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Standard User Retron
(learned) Mon 17-Jun-19 13:00:52
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FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[link to this post]
 
As the last thread is now getting rather long, I reckon it's time for a new one. Especially as it's taken four long threads before my service has, at long last, gone live!

Previous parts are here:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4595298-ftt...
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4604719-re-...
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4612934-ftt...
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4615393-fttp...

Now, it may have taken 15 months but the story isn't over. Originally an engineer was booked two weeks ago, but I had to cancel (but nobody told the poor engineer, who turned up at an empty house).

A different chap turns up today, takes one look at the copper wire and says he'll need to replace it with a combination fibre/copper drop cable. Only thing is, he has none with him (as he was told cabling was in place), so he has to pop off to the stores.

40 minutes later, he's back with a friend. New cabling is duly strung up, with a new ONT installed. He seems surprised when after asking where my router is ("BT should have supplied one"), I tell him I'm not with BT, I'm with Cerberus.

He asks me to check, as light levels are good (under 18, whatever that means!) and it should all work. And it does - kind of.

As you can see, it's not exactly great. In fact, it's awful!

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15607722145...

We have tested the speed of the connection and have recorded an average download speed of: 6.24 Mbps
Your average upload speed was recorded as: 5.29 Mbps.

The Ookla speed tester is better, but still nowhere near what my old FTTC connection was getting....

https://www.speedtest.net/result/8343827350
Download 8.88 mbps, Upload 30.93mbps.

After I pointed this out, he checked the light levels again, said they're good and that I should pass on to Cerberus that the light levels were good. And off he went (he also tried taking the Openreach FTTC modem, but I stopped him as I'm still paying - and using! - that connection).

So, while this is coming from my new Cerberus connection, I'll be switching back to my old Merula FTTC connection for now (as that still tests at 74 down, 19 up).

Let's see what Cerberus can do...

Edited by Retron (Mon 17-Jun-19 13:08:28)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Jun-19 13:17:25
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
First of all welcome to the ever growing FTTPoD club smile

I also had similar slow-ish speeds as soon as my FTTPoD service went live, however a few hours later i was hitting > 300 Mbps after reporting this to my CP (FluidOne). It won't be an issue at Openreach's end, it willl require some tweaking at Cerberus' end.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User brookheather
(member) Mon 17-Jun-19 13:29:45
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
He asks me to check, as light levels are good (under 18, whatever that means!) and it should all work.

This refers to the measurement of the loss of light levels between your ONT and the exchange - OR aim for a loss of less than 20dB apparently so your 18dB loss is fine - mine was 15dB.

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + Asus RT-AC67U AiMesh

Edited by brookheather (Mon 17-Jun-19 13:30:17)


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Standard User Retron
(learned) Mon 17-Jun-19 13:40:11
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brookheather:
This refers to the measurement of the loss of light levels between your ONT and the exchange - OR aim for a loss of less than 20dB apparently so your 18dB loss is fine - mine was 15dB.

Ah, that makes sense (I hadn't realised light levels were also measured in dB, as copper lines are). The engineer wasn't at all talkative, so I didn't fancy asking all the questions I had!

I've reported the speed issue to Cerberus and they've passed it onto their support team. Hopefully my next post will be to say that at last everything is up and running as it should be.
Standard User Retron
(learned) Mon 17-Jun-19 13:58:23
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
First of all welcome to the ever growing FTTPoD club smile

I also had similar slow-ish speeds as soon as my FTTPoD service went live, however a few hours later i was hitting > 300 Mbps after reporting this to my CP (FluidOne). It won't be an issue at Openreach's end, it willl require some tweaking at Cerberus' end.

Thank you! smile

To their credit, Cerberus responded very quickly. There's no quick tweak this time, though, as they said the order is still flagged as open on their systems, i.e. the engineer hasn't yet marked the install as complete. Until that's done they can't fiddle with any settings.

They've asked me to check again tomorrow, so hopefully by then the order will have been flagged as completed.
Standard User Retron
(learned) Mon 17-Jun-19 15:06:17
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Cerberus got back to me and suggested I try connecting the Ethernet cable from the ONT directly to a PC, then creating a dial-up PPPoE connection. Lo and behold, I was getting over 200Mbps downloads via the various testing sites.

Plug it all back in to the Netgrear XR500 router - one I bought as reviews said it could handle fast connections - and bam, back down to 5Mbps or so.

So it's the router. The default MTU is 1492, which should be fime, and I've disabled QoS... no difference. Looks like I'll be spending the afternoon on Google, rather than enjoying a nice, high-speed connection. tongue

EDIT: On second thoughts, as the BT speed checker says I don't have FTTP, I'll wait until tomorrow.

Edited by Retron (Mon 17-Jun-19 15:17:30)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Jun-19 15:18:21
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
The XR500 should easily handle a 300 Mbps line -itís a R7800 but running Duma os.
Do a hard reset on it and reconfigure from scratch.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 17-Jun-19 15:20:12
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The Netgear should be putting a lot more through than 5Meg. Have you tried resetting to defaults? Are you testing the speed on the Netgear via Wi-Fi or a wired connection to your PC?

If when wired up to the router you are still seeing such slow speeds, try different network cables, a fault in the cable could see the link speed at 10Meg rather than 1Gig on the network ports.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Retron
(learned) Mon 17-Jun-19 17:17:25
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
You and baby_frogmella get a gold star - bizarrely, despite only just having set up the router a hard reset has solved the problem. (I was using a known good patch lead and it was showing a 1Gbps connection in Windows, so cabling or using wifi wasn't the issue).

I'm now getting the speeds I should be, which is wonderful!

https://www.speedtest.net/result/8344462765
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15607879606...

"Faster than 99.9% of tests in South East England"

As my journey through FTTPoD has now reached a temporary conclusion (not the final destination, as I'll regrade and perhaps move to a cheaper ISP once my 12 months is up), I'd just like to say thank you to everyone on here - I've learned so much through these boards and I'm sure there's plenty more to come!

Edited by Retron (Mon 17-Jun-19 17:20:42)

Standard User donkay
(newbie) Mon 17-Jun-19 17:55:31
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Hi all,

Got my quote back from Cerberus as below.

Openreach provided an estimate of the build charges at £8,800.00 + VAT.
The confirmed build charge is £8,144.00 + VAT.

This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,100.00 for premises passed. A breakdown of the charges is below:
Labour £4,722.00
Stores £3,527.00
Contract Labour £0.00
Civils £750.00
Civils Stores £0.00

Tree cutting £0.00

BT Connection Charge £495.00

-£250.00
Deductions -£1,100.00

£8,144.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disappointed with that price, the surveyor has told me the agg node was close, all underground ducts to the pole were clear., 40-50 premises passed (as previously explained he thinks premises passed were those easily served by FTTPoD from the agg node).

See the picture here https://ibb.co/bzGSfsj

Fibre agg node on the right, pole middle and my home on the left. 80m node to pole, 20m pole to house.

I have replied querying the quote but will not be going ahead at that price. Was hoping for something in the 2.5-3k region. I don't see how candlerb can require 34m of new duct in road verge and it be 2k cheaper than my quote.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 17-Jun-19 18:40:00
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Does sound quite expensive, but I think where the aggregation node is just isn't a good indicator of cost.

