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Standard User FibreFelix
(newbie) Mon 18-Mar-19 10:02:28
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Poor FTTP Throughput?


[link to this post]
 
Good Morning All

I'm having speed issues with FTTP and wondered if anyone could provide any suggestions of how I can rule out whether it's the firewall (Unifi USG 4) or something at the network end? Before 22 February, the incremental 15 minute speed tests that were running on the USG were almost always showing 300/30 with few drops apart from peak times (which can be expected):

https://ibb.co/56YDHQq

Since 23 February, our speed tests have been extremely erratic, with the FTTP speeds dropping to as low as 30 down/30 up and no consistency in terms of the speeds or ping responses:

https://ibb.co/0K7mLKg

We have cerberus FTTP (it was the OD product) and I've raised a fault with them and they have noted that from their end we've been moved onto the biggest available VLAN for our area and that they don't have any more options in terms of what they can do.

I've plugged in directly to the ONT and dialed PPPoE sessions and whilst at first I got the full expected 300/30, speeds have dropped when I connect now and produce less than 200mbps on various speed test websites (upload is relatively consistent).

Does anyone have any ideas on whether the USG is likely causing the large drops in speeds or if it's the ONT and if so what I should try and do?

Thanks in advance!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 18-Mar-19 10:26:40
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
Do you mean you are running a speed test every 15 minutes?

If you are a few others on your VLAN might have noticed quite variable speeds and started doing the same.

This used to be a serious problem when ADSL2+ first became available. So many people running speed tests that they congested the network. They were causing the problem they were trying to prove existed.

No shared service like this is designed to support that level of flat-out use. No streaming service you use will be putting 300Mbps down your connection.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 18-Mar-19 11:20:27
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
Hi

It is a contended service so it is never guaranteed to get the fastest speed all the time.

Do you recall how many properties your fibre was serving? One fibre can be shared between around 32 properties and has a total rate of 2.5Gbps download speed to be shared. So 32 connections all online downloading could see speeds as low as ~78Mbps. Also BT may have connected a business on the same fibre to their new higher speed of 1Gbps to further compound problems.

BT when selling their FTTP usually guaranteed a minimum speed of 100Mbps, so if going considerably lower I'm sure Cerberus can raise a complaint.

If you are getting consistently in excess of 200Mbps direct at the ONT, but not via your router, then the problem is your internal network.

Check the obvious like the network cable, a bad connection or wire can see a connection on your network dropping to 100Mbps rather than 1000Mbps.

Are you getting speed drops based on peak time periods?

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Mon 18-Mar-19 11:21:01)


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Mar-19 11:24:39
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by FibreFelix:
I've plugged in directly to the ONT and dialed PPPoE sessions and whilst at first I got the full expected 300/30, speeds have dropped when I connect now and produce less than 200mbps on various speed test websites (upload is relatively consistent).


Did you connect a PC to the ONT and run a PPPoE connection from there? That should be your first port of call, if not already done so. If the same results on a PC then the issue will be external - it definitely won't be the ONT. If your results are ok on the PC then obviously your USG is the cause.

In reply to a post by FibreFelix:
We have cerberus FTTP (it was the OD product) and I've raised a fault with them and they have noted that from their end we've been moved onto the biggest available VLAN for our area and that they don't have any more options in terms of what they can do.

If BT Wholesale have put you on a different (less congested) Virtual Path at the exchange (SVLAN) and the issue isn't internal, then it could be an issue on the Cerberus network. Do Cerberus give you a live snapshot of the traffic load on their network? This is the one from my ISP, FluidOne:

https://i.postimg.cc/90C3YSk7/weather-map.jpg

In case it helps I got peak time slow downs on FTTPoD last year but this got fixed after being moved to a different SVLAN by BT Wholesale.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 18-Mar-19 12:08:39)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Mar-19 11:36:42
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Do you recall how many properties your fibre was serving? One fibre can be shared between around 32 properties and has a total rate of 2.5Gbps download speed to be shared. So 32 connections all online downloading could see speeds as low as ~78Mbps. Also BT may have connected a business on the same fibre to their new higher speed of 1Gbps to further compound problems.

BT when selling their FTTP usually guaranteed a minimum speed of 100Mbps, so if going considerably lower I'm sure Cerberus can raise a complaint.


1) The OP is on an On Demand FTTP service under the old pricing (link) so its highly unlikely he's sharing the fibre with someone else at the local level.

2) The 100 Mbps speed guarantee only applies to BT Retail's latest/current FTTP offering or the newer 330/50 FTTP product which the OP is not on. I think FTTPoD (under the old pricing) had a min SLA speed guarantee of 40-60Mbps, same as the old BT Retail Infinity 4 product. Nevertheless whether the OP is getting 50 Mbps or 150 Mbs, his CP should investigate and not fob him off (assuming the fault isn't with this hardware).

