rental to smile.

This matters particularly when talking about FTTPoD and FTTP, due to the small number of CPs offering either.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 10:22:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Ok got it thanks.

I guess if we decided (and could) go with a community program with OR, i am assuming it could work out cheaper than Cerebus, as OR contribute to the installation costs, as well as using the voucher scheme?
Standard User ppiixx
(newbie) Wed 20-Mar-19 12:29:25
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Don't forget that if you are going the community route that would be a new survey based on the people interested. So it could include more people than just the ones passed by a single FTTPoD survey.

See https://communityfibre.openreach.co.uk/ for details

Edited by ppiixx (Wed 20-Mar-19 12:30:16)

Standard User dect
(member) Wed 20-Mar-19 13:31:17
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I'm not aware of any evidence that says most people think/mean BT Retail when referring to just BT
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 21-Mar-19 07:48:09
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: ppiixx] [link to this post]
 
Ok, just had a look at the Openreach community fibre.

Looks a bit better, in so much you aren't tied to a an FTTPoD contract for the first twelve months.

A few quick questions..

Has anyone gone down this route?

Did the cost work out cheaper than FTTPoD installation?

Is the 'ballpark' figure they quote, the same as the high initial desktop quotes provided by Cerebus?

I understand from Cerebus, that once an order has been put in for the survey, anyone pulling out after the proper quotation stage, renders the whole order cancelled, and those remaining would have to start again. Is this the same with the OR community project?

Thanks guys.
Standard User dect
(member) Thu 21-Mar-19 08:29:46
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Ok, just had a look at the Openreach community fibre.

Looks a bit better, in so much you aren't tied to a an FTTPoD contract for the first twelve months.

A few quick questions..

Has anyone gone down this route?

Did the cost work out cheaper than FTTPoD installation?

Is the 'ballpark' figure they quote, the same as the high initial desktop quotes provided by Cerebus?

I understand from Cerebus, that once an order has been put in for the survey, anyone pulling out after the proper quotation stage, renders the whole order cancelled, and those remaining would have to start again. Is this the same with the OR community project?

Thanks guys.
The desktop quote is done at a DP level (equivalent to a copper DP) so if you and your willing neighbours are all on the same DP then the quote would be for just the one DP. As the CFP is done at a community level you don't have the issue of multiple orders as the community pays in two instalments one when the contract is signed and one when the work is done (you do need to setup a community interest company to collect the money and pay it to BT) The money you pay is considered a contribution to the cost as BT pays as well although they never reveal what they pay but I wouldn't expect the community contribution to be more than FTTPoD.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Mar-19 08:33:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
You may find the Community Fibre quote is considerably more expensive than the lone FTTPoD quote, as Openreach would most likely bring FTTP to most of your street/area, ie a lot more properties than just your & your neighbour even though it would be just 2 of you funding it. Hence the term "community". However until you see the actual figures from Openreach its just speculation.

Just to re-iterate my earlier point: FTTPoD is really intended for a single/lone install. Any nearby properties which get 'free' (native) FTTP as a result is purely down to Openreach's discretion, ie Openreach aren't contractually obliged to supply neighbouring premises with native FTTP on the back of a single order.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 21-Mar-19 08:38:31)

Standard User dect
(member) Thu 21-Mar-19 08:57:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
You may find the Community Fibre quote is considerably more expensive than the lone FTTPoD quote
I don't believe the cost would be more, I have been told by a contact in the CFP department that additional urban properties added would be out weighed by the additional contribution for each property made by BT, but the only way to find out is when someone gets a quote for FTTPoD and CFP smile
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Mar-19 09:08:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
the only way to find out is when someone gets a quote for FTTPoD and CFP smile


+1

Btw, is the CFP quote based on a Openreach site survey or on a desktop model? If the latter, is the cost liable to change after a site survey? (eg ECCs)

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Thu 21-Mar-19 10:10:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I'm still waiting for my installation date but just noticed this morning that my line has changed to WBC FTTP so hopefully installation will be very soon.

WBC FTTP Upto 1000 Upto 220 -- Available 1 Stage

My neighbours are also showing WBC FTTP except FTTP Install Process shows as KCI2 Assure.

Interestingly the houses enabled for FTTP doesn't exactly match the premises passed in the original survey - one more house to the left and one less house to the right are now enabled.

Edited by brookheather (Thu 21-Mar-19 10:18:36)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 21-Mar-19 10:58:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Nice, that's more progress than mine. The neighbors on the same DP are still showing as FTTP on Demand when I check a few random addresses. No further updates from Openreach yet, sadly.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Mar-19 12:08:21
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brookheather:
I'm still waiting for my installation date but just noticed this morning that my line has changed to WBC FTTP so hopefully installation will be very soon.

WBC FTTP Upto 1000 Upto 220 -- Available 1 Stage

My neighbours are also showing WBC FTTP except FTTP Install Process shows as KCI2 Assure.

Interestingly the houses enabled for FTTP doesn't exactly match the premises passed in the original survey - one more house to the left and one less house to the right are now enabled.


Great news! Matter of weeks now, rather than months/years. I hope your neighbours appreciate how lucky they are smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User dect
(member) Thu 21-Mar-19 12:18:39
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
is the CFP quote based on a Openreach site survey or on a desktop model? If the latter, is the cost liable to change after a site survey? (eg ECCs)
For all CFP's a desktop quote is done, If Openreach have good records they will sometimes offer a fixed prices job based on that desktop quote and sometimes its subject to ECC's, if their records are bad they also do a survey before contracts are signed.
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Thu 21-Mar-19 12:39:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
I hope your neighbours appreciate how lucky they are smile

I did pop a note through each door this morning to let them know they can now order Ultrafast. I don't expect much take up though as everyone here gets full 80/20 FTTC.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Fri 22-Mar-19 06:33:49
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Thanks everyone.

Looks like FTTPoD is the route i will go.

Just waiting for the neighbours to make up their minds so that i can order the survey.
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Mon 25-Mar-19 20:28:42
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
My FTTPoD installation date is Friday - quick question for anyone who has already gone live with Cerberus - when do you receive your login credentials (is it PPPoE?) Will I be able to connect my pfSense router straight away once the ONT has been installed or is further work required before the connection is live?

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User rman
(learned) Tue 26-Mar-19 13:00:16
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Mine went live last Thursday and I was using PfSense with FTTC prior to install.

You will receive an email from Cerberus containing your connection details, if you already have ppoe configured for fttc then you literally just need to change the username and password.

Luckily it was as simple as that, I wasn't 100% sure till I tried.
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Fri 29-Mar-19 11:08:48
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
So finally had my FTTPoD installed this morning - changed the connection details on my pfSense box and ran a few speed tests - getting in excess of 300Mbps on the download now.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15538575517...

Does anyone have the IPv6 configuration details as I want to set that up as well on the pfSense router?

My ping has also reduced by 2.3ms to under 4ms:

--- newswww.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 3.302/3.365/3.473/0.077 ms

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30

Edited by brookheather (Fri 29-Mar-19 11:14:17)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-19 11:22:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Nice speed test and latency there.

I'm unfortunately still waiting for Openreach to sort out subsequent mess ups with the order. Now there's apparently an issue with mapping and test results, it honestly feels like a never ending list of problems where one potentially gets fixed another seems to happen.

On the bright side however, I saw news recently that potentially a local business (altnet provider) is intending to rollout 1 gigabit symmetrical FTTP over the next few years to most of the city I live in and cheaper than Openreach's FTTP. Interesting times ahead!

Edited by Ixel (Fri 29-Mar-19 11:23:12)

Standard User rman
(learned) Fri 29-Mar-19 20:33:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Nice! i bet you are happy.

This evening is the first time i've seen the speed tests show anything but 310Mbps, i guess this is some network congestion. Still, can't complain at 280Mbps at peak times. Latency is still at 4ms, like yours.

It's also the first Friday evening i've used the internet/run a speed test since the install last week.

Why do you want IPv6 setup? I've not attempted or considered getting it configured.
Standard User rman
(learned) Fri 29-Mar-19 20:47:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Also seem to get better speed results via speedtest.net for some reason:

Multi connection:
https://www.speedtest.net/result/8149789653.png

Single connection:
https://www.speedtest.net/result/8149791900.png

Ping
Ping statistics for 151.101.64.81:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 4ms, Maximum = 4ms, Average = 4ms
Standard User rman
(learned) Fri 29-Mar-19 20:48:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Ixel, that must be really frustrating! You was almost complete when i was having my fibre ran and jointed frown

All be worth it in the end. What are you using for your router when it's finally complete?
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Fri 29-Mar-19 21:31:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
Why do you want IPv6 setup? I've not attempted or considered getting it configured.

I've not had a chance to play with IPv6 before as Plusnet don't currently support it so wanted to set it up just as a technical exercise I guess.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sat 30-Mar-19 09:22:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, hopefully next month there will be some noticeable progress. I'm eager to see how the other altnet provider does within the next few years as that could be another option in the future and potentially a better one too.

Regarding the router, most likely the FireBrick FB2900. I have an EdgeRouter 8 Pro too but that's not in use and is primarily a backup option if the FB2900 should for some reason fail.
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Mon 01-Apr-19 16:18:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Hey all.

Finally got my order completed this morning.
All testing fine although I'm thinking my latency is a little high at 18ms from my desktop

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

My Broadband Speed Test

I'm using an a ubiquiti AmplifiHD as my router and using the inbuilt speed tester, I'm getting 12ms consistantly which is a little better.

Anything to be concerned about? I saw a few of you guys getting 4-6ms

Edited by 1nfern0 (Mon 01-Apr-19 16:21:53)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 01-Apr-19 16:25:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The single thread download speed is quite a bit lower than the x6, this usually indicates congestion, this means your connection is a bit like a FTTC 40/20 service. Try speedtest.net and pick the "Single" speed test option just to rule out congestion between you and Thinkbroadband, what does this test at?

Regards

Phil
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Mon 01-Apr-19 16:34:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, just tested with speedtest.net and the single thread test is better at approx 113Mbps.
Ping is steady at 12ms.

Trace route to BBC is 11ms for the 2nd hop to Cerberus

Edited by 1nfern0 (Mon 01-Apr-19 16:37:41)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 01-Apr-19 16:41:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
I saw a few of you guys getting 4-6ms


Depends on how far away you are from London, where your ISP's POP is likely to be, as is whatever it is you're pinging.

Light in a fibre optic travels at about 200,000 km/s. So every 100km further away you are adds another 1ms to the round-trip time.
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Mon 01-Apr-19 16:48:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Fairpoint, I'm in Durham so could add 4ms
So this looks fairly reasonable to bbc.co.uk

1 <1 ms 1 ms 1 ms amplifi.lan []
2 13 ms 11 ms 11 ms lo-3-thn-lns07.cerberus.net.uk
3 12 ms 11 ms 13 ms 46-37-35-130.dsl.cnl.uk.net
4 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net
5 13 ms 12 ms 11 ms
Standard User brookheather
(regular) Mon 01-Apr-19 17:21:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
I am in London which is why I get a low 3ms ping. My single threaded speed test is the same as my x6 test so not sure why yours would be so low.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

My Broadband Speed Test

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30

Edited by brookheather (Mon 01-Apr-19 17:30:45)

Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-Apr-19 17:32:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
I saw a few of you guys getting 4-6ms


Depends on how far away you are from London, where your ISP's POP is likely to be, as is whatever it is you're pinging.

Light in a fibre optic travels at about 200,000 km/s. So every 100km further away you are adds another 1ms to the round-trip time.

I am on FTTP and about 3.5 miles (bird's-eye view) from Telehouse and I get the following:

Traceroute
tracert -4 bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Yazoo [192.168.2.253]
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  172.16.10.194
  3     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  31.55.186.181
  4     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  31.55.186.188
  5     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  host213-121-192-68.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.68]
  6     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  peer7-et-4-0-3.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.16.126]
  7     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  peer5-te0-9-0-32.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.81]
  8     2 ms     3 ms     2 ms  151.101.0.81

Trace complete.

Ping
ping -4 bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 151.101.0.81:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 2ms

Both traceroutes and pings fluctuate by +- 1 to 2 ms, but mostly the above.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 01-Apr-19 17:33:23)

Standard User Retron
(newbie) Tue 02-Apr-19 07:29:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
The one-year anniversary of my order has been and gone, with little sign of immediate progress. After being told that some new ducting was needed, it now seems Openreach are going to instead try again at squeezing the cabling through the existing duct. The snag is that the council will only let any digging / traffic control works take place during half-terms, meaning that the chance of it being done during the Easter holidays is now receding - meaning May or even July is now increasingly likely.

It's not Cerberus' fault, of course, but after a flurry of activity several months ago by the overhead cabling teams, the whole process now seems to have slowed down markedly.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 03-Apr-19 10:07:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Ouch, that's worse than my situation recently for sure. That's unfortunate. Hopefully something will happen soon.

I've just had a fleet of Openreach vans turn up around the back of the house where the DP is, they appear to be going over the various cables and equipment. Initially there were four vans, there's still one here currently and they appear to be busy working on the pole and in the underground cable chamber.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Wed 03-Apr-19 11:30:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Inferno

The slow single thread may be due to your PC, depends on speed of your multi core processor. Some older PCs seem to have a cap on single thread speeds but Multi threads multiply up where you have multi core processors.

Your distance means you have more core equipment to go through as well as the Km, each adds a small amount of latency and Durham may go via Newcastle and a Scottish Core node so goes up and down the country.These routers will not be visible on a traceroute.
Standard User bomber456
(committed) Wed 03-Apr-19 12:19:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
My confirmed build charges have finally come through.
not what i was expecting to say the least, was looking for something more around 2-4k

£6924 + VAT
so £8308.80 inc VAT

original estimate build charge was £8900+VAT (£10,680 inc VAT)

so only a £2371.20 reduction between the two.

Oh well maybe i can hold out a few years more as Swansea is a fibre first city and it should come to my post code...

...
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 03-Apr-19 13:03:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bomber456] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bomber456:
My confirmed build charges have finally come through.
not what i was expecting to say the least, was looking for something more around 2-4k


2k was wildly optimistic. 4k (+VAT) might have been possible if you were lucky; sadly you weren't.

This might indicate unusual difficulty with your particular install, or it might reflect Openreach finding that a proportion of installs are turning out more expensive than the surveyor predicted, so lifting the pricing in general.
Standard User bomber456
(committed) Wed 03-Apr-19 13:44:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Yeah i guess i was being optimistic, but the nearest aggregation node isn't too far away, roughly 800m, and its ducting all the way.
but yeah guess they have upped their prices with the difficulties of some of their other jobs.

...
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 04-Apr-19 13:15:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bomber456] [link to this post]
 
I've just had payment taken out for the field survey. I'm thinking this is a good sign that it'll start soon.

Does anyone know how long between the payment taken to OR physically starting the field survey?

Thanks in advance.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 04-Apr-19 13:41:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
Does anyone know how long between the payment taken to OR physically starting the field survey?

Could be days/weeks/months. Depends on Openreach staff availability in your area.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 04-Apr-19 15:13:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I've finally reached the commissioning stage, with Openreach wanting to install it next week. Waiting on a more precise date and AM/PM slot, but hooray!
Standard User E300
(newbie) Thu 04-Apr-19 17:49:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Same here, after waiting several weeks today received an invoice for the survey charges so appears the survey is getting booked.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 04-Apr-19 18:28:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
I've finally reached the commissioning stage, with Openreach wanting to install it next week. Waiting on a more precise date and AM/PM slot, but hooray!


I bet you must be relieved! From my own experience the last few weeks are the worst frown

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-19 10:19:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Ixel:
I've finally reached the commissioning stage, with Openreach wanting to install it next week. Waiting on a more precise date and AM/PM slot, but hooray!


I bet you must be relieved! From my own experience the last few weeks are the worst frown


Definitely! I thought this day would never arrive, with the order appearing to become a process of getting one step forward and then another two steps backwards.

I don't know the procedure for Cerberus sending PPPoE and IP address details but I assume they send these a day or two before the service is supposed to go live, as I'll need ample time to make sure the router and such here is ready for the service.
Standard User brookheather
(member) Fri 05-Apr-19 10:27:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I had to ask Cerberus for my PPPoE details as the OR installer was setting up the ONT. I received it within a few minutes.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-19 10:44:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
I see, I'll sort that the day before appointment so I have ample time to prepare things my end, unless it ends up being on Monday in which case I'll have to ask on the day first thing. Thanks.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-19 11:37:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
I couldnt find an answer to this question when scanning the previous threads, does Cerberus provide a router/modem or do we have to get our own?

I know people prefer using their own kit, which is understandable, but do we get anything from Cerberus as far as router/modem?

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User brookheather
(member) Fri 05-Apr-19 12:13:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I couldnt find an answer to this question when scanning the previous threads, does Cerberus provide a router/modem or do we have to get our own?

I know people prefer using their own kit, which is understandable, but do we get anything from Cerberus as far as router/modem?

No they don't provide a free router on FTTPoD - you can buy one from them if you want:

Zyxel VMG3925 ADSL2/VDSL2 FTTC 802.11ac 1600 Wireless Router - £79.00
Delivery - £11.25

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Fri 05-Apr-19 12:35:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Hey, sorry I've been travelling with work this week and just got home.
So latency is probably the best I can expect. I can't really complain too much.

Guess my next question why my single thread speed is so slower Typically around a third of my multi (80-110mbps)

My Broadband Speed Test

A similar result on Speedtest
https://www.speedtest.net/result/8165756419.png


tracert -4 bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms amplifi.lan [192.168.113.1]
2 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms lo-3-thn-lns07.cerberus.net.uk [46.37.48.2]
3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 46-37-35-130.dsl.cnl.uk.net [46.37.35.130]
4 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net [5.57.81.59]
5 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 151.101.128.81

Trace complete.

ping -4 bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=60

Ping statistics for 151.101.128.81:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 16ms, Average = 12ms







In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
I saw a few of you guys getting 4-6ms


Depends on how far away you are from London, where your ISP's POP is likely to be, as is whatever it is you're pinging.

Light in a fibre optic travels at about 200,000 km/s. So every 100km further away you are adds another 1ms to the round-trip time.