Despite what the surveyor said, I think properties passed are 8. This is your £1100 - £700 reduction given to you as the person placing the FoD order, leaving £400 / £50 reduction per properties served = 8. Count the wires on your telegraph pole, is it 8 including yours?

Also your PCP/FTTC cabinet is at the start of Hollybush Road. So I think they will lay fibre cable from the aggregation node back up to the FTTC/PCP cabinet (around 470 metres), from here they can then follow the route your existing telephone cable takes (possibly back down on the opposite side of the road) until it arrives at your telegraph pole, then its up to the top. At the PCP they will likely need to dig and add another chamber if space is currently limited.(Note that I'm not saying the FTTC/PCP cabinets are used in anyway for FTTP, just the location is a handy point to get to as that is where your telephone cables are starting their final route to your pole, plus ducting runs up to there already from the aggregation node.)

So whilst the aggregation node isn't very far from you, they will not just connect up a single fibre direct from there for your order, as that may mean digging up the road to cross over it and breaking into existing ducts. I also think aggregation nodes are important locations that aren't meant to serve customers directly, but fibre goes out from those to a primary splitter node, which they'll place up near the PCP/FTTC cabinets, which can then be used in the future for a full FTTP build out.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Mon 17-Jun-19 18:44:39)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 17-Jun-19 18:40:57
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
Disappointing - although it seems in some cases surveyors have been talking about the location of the proposed splitter node, not the aggregation node that it connects to.

Did your written quote also give an indication of the distance to the aggregation node?
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 17-Jun-19 19:01:07
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
It's most definitely not "those easily served by FTTPoD from the agg node" that counts as premises passes.
It's only those who will share a fibre DP.

I believe your deduction of £1,100 accounts for 21 properties and yourself. It's £50 per premise passed. Unless that's your total deduction, then it's less than that.
That's a lot less than the 40-50 the surveyor quoted you.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 17-Jun-19 19:03:20)

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 17-Jun-19 19:16:28
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

In reply to a post by j0hn83:
It's most definitely not "those easily served by FTTPoD from the agg node" that counts as premises passes.
It's only those who will share a fibre DP.

I believe your deduction of £1,100 accounts for 21 properties and yourself. It's £50 per premise passed. Unless that's your total deduction, then it's less than that.
That's a lot less than the 40-50 the surveyor quoted you.


No, it's not 21 properties. The discount includes a £700 amount for some reason as a discount to the person placing the FOD order, then it's £50 discount per property that will be able to order FTTP (usually only those on the same distribution point, so in this case on the same pole, again includes the person ordering).

So the total number served can be worked out as:

(Discount amount - 700) / 50. So £1100 - £700 / 50 = 8.

The discounts can be seen at FTTP on demand pricing and looking at the section "FTTP On Demand build charges and exemptions"

Regards

Phil
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Mon 17-Jun-19 19:33:57
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

Does sound quite expensive, but I think where the aggregation node is just isn't a good indicator of cost.

Despite what the surveyor said, I think properties passed are 8. This is your £1100 - £700 reduction given to you as the person placing the FoD order, leaving £400 / £50 reduction per properties served = 8. Count the wires on your telegraph pole, is it 8 including yours?

Also your PCP/FTTC cabinet is at the start of Hollybush Road. So I think they will lay fibre cable from the aggregation node back up to the FTTC/PCP cabinet (around 470 metres), from here they can then follow the route your existing telephone cable takes (possibly back down on the opposite side of the road) until it arrives at your telegraph pole, then its up to the top. At the PCP they will likely need to dig and add another chamber if space is currently limited.(Note that I'm not saying the FTTC/PCP cabinets are used in anyway for FTTP, just the location is a handy point to get to as that is where your telephone cables are starting their final route to your pole, plus ducting runs up to there already from the aggregation node.)

So whilst the aggregation node isn't very far from you, they will not just connect up a single fibre direct from there for your order, as that may mean digging up the road to cross over it and breaking into existing ducts. I also think aggregation nodes are important locations that aren't meant to serve customers directly, but fibre goes out from those to a primary splitter node, which they'll place up near the PCP/FTTC cabinets, which can then be used in the future for a full FTTP build out.

Regards

Phil


Hi Phil, thanks for the reply, I get the premises past thing now which looks correct looking at my pole.

Regarding the PCP/FTTC cab on Hollybush Road. The closest one of those is on Dan Y Coed Road opposite Nant Fawr Road I think? Surveyor said it was the agg node for sure where I've circled on the picture. Under the previous pricing scheme I was Band A <200 metres.

Hoping to get some more info from Cerberus/OR regarding this as it doesn't make much sense.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 17-Jun-19 19:57:41
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Regarding the PCP/FTTC cab on Hollybush Road. The closest one of those is on Dan Y Coed Road opposite Nant Fawr Road I think?


Ah yes, could well be that one that is serving your property. You can find out by going to https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and looking up your BT telephone number or using your address, it will give you the cabinet number, which will be written (usually) on the cabinet on the road.

Either way if they are needing to run fibre up to that PCP in order to then utitlise your existing copper cable run to get back to your pole, distance wise it's still a lot more than just 50 metres.

I know it often doesn't make sense but then we aren't seeing the full picture, what might seem simple for us as laypeople can be hiding complexities we just don't realise.

Let us know how you get on with your query with them.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Retron
(learned) Tue 18-Jun-19 07:42:14
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
I know it often doesn't make sense but then we aren't seeing the full picture, what might seem simple for us as laypeople can be hiding complexities we just don't realise.

I have a suspicion that the overall prices quoted by the surveys have gone up a notch or too as well.

For example, my ag node is a minimum of 650m away from my house, and judging by the roadworks it could well be the full 1110m to the exchange.

Even before the complications (blocked ducts, of which there were a couple), the route was fiddly - the fibre came from the ag node along ducts along a main road, doubled-back through the same duct and then went up along some poles on my road, before coming over to "my" pole and to the house.

650m (as a minimum) for £3600 works out as just over £5.50 a metre. If, as I suspect, the ag node is by the exchange, that drops to £3.30 or so a metre.

The quotes from around February this year seem to have had a much higher cost-per-metre, or at least where the distances are known. I suspect that cases like mine (which would have cost a lot more than I paid) have forced them to bump the prices they charge up (especially for things like labour, which aren't quantified on the price scales on OR's site).

Just a thought, but it'd explain why some of these quotes for seemingly tiny distances end up costing so much!
Standard User brookheather
(member) Tue 18-Jun-19 10:50:36
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
I'm now getting the speeds I should be, which is wonderful!

https://www.speedtest.net/result/8344462765
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15607879606...

Your single threaded download speed still seems a little on the low side - I get over 300Mbps on both single and multi threaded downloads:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15538575517...

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + Asus RT-AC67U AiMesh
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Jun-19 11:53:19
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
I have a suspicion that the overall prices quoted by the surveys have gone up a notch or too as well.