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 18-Mar-19 11:37:43)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 18-Mar-19 11:46:13
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi

1) The OP is on an On Demand FTTP service under the old pricing (link) so its highly unlikely he's sharing the fibre with someone else at the local level.


I try not to make assumptions and so was just asking the question that's all and pointing how close to home the bottleneck may start from.

2) The 100 Mbps speed guarantee only applies to BT Retail's latest/current FTTP offering or a newer FTTP product which the OP is not on. I think FTTPoD (under the old pricing) had a min SLA speed guarantee of 40-60Mbps, same as the old BT Retail Infinity 4 product. Nevertheless whether the OP is getting 50 Mbps or 150 Mbs, his CP should investigate and not fob him off (assuming the fault isn't with this hardware).


I added that information as it gives an indication as to what would be likely considered or taken seriously as a fault.

Cerberus are the best port of call I quite agree, but the OP is just asking for some advice and to get an idea of expected norms. Cerberus however don't provide a minimum speed guarantee going by their latest terms and conditions:

"Cerberus shall not be liable for services operating at speeds below the theoretical maximums from time to time, or during peak hours of service (Mon-Fri, 0900-1800), due to such factors." So you need to argue it's too often to be considered from time-to-time I guess.

Regards

Phil
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Mon 18-Mar-19 13:23:43
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
To me the graphs show the potential that people testing regularly swamp the network at regular intervals lead to others noticing and starting to test regularly also, then the downward spiral commences and more people test etc.

Why do you ( and others) need to test your connection speed every 15 min saturating your pipe for 30s to 1 min out of 15. and clogging up downstream networks elsewhere. ( Apart from producing lovely graphs that is).

Surely one test every 2-3 hours would be enough?

Some years ago I turned down senior manager requirements for network stats every min as the network boxes would have used more processing producing the stats than handling the traffic! ( luckily the cost would have been astronomical so backed me up from a cost perspective)
Standard User FibreFelix
(newbie) Mon 18-Mar-19 13:53:05
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Hi Everyone

Thank you for your many helpful responses. I appreciate it may seem rather trivial but in the height of the summer (we're a hotel) we can on occasion have enough devices all trying to stream 4k Netflix that would max out the 300mbps line, albeit this isn't really an issue. I appreciate we can introduce guest speed limits but we'd rather allow everyone to have full speed within reason.

As Baby_Frogmella has pointed out, we're the only one on our Fibre node in rural Devon as far as we're aware. The engineer even noted when he installed our fibre that he didn't even think our exchange had FTTP capability prior to us placing the order for the OD product. Therefore, I believe we can rule out connection contention as an issue. If a single node can do 32 properties that won't be an issue as there aren't anywhere near that number of properties near our node!

The issue is that we do get the full 300/30 occasionally on the speed test results and the incremental 15 minute testing was not an issue until the February date noted in my original post. I've lowered the increment to every 49 minutes (which strangely is the shortest time frame supported on Unifi) to see if this improves the results.

I did connect my laptop directly to the ONT and then dialled the PPPoE from there which gave mixed results as noted. That would lead me to believe it could be external based on Baby_Frogmella's post.

Cerberus don't provide live snapshots as far as I'm aware but I have wondered if the issue is from there network end but they have assured me it was not (I've had this problem before and after raising it with them and something was changed all was fine again albeit I do not know what they did).

I have wondered if a firmware update on the USG is also having an affect as I restored to factory defaults which hasn't helped.

I'll have to revert to Cerberus.

Thanks again everyone!

Felix
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 18-Mar-19 14:58:15
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Unfortunately these types of FTTP products are not really designed for continual high bandwidth use such as many users streaming 4K video, as they are contended and bandwidth is always shared somewhere. BT may only be guaranteeing 20Mbps to Cerberus as they do with other products.

I'm not sure if your fibre could have been intercepted elsewhere and split, or they are only split at the local DP. Still it maybe the exchange is congested on it's backhaul, I've had that before with VDSL with very poor speeds then after weeks of suffering and everyone denying the problem is with them, it's got fixed.

To get a guaranteed 300Mbps point-to-point with no contention will cost a lot more.

300Mbps is really a burst speed, a maximum best case scenario.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Mon 18-Mar-19 15:00:11)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 18-Mar-19 15:25:19
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Re: Poor FTTP Throughput?


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
Being the only one on your fibre node, just means no one locally to contend with, but there is still the handover exchange where lots of nodes meet up, and the backhaul arrangements of the provider and then the greater Internet

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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