I am on FTTP and about 3.5 miles (bird's-eye view) from Telehouse and I get the following:

Traceroute
tracert -4 bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Yazoo [192.168.2.253]
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  172.16.10.194
  3     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  31.55.186.181
  4     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  31.55.186.188
  5     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  host213-121-192-68.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.68]
  6     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  peer7-et-4-0-3.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.16.126]
  7     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  peer5-te0-9-0-32.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.81]
  8     2 ms     3 ms     2 ms  151.101.0.81

Trace complete.

Ping
ping -4 bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 151.101.0.81:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 2ms

Both traceroutes and pings fluctuate by +- 1 to 2 ms, but mostly the above.

Paul

Edited by 1nfern0 (Fri 05-Apr-19 12:48:28)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Fri 05-Apr-19 14:18:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Hi

How are you testing? Is it wired Ethernet from a Windows PC?

If a Windows PC, it might be worth resetting your network back to defaults (search for 'windows pc reset network stack'), this is in case anything has played with the network settings.

What router are you using? Where you on VDSL before? If so did you have any similar issues with single thread being below multiple threads? What speeds do you get if you go to speedtest.net and use the single thread option?

Regards

Phil
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Fri 05-Apr-19 14:43:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Ethernet wired and same results on different laptops.

Good point on resetting the network stack. Will try that and will update.

Router wise, I'm using an Ubiquiti AmplifiHQ. I did have VDSL before but never tested single Vs Multi thread.
I'll try an borrow a different router and see if that shows any different results.

Results are the same/similar at speedtest.net so at least I know it's TBB's speedtest.
Could peering be an issue at the exchange?

I'll raise a ticket with Cerberus to see if they can look into it. I wasn't home when the connection was finalised so didn't see the engineers results but I'd assume they tested both single and multi.

Thanks
G

Ohh, i'll probably create a separate topic to save cluttering this one.
Standard User brookheather
(member) Fri 05-Apr-19 14:47:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
You should connect your laptop directly to the ONT without using your router and check your speeds to rule out an issue with your router. Also check you don't have any QoS or traffic shaping enabled which may be limiting single threaded speeds.

The OR installer doesn't perform any speed checks - they just check the light signal levels.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-19 18:22:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Sadly no news from Openreach about a confirmed appointment, which either means they could turn up by surprise on Monday morning early, or that they might still turn up some point next week, or possibly more likely they won't turn up until the week after by the time a confirmed date is given.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Apr-19 19:20:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
They definitely wonít turn up unannounced, so I would just sit tight & wait for the call. For my install appointment, they (some Openreach Manager) called me a week in advance and asked me to choose a time slot for the following week.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-19 20:07:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Itís FTTP no modem required ...

Standard User brookheather
(member) Fri 05-Apr-19 20:49:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I was just given an install date - no time slot - no phone call or contact before the date - I was actually the first appointment and he was at my door at 8.30am on the specified date.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Mon 08-Apr-19 13:31:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Latest update from today is that I have an appointment booked for tomorrow morning. I look forward to it.

I sent an email enquiring about PPPoE and IP address details, ideally so I can configure my router so it's ready to connect on the day. Hopefully I'll get those today. Also enquired about how to pay for the service itself, as I can't seem to setup a direct debit (option is unusable on my account) and I don't appear to have an invoice yet.
Standard User brookheather
(member) Mon 08-Apr-19 15:04:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Cerberus send the invoice day after you've connected.

PlusNet FTTC 80/20 + Cerberus FTTPoD 330/30
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Mon 08-Apr-19 15:53:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
I see, thanks. Well I have the PPPoE details and IP address details so I'm able to configure my FB2900 ready for the connection to the ONT device tomorrow, assuming the FTTP installation is successful and there are no issues. Fingers crossed..
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 09-Apr-19 17:44:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Woohoo, all done! Engineer was chatty and busy. He was late but I didn't mind that, Openreach were made aware that I was happy with an afternoon slot as long as someone arrived today.

Poor guy has a two hour trip home, presumably the last job of the day too as he didn't finish till about 4:30pm. Took nearly four hours. He had an issue at the end of the installation (red light) but it turned out a bit of rain managed to get on the end of the optic cable at the pole and was rectified easily!

My Broadband Speed Test

One thing that does astound me however is that Cerberus, or at least on my connection, isn't providing any IPv6 range. Is this something I have to request or is it not supported yet?
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Tue 09-Apr-19 18:05:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
One thing that does astound me however is that Cerberus, or at least on my connection, isn't providing any IPv6 range. Is this something I have to request or is it not supported yet?


Based on posts from forum user 'brookheather': you can go to a website to get a /64 allocation for your WAN link, and then on request they will give you another single /64 (!!) for your LAN side.

That's just mad. Shout and scream until they give you a /48, or at least a /56. Point out the relevant standards - e.g. rfc3177, ripe-690.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 09-Apr-19 18:16:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks but I don't think that's necessary now, I think after a bit of time or reconfiguring of my FB2900 I've now got an IPv6. It looks like /64 though as you mentioned. But why would I need a /48 or /56, other than because of relevant standards? Sorry if it's a stupid question but surely /64 is enough as that's 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 addresses right?

EDIT: After reading the second ripe mention, I see...
Assigning a /64 or longer prefix does not conform to IPv6 standards and will break functionality in customer LANs. With a single /64, the end customer CPE will have just one possible network on the LAN side and it will not be possible to subnet, assign VLANs, alternative SSIDs, or have several chained routers in the same customer network, etc.


I'll ask Cerberus for a /56 at the very least tomorrow due to this.

Edited by Ixel (Tue 09-Apr-19 18:19:31)

Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Sat 13-Apr-19 05:27:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
I had the following update from Cerberus on Thursday:

ďOpenreach advise today that they are currently chasing for the OCR exchange estimate to be completed before jointers can return to site. Underground allocator has assigned an engineer to site today to deal with the exchange work, if successful jointer will be assigned later in the week to complete the testing.Ē

Can anyone here from Openreach explain what an ďOCR exchange estimateĒ is please?

Is it some sort of optical loss or OTDR test? I have asked Cerberus to explain in laymanís terms, but it usually takes a few days to get a reply from them and often my question doesnít get a straight answer, so looking for some clarity from the eggspurts on here smile
Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Sat 13-Apr-19 09:39:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
I had the following update from Cerberus on Thursday:

ďOpenreach advise today that they are currently chasing for the OCR exchange estimate to be completed before jointers can return to site. Underground allocator has assigned an engineer to site today to deal with the exchange work, if successful jointer will be assigned later in the week to complete the testing.Ē

Can anyone here from Openreach explain what an ďOCR exchange estimateĒ is please?

Is it some sort of optical loss or OTDR test? I have asked Cerberus to explain in laymanís terms, but it usually takes a few days to get a reply from them and often my question doesnít get a straight answer, so looking for some clarity from the eggspurts on here smile


Did some judicious googling and found some references to OCR in some Cartesian/Ofcom documents:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0027...

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025...

OCR (Optical Consolidation Rack)
3.41 The OCR is used for the splicing of the OCR Tie Cable into fibre cables for direct connection to the active equipment (in this case, the OLT). The OCR constitutes an efficient alternative to the traditional Optical Distribution Frame (ODF). The OCR is comprised of a few subcomponents, which are listed separately in the 2016 NGA model. The table below lists the subcomponents, as well as typical capacity values. Note that these values will be updated in the next iteration of the 2016 NGA model, following input from CPs.
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Sun 14-Apr-19 12:03:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Woohoo, all done! Engineer was chatty and busy. He was late but I didn't mind that, Openreach were made aware that I was happy with an afternoon slot as long as someone arrived today.

Poor guy has a two hour trip home, presumably the last job of the day too as he didn't finish till about 4:30pm. Took nearly four hours. He had an issue at the end of the installation (red light) but it turned out a bit of rain managed to get on the end of the optic cable at the pole and was rectified easily!

My Broadband Speed Test

One thing that does astound me however is that Cerberus, or at least on my connection, isn't providing any IPv6 range. Is this something I have to request or is it not supported yet?


Awesome. Hope it is going well.

Had mine for a few weeks now and loving it. Guest usage jumped from previous average of 500GB/month to 2.4TB/month. So clearly the guests loving it as well.
SkyQ gives ready to watch on UHD in circa 2seconds.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sun 14-Apr-19 13:09:48
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Nice, yeah it's going well here too. I'm enjoying the fast speed. Hope Cerberus (assuming that's the ISP you're with) don't mind that kind of usage per month wink. They also allocated me a /56 so I'm actually IPv6 compliant, instead of the /64 I was originally allocated.

Edited by Ixel (Sun 14-Apr-19 13:10:41)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-Apr-19 14:55:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Nice, yeah it's going well here too. I'm enjoying the fast speed. Hope Cerberus (assuming that's the ISP you're with) don't mind that kind of usage per month wink. They also allocated me a /56 so I'm actually IPv6 compliant, instead of the /64 I was originally allocated.


Around 6 months ago someone on Cerberus was asked to reduce their monthly usage to < 1 TB on the 330/50 FTTP service. He was downloading 3.8 TBs per month, on average.

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4604630-re...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sun 14-Apr-19 19:22:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Oof, less than 1TB, that to me feels a little on the strict side. I tend to use a bit over 1TB a month, hopefully that won't be an issue.
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Mon 15-Apr-19 11:31:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Nice, yeah it's going well here too. I'm enjoying the fast speed. Hope Cerberus (assuming that's the ISP you're with) don't mind that kind of usage per month wink. They also allocated me a /56 so I'm actually IPv6 compliant, instead of the /64 I was originally allocated.


Around 6 months ago someone on Cerberus was asked to reduce their monthly usage to < 1 TB on the 330/50 FTTP service. He was downloading 3.8 TBs per month, on average.

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4604630-re...


I was surprised at how high it seemed to be. Does seem to be what the USG-Pro-4 is reporting, as our usage. I did have good discussion with Cerberus prior to starting and they said there was no limit, just a fair play clause, can't remember the exact wording but it didn't have a strict limit.

With Netflix, streaming music etc becoming more and more common then payload is just going to increase. Looking at the guest network device names this weekend I see 2X-BoxOnes, 2 Amazon Echo devices, and a Sonos device. IT is no longer just to stay in touch, streaming whilst on holiday now seems the norm.
Standard User jecop
(newbie) Fri 26-Apr-19 11:10:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Submitted request for desktop survey to Cerberus on 4/4, received response on 25/4

We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £14,300.00 ex VAT

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 4

Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 400 - 599m. The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.
Standard User Garlic
(member) Fri 26-Apr-19 12:37:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jecop] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jecop:
Submitted request for desktop survey to Cerberus on 4/4, received response on 25/4

We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £14,300.00 ex VAT

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 4

Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 400 - 599m. The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.


I know it depends so much on the facts on the grounds but 14k for potentially as little as 400m is unluckly.

-----------
FTTP 80/20
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Fri 26-Apr-19 15:05:49
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
But it's only an estimate.
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Fri 26-Apr-19 16:37:48
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
With Netflix, streaming music etc becoming more and more common then payload is just going to increase. Looking at the guest network device names this weekend I see 2X-BoxOnes, 2 Amazon Echo devices, and a Sonos device. IT is no longer just to stay in touch, streaming whilst on holiday now seems the norm.


That's because for many users now it's how they consume TV. So imagine you take your little ones on holiday, and they want to watch their favourite TV show while you get ready to go out for the day, whether it's Peppa Pig or Blaze, or PJ Masks etc. and you use a streaming service. You don't have DVD's to take with you because it's all streaming...
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Fri 26-Apr-19 17:42:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
With Netflix, streaming music etc becoming more and more common then payload is just going to increase. Looking at the guest network device names this weekend I see 2X-BoxOnes, 2 Amazon Echo devices, and a Sonos device. IT is no longer just to stay in touch, streaming whilst on holiday now seems the norm.


That's because for many users now it's how they consume TV. So imagine you take your little ones on holiday, and they want to watch their favourite TV show while you get ready to go out for the day, whether it's Peppa Pig or Blaze, or PJ Masks etc. and you use a streaming service. You don't have DVD's to take with you because it's all streaming...


Agreed, but I wouldn't have said "because for many users now it's how they consume TV." a year ago. We would get a games console now and again and an Echo would be a rare surprise on the network. However the frequency of these things appearing has somewhat shot up. We are a rural destination, and only have FTTPoD because we were in a position to drop £10k on it, few other small holiday complexes have it, so I suppose I better shout about it and get the benefit.

But I now flick past the movies on Sky, see there is nothing I want about to start and look at downloads, it is ready to watch immediately in UHD. Previously downloading took 16-hours so you had to plan tomorrows download. Heck if you miss the first three minutes or just want UHD, then download away. That's 13GB done on one movie because you got in the chair 3-minutes late.
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Mon 29-Apr-19 14:09:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Agreed, but I wouldn't have said "because for many users now it's how they consume TV." a year ago. We would get a games console now and again and an Echo would be a rare surprise on the network. However the frequency of these things appearing has somewhat shot up. We are a rural destination, and only have FTTPoD because we were in a position to drop £10k on it, few other small holiday complexes have it, so I suppose I better shout about it and get the benefit.


Are you sure that is not a symptom of not having a suitable internet connection to support it? I can't imagine people are more likely to be bringing them more often than prior to getting your FTTP connection given the from memory relatively short time it has been active. More likely they brought them, tried them out found they didn't work well and gave up if you ask me.

I would however make sure you make a fuss about having great internet speeds if it was me. My sister started letting her old flat out AirBnB last year and was getting low take up till see got some internet installed. People just expect it these days.
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Mon 29-Apr-19 14:22:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Agreed, but I wouldn't have said "because for many users now it's how they consume TV." a year ago. We would get a games console now and again and an Echo would be a rare surprise on the network. However the frequency of these things appearing has somewhat shot up. We are a rural destination, and only have FTTPoD because we were in a position to drop £10k on it, few other small holiday complexes have it, so I suppose I better shout about it and get the benefit.


Are you sure that is not a symptom of not having a suitable internet connection to support it? I can't imagine people are more likely to be bringing them more often than prior to getting your FTTP connection given the from memory relatively short time it has been active. More likely they brought them, tried them out found they didn't work well and gave up if you ask me.

I would however make sure you make a fuss about having great internet speeds if it was me. My sister started letting her old flat out AirBnB last year and was getting low take up till see got some internet installed. People just expect it these days.


Would have still seen them on the network, they would be unlikely to have taken them off the network. We did have 4Mbps and 15Mbps on radio, so streaming/gaming was possible, just not all guests at the same time. And the change hasn't been night and day. But over the last 12-months they have popped up more & more often.

You may have likely streamed for ages, but then you are on a broadband technical forum, so ahead of the curve. The population is always changing, and kids now stream stuff constantly, those kids are rapidly turning into older-teens/adults and don't know life before streaming. I would suggest that streaming is probably moving from innovator/early adopter into main take-up phase. Overall usage likely to take a big jump.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Wed 01-May-19 18:21:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Just an update on where I am regarding FTTP on Demand.

After waiting several weeks due to a stop on new orders, Cerberus put through the order a couple of weeks ago, and a survey has now taken place.

It took him a couple of hours at my end to check everything out, however he was in and around the street for most of the day and was surveying other roads off mine, which appear unconnected to my potential order, as these streets are not on the route back to the aggregation point and in opposite directions to each other. He was also spotted here the following day as well but I didnít get chance to speak to him.

Interestingly some white markings have been sprayed around some telegraph poles further down the street, and a pre-planning notice has been posted on a pole to say a new pole will be erected. For context, the street Iím on is a dead end with 70s built houses at the start, with a few houses at the end built later in the late 80s where I am, these newer edition houses are all underground telephone cable, the 70s houses are pole fed, and itís further down the street the notice was posted which is on the route to the aggregation node which happens to be at the fibre cabinet.

So, Iím not sure what is going on, and as I havenít been quoted the build costs yet, would they be marking up and putting up pre-planning notices for my FTTP on Demand order that isnít confirmed?

Anyway, just a case of waiting to see what the confirmed build costs are now.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 02-May-19 21:34:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Anyone enlighten me on what a ďduct overlayĒ is? Apparently this is what the un-unblockable duct outside our house now needs.

Mike
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 02-May-19 21:49:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
would they be marking up and putting up pre-planning notices for my FTTP on Demand order that isnít confirmed?


I'd say that's unlikely. It could just be normal replacement of dangerous/decayed poles.

You *might* be very lucky and there's some FTTP upgrade already going on, in which case you'll find this out from the survey results.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Fri 03-May-19 07:57:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
New cable duct
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Fri 03-May-19 10:59:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
Interestingly some white markings have been sprayed around some telegraph poles further down the street, and a pre-planning notice has been posted on a pole to say a new pole will be erected. For context, the street Iím on is a dead end with 70s built houses at the start, with a few houses at the end built later in the late 80s where I am, these newer edition houses are all underground telephone cable, the 70s houses are pole fed, and itís further down the street the notice was posted which is on the route to the aggregation node which happens to be at the fibre cabinet.

So, Iím not sure what is going on, and as I havenít been quoted the build costs yet, would they be marking up and putting up pre-planning notices for my FTTP on Demand order that isnít confirmed?


Could simply be that he has marked it up incase you proceed with the order. That way he does not have to come out again and mark it up if you do.

Alternatively Openreach might have finally smelt the coffee and figure if you do go ahead and they are pulling fibre down the street to your house then it would be monumentally stupid not to enable the poles as they do so. Especially if speeds are poor in the street resulting in decent take up.
Standard User Damo_clover
(newbie) Fri 03-May-19 13:15:35
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
So wonder if anyone has come across my experience with the commmunity fibre team at Openreach

requested a quote last year and was given an initial quote for £14k for 93 homes, now the full survey has been done it's come back at £29k, reason they say;

"Iíve done some digging, looks like 82 of the 115 premises are connected to cabinet 38 that is already FTTC enabled and can currently achieve speeds of over 30Mbps. This then falls into a situation called ďOverbuildĒ i.e. our commercial model on FTTC was a payback period f 15-years and because we have not seen the ROI on this investment our contribution to the FTTP solution is greatly reduced, hence why the gap cost is now £29,542.00."