If comparing to the old pricing, its debatable whether overall prices have gone up or down. Personally I think they're roughly the same. However the one-off install costs have definitely gone up, in order to compensate for the reduced minimum term (from 36 months to 12 months) and lower monthly costs. According to Openreach, 96% of FTTC enabled properties are within 2km of their nearest fibre aggregation node, which under the old pricing model meant that 96% of properties would have fallen into bands A-G - ie less than than £10k in one-off build costs.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Tue 18-Jun-19 15:45:25
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like Openreach are picking an optimal solution for them and then asking the FTTPoD customer to pick up the tab over an optimal solution for the FTTPoD customer (aka the cheapest).

One feels that Openreach should be quoting for the second and if they choose to make it more expensive by doing the first then that is up to them but they get to swallow the costs. The alternative would be to give a discount on the price for all those extra addresses that will now be more easily enabled for FTTP in the future.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Tue 18-Jun-19 20:10:22
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Sounds like Openreach are picking an optimal solution for them and then asking the FTTPoD customer to pick up the tab over an optimal solution for the FTTPoD customer (aka the cheapest).


Any evidence for that assertion?

The quotes which have been discussed in the forum seem to give the properties passed for FTTPoD just being those on a single pole or underground copper DP. In that case, Openreach can't be accused of piggy-backing more FTTP properties on the same order.

And as for the fibre routing: this has to follow the correct network architecture. They can't just pull random fibres here and there, otherwise they'd end up with a network which was unmanageable and unmaintainable.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Wed 19-Jun-19 17:21:55
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Slightly off topic but what is the wholesale cost of a lease line these days?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Jun-19 17:31:57
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
Slightly off topic but what is the wholesale cost of a lease line these days?


Wholesale? Don't think you'll find them anywhere but retail costs of leased lines vary massively depending on where you live, how many operators have fibre in your area, length of cabling req'd etc.

Have a peek at linebroker.co.uk for a general idea of costs.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Deft
(experienced) Wed 19-Jun-19 19:17:13
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
I had a good chat with the Openreach surveyor today on the phone, after missing him in person (no warning that the survey was imminent really!).
He confirmed that essentially the fibre path is underground all the way, and is proposing it follows the final underground duct to our property, though he confirmed they don't know if the final duct from the kerb to the edge of the property is trouble free, but they'll sort that out if needs be. He went through the major steps of the general architecture (exchange - agg node - splitter - CBT I think?). From this forum I at least had some familiarity with the terms!
He didn't quite confirm whether the agg node is at the exchange (300-500m) or actually maybe a bit closer by our high-street, the only other place there is a FTTC cab (which would be more like 150-200m).
Hopefully I should get the full cost estimate soon-ish.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 21-Jun-19 08:49:43
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Deft] [link to this post]
 
My update this week is that they are waiting for the audit to be completed. Can't be too much longer!

Mike
Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Fri 21-Jun-19 09:54:28
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
My update this week is that they are waiting for the audit to be completed. Can't be too much longer!

Depends what audit reveals - we had a wait of around 7 weeks from then until final go live date. They had install a new OCR in the exchange. That took a while to get sorted.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Fri 21-Jun-19 23:17:55
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
On the heels of the last thread about Cerberus promising Thursday updates, this week I didn't get it on that day, nor today Friday. This is the first time they have missed the update date.

I'm still waiting for the results of the full survey.

The last update I got from last Thursday just said: "awaiting ECC authorisation, the full breakdown has been provided."

So I'm not sure when the next update will arrive.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User E300
(newbie) Mon 24-Jun-19 12:37:06
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Just an update, things seem to be happening, just a bit over 3 weeks since confirming the order. Iíve seen two Openreach vans by the PCP cab and engineers around manholes (where the aggregation node is), which prompted me to check the dslchecker database, which now shows for my address FTTPoD Down-Up as 1000/220, it was always 330/30 before. I checked a couple of neighbours I know that are being enabled as well (same DP), this shows them also updated to 1000/220. I also checked for other properties on my street (13 houses different DPs) and even the houses the opposite end are all showing 1000/220, including one of the roads that goes off from mine that has a pre-planning notice for a new pole. Are they also getting native FTTP?

Iím not getting my hopes up this means things will progress quickly from here as any number of issues could cause things to be delayed, but nice to see something happening. Last update from Cerberus last week was "Chase sent to planning for an update on the timescales, we are expecting for this to be progressed and estimates raised."
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 24-Jun-19 12:53:24
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
Just an update, things seem to be happening, just a bit over 3 weeks since confirming the order. Iíve seen two Openreach vans by the PCP cab and engineers around manholes (where the aggregation node is), which prompted me to check the dslchecker database, which now shows for my address FTTPoD Down-Up as 1000/220, it was always 330/30 before. I checked a couple of neighbours I know that are being enabled as well (same DP), this shows them also updated to 1000/220. I also checked for other properties on my street (13 houses different DPs) and even the houses the opposite end are all showing 1000/220, including one of the roads that goes off from mine that has a pre-planning notice for a new pole. Are they also getting native FTTP?


Possibly. However don't take anything for granted until the checker shows 'WBC FTTP' instead of 'FTTP On Demand' for the neighbouring properties irrespective of the speed shown. Not sure if you're aware but BT Wholesale don't sell anything above 330/30 on FTTPoD.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User brookheather
(member) Mon 24-Jun-19 12:58:30
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
Are they also getting native FTTP?

Short answer - no. Just means the database for the local properties has been updated to reflect the higher maximum FTTP speeds available at the exchange. Same thing happened during my FTTPoD install.

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + Asus RT-AC67U AiMesh
Standard User wifigeek
(knowledge is power) Mon 24-Jun-19 15:32:07
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Following the onsite survey, we have now received the confirmed FTTP on Demand Build Charge from Openreach.



The installation costs for this order are below and confirmed on the attached quote.

Openreach did not provide an estimate of the build charges.

The confirmed build charge is £13,829.00 + VAT

This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,300.00 for premises passed. A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour


£5,446.00

Contract Labour


£748.00

Civils


£3,890.00

Stores


£4,800.00

Civils Stores


£0.00

Tree cutting


£0.00


BT Connection Charge


£495.00


Deductions


-£250.00

Deductions


-£1,300.00


Total


£13,829.00


For < 800M. the estate opposite has FTTP (new-build development) so I expected it to be significantly less. Openreach engineer told me they may approach from the opposite side of the town (where the other aggr node is) and across the wasteland; putting up telegraph poles. this seems to be reflected in the addresses covered listed.

far too high when I can get 80mbit+ via the 4G mast opposite. im out.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 24-Jun-19 18:14:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: wifigeek] [link to this post]
 
Just to be clear: when you asked for a free desktop quote, did they say they were unable to provide one and you'd have to pay the survey fee to proceed?
Standard User wifigeek
(knowledge is power) Mon 24-Jun-19 19:47:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
thats right. desktop quote could not provide any figures.
Standard User Earlgrey
(learned) Tue 25-Jun-19 07:12:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: wifigeek] [link to this post]
 
Got my onsite survey quote back,

The desktop survey couldn't provide a price.

The confirmed build charge is £8,015.00 + VAT

This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,300.00 for premises passed.

A breakdown of the charges is below:
Labour £4,735.00
Contract Labour £0.00
Civils £750.00
Stores £3,585.00
Civils Stores £0.00
Tree cutting £0.00

BT Connection Charge £495.00

Deductions -£250.00
Deductions -£1,300.00

Total £8,015.00

Not great, but not horrifying either. Regardless it is double what i could justify spending for the benefit id get from FTTP

12 properties passed but at least 4 are rentals and with everyone getting 70+ on FTTC i cant see much appetite for contributing £800 sadly.

