Conflicting FTTP availability due to duplicate address

Hi

I�m looking at purchasing a property but am having an absolute nightmare trying to determine the availability of fibre for it � having had inconclusive and conflicting answers from BT and as yet nothing from enquiries to Openreach � and am hoping someone here can help shed some light on the problem.

Basically the main issue seems to be that for some reason there are two addresses for the same property listed on the Openreach database, and all others I check (BT/DLS checker etc).

The two addresses listed are:
(1) 2 Park Road, Dinas Powys, CF64 4HJ
From DSL checker this seems to have other details:
UPRN: 100100918591
District area: SW
NAD Key: A15097175534
On Exchange PENARTH

And
(2) Seaton House, 2 Park Road, Dinas Powys, CF64 4HJ
From DSL checker this seems to have other details:
UPRN: 100100918591
District area: SW
NAD Key: A15101942083
On Exchange DINAS POWYS
is served by Cabinet 9

As you can see above, both addresses have the same UPRN, but different NAD Keys. They seems to be on different exchanges and there is no cabinet info available for (1).

From looking at the POST OFFICE DB � they seem to have the address listed for the property as (1)

From what I can tell (2) seems to be the address with which the current owners have a copper line account registered with BT. But they have no fibre connected.

Now� Running these two addresses on various fibre/broadband checkers FTTP is listed as available now for address (1), but not for address (2).

Result for address (1):

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Address 2 PARK ROAD, DINAS POWYS, CF64 4HJ on Exchange PENARTH
NAD key A15097175534 on Exchange PENARTH
WBC FTTP: Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Up to 1000
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps): Up to 220
WBC FTTP Availability Date: Available
FTTP Install Process: KCI2 Assure
Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
This line is on a Market B Exchange.
In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.
Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number, NAD, UPRN or Access Line ID (ALID) check.
Note: If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service.
Thank you for your interest.


Result for address (2):

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Address SEATON HOUSE, 2 PARK ROAD, DINAS POWYS, CF64 4HJ on Exchange DINAS POWYS is served by Cabinet 9
NAD key A15101942083 on Exchange DINAS POWYS is served by Cabinet 9
ADSL Products:
WBC ADSL 2+: Up to 17 Mbps
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M: Up to 17 Mbps
ADSL Max: Up to 7.5 Mbps
WBC Fixed Rate: 2
Fixed Rate: 2
Other Offerings
ADSL Multicast

FTTP is not available.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
This line is on a Market B Exchange.
In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.
Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2013; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Jun-2014.
Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number, NAD, UPRN or Access Line ID (ALID) check.
Note:
Thank you for your interest.


Someone at BT I spoke to (first) told me that address (2) is currently active for a copper line account and the duplicate address (1) was a mistake Openreach must have made in registering the address for FTTP access (probably using the Post Office registered address). But the BT operative told me setting up an FTTP line WOULD be possible using the address (1) � just that it would create a new account � separate from any account held for the copper line at (2).

Sadly, a second operative I spoke to a few days later totally contradicted this and said that since address (2) is an active account then there would probably be no way to set up FTTP. They said address (1) would probably be a port in the exchange or cabinet that led to nothing, or perhaps a test port that was set up � though this all sounded a bit technical for me � and I wasn�t sure she knew what she was really talking about either.

What concerns me most is that running checks on address (1) gives NO INDICATION OF ANY CABINET and that the exchange it lists is PENARTH (which is an exchange a mile away) and not DINAS POWYS, which would make more sense as it�s closer. All other properties in the post code I check seem to be served by cabinet 9/Dinas Powys exchange.

Running checks on neighbouring properties gives other conflicting results that don�t seem to help much. My friend actually lives in the neighbouring property and running his details you get:

Address HENDREF, PARK ROAD, DINAS POWYS, CF64 4HJ on Exchange DINAS POWYS is served by Cabinet 9.
FTTP is in Waiters status. An order may be placed which will be processed when the network is ready.

Yet a few others give FTTP available (though most give same as above).

Can any of you give me any idea of if FTTP really is available at this property � or how I can find out for sure? At the moment the only thing I can think of is ordering a service with BT and seeing if they can install it before I decide to buy the property � though this is obviously far from ideal!

Any help/advice would be hugely appreciated!

Thanks

Looks available but only 100% way is to know that house has FTTP up and running, close to that is for a physical inspection of what is available and would need Openreach to do that (of course others can see if kit is on poles, but you cannot tell if it is lit - wider questioning of neighbours may show someone who has ordered the service)

Short answer is if you are moving in, it would not seem to matter which of the two addresses are used to place an order. Don't understand the worries from BT about this creating a new account since there would be a new account created when you moved in anyway - your issue may be more BT Consumer inflexibility than the actual FTTP, in which case see if a more sensible response is available from Zen Internet

Many thanks for the reply, MrSaffron.

Basically I work from home and need internet speeds above the base 17Mbs - or I buying the house won't make any sense. So, since FTTP seems the only viable option (possibly) available at the house I will need to make sure it really is available before committing to buying the house. Sadly, as you say, it seems that persuading the current owners to try and get an FTTP installation is the only way to be sure.

Is the different exchange listing and lack of cabinet listing for address (1) of cause for concern, in your opinion?

Thanks

As Mr S has suggested, why don't you politely ask the current owners (or even better, yourself) to take photos of the overhead poles in the area to see if FTTP hardware is already installed? Looking on Google Streetview, it seems Openreach are using O/H poles rather than U/G infrastructure. Some photos here of what you should be looking out for:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftt...

Edited by deleted (Thu 04-Apr-19 09:50:22)

The checker shows FTTP available for the first address, the different exchange and lack of cabinet is of no concern, FTTP does not go to any FTTC cabinet.

Many thanks to all of you for your swift replies on this.

I'll go and try and get some photos of the O/H lines around there today to see if I can see any of the tech mentioned on the poles.

And thanks for the note on the cabinet/exchange - as this was my biggest worry in the results since it seemed anomalous.

I guess the few other addresses (which do have FTTP available) nearby - and show they are served by cabinet number 9 on the check may do so because they also have a copper wire line linked with the same address - whereas the FTTP/copper wire line accounts seem to have been split between two addresses (1) and (2) for this particular house... am I right? If any of that makes sense to you!

It's a little more complicated.
On Openreach's systems address 1 is returning: "Address Not Found. Openreach have deleted this address from CSS but not Siebel" even though it's a 'gold' address, but address 2 is fine and correctly showing a line active as expected.
If you placed an order with us or another OR FTTP provider I expect the address would have to be passed to OR Network addressing team to sort out their records otherwise the order would probably be rejected. They would be the ones who should definitely know the FTTP availability at the premises and sort out the address matching and remove the duplicate record. An ISP would have to do the asking though, it's not an uncommon situation.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Are you able to tell me what CSS and Siebel are?

Also what do you mean by a 'gold' address?

Thanks

Are you able to tell me what CSS and Siebel are?
Part of the ordering systems providers use.

Also what do you mean by a 'gold' address?
Openreach know all about it.
Silver means less confident they know about
Bronze means no idea