Very frustrating as the initial quote was really achievable especially with the voucher scheme, but now, no chance frown

Edited by Damo_clover (Fri 03-May-19 13:23:35)

Standard User dect
(member) Fri 03-May-19 15:43:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Damo_clover] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Damo_clover:
requested a quote last year and was given an initial quote for £14k for 93 homes, now the full survey has been done it's come back at £29k
I know its not what you want to hear but £29k for 93 properties is still a really good price, I believe the average price per property is normally around £1.5k (via CFP) which would make it around £140k
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Sat 04-May-19 01:08:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
In reply to a post by E300:
Interestingly some white markings have been sprayed around some telegraph poles further down the street, and a pre-planning notice has been posted on a pole to say a new pole will be erected. For context, the street Iím on is a dead end with 70s built houses at the start, with a few houses at the end built later in the late 80s where I am, these newer edition houses are all underground telephone cable, the 70s houses are pole fed, and itís further down the street the notice was posted which is on the route to the aggregation node which happens to be at the fibre cabinet.

So, Iím not sure what is going on, and as I havenít been quoted the build costs yet, would they be marking up and putting up pre-planning notices for my FTTP on Demand order that isnít confirmed?


Could simply be that he has marked it up incase you proceed with the order. That way he does not have to come out again and mark it up if you do.

Alternatively Openreach might have finally smelt the coffee and figure if you do go ahead and they are pulling fibre down the street to your house then it would be monumentally stupid not to enable the poles as they do so. Especially if speeds are poor in the street resulting in decent take up.


Or as simple as the surveyor noting the pole is out of date and needs a survey and blatantly won't pass.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Sat 04-May-19 09:53:12
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Iíve now noticed another street that comes off at a right angle to mine that is older properties that are overhead telephone cables also has 2 poles both with pre-planning notices saying new poles to go up opposite them on the other side of the street. So thatís 3 new telegraph poles as a result of my FTTPoD survey. The notices give no reason as to why the new posts are going up.

I wonder if the span of wire is too long and out of spec and itís just been spotted now? The poles on one side feed both sides of the street and I guess some spans are up to 40 metres although itís probably been that way for 50+ years. Could it be it is for FTTP and the fibre span from pole to house canít go as far, so they need the extra poles to serve both sides of the street?

Iíll keep on eye out on the councils planning site and roadworks.org to see if anything gets posted there, it may have a bit more info to the reason.

As Iíve not had a confirmed build cost yet, let alone given the go ahead, Iím surprised to see these notices go up if they are related to me bringing fibre past those roads. Still they are pre-planning notices so maybe the surveyor is just trying to speed things up by giving people the notice required early on, and if I donít go ahead, neither do the new poles.

It kind of makes sense to enable more properties with my FTTP order if the work isnít too much, as long as Iím not paying for it smile
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 05-May-19 14:46:53
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
It's doesn't sound unusual that when tasked to survey a specific area OpenReach are taking the time to survey a slightly wider area.

Common sense says it's more efficient to have the surveyor do a whole days work covering the whole area rather than travel to your street and do an hours work then return to base.

The fact poles not on your FTTPoD route are marked as needing replaced should not be of any concern and will not be related to your order. Even the local engineer is to report faulty poles as needing checked/replaced so a surveyor doing this should be no surprise.

OpenReach may be looking to enable a slightly wider area for FTTP along with the work for your FTTPoD order. This additional work would not be paid for by you.

There's also the possibility they could recommend you withdraw your order as after the survey they have decided to cover the area with FTTP at their own cost.

Either way you shouldn't be concerned that the surveyor did more than just your route.
There are a number of members her who have had similar experiences and is just common sense imo.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Sun 05-May-19 16:30:15
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
It's doesn't sound unusual that when tasked to survey a specific area OpenReach are taking the time to survey a slightly wider area.

Common sense says it's more efficient to have the surveyor do a whole days work covering the whole area rather than travel to your street and do an hours work then return to base.

The fact poles not on your FTTPoD route are marked as needing replaced should not be of any concern and will not be related to your order. Even the local engineer is to report faulty poles as needing checked/replaced so a surveyor doing this should be no surprise.

OpenReach may be looking to enable a slightly wider area for FTTP along with the work for your FTTPoD order. This additional work would not be paid for by you.

There's also the possibility they could recommend you withdraw your order as after the survey they have decided to cover the area with FTTP at their own cost.

Either way you shouldn't be concerned that the surveyor did more than just your route.
There are a number of members her who have had similar experiences and is just common sense imo.


Many thanks for the response.

Just to say, the poles are not replacements, they are additional to what is there already. The notices say things like "New pole 5 metres to the left of this pole on the opposite side of the road", hence I guess it is why it needs a planning notice, a replacement pole presumably would not?

I wouldn't say I am concerned, more interested in what was happening, and why it was deemed necessary all of a sudden to need additional poles on those streets. I can only think they must be getting FTTP on the back of my order then, and if Openreach did turn around and say no charge we are doing those streets anyway then fantastic news.

I'll update when I've had details of the survey back.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sun 05-May-19 18:33:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
It's also possible the surveyor found the existing poles were overloaded, hence new ones required to fix this problem.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Tue 07-May-19 13:22:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi Guys,

Do I need to have a standard phone line as well with FTTPoD?

Never use our current one, it's only there for broadband.

Cheers
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Tue 07-May-19 13:41:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Hi Guys,

Do I need to have a standard phone line as well with FTTPoD?

Never use our current one, it's only there for broadband.

Cheers


No you don't. Usually the FTTP on Demand will be installed leaving your phone line/service unchanged, so if you don't want it anymore, you just tell your phone provider you want to cancel. The safest thing is not to cancel until you have FTTP up and running, so you aren't left without Internet.

Regards

Phil
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-19 13:50:13
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
My FTTC/FTTPoD/G.FAST are available does this mean FTTPoD will be lots cheaper now or make no difference?
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 07-May-19 13:57:59
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
It depends on where the aggregation node is, and I highly doubt g.fast availability will change this. More than likely the cost will be the same.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Tue 07-May-19 13:59:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by adslmax:
My FTTC/FTTPoD/G.FAST are available does this mean FTTPoD will be lots cheaper now or make no difference?


It makes no difference except for the fact you can enquire about FTTPoD and should be able to order it.

What makes the difference is how far away the aggregation node is from you, and this isn't always near your fibre cabinet, plus how hard the job likely is to get the fibre from the node to you.

You will only know the true price by getting a survey done for £250 + VAT, a desktop survey is free but it isn't what you will pay, but can give you an indicator.

Regards

Phil
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-19 14:00:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
How to find out where is my nearer aggregation node are? Will openreach tell me this if I emailed them.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-19 14:03:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
You will only know the true price by getting a survey done for £250 + VAT, a desktop survey is free but it isn't what you will pay, but can give you an indicator.

Regards

Phil


But I hate to lose £250 + VAT (I believe it will be non-refundable) if the cost are quite too expensive. I do remember long while back that I am on Band F on the old FTTPoD quote.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 07-May-19 14:04:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
If you request a desktop survey quote from an ISP who does FTTPoD, like Cerberus, the more recent quotes I believe come with an estimated distance from the nearest node.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-19 14:05:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Don't think Cerberus want me anymore more likely they will banned me but I did apology to them last year due to my mental health issues.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 07-May-19 14:06:32)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Tue 07-May-19 14:10:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by Ixel:
If you request a desktop survey quote from an ISP who does FTTPoD, like Cerberus, the more recent quotes I believe come with an estimated distance from the nearest node.


Absolutely they do give a distance range, although that doesn't tell the whole story as it depends on how much work it is to connect up. Us knowing the distance is irrelevant as there is no correlation between distance to the aggregation node and the actual build cost.

The best ADSLMax can do is get a desktop quote, if it comes back really high that might be enough to make a decision to either go ahead or not with an actual survey.

Yes the survey fee is non-refundable, that is because a lot of work takes place to complete the survey, but the price you get is the price you pay.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-May-19 15:31:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
The best ADSLMax can do is stop fretting ... he has already invented a fictitious FTTPoD order, to the point that the CP had to post on here and denounce it.

Take his posts with a prince of salt.

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Tue 07-May-19 15:37:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Hi Guys,

Do I need to have a standard phone line as well with FTTPoD?

Never use our current one, it's only there for broadband.

Cheers


No you don't. Usually the FTTP on Demand will be installed leaving your phone line/service unchanged, so if you don't want it anymore, you just tell your phone provider you want to cancel. The safest thing is not to cancel until you have FTTP up and running, so you aren't left without Internet.

Regards

Phil


Thanks Phil.

smile
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Wed 08-May-19 16:21:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Hi all

After about 18 months of indecision and reading these various threads, I've taken the plunge on an FTTPoD survey from Cerberus @ £250+vat

All areas of Cardiff bar the north east are getting native FTTP and yes I live in the NE, see https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-fi...

After some email were exchanged between myself and Matt Sharpe (Infrastructure Solutions Executive Complaints) @ Openreach, he confirmed NE Cardiff wasn't in the pipeline anytime soon for FTTP.

I upgraded my current line to g.fast a few months ago but the reliability of speed is poor. I have had 2 OR engineers visit and they can't solve the issue. I am ment to get 200/20 but regularly get 60/20 and even 20/20!

Anyway, I'm looking forward to finding out the news on the actual build cost. My desktop survey was £8800. A quarter of this figure would be doable, hopeful I know but it's more the not knowing that has been irking me!

Will keep you all updated
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Thu 09-May-19 15:49:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by donkay:
Hi all

After about 18 months of indecision and reading these various threads, I've taken the plunge on an FTTPoD survey from Cerberus @ £250+vat

All areas of Cardiff bar the north east are getting native FTTP and yes I live in the NE, see https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-fi...

After some email were exchanged between myself and Matt Sharpe (Infrastructure Solutions Executive Complaints) @ Openreach, he confirmed NE Cardiff wasn't in the pipeline anytime soon for FTTP.

I upgraded my current line to g.fast a few months ago but the reliability of speed is poor. I have had 2 OR engineers visit and they can't solve the issue. I am ment to get 200/20 but regularly get 60/20 and even 20/20!

Anyway, I'm looking forward to finding out the news on the actual build cost. My desktop survey was £8800. A quarter of this figure would be doable, hopeful I know but it's more the not knowing that has been irking me!

Will keep you all updated


I should also add that under the previous OR FTTPoD pricing scheme I was Band A
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 09-May-19 17:26:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Quite.

Anyway, i have now ordered and paid for a proper survey, so i'm now just waiting for the date.
Standard User wifigeek
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-19 13:15:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
joining the party

- 600-800m to aggr node
- 'unknown' install and survey required (£250)
- survey requested (I live on an estate that is FTTC only; estate opposite me has FTTP; all manholes etc are in place and run in that general direction)

someone came out today; and interestingly according to his data i would be served from an aggr node that is not at all where i expected - so we will see how it goes.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 13-May-19 13:51:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: wifigeek] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by wifigeek:
joining the party

- 600-800m to aggr node
- 'unknown' install and survey required (£250)
- survey requested (I live on an estate that is FTTC only; estate opposite me has FTTP; all manholes etc are in place and run in that general direction)

someone came out today; and interestingly according to his data i would be served from an aggr node that is not at all where i expected - so we will see how it goes.


You can't make any guesses or conclusions unfortunately from the fact an estate next to you has FTTP. The same estate will connect back to an aggregation node, maybe the same one you need to, i.e. they can't just go from the estate to you, it has to be from an aggregation node to you.

Ideally, if the aggregation node is very near or at your FTTC cabinet, that's the better option, as generally the fibre cable then just follow the same route as your telephone cable, using existing ducting or overhead poles, if it's somewhere else, that means it needs a new route built from there to you, which often entails road closures and laying all new ducting which equals more expense. This is why we see quotes often having little relationship to the aggregation node distance, it's more about the route to get to you.

Fingers crossed it works out all okay.

Regards

Phil
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Mon 13-May-19 15:14:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Quick question (probably answered before...apologies)

Is the fibre agg node likely to situated at the cabinet where the g.fast cabinet has been added recently?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 13-May-19 15:31:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by donkay:
Quick question (probably answered before...apologies)

Is the fibre agg node likely to situated at the cabinet where the g.fast cabinet has been added recently?
The G.Fast addon to the PCP is fed fibre from the associated FTTC cabinet that was already there. The aggregation node is the one feeding that cabinet. No additional node is added for the G.Fast. (At least, normally).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up. BQM
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 13-May-19 15:58:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by donkay:
Quick question (probably answered before...apologies)

Is the fibre agg node likely to situated at the cabinet where the g.fast cabinet has been added recently?


It's more likely it isn't situated at your FTTC cabinet.

Typically (though not always) an Aggregation Node serves 3 or 4 FTTC cabinets.
So your Agg Node could be at your FTTC cabinet but it could also be next to the other 2 or 3 FTTC cabinets that it serves.

They aren't always right next to 1 of the cabinets they serve though. They can be placed anywhere inbetween them.
My Agg Node is roughly half way between my PCP and the next PCP it serves.

The existence or lack of G.Fast has zero bearing on Aggregation Nodes. It won't have any impact on price or difficulty too install FTTPoD.

The Fibre for FTTC cabinets and FTTP both come from the Agg Node.
The Fibre for G.Fast comes from fibre at the existing FTTC cabinet.
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Mon 13-May-19 19:51:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the info both
Standard User McShaneDCFC
(newbie) Tue 14-May-19 16:21:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I applied for a desktop quote on 01 April, still havenít received a response from Cerberus. Is it normal to take this long?
Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Thu 16-May-19 20:20:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: McShaneDCFC] [link to this post]
 
I originally asked for a quote back in November 2018; then I was told native FTTP was coming to my street with work due to be complete by end of April; then I was told that due to issues with the highway that they had indefinitely delayed native fibre in my area; Openreach then told Cerberus that they would do a quote.

I got that back today; needless to say I asked that they cancel the order as it came to £22,960 with VAT - the desktop quote was £9,500 and the hope was that the actual quote would come out below that not more than double.

A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour
£5,686.00
Stores
£4,170.00
Contract Labour
£0.00
Civils
£9,800.00
Civils Stores
£0.00
Tree cutting
£0.00
BT Connection Charge
£495.00
-£250.00
Deductions
-£1,000.00
£18,901.00

The deductions are for the survey fee and for premises passed.

Can anyone break down these costs? My post code is BN207TW.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 16-May-19 21:21:07
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
While I can't breakdown the costs, just wanted to mention that you're in the same city as me. That is quite a high price though, unfortunately.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 16-May-19 23:35:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spinstorm:
I got that back today; needless to say I asked that they cancel the order as it came to £22,960 with VAT - the desktop quote was £9,500 and the hope was that the actual quote would come out below that not more than double.


I think thats the first time that the survey quote came out higher thn the desktop quote.

I'm still waiting for the survey report for mine. Apparently Cerberus are having to escalate the planning team to get on with the report/cost. So not sure if thats a good or bad sign.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Fri 17-May-19 08:58:07
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I think thats the first time that the survey quote came out higher thn the desktop quote.


It's happened a couple of times before that have been reported here.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Fri 17-May-19 13:36:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I think thats the first time that the survey quote came out higher thn the desktop quote.


It's happened a couple of times before that have been reported here.


Nice to see my brother's still topping the list at 358% over whilst mine was 48% under! Still loving have 330Mbps on tap.
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Sat 18-May-19 08:02:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
An update - coming up to 14 months after ordering, the end is finally in sight.

In the end Openreach managed to "overblow" some fibre through the congested ducting half a mile away from my house - it was just over 100m that they had to cover, so I'd imagine it was quite fiddly.

After that had been done, the order moved on to "jointing" and a couple of weeks later the spools of fibre that had been tacked to the surrounding poles have been either removed (on my neighbour's pole) or connected up. There's now a 12-port CBT on the pole over the road, presumably connected to a splitter on the next pole up - the poles are heavily loaded here, as they carry power, phone and fibre, so I guess they couldn't fit it all on one pole!

December - view of coiled fibre over the road:
http://oi66.tinypic.com/mb7hqp.jpg

May - 12-port CBT:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/24xoytf.jpg

Splitter - on the next pole along:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2vvtkm0.jpg
Note the other telephony equipment on there - it's a crowded pole!

Anyway, the next step is testing, then at long last commissioning (which is where I'll finally get to see an Openreach installer in person - everything so far has been done while I've been at work).

Edited by Retron (Sat 18-May-19 08:09:45)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sat 18-May-19 09:22:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Excellent news!

Looks like I am going to win the prize for longest FTTPoD install then. Overblowing wasn't suggested as an option for me - they're going to dig 164m of new duct, and that's now scheduled for end of June.

They realised this would be required in December, but didn't think to book the streetworks until end of March, which then required a three-month notice period because of road closure frown

I placed the survey order on 10/03/18; survey returned and confirmed order 26/06/18.
Standard User Retron
(learned) Sat 18-May-19 09:45:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Excellent news!

Looks like I am going to win the prize for longest FTTPoD install then.

They realised this would be required in December, but didn't think to book the streetworks until end of March, which then required a three-month notice period because of road closure frown

I placed the survey order on 10/03/18; survey returned and confirmed order 26/06/18.

Not really a prize anyone would want to win! I guess the consolation is that if they're having to dig a good chunk of new ducting for your order, at least you'll be getting your money's worth - it'll be costing them a fortune.

Hopefully it'll just be the one set of roadworks in your case rather than the three seperate sets mine took (along with several aborted permits).

Indeed, I wonder if that's why some of the more recent surveys posted here have come out as expensive as they have - installs like ours where it's far from straightforward would have been pushing their average cost per install upwards at a fair old rate!

I'll be interested to hear how quickly things progress for you once they've done the ducting. In theory, it should at least then be weeks rather than months to wait...

Edited by Retron (Sat 18-May-19 09:49:13)

Standard User Garlic
(member) Sat 18-May-19 11:17:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
An update - coming up to 14 months after ordering, the end is finally in sight.

In the end Openreach managed to "overblow" some fibre through the congested ducting half a mile away from my house - it was just over 100m that they had to cover, so I'd imagine it was quite fiddly.