At least it suggests it wont be prohibitively expensive for openreach to deploy FTTP when fiber first starts covering smaller towns.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Tue 25-Jun-19 07:28:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Earlgrey] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the info. It's nice to see someone in the "unable to quote" group getting a somewhat reasonable price.

In reply to a post by Earlgrey:
...it is double what i could justify spending for the benefit id get from FTTP

12 properties passed but at least 4 are rentals and with everyone getting 70+ on FTTC i cant see much appetite for contributing £800 sadly.


Or you could just find one person who wants FTTP as much as you, and is happy to pay half.
Standard User Earlgrey
(learned) Wed 26-Jun-19 06:57:15
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I hope it gives a bit of optimism to anyone that's had "unable to quote"

There's one or two people that might be interested but they seem pretty satisfied now FTTC is available,

There was a group people that began to set up a community fibre group prior to the FTTC being installed but they are a couple of streets away, and there's no guarantee any FTTPoD installation to me will make it cheaper for them to install later (it should, but the whims of cable routing could scupper it)
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Jun-19 09:02:51
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Earlgrey] [link to this post]
 
Audit complete is my update this week. I keep saying it but it canít be long now!

Mike
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Mon 01-Jul-19 11:12:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
Audit complete is my update this week. I keep saying it but it canít be long now!

It really isn't long now. You just need the appoint to install the ONT and you should be good to go.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Jul-19 17:22:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Coming on Wednesday! Iím not back until Thursday so Iíll have to get the wife running Speedtests in the meantime!

Mike
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Mon 01-Jul-19 17:24:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
Coming on Wednesday! Iím not back until Thursday so Iíll have to get the wife running Speedtests in the meantime!

Awesome. If its like my house, you will still need to plug it on Thursday when you get back.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Jul-19 18:26:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Detailed instructions are being written ...

Mike
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Mon 01-Jul-19 18:50:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
For the people who have received their full paid survey's, how long did it take to come back?

I was looking through the dates and it's approaching 6 months since I requested and paid for the full survey.

I posted a couple of weeks ago about Cerberus missing my weekly update. You'll be glad to know it resumed after 2 weeks. But it was the same update that it had been 2 weeks prior i.e. 'awaiting ECC authorisation, the full breakdown has been provided.'.

Does anyone know what waiting for ECC authorisation means?

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-Jul-19 19:20:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
ECC refers to 'Excess Construction Charges' which Openreach may pass onto the customer - they are usually in the £1000s. Under the old FTTPoD pricing (construction band based) it was rare for Openreach to hit the customer with ECCs but I've no idea how common they are under the current pricing model. Best to wait & see.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 01-Jul-19 19:22:29)

Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Tue 02-Jul-19 09:34:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Six months seems very long for the survey, i think most people get them back within four to eight weeks. Have you contacted them to find out why its been so long?
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Tue 02-Jul-19 10:20:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
I'll see what this Thursdays update says then I'll contact them, especially if it ends up being the same update I've had twice already.

The guy did the survey months ago as I saw him. So not sure what's taking so long.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
ISP Representative GenuineCerberus
(isp) Tue 02-Jul-19 14:16:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bowden

Please can you PM your name and order reference so we can chase up your confirmed build charges please.

Thank you
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 03-Jul-19 10:14:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Here's my installation progress update.

Survey ordered 10th March 2018; confirmed pricing and go-ahead 26th June 2018 (53 weeks ago). Between then and December various duct unblocking was done, along with digging of 34m of new duct identified in the survey, down one side of a quiet lane.

In December 2018 it was decided that a further 164m of new duct was required due to congestion, extending the first 34m - and I am pleased to say this has at last been done. It took about two days to do the trenching, laying of ducts linking existing chambers, and concreting over; and another day and a half to put the asphalt surface on top.

Next I presume it will be handed back to the cabling team to have another go.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Wed 03-Jul-19 17:46:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Just a quick update, had a lot of activity by Openreach along my street and down towards the FTTC cab where the aggregation node happens to be as well, several vans and several staff, and here all day. Appears they have roped the route from my DP to the aggregation node with the usual blue nylon rope (route is all underground), as that is the only thing seen going in via various manhole covers.

I suspect the next stage is waiting for another team to come along and pull in the fibre, assuming no blockages found.

Good to see some activity, just hope the next stage doesn't take weeks or months to happen.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 03-Jul-19 21:41:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Well apparently the engineer did not turn up for work today. Frustrating lack of any comms from either Openreach or Cerberus until we chased mid-afternoon. No news of a reschedule yet.

Mike
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 04-Jul-19 16:53:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I finally got the survey back today.

Openreach provided an initial estimate of the build charges at £11,800.00 + VAT

The confirmed build charge is £8,935.00 + VAT

This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,300.00 for premises passed. A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour: £4,970.00
Contract Labour: £625.00
Civils: £950.00
Stores: £3,445.00
Civils Stores: £0.00
Tree cutting: £0.00

BT Connection Charge: £495.00

Deductions -£250.00
Deductions -£1,300.00

Total: £8,935.00


At £8,935.00 + VAT its just out of my financial reach. I was thinking it might have been about 50 or 60% of the original desktop price i.e. between £6000 to £7000. I would have gone for it at that price.

I'd like to thank Cerberus for giving me the opportunity to attempt to get full fibre. I just hope it doesnt take many years to reach me in the future.

Does anyone know what Stores is?

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 04-Jul-19 17:02:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Stores is just materials, i.e. what they use out of their stores of materials. Just a term they tend to use with civil engineering.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Deft
(experienced) Thu 04-Jul-19 21:04:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Got my survey costing through today also:
My rough timeline
Desktop quote order 12th May 2019
Desktop quote received 22nd May 2019 - not possible to give desktop quote
Field survey ordered 22nd May 2019
Confirmed build charges received 4th July 2019

Broadly it seems like this is the cost for underground all the way, in the range of about 300m, but I never got the confirmation of position of agg node or exact route.

The confirmed build charge is £8,535.00 + VAT
This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,000.00 for premises passed. A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour £5,135.00
Contract Labour £0.00
Civils £750.00
Stores £3,405.00
Civils Stores £0.00
Tree cutting £0.00
BT Connection Charge £495.00
Deductions -£250.00
Deductions -£1,000.00
Total £8,535.00 ex VAT

So there were 5 other properties passed - my neighbours all in one direction (I was the last house in the group).

I think £10K inc. VAT is a stretch too far for a simple residential customer. Probably unrealistic to get something super cheap but at £5-6K inc. VAT would have swung it back to do-able. Oh well.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Fri 05-Jul-19 10:31:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Deft] [link to this post]
 
I hope that when OR are rolling out their FTTP programme that they have recorded were people asked for a FTTPoD installation, then they know they have at least one person who will buy FTTP.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jul-19 14:28:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Update yesterday from Ceberus was waiting for a new appointment after the no show on Wednesday. Openreach turned up at the door earlier, were surprised at the reel of fibre outside as apparently that is what they came to do, said next step was an an appointment to fit the ONT, and went away again ... He also said there wasn't anyone off on Wednesday.