After that had been done, the order moved on to "jointing" and a couple of weeks later the spools of fibre that had been tacked to the surrounding poles have been either removed (on my neighbour's pole) or connected up. There's now a 12-port CBT on the pole over the road, presumably connected to a splitter on the next pole up - the poles are heavily loaded here, as they carry power, phone and fibre, so I guess they couldn't fit it all on one pole!

December - view of coiled fibre over the road:
http://oi66.tinypic.com/mb7hqp.jpg

May - 12-port CBT:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/24xoytf.jpg

Splitter - on the next pole along:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2vvtkm0.jpg
Note the other telephony equipment on there - it's a crowded pole!

Anyway, the next step is testing, then at long last commissioning (which is where I'll finally get to see an Openreach installer in person - everything so far has been done while I've been at work).


Its going to be a bad day when that pole reaches the end of its life! Hope it was well inside its expected life smile

-----------
FTTP 80/20
Standard User Retron
(learned) Sat 18-May-19 12:49:27
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Garlic:
Its going to be a bad day when that pole reaches the end of its life! Hope it was well inside its expected life smile

Considering the pole opposite my house was there in the early 80s, when I moved here, I suspect it's not got that much left in it. The one with the splitter on it is much newer.

It'll certainly give Openreach and UK Power a headache when the time comes!

I'm assuming the pole is owned by UK Power, rather than Openreach, so putting in a new one "just in case" wouldn't have been an option. There are two poles on my side of the road - one an equally old power pole, the other a virtually brand-new Openreach pole, as the previous one was reversed into by a bin lorry a few months ago!
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 18-May-19 13:00:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
I doubt it would be a great issue. Openreach replace poles and cabinets almost daily, but being a shared user pole it would be down to the power company to lead, but no reason a pole should not last 50 years or more unless damaged.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sat 18-May-19 14:09:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
Hopefully it'll just be the one set of roadworks in your case rather than the three seperate sets mine took (along with several aborted permits).


Hah, well last year when they dug the adjoining 34m of duct, it took about 2 months start to end, requiring three permits. We'll see how long it takes to do 164m with a road closure!
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-May-19 14:56:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
I'm assuming the pole is owned by UK Power, rather than Openreach, so putting in a new one "just in case" wouldn't have been an option.


OpenReach often install their wiring on other utilities poles, such as power poles. There will be thousands of examples of this across the country.

It's not the same the other way round.
OpenReach usually don't allow other utilities to share their poles.

There's maybe exceptions to this in specific areas or under certain circumstances but if you see a pole with both power/telecoms then it's almost always the power companies pole.
Standard User dect
(member) Sat 18-May-19 16:39:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
Splitter - on the next pole along:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2vvtkm0.jpg
Note the other telephony equipment on there - it's a crowded pole!
I'm probably wrong but that looks like a track joint (rather than a splitter).
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 18-May-19 18:50:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
But I believe duct and pole sharing IS on the way isnít it ?

Standard User gazzyk1ns
(experienced) Sat 18-May-19 23:26:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by Retron:
I'm assuming the pole is owned by UK Power, rather than Openreach, so putting in a new one "just in case" wouldn't have been an option.


OpenReach often install their wiring on other utilities poles, such as power poles. There will be thousands of examples of this across the country.

It's not the same the other way round.
OpenReach usually don't allow other utilities to share their poles.

There's maybe exceptions to this in specific areas or under certain circumstances but if you see a pole with both power/telecoms then it's almost always the power companies pole.


Yes. Around here, when poles with power at the top start to "die", UKPN literally chainsaw off the shared pole above the OR stuff and leave that for OR to deal with it (if indeed it needs dealing with), erect a new power pole beside the old one, and put their electricity on that. It sounds bizarre but I'll take a picture of a nearby one tomorrow if I remember.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 19-May-19 07:28:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
In our area, SSE have been installing new poles alongside the perfectly serviceable existing shared poles and moved their cables across.
Standard User rclare89
(newbie) Tue 21-May-19 07:57:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Initial Estimate: £10,900.00 + VAT
Confirmed Build Charge: £13,458.00 + VAT

£750 deduction for premises passed, despite the surveyor telling me it was 68 properties passed.
With the voucher works out at £10958 + VAT

Must admit am somewhat on the fence with this, was happy to pay £6-7k, but at this price point might as well get a 100/100 Mb Leased line at £250+VAT a month
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Tue 21-May-19 08:28:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rclare89] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Seems to be a few surveys coming in over the original estimate recently. Did they give a break down of the costings?

A leased line seems better value in the short term, with the leased line starting to become more expensive after around 5 years, but you may find you have native FTTP installed by then, of course you can't know for sure which makes it a hard decision.

Do you have any neighbours that would contribute informally to the costs?

Regards

Phil
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Tue 21-May-19 09:32:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rclare89] [link to this post]
 
Please excuse the thread hijack, but how does one get a leased line if only normal FTTC is available?

Edit: Just found it is available to my house.

If one went with a leased line for a year, does this mean I would have FTTP available and could leave after contract and go onto a standard FTTP package?

Edited by Alucidnation (Tue 21-May-19 13:35:49)

Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 21-May-19 09:50:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
You order it from a provider of your choice who will arrange the delivery with their comms provider, might be BT, might be someone else. Lease lines are not linked to FTTC/FTTP
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 21-May-19 10:53:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Please excuse the thread hijack, but how does one get a leased line if only normal FTTC is available?


Pop in your address at linebroker.co.uk for rough leased line quotes - don't take them as fixed because they are just guide prices, you will need to speak to them for accurate quotes. But as a rule of thumb, the more urban you are, the cheaper the leased line costs.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User rman
(learned) Tue 21-May-19 11:01:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Is 12 port the norm?

They fitted a 4 port for my FTTPoD build, a bit silly on their part but I'm very happy smile
Standard User dect
(member) Tue 21-May-19 11:31:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
They fitted a 4 port for my FTTPoD build, a bit silly on their part but I'm very happy smile
I would think the chosen CBT is sized (e.g. 4, 8, 12) to the number of properties that can be served by a pole. No point putting a 12 port on a pole if only 3 properties can be served by it.
Standard User rclare89
(newbie) Tue 21-May-19 11:44:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Seems to be a few surveys coming in over the original estimate recently. Did they give a break down of the costings?

Yes they did;
A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour: £6,310.00
Stores: £3,555.00
Contract Labour: £0.00
Civils: £4,098.00
Civils Stores: £0.00
Tree cutting: £0.00
BT Connection Charge: £495.00
Deductions:
-£250.00
-£750.00

£13,458.00
Pricing valid for 28 days. Excludes VAT.

In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Do you have any neighbours that would contribute informally to the costs?

Not that I know off, We've recently moved there, I'll ask them, but most of them are non technical and happy with 30-40mbit VDSL
Standard User rclare89
(newbie) Tue 21-May-19 12:22:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rclare89] [link to this post]
 
Interestingly... (all ex vat)
Leased line comes out at £323 / month with £0 install
FTTPoD comes out at £10958 (with the gigabit voucher)

Total Cost (i.e. install + year's service) between the two
FTTPoD starts to be cheaper from year 5
Taking out a 5 Year loan to cover the install

Makes FTTPoD £26 / month cheaper than Leased line (year 1), and £48 / month cheaper (year 2-5), and £245 / month cheaper (year 6 onwards)
This assumes that FTTP prices stay the same, and that Leased Line prices stay the same,
Checking OR's Ethernet pricing (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/loadQQ.do) it's £140 / month for the connection from the Exchange to my house, leaving ~ £90 a month for backhaul and internet access.

So... with a business loan, even with the interest, it's cheaper to just go FTTPoD to the tune of ~ 10% 1st Year
20% 2nd-5th Years
80% thereafter.

Yes I'm taking that risk on the 4th and 5th years that BT might role out open Reach, but as GigaClear won the contract for my area, It seems unlikely to me (given that they very nicely skipped my road)

Thanks for advice all
Standard User Retron
(learned) Tue 21-May-19 12:29:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
No point putting a 12 port on a pole if only 3 properties can be served by it.

Indeed, although it seems they're happy to run cables from the CBT across several poles if needed.

In my case, there are only two properties on "my" pole (by my front garden). There are three more on the pole across the road with the 12-port CBT on it, then more up the road.

Here's the layout in my case - Os are poles, X is where the fibre cable comes up from the ground and Y is where the CBT is. The numbers show how many houses connect to each pole. My pole is at the bottom-right.

3        2        3  
X========O========Y
          \       |
           \      |
         O==O     O
         3  3     2


There are 4 more properties not visibly connected to any pole, presumably via an underground connection somewhere.

At the time, I was given a discount based on 7 properties passed. When the first set of Openreach installers came along, they said they planned to fibre-up the whole street as a result of my order, although as there are only 12 ports for 20 houses some folks will miss out!

Edited by Retron (Tue 21-May-19 12:30:45)

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Tue 21-May-19 15:27:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rclare89] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rclare89:
Interestingly... (all ex vat)
Leased line comes out at £323 / month with £0 install
FTTPoD comes out at £10958 (with the gigabit voucher)

Total Cost (i.e. install + year's service) between the two
FTTPoD starts to be cheaper from year 5
Taking out a 5 Year loan to cover the install

Makes FTTPoD £26 / month cheaper than Leased line (year 1), and £48 / month cheaper (year 2-5), and £245 / month cheaper (year 6 onwards)
This assumes that FTTP prices stay the same, and that Leased Line prices stay the same,
Checking OR's Ethernet pricing (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/loadQQ.do) it's £140 / month for the connection from the Exchange to my house, leaving ~ £90 a month for backhaul and internet access.

So... with a business loan, even with the interest, it's cheaper to just go FTTPoD to the tune of ~ 10% 1st Year
20% 2nd-5th Years
80% thereafter.

Yes I'm taking that risk on the 4th and 5th years that BT might role out open Reach, but as GigaClear won the contract for my area, It seems unlikely to me (given that they very nicely skipped my road)

Thanks for advice all


I've just been in contact with a few brokers.

So far, on a 100/100 connection they are 270+vat/month over three years on a 100Mb bearer.

However, one said the voucher scheme could only be used on the monthly costs, if you had the same speeds but on a Gigabit bearer, which with the voucher brings costs to 285/month +vat.

I may have wrongly assumed the voucher could be used whatever.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Tue 21-May-19 21:28:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Update for my survey, desktop quote was £8300 and confirmed build charge is £7702 (ex VAT prices), this includes the deduction for the survey and a further deduction for properties passed of £950.00. Originally it was only 5 passed but I think that discount includes more properties?

Need to think about it, I should be able to use the voucher scheme for £2500 towards the cost, and it will still work out cheaper than a leased line after a couple of years, but still more than I was hoping.
Standard User dect
(member) Wed 22-May-19 09:03:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
Indeed, although it seems they're happy to run cables from the CBT across several poles if needed.

In my case, there are only two properties on "my" pole (by my front garden). There are three more on the pole across the road with the 12-port CBT on it, then more up the road.

Here's the layout in my case - Os are poles, X is where the fibre cable comes up from the ground and Y is where the CBT is. The numbers show how many houses connect to each pole. My pole is at the bottom-right.

3        2        3  
X========O========Y
          \       |
           \      |
         O==O     O
         3  3     2


There are 4 more properties not visibly connected to any pole, presumably via an underground connection somewhere.

At the time, I was given a discount based on 7 properties passed. When the first set of Openreach installers came along, they said they planned to fibre-up the whole street as a result of my order, although as there are only 12 ports for 20 houses some folks will miss out!
Would be interesting to see what properties (and how many of them) are now showing as FTTP enabled in your road, those that are fed underground may now be enabled by a hidden CBT in a footway box.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 22-May-19 10:37:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
this includes the deduction for the survey and a further deduction for properties passed of £950.00. Originally it was only 5 passed but I think that discount includes more properties?


Yes, that will be 19 properties passed @ £50.
Standard User Deft
(experienced) Wed 22-May-19 12:25:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
So I thought I would join the party.
My desktop quote came back today as: onsite survey required.
Estimated distance to fibre aggregation node 200-399m.

My exchange is Bridge (NDBRI), which according to SamKnows has FTTP in some areas, though I have no idea where.
My FTTC cab is right outside the exchange (moved from EO line to cab many years ago). I'm pretty sure my phone line is underground all the way (though I might take another walk to check - all the houses on my road are 1960s type builds). Straight line distance to exchange is apparently 258m, though my FTTC speeds are about 40/10 - which I think suggests longer or [censored] copper (aluminium?). I'll probably pay for the site survey out of curiosity, but has anyone got any thoughts on likely costs? Would they put fibre underground along the same path as my copper effectively? Could the aggregation node be back at the FTTC cab / exchange?
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-May-19 12:46:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Deft] [link to this post]
 
Hi

It's really hard to second guess the likelyhood of costs as we as customers don't have all the information.

The aggregation node could be anywhere, the exchange distance or the FTTC cabinet location can be completely irrelevant.

For FTTP on Demand Openreach need to run a fibre optic cable all the way from the aggregation node to your property. If you are lucky, the aggregation may happen to be at or very close to your FTTC cab, this means it can follow the same route as you telephone cable which is close to that as well (at the PCP), this can allow reusing the existing overhead and/or underground ducting route.

If the the aggregation node is somewhere else, which is quite likely, a brand new route for that fibre run has to be created, this could mean digging up hundreds of metres of pavement/roads to run the fibre to you.

Regardless of the route, and with properties from the 60s, the telephone cable may be directly buried in the ground, so even if the fibre can follow the same route to you as your telephone cable, it will all need digging up and new ducting laid. If it is in ducting, that ducting may be in poor condition and blocked in many places and can't be used easily.

So us mere mere mortals guessing at a cost just isn't possible, given BT can't even give a desktop quote and require a survey, means we have no chance smile

All you can do is ask for the survey and take a chance.

Regards

Phil
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-May-19 13:02:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Deft] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Deft:
My desktop quote came back today as: onsite survey required.
Estimated distance to fibre aggregation node 200-399m.
Straight line distance to exchange is apparently 258m


If the distance to agg node estimate is accurate ( from the above info it might be the agg node is located just outside the exchange) and its a relatively simple route, then expect build costs to be less than £10k, or if you're lucky, less than £5k. But of course you need a survey done to get this confirmed.

Openreach will always try to make use of their existing u/g or a/g infrastructure first, so you may find the fibre is laid along the same copper route, partially at least.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Retron
(learned) Wed 22-May-19 17:56:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by Retron:
3        2        3  
X========O========Y
          \       |
           \      |
         O==O     O
         3  3     2


There are 4 more properties not visibly connected to any pole, presumably via an underground connection somewhere.

At the time, I was given a discount based on 7 properties passed. When the first set of Openreach installers came along, they said they planned to fibre-up the whole street as a result of my order, although as there are only 12 ports for 20 houses some folks will miss out!
Would be interesting to see what properties (and how many of them) are now showing as FTTP enabled in your road, those that are fed underground may now be enabled by a hidden CBT in a footway box.

There is a BT manhole cover outside the three new houses not shown on my diagram and you could well be right - they all show as having 1000/220 FTTPoD available.

There are only a couple of houses along my road which still show 330/30 FTTPoD, including one unlucky property halfway along and a couple of names which don't seem to exist any more - I'm guessing they still show up on the Post Office address list.

Anyway, of the 20 houses on my road, all but 2 are showing as 1000/220. Either it's a case of first come first served, or there is indeed a hidden CBT further up the road.

Incidentally none are yet showing FTTP as available, just FTTPoD. The change is that most are now showing 1000/220 rather than 330/30.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-May-19 18:11:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
Incidentally none are yet showing FTTP as available, just FTTPoD. The change is that most are now showing 1000/220 rather than 330/30.


Considering BT Wholesale don't sell anything above 330/30 on FTTPoD at present, I wouldn't read too much into FTTPoD 1000/220 visbility on the DSL checker, ie its likely to be an error. Once FTTPoD changes to WBC FTTP - 330/50 or above - that is the time for your neighbours to get excited smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 22-May-19 18:13:34)

Standard User Deft
(experienced) Wed 22-May-19 18:32:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I think I'll go for the full quote and see what happens. I really don't need FTTP but I do kinda want it. I'd like to be a trend setter in the village too.
Edit to say, site survey ordered - wish me luck!

Edited by Deft (Wed 22-May-19 18:54:23)

Standard User E300
(newbie) Wed 22-May-19 19:11:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Yes, that will be 19 properties passed @ £50.


Thanks for the info, so its gone from 5 properties (including mine) that are newer builds with underground cable at the end of the road fed from the same manhole cover, to 19 properties, which must include 14 that are overhead pole fed then. This might explain the pre-planning notice for 3 new telegraph poles.

So great that I get an additional discount for more properties passed, but then is my build cost including the additional cost for those 14 extra properties? It's a shame we don't get a better breakdown of the costs as I can't shake the feeling I'm paying for those extra poles and labour to erect them as otherwise why discount me for the extra work?
Standard User craski
(committed) Wed 22-May-19 21:02:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Running out of bandwidth at peak periods on the FTTC connections so I decided to get desktop quote for FTTPoD. I did have a quote under the old system at a different premises but this is the first time under new system.

Ag node estimated to be at 800 - 999m away.
Estimated Build Cost: £27,000.00 ex VAT

I had hoped the ag node would be closer but at these sort of prices I guess Iíll be sticking with FTTC!

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-May-19 12:37:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Just got my desktop quote from cerberus after nearly 8 weeks waiting, and the quote from open reach isn't IMO at all credible @ Estimated Build Cost: £27,800.00 ex VAT and says that Number of premises passed for FTTP: 14
Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 600 - 799m. The distance to the aggregation node ,
Which does not compute , and i can using google maps use the distance measuring tool and regardless of direction it is no where near 600mtrs on 14 properties passed in any direction

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 23-May-19 12:50:59)

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 23-May-19 12:51:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Wow!

That is astonishing.
Standard User McShaneDCFC
(newbie) Thu 23-May-19 12:57:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Got my desktop quote back from open reach

Estimated Build Cost: £9,000.00 ex VAT

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 3

Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 0 - 199m. The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-May-19 13:23:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Do you know exactly where the agg node is then? Also, the 14 properties could be some on the way to the agg node and some beyond it (ie your house might be towards the middle of a group of properties that would be served by your local distribution point). Are you saying that aren't 14 properties relatively near you that might be served if they put a distribution point in that could also serve you? The distribution point won't necessarily be close to your house - just depends on where Openreach think would be most efficient to server the locality.
Standard User brookheather
(member) Thu 23-May-19 13:25:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
Just got my desktop quote from cerberus after nearly 8 weeks waiting, and the quote from open reach isn't IMO at all credible @ Estimated Build Cost: £27,800.00 ex VAT and says that Number of premises passed for FTTP: 14
Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 600 - 799m. The distance to the aggregation node ,
Which does not compute , and i can using google maps use the distance measuring tool and regardless of direction it is no where near 600mtrs on 14 properties passed in any direction

How do you know where your aggregation node is located? The properties passed means how many neighbours would be served from the same CBT installed for your FTTP service not how many properties are between you and the agg node.

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + Asus RT-AC67U AiMesh
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 23-May-19 13:55:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by tommy45:
Just got my desktop quote from cerberus after nearly 8 weeks waiting, and the quote from open reach isn't IMO at all credible @ Estimated Build Cost: £27,800.00 ex VAT and says that Number of premises passed for FTTP: 14
Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 600 - 799m. The distance to the aggregation node ,
Which does not compute , and i can using google maps use the distance measuring tool and regardless of direction it is no where near 600mtrs on 14 properties passed in any direction


Unless you know the exact location of the aggregation node, and it can be anywhere and may be no where near your FTTC cabinet, so you can't really jump to any conclusions.

Also whilst the distance plays a factor, the costs are a more complicated equation where we don't know all the facts. If the aggregation node is the opposite direction of your telephone wire, they need to get the fibre from the aggregation node to somewhere it can join the same route as your telephone wire. It's a bit like how sometimes to join the motorway we end up driving back in the opposite direction to the nearest slip road to join it, adding distance.

The only option you have is if you think it's wrong is to pay the price for a full survey and be prepared to lose it.

Regards

Phil
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-May-19 15:07:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
But the number of properties they claim it would pass 14 , in any direction from my home (there are only 2 BTW) left or right, and my cabinet is 350mtrs up the road, if i turn left, and that passes more than 14 properties , if i turn right i could cross go straight ahead at the jnc or turn left or right, again it would exceed 14 properties they claim it would pass by a big margin, So their estimate is based on fiction a distance and figure plucked out of thin air,As for my nearest node I recall seeing what i looks like a ag node in a foodway chamber on the opposite side of the road , this was when they was installing FTTC cabs in the area it was definitely fibre had lots of those round discs where they feed the fibres into
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-May-19 15:31:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
As for my nearest node I recall seeing what i looks like a ag node in a foodway chamber on the opposite side of the road , this was when they was installing FTTC cabs in the area it was definitely fibre had lots of those round discs where they feed the fibres into

That could easily be a fibre splitter node. Unless someone from Openreach has already showed you, you cannot be sure where your nearest agg node is.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 23-May-19 17:15:07)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 23-May-19 16:15:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by tommy45:
But the number of properties they claim it would pass 14 , in any direction from my home (there are only 2 BTW) left or right, and my cabinet is 350mtrs up the road, if i turn left, and that passes more than 14 properties , if i turn right i could cross go straight ahead at the jnc or turn left or right, again it would exceed 14 properties they claim it would pass by a big margin, So their estimate is based on fiction a distance and figure plucked out of thin air,As for my nearest node I recall seeing what i looks like a ag node in a foodway chamber on the opposite side of the road , this was when they was installing FTTC cabs in the area it was definitely fibre had lots of those round discs where they feed the fibres into


We can't second guess anything as we don't have enough information as consumers. The aggregation node is likely not where you think it is, so where it needs to run allows them to offer the connection to 14 properties based on the desktop quote. They don't necessarily enable a whole street, it may only be a section of the road that gets enabled (or passed), it all depends on what is happening above and/or below ground.

Properties passed also doesn't mean properties the cable physically passes by, it means additional properties that can be connected up at the same time without much additional work.

The desktop survey may be wrong and certainly is inaccurate, it's only an estimate after all. It doesn't matter what you think the distances are or routes involved, its what Openreach know and do that makes up the cost, and based on their records for the quick free estimate they've given you a figure that is on the high side.

The only way you can get an accurate figure is to pay for a survey and after that it may come down in price. They may come out and find their records were incorrect and you were right, and it drops considerably in price, they may not. No one here can know for sure.

If you really think it is wrong and can't be that expensive, then go for a full survey.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Thu 23-May-19 16:19:42)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-May-19 16:38:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
In our area, SSE have been installing new poles alongside the perfectly serviceable existing shared poles and moved their cables across.

*I suspect* that there are some changes with regards to joint user poles on the way shortly

... and posts like yours seem to bear this out too.

Standard User donkay
(newbie) Thu 23-May-19 16:47:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by donkay:
Hi all

After about 18 months of indecision and reading these various threads, I've taken the plunge on an FTTPoD survey from Cerberus @ £250+vat

All areas of Cardiff bar the north east are getting native FTTP and yes I live in the NE, see https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-fi...

After some email were exchanged between myself and Matt Sharpe (Infrastructure Solutions Executive Complaints) @ Openreach, he confirmed NE Cardiff wasn't in the pipeline anytime soon for FTTP.

I upgraded my current line to g.fast a few months ago but the reliability of speed is poor. I have had 2 OR engineers visit and they can't solve the issue. I am ment to get 200/20 but regularly get 60/20 and even 20/20!

Anyway, I'm looking forward to finding out the news on the actual build cost. My desktop survey was £8800. A quarter of this figure would be doable, hopeful I know but it's more the not knowing that has been irking me!

Will keep you all updated


UPDATE

OR surveyor just left. Lovely chap called Steve.

He reckons very straight forward install. 80m from agg node to pole, clear ducts all the way in a straight line.

He also thinks that the number of premises past are those served by the splitter node not those you share the pole with. Sounds wrong to me but that's what he's putting in his report. Approx 25 properties according to him, desktop quote said more like 6.

Waiting now for the full quote to come back, still hopeful of significant reduction in £8800 desktop quote.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 23-May-19 17:35:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
But the number of properties they claim it would pass 14


No. "Properties passed" is a technical term, which means "properties which will be able to take FTTP service".

In order to provide service to your property, they will install a fibre distribution point (CBT = Connectorised Block Terminal), usually on a pole or in an underground chamber. They are saying that 14 properties will be served from this point, so 13 of your neighbours will also get the opportunity to take FTTP if they want it.

The fibre cable from the aggregation node to the CBT could go past a hundred other properties, but none of them will be able to take FTTP service (you can't just break into a fibre cable) - so they don't count as "properties passed".
Standard User techno_gadget
(newbie) Thu 23-May-19 18:27:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi Guys,

I took the gamble and asked for a survey, as recently our house builder has started to finish the rest of houses beside us, and these have been fibre enabled (<38 houses, and approx 100m away).


Desktop quote : £17.5k

Labour.............................£5,744.00
Contract Labour..............£0.00
Civils............................... £750.00
Stores............................. £3,582.00
Civils Stores.....................£0.00
Tree cutting.....................£0.00
BT Connection Charge £495.00

Deductions....................-£250.00(Survey charge already paid)
......................................-£900.00 (Premises Passed)
TOTAL : £9,421.00


So approx 50% reduction from the desktop survey.
The thing that I do not get is a Openreach engineer told me that where the AggNode was, and its only around 7meters away from my house, so I would have thought the quote would be much less.....but obviously not!!
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-May-19 18:44:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: techno_gadget] [link to this post]
 
Maybe the person you spoke to, or possibly you, didnít quite understand when speaking about the aggregation node ?

Standard User GonePostal
(member) Thu 23-May-19 18:52:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Maybe the person you spoke to, or possibly you, didnít quite understand when speaking about the aggregation node ?


Or the person preparing the quote?
Standard User techno_gadget
(newbie) Thu 23-May-19 18:54:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

No I understand the difference, the Openreach engineer was fairly new to the job, so I suspect it was the normal payment chamber node where the telephones lines was.........

Ahh well, never mind, hopefully Openreach decide to fibre up the rest of my street, now they have done the house just past mine.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 23-May-19 19:16:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: techno_gadget] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techno_gadget:
The thing that I do not get is a Openreach engineer told me that where the AggNode was, and its only around 7meters away from my house, so I would have thought the quote would be much less.....but obviously not!!


It's possible that's where your *splitter* node is being located, and it will be connected to a fibre aggregation node some distance away.

I got something similar: I asked the original surveyor where the aggregation node was and he said "he'd put a new one nearby". In fact the new splitter is going to be nearby. Later I spoke to another engineer with maps in his hand, who showed me the aggregation node just over 1km away.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-May-19 20:38:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
He is wrong about the properties passed being all those served by the splitter ...

Clearly nonsense.

Standard User techno_gadget
(newbie) Fri 24-May-19 08:40:24
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
He is wrong about the properties passed being all those served by the splitter ...

Clearly nonsense.


If you mean my discount I listed as premises passed maybe so, as Cerberus did not say it was for premises passed, I just assumed it was..as it only said discount on my quote.


Doesnít really matter though, there is no need to be so rude, treat the Internet forums as you would treat talking to someone in real life!
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-May-19 09:08:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: techno_gadget] [link to this post]
 
He wasn't rude to you in the slightest.

He's an OpenReach engineer and he simply told you his colleague was wrong and talking nonsense.

I'm not convinced the extra work (and cost to you) to enable every property on the splitter node would be covered by the measly £50 per property discount you will receive.
If I were you I would hope the surveyor's mistake is spotted as it could cost you.
Standard User techno_gadget
(newbie) Fri 24-May-19 10:34:54
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
He wasn't rude to you in the slightest.

He's an OpenReach engineer and he simply told you his colleague was wrong and talking nonsense.

I'm not convinced the extra work (and cost to you) to enable every property on the splitter node would be covered by the measly £50 per property discount you will receive.
If I were you I would hope the surveyor's mistake is spotted as it could cost you.


I was not sure who the nonsense comment was made to, though I do think itís a little rude still, but it does not matter.

I am not going ahead with the order, a little two expensive for me!, only hope at some point over the next few years they install native fiber smile

To be honest I was not sure
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sat 25-May-19 06:37:20
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
What does the internal termination equipment look like at the moment?

I have slight space issues so could do with working out where it should go, if i decide to order.

smile
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sat 25-May-19 09:25:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
I can't seem to find the online leaflet however here's a picture which can give you a rough idea as you can see a master socket in the corner of the image.

https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/FTTP_ONT.jpg
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sat 25-May-19 14:20:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

Never thought of looking there!

Anyway, that looks mahoosive.

I guess thatís the one with the battery back in the case?

I read somewhere that they were no longer supplying them with batteries but I could be wrong.
Standard User dect
(member) Sat 25-May-19 14:30:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Here are the dimensions in mm (H x W x D)

Enclosure - 252.4 x 215 x 39.5

The enclosure has space for the following

ONT - 134 x 115 x 25
BBU - 150 x 80 x 25
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sat 25-May-19 15:11:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
Here are the dimensions in mm (H x W x D)

Enclosure - 252.4 x 215 x 39.5

The enclosure has space for the following

ONT - 134 x 115 x 25
BBU - 150 x 80 x 25


Thanks for that.

smile
Standard User Retron
(learned) Sat 25-May-19 17:20:02
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Considering BT Wholesale don't sell anything above 330/30 on FTTPoD at present, I wouldn't read too much into FTTPoD 1000/220 visbility on the DSL checker, ie its likely to be an error. Once FTTPoD changes to WBC FTTP - 330/50 or above - that is the time for your neighbours to get excited smile

Aha - I was using it as a proxy, as it at least meant the database entry had been updated.

It looks like there have been more updates today.

My line has changed to:

WBC FTTP
Upto 1000
Upto 220
--
Available
1 Stage

and

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

Checking the rest of the street via the address checker shows a mixed picture.

The properties that didn't update to the (presently fictional) 1000/220 FTTPoD remain as having 330/30 FTTPoD as available.

My neighbour who is on the same pole as me, who has a different postcode and street address, as well as 3 houses across the road are listed as having FTTP. Two more houses on my side of the road also have it, but my immediate neighbour to the south has reverted back to FTTPoD 330/30 - I suspect that's because their house is relatively new and perhaps the address system hasn't caught up. It's fed from the same pole as two other FTTP properties though, so it seems like an error to me. I don't envy them when they try and get FTTP service!

The quote said 7 properties would be passed. There are exactly 6, aside from me, who now have FTTP for free. There are two properties connected to the same pole (across the road) who are just showing 330/30 FoD, so given that there's a 12-port connector installed I'd hope they'll also be able to connect in due course...

Anyway, my FTTPoD story is nearly at an end. I'm awaiting a phone call to arrange an engineer appointment, then the end is in sight!

Edited by Retron (Sat 25-May-19 18:55:38)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sat 25-May-19 20:59:17
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
They were still supplying them with BBU's as of over a month ago when I had mine installed. I don't think there's been an exact end date set in stone yet. It will be unfortunate when that stops, but there are of course other means to keep a 12v (I think it's 12v DC) device running these days. You don't need a big UPS device either. iPower DC (from PowerInspired), for example, may work.

Edited by Ixel (Sat 25-May-19 21:01:05)

Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sat 25-May-19 21:07:04
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
They were still supplying them with BBU's as of over a month ago when I had mine installed. I don't think there's been an exact end date set in stone yet. It will be unfortunate when that stops, but there are of course other means to keep a 12v (I think it's 12v DC) device running these days. You don't need a big UPS device either. iPower DC (from PowerInspired), for example, may work.


Ok thanks.

From what I understood, the bbu was to keep the phone side alive in the event of a power cut?

I am trying to find the article now but itís disappeared!
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sat 25-May-19 21:55:20
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
That's correct, although it will keep the network connection running so if you have a laptop and a router on a UPS then it's handy (for example). I believe it can run for up to an hour.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 25-May-19 22:30:08
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
That's correct, although it will keep the network connection running so if you have a laptop and a router on a UPS then it's handy (for example). I believe it can run for up to an hour.

In the event of a power cut the LAN ports on the ONT are automatically disabled, the BBU is only used to supply power to the voice port (FVA). I guess you could keep the ONT plugged into a ups to keep the lan ports active.

Since FTTPoD is sold as a Ďdata onlyí service, it made no sense for me to use a bbu hence I politely refused one. I have the older 4 port ONT installed, and it only measures around 20x15cm. Openreach Engineers still carry 4 port ONTs in their vans, down to pot luck whether they have a spare one lying around on the day of the install.

4 port ONT for my install:
https://postimg.cc/YGR0R28S

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sat 25-May-19 22:47:28)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sun 26-May-19 00:26:28
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Ah, I assumed it powered the entire device, that's unfortunate then. Pointless me running a BBU in that case.

Edited by Ixel (Sun 26-May-19 00:26:57)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 26-May-19 01:00:24
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
If you ran your own BBU then that would power the whole device. The OR one was only there to guarantee the 999 service worked.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up. BQM
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 26-May-19 06:21:18
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Finally found the article...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/10/openre...

Seems they are only stopping them by default in FTTP only areas.

Edited by Alucidnation (Sun 26-May-19 06:24:21)

Standard User Chipmunk77
(newbie) Sun 26-May-19 19:24:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Ah, I assumed it powered the entire device, that's unfortunate then. Pointless me running a BBU in that case.


Indeed.

Even sillier for me: they didn't link up the fibre voice port at all, they just connected my phone to regular copper ...so the battery backup does absolutely nothing at all.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User rman
(learned) Wed 29-May-19 11:51:20
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Chipmunk77] [link to this post]
 
Nope I believe you're all wrong about the battery backup only supporting the phone connection.

I have the battery backup and when installating a new plug socket next to the ONT our internet was running for an hour on the battery.

Maybe if you have a phone plugged in i will only support that port.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-May-19 13:31:11
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
Nope I believe you're all wrong about the battery backup only supporting the phone connection.

I have the battery backup and when installating a new plug socket next to the ONT our internet was running for an hour on the battery.

Maybe if you have a phone plugged in i will only support that port.

Perhaps you have the newer single port ONT on which both the data & voice ports can now use bbu power? I know on the older 4 port ONT (which I have) the LAN ports definitely become inactive during a power cut, this is mentioned in the Openreach developer manual. I will try to dig out the manual for it.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 29-May-19 13:53:52)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 29-May-19 14:16:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, if this is true regarding the 1+1 ONT (the LAN connection remains powered) where as the 4+2 ONT is the opposite then brilliant for me as I'm connected via a 1+1 ONT. I could understand the 4+2 ONT disabling the LAN ports to conserve power.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 30-May-19 13:45:35
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Is it that crucial that the ONT stays powered up 24/7 then?
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 30-May-19 13:59:15
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Is it that crucial that the ONT stays powered up 24/7 then?


It's not like xDSL where turning it on and off can cause dynamic line issues so no problem turning it on and off, however the backup battery is for when the customer doesn't have a traditional phone line but a VoIP line, so in the event of a power cut their phone still works like a traditional land line would. However this assumes the customer has a wired phone, as any type of DECT cordless phone typically has no back up power so in a power cut the DECT cordless is dead so you couldn't make a 999 call anyway. it is for this reason Openreach are arguing for a change in the rules, at the moment I think the rules are they have to provide a line that can be used in an emergency as part of their telecoms licence.

Regards

Phil
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-May-19 14:06:47
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Is it that crucial that the ONT stays powered up 24/7 then?

Yes best to leave it on continuously unless youíre away on holiday or something. As for ďcrucialĒ, it depends if you stand to lose financially eg operate a business where online connectivity is a must 24/7 in which case it makes sense using a UPS. Though many businesses will use a fibre leased line d/t better SLAs, ie any line issues can be fixed in a matter of hours rather than days/weeks as is the case with residential or small business Openreach connections.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 30-May-19 14:08:17)

Standard User Garlic
(member) Thu 30-May-19 14:55:29
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Interesting, if this is true regarding the 1+1 ONT (the LAN connection remains powered) where as the 4+2 ONT is the opposite then brilliant for me as I'm connected via a 1+1 ONT. I could understand the 4+2 ONT disabling the LAN ports to conserve power.


Def powers the ont. A family member turned their 'phone charger off' on the plug next to my ont and pressed the wrong switch. it was only >1hr later the internet died.