Mike
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Fri 05-Jul-19 14:37:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Update yesterday from Ceberus was waiting for a new appointment after the no show on Wednesday. Openreach turned up at the door earlier, were surprised at the reel of fibre outside as apparently that is what they came to do, said next step was an an appointment to fit the ONT, and went away again ... He also said there wasn't anyone off on Wednesday.


Hi

Seems to be quite a common theme, with Openreach and FTTP on Demand a disorganised mess that isn't taken at all very seriously, with paying customers who have paid upfront for the work left wondering what is going on. I'm guessing FTTP on Demand falls outside any OFCOM related SLA or compensation scheme for delays or missed appointments which is why this all happens.

Your report on cancelled appointments and engineers turning up unannounced to do work they then claim is already done appears fairly often in these threads.

All you can do is raise the issue with Cerberus and hope Openreach start talking to each other internally.

The only positive is that you will get connected eventually.

Regards

Phil
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Tue 09-Jul-19 15:30:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I finally got the survey back today.

Openreach provided an initial estimate of the build charges at £11,800.00 + VAT

The confirmed build charge is £8,935.00 + VAT

This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,300.00 for premises passed. A breakdown of the charges is below:

Labour: £4,970.00
Contract Labour: £625.00
Civils: £950.00
Stores: £3,445.00
Civils Stores: £0.00
Tree cutting: £0.00

BT Connection Charge: £495.00

Deductions -£250.00
Deductions -£1,300.00

Total: £8,935.00


At £8,935.00 + VAT its just out of my financial reach. I was thinking it might have been about 50 or 60% of the original desktop price i.e. between £6000 to £7000. I would have gone for it at that price.

I'd like to thank Cerberus for giving me the opportunity to attempt to get full fibre. I just hope it doesnt take many years to reach me in the future.

Does anyone know what Stores is?


There is stores and Civils stores. Based on my order Civils stores would be things like ducting, ground boxes etc. Stores would be the fibre itself, ONT, the connector blocks, the brackets for the ground boxes.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 10-Jul-19 18:07:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Well the good news is that we now have FTTPoD delivered and working. Not a smooth journey though.

After the no-show last week Openreach called me out of the blue this morning to get access. This is a problem as I'm away and not back until tomorrow evening. Luckily the wife was at home. Then the luck ran out as almost the engineer's first action was to drill through a pipe in the wall. A long story short he finished the install after the water was turned off and the damage reported.

After some back and forwards with an Openreach manager and Cerebus a plumber turned up and fixed the leak. They have though left a big whole in the wall which Openreach have promised to make good.

The actual fibre bit was much more successful. I was able to talk the wife through setting up PPPoE on the Netgear Orbi and it is all working fine with speeds in the accepted range. Clearly I will run many more speedtests when I am home tomorrow.

Mike
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 10-Jul-19 18:50:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Hi @abat

I bet you are glad the journey has now ended, what a nightmare. These sort of tales are why I argue that everyone getting congratulatory over Openreach's latest "Properties passed" figures for FTTP doesn't really say much, they still have to actually connect up 20+ million properties, and when they can't deal with connections totalling around 20 a month (as there are with FTTP on Demand) without making so many silly errors from clerical to damaging peoples property, there is no hope of connecting the entire UK up to FTTP and retiring copper, certainly not in the next 50 to 60 years at least!

Why are Openreach sending engineers without an appointment being made? Just complete incompetence. I hope some compensation is forthcoming for your damage, stress and hassle.

Regards

Phil
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 11-Jul-19 19:29:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Ookla Speedtest


My Broadband Speed Test

Mike
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Thu 11-Jul-19 22:20:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Very nice, although why aren't you getting nearer the 330?

Draytek 2862.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 13-Jul-19 11:01:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Partly due to the conditions I was doing the test on I think. A better result, still not 330 on the TBB test although this same PC gives 350 at fast.com which I am not sure I believe. This PC is upstairs on a satellite Netgear Orbi (but they have ethernet backhaul between them).

Clearly wireless and even a low powered MacBook connected by a USB ethernet adapter don't fair as well. I've never really had a connection where the internal state of my network mattered because it was always better than the speed to the outside world.

My Broadband Speed Test


Ooka Speedtest showing 309

Mike
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 14-Jul-19 09:54:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Ah ok.

It just seems weird as one would think you would get the full 330 as this is what i assumed full fibre meant.

No losses, crosstalk etc.

Draytek 2862.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-Jul-19 10:24:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
Like with DSL, full fibre still has overheads so a 330 Mbps connection won't give you more than ~ 310 Mbps in actual throughput. On a 1 Gig FTTP line, you'll get around 900 Mbps in throughput. But of course the beauty of FTTP is that you get the speed you pay for, after overheads are taken into account (excluding contention).

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Tue 16-Jul-19 17:15:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Is that why Cerberus only advertise 300/30?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Jul-19 17:28:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by darren_mccoy:
Is that why Cerberus only advertise 300/30?

Yep. Similar to BT Retail advertising their Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus (FTTP) service as 300/49, despite having a connection or 'sync' rate of 330/50.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 16-Jul-19 17:30:33)

Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Tue 23-Jul-19 12:15:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I got a call from an Openreach surveyor today, he's coming on Saturday to do my survey and wanted me to be home. Any questions i should ask him apart from where the aggregation node is?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Jul-19 12:37:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
Make sure you're totally happy with the proposed cable routing, both external & internal. Don't agree to anything you're not comfortable with.

You'll most likely be given the the newer single port ONT but if you plan on having multiple FTTP services in the future then try to request a 4 lan port ONT - it could save you hassle in the future.

Oh and offer plenty of tea/coffee & snacks to the Openreach employee smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 23-Jul-19 12:38:51)

Standard User dect
(committed) Tue 23-Jul-19 14:01:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
You'll most likely be given the the newer single port ONT but if you plan on having multiple FTTP services in the future then try to request a 4 lan port ONT - it could save you hassle in the future.
We will soon have to stop calling it the newer single port ONT (aka the 1+1 ONT) once they start to ship the even newer single port ONT (aka 1+0 ONT). Hopefully someone will post details/pics of it once they start to get installed.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 23-Jul-19 18:09:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I believe it will be identical to the single port ONT that currently hides alongside the BBU in the housing....

Standard User dect
(committed) Tue 23-Jul-19 22:21:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I believe it will be identical to the single port ONT that currently hides alongside the BBU in the housing....
That's very interesting, many thanks Zarjaz
Standard User Disca
(learned) Wed 24-Jul-19 12:27:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Small update on my build (paid for on the 5/6). Cablers (openreach van with 3 employees) have made it to outside my house - one blockage only on route about 50m down the road by the sounds of it. They are sending out a crew to try and clear the blockage but the chap I spoke to suspected it will have to be dug up to repair (in the middle of someones drive apparantly - oops!) which will result in a delay. Overall quite pleased with progress to date, glad they have actually started.

Edited by Disca (Wed 24-Jul-19 12:27:45)

Standard User ninocass
(newbie) Fri 26-Jul-19 18:40:15
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Disca] [link to this post]
 
Hi All

We are currently on FTTC with BT and are at the far end of the cable run so we get 30/4 speeds.