-----------
FTTP 80/20
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 30-May-19 15:09:12
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Is it that crucial that the ONT stays powered up 24/7 then?


It's not like xDSL where turning it on and off can cause dynamic line issues so no problem turning it on and off, however the backup battery is for when the customer doesn't have a traditional phone line but a VoIP line, so in the event of a power cut their phone still works like a traditional land line would. However this assumes the customer has a wired phone, as any type of DECT cordless phone typically has no back up power so in a power cut the DECT cordless is dead so you couldn't make a 999 call anyway. it is for this reason Openreach are arguing for a change in the rules, at the moment I think the rules are they have to provide a line that can be used in an emergency as part of their telecoms licence.

Regards

Phil


Thanks.

With FTTP (oD), does one have to have a phone line?

Not that i'm thinking VOIP as there are numerous mobiles in the house so there really isnt any need for a traditional line as such.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-May-19 15:35:54
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
With FTTP (oD), does one have to have a phone line?

Not that i'm thinking VOIP as there are numerous mobiles in the house so there really isnt any need for a traditional line as such.


No. It's entirely up to you.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 30-May-19 17:29:47
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
Good to know.

---

In regards to another post querying about FTTPoD needing a phone line, no it's optional. Personally I use VoIP, even though I have mobile phones which are connected to a 'local' phone number (not a mobile phone number).
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-May-19 18:25:51
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
In regards to another post querying about FTTPoD needing a phone line, no it's optional.

Not an option since FTTPoD is sold as data only. However not a big deal as you can either continue the existing voice over copper service or cease copper completely and transfer the number to a VOIP service which will cost you just a fraction eg Vonage.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Thu 30-May-19 21:01:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Retron
Some years back there was a 'competition' within BT for the in-house magazine to find the oldest Poles still in use. There were quite a few spotted over 80 years old and one that was over 90 ( and still climbable!). I think one of our local poles is coming up to 80 but can't find a date on it, some have a date burnt in, it has what I was told is a 1930s spike on the top.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 31-May-19 10:57:37
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Maybe I explained it wrong, but I meant that FTTPoD doesn't need a phone line. I am aware that it's data only.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 31-May-19 12:05:09
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Apologies for the misunderstanding frown

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Fri 31-May-19 22:23:47
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Original timeline...

So... Where am I now:
Timeline:
2/10/18 - Requested desktop survey (Cerberus)
18/10/18 - Desktop survey £15,600.00 (ex. VAT)
23/10/18 - Full survey requested
25/1/19 - Quote received: £6,838.37 (+ VAT)
31/5/19 - Waiting for 2 blockages to be cleared. Allegedly happened this week.

My updates from Cerberus are [censored] - each email promises an update on Thursday and sometimes I get an update on Fridays.

In all honesty - I'm completely unenamoured with the wait & wish I'd never started the process.
Standard User dect
(member) Sat 01-Jun-19 08:16:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
In all honesty - I'm completely unenamoured with the wait & wish I'd never started the process.
Try to stay positive, the waiting may be difficult now but it will be worth it once the work is fully complete and you've got fttp
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 01-Jun-19 10:46:21
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
Yours seems to be moving along much quicker than most smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Mon 03-Jun-19 08:49:47
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
For me it's the continual slippages (beyond Cerberus' control) but the complete disregard for their own policies.

On every email they put when to expect the next update - and then miss their own imposed deadline every single time.

When challenged they state that BT provides updates late in the day so I might not get my update until another time.

My response of why don't you move your update schedule is simply ignored.

In all honesty the moment I paid the invoice & sales were no longer involved is when everything just went to the "can't be bothered" pile.

I know it'll eventually get installed & @ that point I'm just ticking the time down until contract is up!
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 03-Jun-19 09:24:23
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
For me it's the continual slippages (beyond Cerberus' control) but the complete disregard for their own policies.


I think you're being unfair.

For my order, they aim for a Thursday update but often it slips to Friday because OpenReach provides the information late. I don't see that as a big deal. If they moved the customer updates to Friday then often they would be delayed unnecessarily. Their policy is that they provide the update shortly after it's received, which I think makes sense.

When you're dealing with a dinosaur like OpenReach, who in turn are dealing with large private construction companies, you do need a big dose of patience. I should know - I'm a week shy of 15 months and still a long way from completion!
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Mon 03-Jun-19 10:19:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
I think you're being unfair.


If you wish to retain credibility with your customers, you have a policy and you stick to it. If you have a policy then ignore it, you run the risk that your customers or potential customers start wondering about the validity of the other promises you have made or policies that you say will apply. If you cannot back up your laid down policy with actions that fulfil that policy, you have to re-align your policy to what you can achieve not hand off the blame to someone else in the chain. Your customers are not interested in your problems; they are only concerned about their own problems.
Standard User dect
(member) Mon 03-Jun-19 16:05:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
When you're dealing with a dinosaur like OpenReach
I've said on here many times that I'm ex-BT and in my business unit we always had the policy to set realistic expectations and not to promise timescales we couldn't deliver, we always tried to be honest and our largely business customers appreciated the honesty and for the majority of them we delivered on time.

Having said all that I can't speak for other business units at that time or any nowadays.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 03-Jun-19 22:11:45
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
With FTTPoD there is no committed date, so there's no promise to break. (Aside: I don't know if it's Openreach or Cerberus who are sitting on the cash that was paid up-front).

With a little bit of common sense, Openreach could have done a lot better than they have for me. All they needed to do was to prove and rope up the *whole route* at the start, make a list of problems which needed fixing, and fix them all in successive weeks.

Instead what they did was come to a complete stop as soon as one problem was found, then organise fixing it (this can take 3-6 months). Then they stop at the next problem, organise fixing it (another 3-6 months), and so on. I'm on around the fourth cycle of this now.
Standard User dect
(member) Mon 03-Jun-19 22:35:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
what they did was come to a complete stop as soon as one problem was found, then organise fixing it (this can take 3-6 months). Then they stop at the next problem, organise fixing it (another 3-6 months), and so on. I'm on around the fourth cycle of this now.
When you explain it like that it doesn't sound good.

For project work we always sent in an experienced member of the team who would go through everything from beginning to end to identify issues which we would then tackle first as a priority and that seemed to work for us and prevented delays.
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 13:38:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Well, that prompted more responses than I expected.

OK, my issue is not with BT/ Timescales - I understand that.

My issue is that throughout the ordering process Cerberus were excellent. Incredibly responsive and diligent in their answers (it was actually them that pointed me over here). It was very much a case that I'd ask a question, get not only that answer but also the answer to my likely follow-up question.

I found this incredibly reassuring as it meant they'd done this before.

Then I paid the full invoice and get handed off to the admin team, this is where my issues are.

Every email has a tagline telling me when my next update is, they miss this pretty much every single week.

When challenged they state it's because they receive the BT updates late in the day, I understand that, so why not move your update to the subsequent day = no response.

Key events are not updated (in my case the survey & blockage clearance) I tend to have more knowledge of or they don't make any contact.

I have several boxes that will be relocated once the service goes live, this takes planning to ensure there's no interruption and I have to give notice to the current DC so need some certainty.

If I operated my business in the same way I'd have a lot less customers, the main reason for the frustration is that it's a pretty easy fix:

Do what you say you will, when you say you will. Follow up at key points.

Project management 101....
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 14:13:18
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Yes they should do what they say they will, if a company raises expectations then dashes them its not good.

I've seen here it has taken some people a year or more to achieve a working connection, surely there must be a strong argument for cancelling the contract? The customer has paid up front in good faith then a year later they may still be waiting for the service, that's not on, or at least they should be offered some compensation for the delays.

I know it isn't Cerberus fault, but then they need to cancel with Openreach for breach of contract, it might make Openreach move a bit faster and be a bit more organised if they were facing cancelled contracts and having to refund after they had incurred expenses.

Regards

Phil
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 05-Jun-19 15:18:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I've seen here it has taken some people a year or more to achieve a working connection, surely there must be a strong argument for cancelling the contract? The customer has paid up front in good faith then a year later they may still be waiting for the service, that's not on, or at least they should be offered some compensation for the delays.

I know it isn't Cerberus fault, but then they need to cancel with Openreach for breach of contract, it might make Openreach move a bit faster and be a bit more organised if they were facing cancelled contracts and having to refund after they had incurred expenses.


I couldn't disagree more

What's the breach of contract?

It's a bespoke product, planned and built specifically for the individual ordering.
It's sold with no fixed dates.

Certainly the enquiry I made to Cerberus came with a very detailed reply.
They made of point of telling me the ordering process can be very long and tedious, despite me not enquiring about how long it would take.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 16:11:58
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Well the breach of contract is not supplying the service you have paid for. How long do you carry on waiting, 12 months, 18 months, 2 years? Services have to be supplied in a reasonable amount of time, you can't just have something open ended with no right to enforce the contract or cancel it. Yes people are told it can be a long process, and how long is too long is down to the person/company who made the order and the legal system to decide if it was ever taken that far.

Openreach have to pay compensation when delays happen in various parts of their network in the supply of services, but FTTP on Demand seems to have bypassed any rational SLA for time to live.

I can't think of any other examples where you are expected to pay thousands or tens of thousands of pounds for a service UP FRONT in full, with absolutely no requirement for the supplier to supply it at any time in the future, because they can delay the supply as long as they like for whatever reason without you being able to cancel the contract. I'm pretty sure that isn't legal and could legitimately be challenged.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Wed 05-Jun-19 16:18:48)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 16:48:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Well the breach of contract is not supplying the service you have paid for. How long do you carry on waiting, 12 months, 18 months, 2 years?

You wait however long it takes, whether its 4 months or four 2 years. It may come as a shock to you but install times of 2+ years were the norm when FTTPoD first came out around 2013. These lead times have been slashed massively in recent years, my own install took less than 4 months. However I was prepared to wait for longer if necessary. If you're of the impatient type, then FTTPoD isn't for you. Simples.

Btw majority of delays to FTTPoD installs are out of Openreach's control such as road closures which can only be done at certain times of the year (eg if outside a school) according to local council rules/regulations.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 05-Jun-19 17:28:18)

Standard User Disca
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 16:55:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Just adding my quote so someone can update the spreadsheet with pricing etc.
8/2/2019 Desktop survey requested
21/2/2019 Desktop survey received for £22300 ex VAT
21/2/2019 Survey fee paid
BT guy turned up maybe 2 weeks after the survey requested, only saw him once. Dont think he lifted many hatches in the road - 2 or 3 maximum from what I could see.
29/5/2019 Final build quote received for £9863.00 ex VAT of which :-

£6310 Labour
£3758 Stores
£750 Civils
£495 Connection Charge
-£250 Survey
-£1200 for properties passed [email protected] £50 and mine at £750
£9863 + VAT

Can claim the government £2500 grant so total will end up being £7363 ex VAT.

I'm 800-1000m away from the distribution point according to the orig estimate.

Have paid for it today 5/6/2019, will update when its live.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 17:06:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Btw majority of delays to FTTPoD installs are out of Openreach's control such as road closures which can only be done at certain times of the year (eg if outside a school) according to local council rules/regulations.


That doesn't matter under the law, you can't blame someone else.

No, you don't have to wait as long as it takes, that is the whole point of what I'm saying, of course you can if you like, but.. If you say got to 2 years of waiting with no guarantees in sight, you can take legal action to cancel the contract, that is a legal right. Or have you just changed the law by yourself?

There is the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 to help protect businesses and of course the Sales to Consumer act if ordered as an individual. I don't know what would be deemed as too long or what would be awarded as compensation, that would need to be decided by the legal system the first time someone sues for breach of contract for non-supply of FTTP on Demand.

You can't post here and change the law. All I'm pointing out is Cerberus or whoever the supplier is can't expect someone to wait for ever, at some point, a legal challenge is perfectly acceptable by a customer that could see a decision made on what is too long. A person or company has a legal right to challenge the contract for breach of. Simple as.

Regards

Phil
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Wed 05-Jun-19 17:13:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Well the breach of contract is not supplying the service you have paid for. How long do you carry on waiting, 12 months, 18 months, 2 years?

You wait however long it takes, whether its 4 months or 4 years. It may come as a shock to you but install times of 2+ years were the norm when FTTPoD first came out around 2013. These lead times have been slashed massively in recent years, my own install took less than 4 months. However I was prepared to wait for longer if necessary. If you're of the impatient type, then FTTPoD isn't for you. Simples.

Btw majority of delays to FTTPoD installs are out of Openreach's control such as road closures which can only be done at certain times of the year (eg if outside a school) according to local council rules/regulations.


That really does miss all of the elements involved in unfair contract terms, doesn't it. For example look at the para 1.9 of the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance published by the OFt (online at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/.... This reads:

" . . . .A disclaimer covering problems caused by a trader's suppliers or subcontractors is regarded in the same way as one covering loss or damage caused directly by his own fault. The consumer has no choice as to whom they are, and has no contractual rights against them. The business has chosen to enter agreements with them, and therefore should not seek to disclaim responsibility for their defaults."

I am no lawyer but I have to say that the man on the Clapham omnibus would see PhilipD's comments as perfectly reasonable and the basis on which the law should be applied.

Edit: PhilipD made a second equally valid contribution while I was typing.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 17:21:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
But FTTPoD is sold without time guarantees (SLA) so if you're not prepared to wait for a reasonable amount of time - say up to 2 years - then you don't sign up for it. It really couldn't be simpler. The poster complaining about weekly updates has only waited for 8 months or so. That's right, 8 months. Hardly an excessive time frame.

At the same I realise no-can wait forever, so if for example after 3 years there wasn't an end in sight then I'm sure Openreach would refund you. Openreach's planners aren't stupid and know all too well they can't take someone's money and just not complete the order. I've yet to hear of a case where Openreach failed to fulfill a FTTPoD order but happy for you to prove me wrong.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 05-Jun-19 17:37:14)

Standard User GonePostal
(member) Wed 05-Jun-19 18:05:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
But FTTPoD is sold without time guarantees (SLA) so if you're not prepared to wait for a reasonable amount of time - say up to 2 years - then you don't sign up for it. It really couldn't be simpler.


So why have you decided that 2 years is a reasonable time? Other people may take a different view. If you read further into the document I linked in my last post, you will see that just because a seller specifically tries to circumvent what others would see as reasonable by making stipulations about what they will so or not do, that does not exclude them from action if such stipulations are unreasonable in the eyes of the law.

As usual "simples" will drive you to an untenable but at face value appealing answer that is more often than not wrong.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 18:26:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
So why have you decided that 2 years is a reasonable time?


1) We're talking about FTTP, not getting a pair of made-to-measure curtains made.

2) When FTTPoD was first released, build times of >2 years were the norm. In fact some CPs - such as AAISP and Gradwell - stopped selling FTTPoD publicly as the install times were far too long.

3) When FTTP is built commercially, the planning & execution phase often takes years. So its perfectly reasonable having to wait up to 2 years for FTTPoD.

If someone took Openreach to court tomorrow saying for example, their 12 month wait for FTTPoD was too long, Openreach would simply refer to time frames of all their completed installs and the case would quickly be thrown out of court. Building a FTTP/FTTPoD network is often a long & time consuming process, anyone who thinks all FTTPoD builds can be completed in a matter of weeks or months clearly doesn't understand FTTP very well.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 05-Jun-19 18:45:08)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 18:45:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
If someone took Openreach to court tomorrow saying for example, their 12 month wait for FTTPoD was too long, Openreach would simply refer to time frames of all their completed installs and the case would quickly be thrown out of court.


So again you are deciding what the law should do, it is very arrogant of you. The court might decide that given the long lead times of past orders that the supplier should have pointed out the lead times more specifically in the contract.

As for Cerberus's contract, they state 120 working days is typical, then go on to say they take no responsibility for Openreach taking longer, and laughably, they say they take no responsibility if the service can't be delivered at all! It is an unfair contract, and if anything the court might throw themselves about laughing, rather than throw the case out of court.

Don't forget no one is suggesting taking Openreach to court, the contract isn't with them but with the supplier.

So if a contract stipulates 120 working days, and it's been 100% longer (a year) but still no delivery, would a court decide that is unreasonable and so a breach of contract? You don't know the answer neither do I, but whatever was decided, it wouldn't be laughed out of court.

I should point out I've nothing against Cerberus and have no quarrel with them, and I'm not aware of them treating anyone unfairly, they are just used as an example as it is Cerberus that seems to be spoken about a lot,and in mostly a positive light. Still the law is the law, contracts are contracts, and people should know they don't have to put up with unreasonable delivery times (sometimes years in the case of FTTP on Demand) for a service, especially where those lead times are not made clear and not agreed to in the contract.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Wed 05-Jun-19 18:57:20)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 05-Jun-19 18:52:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Btw majority of delays to FTTPoD installs are out of Openreach's control such as road closures which can only be done at certain times of the year (eg if outside a school) according to local council rules/regulations.


This is true, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying - FTTPoD has no committed date and you have to be prepared to wait an unbounded period of time.

But oddly enough, if you buy a leased line, they will usually manage to get it installed within 45 working days.

I guess it just means that FTTPoD is given lowest possible commercial priority. Leased lines generate a lot more revenue in the long term, which of course is why most of us chose FTTPoD instead.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 18:53:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Cerberus state a minimum of 90 working days install time for FTTPod orders. Why is that so hard to understand?

"The estimated lead time to activation is a minimum of 90 working days from completion of planning work following the field survey.

Due to the variable nature of FTTPoD installations, the estimated lead time is for guidance only and is not subject to SLA."

https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:00:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi
So again you are deciding what the law should do, it is very arrogant of you. The court might decide that given the long lead times of past orders that the supplier should have pointed out the lead times more specifically in the contract.


Unless the supplier has Mystic Meg's crystal bowl how can they be specific wrt build times? You clearly don't understand that you can't put a specific time frame on any FTTPoD build. There's many unknowns/variables involved.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 05-Jun-19 19:02:13)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:06:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Cerberus state a minimum of 90 working days install time for FTTPod orders. Why is that so hard to understand?

"The estimated lead time to activation is a minimum of 90 working days from completion of planning work following the field survey.

Due to the variable nature of FTTPoD installations, the estimated lead time is for guidance only and is not subject to SLA."

https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...