The BT checker has FTTP not available and there are no plans to enable it, however FTTPoD is available at 330/30.

I had an openreach engineer out to find a fault on the line a few weeks ago, he checked and the fibre node was about 300 yards away, we are on an estate so its fully ducted from the node right to my property, so I'm hoping the costs will be not too insane! (has anyone had similar quoted?)

BT fobbed me off to Openreach who directed me to a list of FTTPoD providers. I've put in a request with Cerberus Networks and Amvia, I assume this is the best way of going about this?

Thanks
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 26-Jul-19 19:09:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: ninocass] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ninocass:
We are currently on FTTC with BT and are at the far end of the cable run so we get 30/4 speeds.
<snip>
the fibre node was about 300 yards away

If you're only getting 30/4 on FTTC, that suggests your line length is at least 1000m to the FTTC cabinet. A fibre aggregation node is usually not too far away from the FTTC cab(s) it serves, therefore expect a similar distance to your nearest agg node as a rough guide. Take what the Openreach bod told you with a huge pinch of salt (he could have been referring to a splitter node or DP) and wait for the desktop survey quote from Cerberus. But don't be surprised if it comes out at a 5 figure sum.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 26-Jul-19 19:12:13)

Standard User ninocass
(newbie) Fri 26-Jul-19 19:25:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Yep your spot on we are around 1000m from the cab.

We run a business from home so Iím hoping we may qualify for the business voucher scheme that is being ran.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sun 28-Jul-19 10:03:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: ninocass] [link to this post]
 
If you can provide evidence, thats all you need for the voucher, but your provider has to apply for it.

I am self employed working from home, not vat registered and not a limited company and i sent copies of a supplier invoice and recent tax statement and was successful.

GBVS will then send you an email confirming you haver requested it, and for you to fill out and submit copies of your info.

They will then notify your provider directly of the result, who then should pass the info on to you.

GBVS will not notify you either way after application.

Draytek 2862.
Standard User darren_mccoy
(newbie) Sun 28-Jul-19 12:52:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
I was talking to the Openreach surveyor on Saturday. The Aggregation node is right next to my FTTC cab which is 1.5Km from my house. 600m of the current copper line is buried in the verge beside the road, no ducting, right in the soil. He couldn't understand why but said the install will be expensive because of this. They will either install phone line poles at £600 per pole or plough a trench along the same path as the existing line. I'm still hoping it will be cheaper than my desktop survey £21800 but I'm more prepared that it will be close to this.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Mon 29-Jul-19 10:41:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
There are many miles of direct buried cables in the network.

Draytek 2862.
Standard User dect
(committed) Mon 29-Jul-19 11:22:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: darren_mccoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by darren_mccoy:
600m of the current copper line is buried in the verge
600m of directly buried cable will certainly add to the price sadly

In reply to a post by darren_mccoy:
They will either install phone line poles at £600 per pole or plough a trench along the same path as the existing line.
Someone here may know the exact distance allowed between telephone poles carrying fibre but I think I recall 70 metre so if I'm correct would mean around 9 poles which would add about 5k to your quote (based on the price per pole you stated), alternatively 600m of duct laying I would expect to be even more costly.
Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Thu 01-Aug-19 13:26:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I hope that when OR are rolling out their FTTP programme that they have recorded were people asked for a FTTPoD installation, then they know they have at least one person who will buy FTTP.


I ordered a survey after getting a £9700+vat desktop quote - detailing the need for a 1000m - 1500m connection to the nearest agnode. That was about three weeks ago. I got a reply from the company saying that there were delays in getting the survey as FTTPoD was unexpectedly in high demand.

This morning a really pleasant chap from OpenReach unexpectedly knocked at my door with a plan to connect me to an agnode just a few houses up - One which hasn't even been installed yet - and they are installing another one across the road! I hope they don't expect me to pay for all that! He did say he was surveying the whole road and had instructions to specifically visit me whilst he was about it.

The fibre line is to comes from my existing telephone pole, with quite a short looking run, from there to the new node.

So are they bringing native fibre to the village I wonder ? I can't find anything anywhere about it at all anywhere. It's in Wickersley Rotherham. He did mumble something about BDUK but on their site they mention only Sunnyside which is a village not so far away.

Ours is a long road, and we are quite a way from our FTTC cab about 800 meters, which means less than 30 mbits down and 6 mbits up. I'm synced at 29995 mbits/sec

Anyway - it cheered me up a bit. I will have to see how much they actually want. But there isn't much point in paying for FTTPoD if they are going to give us native connections. If they aren't why would they be installing new agnodes so nearby ?

For ages and ages our FTTC cab (cabinet 2) has been over subscribed. Occasionally it becomes available but never for very long. Always on a waiting list. I was lucky to get connected to it. It already has an extension cab next to it. Perhaps that's a reason why they are doing this instead of trying to upgrade the full cabinet even more.

Interesting times we live in!

Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by shaunhw (Thu 01-Aug-19 13:48:08)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-19 14:13:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
Aggregation nodes are usually located to serve something like 1,400 premises, so while smaller areas will be served if the location suggested would only cover a handful, then more likely there are talking the splitter - each aggregation node feeds a number of splitters.

If there are others beyond your 800m distance you may be seeing some BDUK roll-out, which does tend to happen with little fanfare.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 01-Aug-19 15:34:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
The guy is definitely confused.

Unless your street has over 1400 new properties branching off from it there's not a hope in helps chance that they are installing another 2 Aggregation Nodes across the street from each other.

As MrSaffron suggests the surveyor was almost certainly talking about Splitter Nodes.

The Aggregation Node that already serves your FTTC cabinet will almost certainly be the 1 you will be connected to.

An Aggregation Node usually serves 3 or 4 Fibre cabinets, and can cover around 1400 premises for FTTP as well as the Fibre cabinets.

The Aggregation Nodes were placed during the FTTC rollout with a future FTTP rollout in mind.

Between the single Aggregation Node (already in place) and the 1400 premises there would be many Splitter Nodes and even more Fibre Distribution Points installed, but no other Aggregation Nodes.

I can't think of any reason another 2 Agg Nodes would be needed across the road from each other.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 01-Aug-19 15:35:50)

Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Thu 01-Aug-19 15:47:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi MrSaffron - Thanks for your reply.

Well you could be right of course, given your in depth knowledge of these things.

However his drawing definitely said "agnode" on it, marked up in red, and from there the single fibre line would go up the existing pole almost outside our house, to a passive optical splitter where 12 (in my case) of the neighbours could also be connected, sharing that single line in the ground, connected to whatever it really is. He explained that part in great detail. Everyone downloading at full 330mps that would need 4 gb/sec on its own, and I believe it's currently shared at 2.3gb/sec downwards.

Would the splitter (if this is a splitter) in the ground also result in fibre bandwidth sharing as well as (in my case) at the pole ? Or do these serve to spilt incoming fibre bundles into single fibre lines possibly to go up the telegraph pole to the passive splitter, or an underground one where actual optical bandwidth sharing then does take place ?

He didn't tell me what was happening with the rest of the road, only there was to be another agnode (his words) on the other side. Possibly these are distribution points or something.

The discussion started when I asked him where the agnode actually was, as it would possibly affect how much I had to pay. He then said "Oh, you know about agnodes then ?", and went into some detail - and that I would be connected to a new one yet to be installed. Perhaps I am being charged for that and the line(s) back to the main node over a kilometre away!

Who knows. We will have to see what the quote ends up as. If I can afford it, it doesn't matter how it all works apart from it is very interesting. But installing the splitter/dp/agnode/whatever would enable far more of us than the 12 premises our pole would serve, to be much more easily connected. We shall see. Normally FTTPoD is a single fibre straight out to the agnode, with a splitter at the user's end, where neighbours can share the very expensive connection very cheaply. Not that I would mind that of course.


But he said as far as I was concerned I would be connected to a point in the ground yet to be installed which much nearer my house than was expected and the charge should relate just to that aspect for a FTTPod order.

Sunnyside being connected to full fibre by 2020 is the area mentioned on the BDUK site, but it is on the same Wickersley exchange as we are, so they might be doing more rollout than just the Sunnyside area. It would be strange just to be doing Sunnyside, as they are really well served by FTTC and don't have any over subscribed cabinets unlike us on the south side of the exchange.

Thanks again.
Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-19 17:51:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
An aggregation node to serve just 12 premises is plain daft. Given the density of the area it is possible that one is being added but serves a lot more premises but without knowing where you are located hard to say more.

In terms of space in ground or on a pole, there is not much difference between an aggregation node and a spliter, beyond splitters comprise of one side of splice trays, while the aggregation node has trays on both sides to cope with all the fibres running off to the downstream splitters.

On the BDUK they don't use a BDUK FTTP intervention to roll-out to a much wider area, they will usually only do the sub 30 Mbps premises and tend to concentrate on the sub 15 Mbps ones first. So maybe some of cabinet 16 area will get FTTP which fits the Sunnyside area.

"Normally FTTPoD is a single fibre straight out to the agnode, with a splitter at the user's end, where neighbours can share the very expensive connection very cheaply"

Oh no its not, a running a single fibre strand cable is never done for this sort of thing, you always run something with some spares and FoD will be built so that whatever sized fibre cable would be needed if they were planning a full FTTP roll-out in the area. You pay a bigger than your share but that is part of the penalty for jumping the queue.

The splitter at the users end can a good distance from the actual user, the bit that is closest is the fibre manifold to which the individual fibre to the person who orders is connected to.

Have you actually agreed to the costs given in your survey? Since they would not go ahead with FoD unless you had agreed with initial quote and paid the full survey fee.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 01-Aug-19 19:56:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
I'd be very wary of going ahead with FTTPoD Shaun until you know what all that work is.

If it is for native FTTP, which is what it sounds like to me, however it is being organised and financed, then once that is available it is bog standard ISP installation charges of exactly the same amount in BT's case as FTTC.

If you pay a wodge for FTTPoD then a week later everyone else can get it far cheaper, you wouldn't be very happy.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Thu 01-Aug-19 20:10:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Have you actually agreed to the costs given in your survey? Since they would not go ahead with FoD unless you had agreed with initial quote and paid the full survey fee.


No I've not paid as yet, and have no idea exactly how much it might be, because the surveyor only called this morning so I haven't got a full quote back yet. But he said he was surveying the whole area so was looking at mine at the same time.

As we are all sub 30mbits here (I get about 27-28mb/sec on this site's speed test) it might be a part of a rollout, as the further south on our road you go, the worse the speeds are.

The strange thing is that across our road from the houses with the poorest speeds (sub 25mb) there's a new (last year) cabinet (cab 58) that serves only a side road opposite it (who were all converted from exchange only lines last year) along with some of the adjacent new houses on a side road very near it, with the other new houses on that street being connected to our cabinet, (cab 2) probably being the ones which were built first. They'll have the slowest speeds of all on our cabinet I think.

Our Wickersley exchange serves about 10,000 properties - so there may well be more than one aggregation node around, but I agree that I couldn't see the need for two in the area where I live, so yes they are probably splitters as you say. Maybe the engineer used that term because I mentioned it, who knows. But he had both of them written on his plan as agnode for sure.

It's passive optical splitters on the top of the telephone poles which will serve the individual properties - with fibre cables going off from those to the two new underground devices the surveyor said they are fitting, which will serve an unknown extra number of premises - Probably from other telegraph poles as everyone round here is connected to them via copper lines. I got the impression that this is going to happen regardless of what I decide to do with FTTPoD

Thanks again for your further reply,
Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by shaunhw (Thu 01-Aug-19 20:15:30)

Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Thu 01-Aug-19 20:27:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I'd be very wary of going ahead with FTTPoD Shaun until you know what all that work is.

If it is for native FTTP, which is what it sounds like to me, however it is being organised and financed, then once that is available it is bog standard ISP installation charges of exactly the same amount in BT's case as FTTC.

If you pay a wodge for FTTPoD then a week later everyone else can get it far cheaper, you wouldn't be very happy.


I've heard that they cancel FTTPoD orders if native FTTP is scheduled and I might get such a notification - I've read about others getting them. But yes, I agree entirely with your advice of caution. smile

The only caveat is that if they are going to bring native FTTP here, is my own address included in the scheme anyway ? Judging by the placement of those splitters (or whatever) on that map the surveyor showed me, it looks as if it would be, but one never knows with these things.

No doubt all will be revealed in the coming months!

Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 01-Aug-19 21:15:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
As we are all sub 30mbits here (I get about 27-28mb/sec on this site's speed test) it might be a part of a rollout, as the further south on our road you go, the worse the speeds are.


I'm not sure if you technically qualify as being under 30Mb or not.

You mentioned a sync speed of 29995 which could be an artificial cap on the line.
To me that sync speed suggests the DLM may have capped your line, it may be able to achieve more than it currently syncs at.

Does your modem show a max attainable rate or further stats like SNRM?
Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Fri 02-Aug-19 09:52:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
I'm not sure if you technically qualify as being under 30Mb or not.

You mentioned a sync speed of 29995 which could be an artificial cap on the line.
To me that sync speed suggests the DLM may have capped your line, it may be able to achieve more than it currently syncs at.

Does your modem show a max attainable rate or further stats like SNRM?


Hi - Your assumptions are quite correct!

Yes, it does show a higher attainable rate - currently about 36322 mps (but that goes up and down like a yo-yo) but I can never attain that. - Someone said interleaving affected that, and I'm on 461 down, and fastpath up.

I bought my present house in April, having moved from round the corner, so had to get a new connection. Easier said than done because most of the time you can't order anything at all apart from ADSL, but I got lucky as my ISP was prepared to deal with the waiting list for me.

When the VDSL connection went live, I got synced at about 29000 ish with all default settings, so I tweaked the Draytek's "vdsl snr" delta figure so it dropped the downstream SNR to 3db to see how well it worked. Then I managed to sync at around 34,000 and it seemed pretty stable. No resyncs or anything.

However We had some very poor led G10 lights in the upstairs hallway (now replaced) where the router is located, causing more than unacceptable error seconds, so I got capped! I might have been capped anyway - but it seemed really stable when the lights were not turned on. Unfortunately there was a period where I couldn't keep the lights off because the plumber was refitting my bathroom the day the connection went live! I could see the attainable rate drop dramatically when I switched those wretched leds on, and there was one very near where the router is placed. I took that lamp out, but I think it was probably too late by then. Of course there was also the plumber's power tools....