Their actual contract states "typical lead time of 120 working days". Have you read it?

The point is, you can't have an open ended contract where the customer must wait for an unreasonable and indefinite amount of time without any means of redress. It's an unfair contract.

No matter what you say, or how you dress it, you can't change these facts. Therefore a customer is legally entitled to take the supplier to court if they believe the contract is unfair and services have not been provided in a reasonable time period. What is reasonable we can argue about, but it isn't for us to decide.

You basically seem to have come around to the fact you could sue for breach of contract which is a start, and you have reduced your own decision on what is a reasonable time from 4 years to 2 years, not that you have a veto on what that time span is, so I guess we could call that progress smile

Regards

Phil
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:08:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Unless the supplier has Mystic Meg's crystal bowl how can they be specific wrt build times? You clearly don't understand that you can't put a specific time frame on any FTTPoD build. There's many unknowns/variables involved.


That has no legal standing in contract law, unknowns and variables are not the customers problem, when will you understand that smile

Regards

Phil
Standard User dect
(member) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:24:37
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disca:
Can claim the government £2500 grant
How/when is the grant (I am assuming its the Gigabit Voucher Scheme) claimed for when done in conjunction with FTTPoD? For a Community Fibre Partnership its claimed at the start by Openreach and I've had it confirmed by them that the work has to be completed within 12 months otherwise the voucher become invalid.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:36:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

Unless the supplier has Mystic Meg's crystal bowl how can they be specific wrt build times? You clearly don't understand that you can't put a specific time frame on any FTTPoD build. There's many unknowns/variables involved.


That has no legal standing in contract law, unknowns and variables are not the customers problem, when will you understand that smile

Regards

Phil


We can argue all day about contract law and the CP's t&c's but the fact remains that, as of yet, no-one has taken their CP/Openreach to court because of an unfulfilled FTTPoD order. Most - if not all - customers ordering the service are fully aware that the build times can be long and are prepared for this.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 05-Jun-19 19:38:14)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:38:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
You could of course fund alvintc's legal costs to take Cerberus to court, as of course when according to you he inevitably wins he will get his costs also awarded and be able to re-imburse you.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:38:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by Disca:
Can claim the government £2500 grant
How/when is the grant (I am assuming its the Gigabit Voucher Scheme) claimed for when done in conjunction with FTTPoD? For a Community Fibre Partnership its claimed at the start by Openreach and I've had it confirmed by them that the work has to be completed within 12 months otherwise the voucher become invalid.


I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone where its taken so long for their service to be provided, and where they had a voucher that had expired? I would guess the supplier would just ask the company to re-apply, but given this voucher scheme has a limited lifetime, there will come the time when the voucher is no longer available, so would the supplier then be asking for an extra £2500.00?

Something people need to think about given the lead times for FTTP on Demand can take more than a year.

Regards

Phil
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 19:52:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
We can argue all day about contract law and the CP's t&c's but the fact remains that, as of yet, no-one has taken their CP/Openreach to court because of an unfulfilled FTTPoD order. Most - if not all - customers ordering the service are fully aware that the build times can be long and are prepared for this.


There is no argument from me about contract law, it is what it is.

Do you know for sure that no one has tried taking the supplier to court for non-delivery of FTTP on Demand? Maybe it was settled out of court and they signed an NDA as part of the settlement so no one knows about it.

I agree, customers do expect long build times, it doesn't make it right though that these build times are often excessive, with the perception that just because its FTTP on Demand the customer somehow has to be grateful they can order it at all, even if it does take a year or more. Lets not forget the customer is committing in many cases to huge expenditure up front for it and should not be treated like nuisance. If Openreach don't have the resources to offer reasonable installation times, they should just stop offering it.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Disca
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 20:10:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by Disca:
Can claim the government £2500 grant
How/when is the grant (I am assuming its the Gigabit Voucher Scheme) claimed for when done in conjunction with FTTPoD? For a Community Fibre Partnership its claimed at the start by Openreach and I've had it confirmed by them that the work has to be completed within 12 months otherwise the voucher become invalid.


I've been told its upon service completion and that I have to in some way be involved in the process - I think they confirm with me when its live. I'd like to hope its unlikely this will drag on past 12 months but I accept its possible.
Standard User Disca
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 20:12:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
.... so would the supplier then be asking for an extra £2500.00?

Something people need to think about given the lead times for FTTP on Demand can take more than a year.


I would be liable for it is my understanding.
Standard User Disca
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 20:15:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disca:
I would be liable for it is my understanding.


Infact just found this clause :-

All connections must be delivered and voucher claims submitted for payment no later than
12 months from the issue date of the relevant voucher(s). If Suppliers believe that, during
the 12 month implementation period, this timeframe is at risk due to issues caused by third
parties beyond their reasonable control and which could not be reasonably foreseen (and
the Suppliers have acted in accordance with good industry practice), then Suppliers should
contact the Authority as soon as is practicable with details of the mitigating circumstances,
including details of the relevant issue(s) and the earliest delivery date which can be achieved.
The Authority will consider the evidence provided and may, at its sole discretion, agree a
revised claim deadline for the voucher(s).

so not all hope is lost if it goes over 12 months and they take pity on you smile
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 05-Jun-19 20:29:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disca:
Infact just found this clause :-

All connections must be delivered and voucher claims submitted for payment no later than
12 months from the issue date of the relevant voucher(s). If Suppliers believe that, during
the 12 month implementation period, this timeframe is at risk due to issues caused by third
parties beyond their reasonable control and which could not be reasonably foreseen (and
the Suppliers have acted in accordance with good industry practice), then Suppliers should
contact the Authority as soon as is practicable with details of the mitigating circumstances,
including details of the relevant issue(s) and the earliest delivery date which can be achieved.
The Authority will consider the evidence provided and may, at its sole discretion, agree a
revised claim deadline for the voucher(s).

so not all hope is lost if it goes over 12 months and they take pity on you smile


Thank you for the update, there is hope then you should be able to go over 12 months.

I think FTTP on Demand needs looking into, Openreach should be providing some sort of SLA or discounts for protracted installations, it isn't fair that the customer takes all the risk. As I understand it, Openreach can take as long as they want and can also just decide not to bother at all with the installation. The whole point of the survey should identify any particular sticking points, e.g. needing way-leave agreements, or potentially lengthy delays getting permission to dig (major roads etc) in order to provide a reasonable time of completion and so when any compensation payments or right to cancel will commence.

It seems Openreach are treating FTTP on Demand customers with a very low priority. If it wasn't for the very low number of orders and so people involved Openreach wouldn't be getting away with it.

Regards

Phil
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 05-Jun-19 20:34:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I agree with you, it's absolutely ridiculous that it takes so long, it's already been stated and no one disputed it that leased line installs are far quicker, so it should be possible to install FTTPod just as quick.

I would be really annoyed if I'd spent £1000's and had nothing to show for it for years, especially if still struggling along on poor broadband that was affecting my business.

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Jun-19 21:35:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
It seems Openreach are treating FTTP on Demand customers with a very low priority. If it wasn't for the very low number of orders and so people involved Openreach wouldn't be getting away with it.


I'm not sure if you're aware but FTTPoD installs use the same fibre engineers from Openreach's other FTTP projects. Now unlike their native FTTP builds, Openreach cannot plan ahead Engineer allocation for their FTTPoD orders well in advance since they obviously don't know when & where their future FTTPoD builds will take place (unless they can employ the services of Mystic Meg). This is why native FTTP projects often takes years to install d/t the sheer amount of planning & resource allocation required. I very much doubt Openreach will ever employ a dedicated team just for FTTPoD installs since its a very niche & relatively small market.

As for leased line installs being quicker, they're a different kettle of fish. They often come with a SLA install time and for that you pay through the nose - not in install costs but in high monthly charges especiallly if you're not in a city/metro area. Also you have a wider choice of fibre suppliers (TalkTalk, SSE, Vodafone, Virgin as well as BT/Openreach) so some operators may use different methods to lay the fibre.

I'm sure Openreach, if they really wanted to, could improve install times for FTTPoD drastically but it would mean signficantly increasing their build costs to take into account increased resources/manpower. Or in other words, you get what you pay for. But I guess then hardly anyone would take out the service, so its a bit of a double edged sword. FTTPoD in its present form is far from perfect (especially the lousy upload speeds), but prices can be fairly reasonable (<10k) if you're not too far away from the fibre node and depending on your luck, you can have the service installed within 1 year. On the downside the install times are open ended and the actual service doesn't carry any SLA wrt fault fix times, unlike leased lines. I guess you could say FTTPoD is a poor man's leased line smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User dect
(member) Wed 05-Jun-19 22:35:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disca:
I've been told its upon service completion and that I have to in some way be involved in the process - I think they confirm with me when its live.
You may want to get clarity on when the voucher will be applied for as I would be surprised if its at completion considering the scheme can be withdrawn at any point.

You're correct about being contacted by the team that runs the voucher scheme after the installation is complete as they will want to check a few things before they release the money, you will need to prove you meet the prerequisites of the scheme (e.g. qualifying business, type of broadband package taken out)

Edited by dect (Wed 05-Jun-19 22:43:35)

Standard User Disca
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-19 23:00:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by Disca:
I've been told its upon service completion and that I have to in some way be involved in the process - I think they confirm with me when its live.
You may want to get clarity on when the voucher will be applied for as I would be surprised if its at completion considering the scheme can be withdrawn at any point.

You're correct about being contacted by the team that runs the voucher scheme after the installation is complete as they will want to check a few things before they release the money, you will need to prove you meet the prerequisites of the scheme (e.g. qualifying business, type of broadband package taken out)


Cerberus invoice for the full value, then upon completion the voucher gets verified (i.e the service is live) at that point the £2500 is contributed by the DCMS. The voucher is applied for before cerberus invoice so you already have it when you place the order.
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 00:47:57
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
You could of course fund alvintc's legal costs to take Cerberus to court, as of course when according to you he inevitably wins he will get his costs also awarded and be able to re-imburse you.


There must be some posts missing from the bit of the Forum I can see as I can't find the bit you have stressed in bold as you think it so important. The bits PhilipD has posted that I have managed to see are all in support of the point that there is an argument that FTTPoD is being sold in a manner that may fall foul of the law regarding unfair contract terms. Whether that argument can be substantiated is up to the courts to decide.

Could you point me to the bits where PhilipD does make the points you think so worthy of stress, please.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 06-Jun-19 01:29:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
The whole thread is going off topic...
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 06-Jun-19 07:58:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The whole thread is going off topic...


It always has regarding this thread and previous parts, it's why it runs to so many posts and constantly needs splitting. It is because FTTP on Demand is something that costs quite a lot of money and people want to discuss their successes and problems with the pricing and ordering.

I've found all these threads a valuable resource, from the prices people have been quoted to wider discussions about the voucher scheme, how the installations went, problems that arose and so the potential long waits without any right to cancel (it seems).

In forums sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong, if a separate new topic had been raised for all the various discussions that were not related to pricing, we'd be asked to stop doing that and keep it together in one thread.

Regards

Phil
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 06-Jun-19 08:38:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disca:
Cerberus invoice for the full value, then upon completion the voucher gets verified (i.e the service is live) at that point the £2500 is contributed by the DCMS. The voucher is applied for before cerberus invoice so you already have it when you place the order.


That's almost correct.

Cerberus invoice you for the full amount, but tell you to hold back the amount of the voucher on the assumption that it will be paid. My account still shows a £3,000 outstanding balance.

The DCMS doesn't pay the voucher until the service is live, and at this point the balance is settled. But if, for example, you cancel the order, you'll have to pay the full outstanding amount yourself.

As I'm over the 12 months, Cerberus have applied for an extension to the voucher. I do shoulder the risk that if the installation were to take longer than DCMS are prepared to extend, then I would be liable for that amount myself. (But that would generate very bad publicity for OpenReach, and I would be pressing them to contribute; the long delays are mostly down to their bad project management)

Edited by candlerb (Thu 06-Jun-19 08:57:21)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 06-Jun-19 09:08:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
the potential long waits without any right to cancel (it seems).


Oh puhhhlease. Stop banging on about the rights to cancel. No-one on this or previous threads has complained that their order is taking too long to fulfill and that they wish they could cancel it. A poster has complained that they weren't receiving weekly updates from Cerberus on time - not the same as someone asking if they had any right to cancel the order.

Openreach don't deliberately delay FTTPoD orders or choose to cancel them and then run off with the punters money as you seem to think. We're not talking about a cowboy builder here, its one of nation's biggest infrastructure companies and the damage such nefarious practices would do would be beyond words.

You are finding it difficult to grasp that a FTTP/oD build can be a very complex & time consuming project, which thankfully most FTTPoD customers do understand hence their patience. If Openreach had huge issues in a FTTPoD build - such as non-compliance from a landowner wrt wayleave permission - then they would refund the customer's money, but they would try their damn hardest to resolve that first. Btw Openreach have already scrapped native FTTP projects (eg Central London MDUs) where the land/building owner refuses to give wayleave access so no reason why they wouldn't do the same to FTTPoD customers should they hit the buffers.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User dect
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 09:17:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
As I'm over the 12 months, Cerberus have applied for an extension to the voucher.
Dove tailing this into the other conversation going on currently I take it (rightly or wrongly) that the DCMS (aka the government) consider 12 months to be a good target delivery date for FTTPoD otherwise they would have made this period longer.

Edited by dect (Thu 06-Jun-19 09:18:20)

Standard User GonePostal
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 09:19:45
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
No-one on this or previous threads has complained that their order is taking too long to fulfill and that they wish they could cancel it.


Totally factually correct, but in fairness alvintc seems to be close to that point (post of Fri 31-May-19 22:23:47 in this thread). Who knows whether he/she wants to cancel but thinks they are constrained by some sort of contract terms.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
You are finding it difficult to grasp that a FTTP/oD build can be a very complex & time consuming project, which thankfully most FTTPoD customers do understand hence their patience.


No-one is denying that FTTP/oD can be a very complex and time consuming project. What is worrying is that it seems beyond your intellectual grasp that the selling process for such an installation may be found to involve unfair contract terms should someone wish to challenge it legally.

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 06-Jun-19 09:27:01)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 06-Jun-19 09:39:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
the selling process for such an installation may be found to involve unfair contract terms should someone wish to challenge it legally.


And the relevance of that to this thread is.....?

And FYI:

In reply to a post by Alvintc:
OK, my issue is not with BT/ Timescales - I understand that.


FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 10:48:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
And FYI:

In reply to a post by Alvintc:
OK, my issue is not with BT/ Timescales - I understand that.


And the relevance of that to any discussion about the legalities of unfair contract terms is . . . ?

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 06-Jun-19 10:49:25)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 06-Jun-19 10:59:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
No-one on this or previous threads has complained that their order is taking too long to fulfill and that they wish they could cancel it.
What is worrying is that it seems beyond your intellectual grasp that the selling process for such an installation may be found to involve unfair contract terms should someone wish to challenge it legally.

Given your long-term stalking of someone, (myself, as in this thread), to challenge them about valid posts and opinions having yourself failed to comprehend the justification of those posts, insulting the clearly highly intelligent baby_frogmellaís intellectual grasp of anything is highly amusing.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 06-Jun-19 11:23:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
And FYI:

In reply to a post by Alvintc:
OK, my issue is not with BT/ Timescales - I understand that.


And the relevance of that to any discussion about the legalities of unfair contract terms is . . . ?

Bingo! You finally get it. Alvintc - or any other ordering customer on these threads - is not querying the contract terms wrt install times, hence the above quote. Therefore, bringing "unfair contract terms" into this thread (starting here) is totally irrelevant. However pls feel free to start a new thread and I'm sure some legal experts will join in the discussion. No need to hijack this thread.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 06-Jun-19 11:25:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
+1

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 11:43:42
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Life's too short to carry on trying to make a valid point when people do not want to understand.
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-19 12:42:10
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Wow. This really has gone off topic.

I'm pretty certain I've mentioned it multiple times... My issue is not with the timescales or delays.

I understand all of these (note, that's understanding not agreement!). My issue (and my thoughts on beginning to wish I'd never started this) is purely aimed at how Cerberus are not able to:
1. Keep to their update schedule
2. Make contact on key events

To reiterate - the timescales they've imposed are their own, they're update process is their own.
Them missing it is purely as they're not doing their job.

Case in point, my duct clearance has moved 3 times so far. Not once has Cerberus contacted me to confirm it has/ has not happened on the scheduled dates.

I know it hasn't happened when there's no closures near me. I also know it's not happened this week as the roadworks site list it was moved to 10/12. So what'll happen next is:
1. There will be no update from Cerberus (I'm meant to have my weekly update & also an event should have occurred)
2. I'll make contact tomorrow asking where the update is
3. They'll respond with BT have informed us the works were not completed, they're now scheduled to XX (my above dates I already know), they'll say your next update will be on Thursday next week

Then we'll repeat.

MY argument is "how difficult is it to set yourself a reminder to update cases & contact the customer"?

If you can't do it in a week, move it to 2 weeks - I don't care, it's not about the timescales it's about doing what you say you will!
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 06-Jun-19 13:42:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
My issue is not with the timescales or delays.


Out of interest, how long would it take before it is about delays, i.e. still no FTTP?

MY argument is "how difficult is it to set yourself a reminder to update cases & contact the customer"?

If you can't do it in a week, move it to 2 weeks - I don't care, it's not about the timescales it's about doing what you say you will!


All you can do is just accept it is the way it is with them, like you say, you often know the information they report anyway before they have reported it, so it's not like the updates are worthwhile. Plus, if all they are doing is updating you from a web-page they can log into at Openreach, it isn't doing anything to speed up the process. I would like to think they are calling Openreach at least once a week and pushing and complaining on your behalf, but it doesn't sound like they do that for you, at least at this time.

I agree though, it's not good for a company to promise a weekly update, then they don't do it, or do it late, but now you are tied into a contract with no leverage, so basically you can't do anything about it, all you can do is wait and see who breaks first, either Openreach in finally getting it sorted and so you are connected up and happy, or you break and take legal advice and get out of the contract for non delivery of service. That's the only two outcomes, and it seems the FTTP on Demand crowd are happy to wait around for years so... smile

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Thu 06-Jun-19 13:49:05)

Standard User vegito
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-19 15:16:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
As for leased line installs being quicker, they're a different kettle of fish. They often come with a SLA install time and for that you pay through the nose - not in install costs but in high monthly charges especiallly if you're not in a city/metro area. Also you have a wider choice of fibre suppliers (TalkTalk, SSE, Vodafone, Virgin as well as BT/Openreach) so some operators may use different methods to lay the fibre.

I'm sure Openreach, if they really wanted to, could improve install times for FTTPoD drastically but it would mean signficantly increasing their build costs to take into account increased resources/manpower. Or in other words, you get what you pay for. But I guess then hardly anyone would take out the service, so its a bit of a double edged sword. FTTPoD in its present form is far from perfect (especially the lousy upload speeds), but prices can be fairly reasonable (<10k) if you're not too far away from the fibre node and depending on your luck, you can have the service installed within 1 year. On the downside the install times are open ended and the actual service doesn't carry any SLA wrt fault fix times, unlike leased lines. I guess you could say FTTPoD is a poor man's leased line smile


Is it possible to get a leased line, pay throgh the nose for the contract length, then when the contract is up leave and get some other CP to turn it into a residential connection since the fibre has already been laid? It would probably work out cheaper and faster than FTTPOD, so I'm guessing it won't actually work smile

Edited by vegito (Thu 06-Jun-19 15:30:13)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 06-Jun-19 15:35:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: vegito] [link to this post]
 
Hi

You've quoted a post from me which isn't my post smile

Leased lines can't be turned into anything else, I think the fibre is connected completely differently to the GPON system used in FTTP by Openreach.

Regards

Phil
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 06-Jun-19 15:37:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: vegito] [link to this post]
 
You are right to assume it won't work.

Completely different technologies delivered by different methods from different locations.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 15:54:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
Wow. This really has gone off topic.

I'm pretty certain I've mentioned it multiple times... My issue is not with the timescales or delays.

I understand all of these (note, that's understanding not agreement!). My issue (and my thoughts on beginning to wish I'd never started this) is purely aimed at how Cerberus are not able to:
1. Keep to their update schedule
2. Make contact on key events

To reiterate - the timescales they've imposed are their own, they're update process is their own.
Them missing it is purely as they're not doing their job.

Case in point, my duct clearance has moved 3 times so far. Not once has Cerberus contacted me to confirm it has/ has not happened on the scheduled dates.

I know it hasn't happened when there's no closures near me. I also know it's not happened this week as the roadworks site list it was moved to 10/12. So what'll happen next is:
1. There will be no update from Cerberus (I'm meant to have my weekly update & also an event should have occurred)
2. I'll make contact tomorrow asking where the update is
3. They'll respond with BT have informed us the works were not completed, they're now scheduled to XX (my above dates I already know), they'll say your next update will be on Thursday next week

Then we'll repeat.

MY argument is "how difficult is it to set yourself a reminder to update cases & contact the customer"?

If you can't do it in a week, move it to 2 weeks - I don't care, it's not about the timescales it's about doing what you say you will!


It's not that hard, and I would say I got 95% of my updates weekly from Cerberus, either Thursday or Friday. The target for Cerberus's updates is Thursday, as this is the day Openreach release their updates. Cerberus could of course promise instead to update Friday, or Monday, but they know customers want updates as fast as possible, and also that any who have visited here know Openreach release updates on a Thursday. The options are as I see it:
a) State a target of Thrusday and miss it sometimes
b) State a target of Friday and sometimes deliver early - thereby letting the cat out of the bag
c) State a target of Friday and never deliver early - letting posters on here let the cat out of the bag.

You would be annoyed by all three options.

I've seen some of the updates from Openreach and they are sometimes relatively obtuse in their detail, and not likely to contain updates on road work scheduling.

You seem to want to pull in other data sources that may indicate work on your job has been delayed. But be honest, roadworks.org does not state that the works are for your FTTP. You are making an assumption, that is reasonable for you to make, but not reasonable for Cerberus. They can only release the official Openreach status.

All Cerberus are doing is passing on the Openreach update. They aren't making stuff up.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 16:21:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
My issue is not with the timescales or delays.


Out of interest, how long would it take before it is about delays, i.e. still no FTTP?

MY argument is "how difficult is it to set yourself a reminder to update cases & contact the customer"?

If you can't do it in a week, move it to 2 weeks - I don't care, it's not about the timescales it's about doing what you say you will!


All you can do is just accept it is the way it is with them, like you say, you often know the information they report anyway before they have reported it, so it's not like the updates are worthwhile. Plus, if all they are doing is updating you from a web-page they can log into at Openreach, it isn't doing anything to speed up the process. I would like to think they are calling Openreach at least once a week and pushing and complaining on your behalf, but it doesn't sound like they do that for you, at least at this time.

I agree though, it's not good for a company to promise a weekly update, then they don't do it, or do it late, but now you are tied into a contract with no leverage, so basically you can't do anything about it, all you can do is wait and see who breaks first, either Openreach in finally getting it sorted and so you are connected up and happy, or you break and take legal advice and get out of the contract for non delivery of service. That's the only two outcomes, and it seems the FTTP on Demand crowd are happy to wait around for years so... smile

Regards

Phil


Phil,

You are of course correct in your lengthy assertions. To sump up:

- All contracts in the UK are subject to contract law.
- The court will decide if the contract is unfair and potentially allow the user to exit the contract, and may award damages if they see fit
- The user will not get what they want (FTTP)

Is that a decent enough summary. The rest of it is just waffle.

Dave
Standard User E300
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-19 16:56:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4 *DELETED*


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Hi all, well there are some pretty rude and pedantic people on this forum (par for the course) who are acting like kids in the playground so I don't think I will frequent here that often, so will update only if anything interesting happens out of the ordinary with my order that has now been placed. I've been receiving updates from Cerberus usually on Thursday but sometimes Friday, so far so good.

Good luck to all those playing the waiting game and I hope it's not a long one for you.

Edited by E300 (Thu 06-Jun-19 16:58:19)

Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 17:09:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4 *DELETED*


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
Hi all, well there are some pretty rude and pedantic people on this forum (par for the course) who are acting like kids in the playground so I don't think I will frequent here that often, so will update only if anything interesting happens out of the ordinary with my order that has now been placed. I've been receiving updates from Cerberus usually on Thursday but sometimes Friday, so far so good.

Good luck to all those playing the waiting game and I hope it's not a long one for you.

It's generally a pretty friendly site, and it looks to have been derailed somewhat. There is some good technical help available if you want to understand the progress, and what may be coming next. As I posted above the updates from Openreach can be rather obtuse. And the eyeball update, what is going on in your street, along with photos posted my help you understand where you are and what is next.

At one point my update was 'waiting for customer delivery from stores' or something, when I had had the deliver of ducting and self installed 4-months earlier! A better update was available from here with a photo of the splitter being installed (I needed it confirmed it was a splitter).

Good luck with your install.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Jun-19 17:17:22
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Where is the Government talking about Fibre on Demand?

The USO does not mention the fibre on demand product.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User vegito
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-19 17:28:22
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

You've quoted a post from me which isn't my post smile

Leased lines can't be turned into anything else, I think the fibre is connected completely differently to the GPON system used in FTTP by Openreach.

Regards

Phil


Oops sorry, phone posting.

I was thinking more like altnet providers like Cityfibre/Entanet (who also provide EPON), I should maybe take this to another thread though
Standard User dect
(member) Thu 06-Jun-19 18:48:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Where is the Government talking about Fibre on Demand?

The USO does not mention the fibre on demand product.
We was discussing the fact that a GBVS voucher is only valid for 12 months so the government must have expected that bespoke fibre installations through this scheme would be completed within 12 months.

Nothing to do with USO and fibre on demand product
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Jun-19 18:55:58
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Ah - sorry USO stuck on the brain today

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 10:15:28
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Where is the Government talking about Fibre on Demand?

The USO does not mention the fibre on demand product.
We was discussing the fact that a GBVS voucher is only valid for 12 months so the government must have expected that bespoke fibre installations through this scheme would be completed within 12 months.

Nothing to do with USO and fibre on demand product


I would suggest that anyone that has worked at this level with the Government on major projects would know that the 12-month limit would have been put in as an arbitrary limit, based on normal practice for grants and not as a result of any discussion with Openreach as to how long FTTPoD would take to deploy for an average installation. (I did a chunk on smart metering and they were literally clueless as to how the electricity market even worked).

The grant has a renewal mechanism built in, so they can and typically will renew subject to funding still being available and an intention to still deploy. An open ended grant would be silly as it would lock funds where the deployment was abandoned, resulting in less bang for buck.

And note the voucher doesn't have to be used with Openreach it can be used with any provider. It can be used with our local WISP. They can rock up, slap an aerial on and be up and running in <week. Compare that to trenching down the side of the A446 to repair a blocked duct, requiring at least a 28-day request for roadworks.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 07-Jun-19 10:58:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Well I've just had a very welcome breakthrough in my install. I paid the big bill back last November and the Fibre has been run all the way from the aggregation node except for a blocked duct right outside the house. Unfortunately the blockage was somewhere under my neighbours garden or drive and he wasn't keen to sign the PTD form until Openreach could tell him exactly where they were digging.

Anyway long story short Openreach came back today with a camera to try and find exactly where the blockage was and have managed to unblock said duct. Right now I have a reel of fibre coiled up outside and am waiting for the appointment to fit the ONT.

I also think this result will make my neighbour quite happy too!

EDIT: big bill was Nov, original survey was Sept

Mike

Edited by abat (Fri 07-Jun-19 14:27:58)

Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 11:02:02
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Awesome. Probably a couple of weeks to go, depending on scheduling of ONT. You may want to make room in your diary to run speed tests again and again. Congratulations.
Standard User dect
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 15:08:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
the 12-month limit would have been put in as an arbitrary limit, based on normal practice for grants and not as a result of any discussion with Openreach
What you say makes a lot of sense.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
The grant has a renewal mechanism built in
Just after the GBVS was launched I had a long chat with my contact in the CFP department at Openreach about what happens if they do not meet the 12 month deadline and was told there was no voucher renewal mechanism so not sure if DCMS realised after the launch that 12 months isn't enough for bespoke solutions or my contact didn't know about the renewal mechanism.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 15:38:28
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Probably a bit of both. These things are never as clear cut as people think.

If a voucher timed out after 12-months, and you hadn't had a grant, then a grant could be applied for if funds still were still available and you were still eligible so a renewal of sorts. It is far easier for the awarding body of any grant scheme to renew the grant than have someone reapply. So it it is wasn't specifically included at launch it would be available via a back door. So possibly added as an official extension when it became obvious to all that it was required. From GBVS perspective why on earth would it take longer than 12-months to just get internet. But the real world has poles, ducts, roadworks and a whole hatful of things that cause engineering delays. It shouldn't take that long but it can and has.

(I've just had to have a grant for a club extended as it fell over a budget year for the council, we just couldn't get the project delivered in time, they were fine with it as long as it was documented)

The world of grants is really odd. The team issuing the grants want to spend the money, and quickly. This proves the grant to be popular and useful. If the grant isn't popular then the scheme will be scrapped and in some cases they will no longer have a job. If the scheme sells early it makes a strong case to ask for more money and extend the scheme. Of course the applications have to meet criteria but they aren't trying to stop you getting the grant, quite the opposite.
Standard User LeeEng
(newbie) Fri 07-Jun-19 17:17:58
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Just gone live today with our FTTPod

Timeline Ė
12/07/18 Requested desktop survey
23/07/18 Full survey requested & paid.
30/08/18 quote received
07/06/19 final commission & test
Our fibre node is exactly 5.5 metres (not a typo) from our building Ė itís taken 11 months of pain to get connected, thatís an average of half a metre a month!

Looks like weíve just managed to swerve any 12 month grant issues.

Was it worth it - oh yes

Phil
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 17:26:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: LeeEng] [link to this post]
 
Congratulations.

That must have been painful progress! Welcome the world of where the internet works! What speed did you have before?
Standard User LeeEng
(newbie) Fri 07-Jun-19 17:39:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Thanks ...

We have reasonable FTTC speeds - but wanted better reliability and more upload.
Our aim is to upgrade to the 1000/220 service in the future.

Ironically - since we ordered FTTPod, Gfast has been added and Virgin are digging the street.

Phil
Standard User dect
(member) Fri 07-Jun-19 17:47:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: LeeEng] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by LeeEng:
Just gone live today with our FTTPod

Timeline Ė
12/07/18 Requested desktop survey
23/07/18 Full survey requested & paid.
30/08/18 quote received
07/06/19 final commission & test
Our fibre node is exactly 5.5 metres (not a typo) from our building Ė itís taken 11 months of pain to get connected, thatís an average of half a metre a month!

Looks like weíve just managed to swerve any 12 month grant issues.

Was it worth it - oh yes

Phil
That's great news smile

The 'FTTPoD Desktop Quotes and Final Prices' spreadsheet shows your final quote as £2,466.05 so that makes it just shy of £500 per metre to get it to your building.

Shame we dont have a price per metre for all FTTPoD installations as that would make interesting reading.

Edited by dect (Fri 07-Jun-19 18:20:34)

Standard User LeeEng
(newbie) Fri 07-Jun-19 17:55:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Price per metre & timescale would make interesting extra columns on the spreadsheet

Phil
Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Sun 09-Jun-19 14:32:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: LeeEng] [link to this post]
 
I've bit the bullet and ordered my full survey from Cerberus today! The desktop survey was £21800 excluding VAT. Fingers crossed it'll come in below that. Does the surveyor come and talk to you at any point? I'd love to get more info from him/her and keep you all updated.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 09-Jun-19 14:58:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
They came and asked to take photo where we wanted to put the ONT. They also told us where the aggregation node was. Your mileage may vary!

Mike
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 09-Jun-19 15:52:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
Yeah they usually require internal access so that they can discuss internal cable routing & location of the ONT with you. Not sure what the limits are on the newer connectorized installs, but on the blown fibre installs they have a limit of 30m for the internal cabling. Luckily mine was around 5m from the external CSP so no issues there.

Btw don't forget the obligatory tea/coffee & snacks to 'bribe' him or her with wink

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Disca
(newbie) Mon 10-Jun-19 09:13:09
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Just to add, the surveyor didn't need to see indoors at mine at all. Literally spoke to him for 5 minutes outside, wrongly presuming he'd come back after it was done to discuss so I never got to ask any of the technical questions I had sadly so I'm not the wiser about any of the challenges of my install.
Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Wed 12-Jun-19 22:58:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: LeeEng] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by LeeEng:
Just gone live today with our FTTPod

Timeline Ė
12/07/18 Requested desktop survey
23/07/18 Full survey requested & paid.
30/08/18 quote received
07/06/19 final commission & test
Our fibre node is exactly 5.5 metres (not a typo) from our building Ė itís taken 11 months of pain to get connected, thatís an average of half a metre a month!

Looks like weíve just managed to swerve any 12 month grant issues.

Was it worth it - oh yes

Phil

We went live on Monday PM. My timeline is eerily similar to yours:

02/07/18 Requested desktop survey
12/07/18 Full survey requested & paid.
24/09/18 Final quote received
10/06/19 final commission & test

Mind you our aggregation node is roughly 1.8km away and requires about 34 pole spans and several underground sections. Clearly time to deliver by OR is not distance dependant.

What was your install cost if I may be so bold to ask? Ours was one of the rare cases on here of the final quote actually being higher than the Desktop EBC (by almost £1500).

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 12-Jun-19 23:01:14)

Standard User LeeEng
(newbie) Thu 13-Jun-19 10:52:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Estimated Build Cost: £34,000.00 ex VAT

The confirmed build charge is £2,216.05 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey charge and a £700.00 deduction for your FTTPoD order.

Surveyor initially thought our local node was approximately 2km away - until we pointed out it was actually outside our office, hence the large reduction in costs.

It actually took 15 Openwound visits to complete the job !

Phil
Standard User jecop
(newbie) Thu 13-Jun-19 22:22:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jecop] [link to this post]
 
I got the result of the survey (got it on 23 May) The email stated:
We have received the confirmed build charge from Openreach following the survey for your FTTP on Demand order. The installation costs for this order are on the attached quote.

Openreach provided an initial estimate of the build charge at £14,300.00 + VAT.

The confirmed build charge is £8,867.00 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £900.00 for premises passed.


There was no break-down of the costs included. With VAT this comes to £10,640.40
I've decided this is more than I can afford
Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Fri 14-Jun-19 08:18:27
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: jecop] [link to this post]
 
Just wondering, what price would you have proceeded at? 5K? Personally I'll pay the full desktop quote given to me but not if it's much more.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Fri 14-Jun-19 08:41:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by darren_mccoy:
Just wondering, what price would you have proceeded at? 5K? Personally I'll pay the full desktop quote given to me but not if it's much more.


Most people end up with a final price which is lower than the desktop quote.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Jun-19 09:10:23
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
My update this week confirms the duct is unblocked and next step is "commissioning". Can't be too much longer!

Mike
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Fri 14-Jun-19 23:00:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi guys,

With regard to the GBVS, is the 2500 business voucher including or plus vat?

cheers.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sat 15-Jun-19 08:49:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
With regard to the GBVS, is the 2500 business voucher including or plus vat?


Neither. The GBVS cannot be used to pay any VAT at all.

So if you were lucky enough that your install charge came to £2000+VAT = £2400, you could only use £2000 of the GBVS towards it, and would have to pay the £400 VAT (but if you're VAT registered you could claim that back).

If your install were £4000+VAT = £4800, then you could use £2500 GBVS towards the principal, and would have to pay £1500 remaining principal plus £800 VAT.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Tue 18-Jun-19 07:22:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices Part 4


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
With regard to the GBVS, is the 2500 business voucher including or plus vat?


Neither. The GBVS cannot be used to pay any VAT at all.

So if you were lucky enough that your install charge came to £2000+VAT = £2400, you could only use £2000 of the GBVS towards it, and would have to pay the £400 VAT (but if you're VAT registered you could claim that back).

If your install were £4000+VAT = £4800, then you could use £2500 GBVS towards the principal, and would have to pay £1500 remaining principal plus £800 VAT.


Understood.

Thanks.

smile
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