So now I can STILL only reach this cap, (29995) if I put the snr to less than 5 db. I currently have it at 4.8 and the line is stable and works for weeks. Reducing the snr further, makes no difference so it is clearly a cap.

Despite the connection working continuously well over a couple of weeks, with very few ES etc., the management system did not remove that cap.

BUT - If I set the snr delta to 0 so the Draytek doesn't try to "lie" to the cabinet I sync at around 29000 or less which is then under their cap limit. I guess their software must have rumbled my snr deceptions!

I am using a Draytek 2862 connected to a ECI cabinet about 800 metres away.

So no - I'm not over the 30mbits/second really.

The fact I can even get 29995 is down to my meddling with the router, because with the router modem's default settings I can't even get that!

If I was connected to an Huawei cab with G.INP, vectoring, and 3db profiles and all those tweaks I'd do much better, but right now I can only sync at the cap, if I fiddle the snr figures a bit.

So, all things set as they should be - yes I am under 30mbs!

Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 02-Aug-19 10:45:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
If there is a risk, which I doubt but could be wrong, that you may be denied FTTP because your speed is too high, when all around you have lower speeds so get it, tweaking the system to attain the higher speed may not be the best thing to do.

Given what SIN 498 says, ĒNote : It is the DLM system that sets the line profile, and this should not be interfered with by CPs/users setting rates, SNR margins etc. at the modemĒ, Openreach may not be particularly sympathetic if this did happen.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User shaunhw
(experienced) Fri 02-Aug-19 12:47:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ok - I took your advice and turned it off now. vdsl snr (delta) = 0. Some relevant stats are now:

- - - - - - - - - - - - Downstream - - - - - - Upstream
Actual Rate - - - - 29396 Kbps- - - - - - - 5829 Kbps
Attainable Rate- - 34111 Kbps - - - - - - - 5866 Kbps
Path Mode - - - - - Interleave - - - - - - - - Fast
Interleave Depth- 429 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1
SNR Margin- - - - 6 dB- - - - - - - - - - - - 6 dB
Attenuation- - - - 28 dB - - - - - - - - - - - 40 dB

As you can see, sync speed is now below the cap I seem to have and I'll leave it there at least for now.

Cheers,
Shaun.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by shaunhw (Fri 02-Aug-19 13:05:06)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 02-Aug-19 14:59:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: shaunhw] [link to this post]
 
if this is a BDUK roll-out then have seen overlaps for those on edges getting the option to order, and a small number where people with 40 Mbps VDSL2 can get FTTP option.

Tweaking your speeds to slip just under 30 Mbps is not going to change what happens now - also they would not plan off of the max speed but look at a combination of factors or just go off of their own paper records for line length to the DP

In short it is wait and see time.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Retron
(learned) Fri 02-Aug-19 15:26:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Unusually, one of the engineers who worked on my install has posted a comment about it to a public forum - a reply to a KentOnline (newspaper) article saying that areas of Thanet are going to get FTTP rolled-out.

"On that note, Leysdown and Bay View on Sheerness were cabled with fibre to the property recently. I was a bit taken back when BT Openreach gave me one of those jobs, it's literally the one place in ~Uk that doesn't need 250Mbit+ internet! Farms, small business parks and alike need it."


https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/fastest-bro...

I'm equally as surprised that he didn't realise that it was an FTTPoD order, and that the od bit would mean the person ordering has a very good reason for doing so. In my case, it was the faster upload speeds that I wanted, and indeed as soon as I'm able (next year, when the 12-month contract expires) I'll regrade the 300/30 connection to at least 330/50.

Edited by Retron (Fri 02-Aug-19 15:26:21)

Standard User E300
(newbie) Fri 02-Aug-19 16:05:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Update on progress (or lack of perhaps), my timeline so far:

Day 0: Confirmed and paid to go ahead

Day 30: Openreach team spend a day rodding and roping from my distribution point to the aggregation node

Day 55: A sub-contractor removes a blockage near the aggregation node (appeared about day 50 on roadworks.org)

Now on day 63.

The status updates Iíve been getting often make no sense or are out of date, for example the last two the status update has been Ďcabling in progressí despite no sign of anyone.

The newest status update is 'Blockages found, monitor and advise', however that blockage was found 33 days ago at day 30, and seemingly is already dealt with. I have asked Cerberus to enquire about this latest status update as it appears very out of date.

So out of 63 days, Openreach have managed one day so far, and a sub-contractor half a day.
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Fri 02-Aug-19 17:16:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E300:
So out of 63 days, Openreach have managed one day so far, and a sub-contractor half a day.


No surprise there then.

OR have to one of the most despised companies in the UK.

Draytek 2862.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Aug-19 20:03:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
This is a bit of a long game. I paid the big bill in November and went live middle of last month, original order was placed in September so 10 months end to end.

Mike
Standard User Alucidnation
(member) Sat 03-Aug-19 07:59:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, but they are also good at mis-quoting.

Draytek 2862.

Edited by Alucidnation (Sat 03-Aug-19 07:59:51)

Standard User dect
(committed) Sat 03-Aug-19 08:28:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Alucidnation] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alucidnation:
OR have to one of the most despised companies in the UK.
I wouldn't agree that they are despised.
Standard User E300
(newbie) Tue 06-Aug-19 17:15:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Another update, Openreach have spent a day here and fibre cable has now been pulled through, this is despite the last status update from Cerberus saying blockages. It seems I am correct in saying these status updates are very out of date as the blockage was cleared a couple of weeks ago and found earlier than that.

There is now an 8 port connectorised box in the distribution point in the pavement opposite, and Iíve been told by the OR guys that fibre is now in all the way to the aggregation node, so no more blockages.

I assume the next step is for a fibre jointer to connect the fibre up, then to test it and then if all is okay it is then like a native FTTP install with an engineer visit to run fibre from the DP to the property and install the ONT?

Feel better knowing there is some actual fibre cable in now, even if it might not be lit at the moment, feels like we are on the home straight.
Standard User steveham
(newbie) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:10:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
I have been following these threads for a while now. I have finally decided to bite the bullet and start the FTTPoD process.

Contacted Cerberus, Amvia and Fluid. So far, I am waiting for a survey, this has been paid for.

Cerberus were unable to give an estimate on costs at a desktop level but mentioned being 800 to 999m away from the nearest NGA

Fluid came back with an eye watering desktop quote for £45,000 and have suggested a lease line may be more applicable in our case.

We qualify for the gigabit voucher aswell as another business close by. We are fairly rural on a farm but have no qualms digging up our fields and putting in ducting ourselves to get as close as possible to the connection point. Surely £45,000 is way out of proportion
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:34:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: steveham] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steveham:
IContacted Cerberus, Amvia and Fluid. So far, I am waiting for a survey, this has been paid for.


Out of interest, which provider did you pay? (Technically you've already placed an order at this point, but have the option to withdraw by forfeiting your £250+VAT)

Cerberus and FluidOne ought to give you the same information at desktop level, since they're making the same request from BTW/OpenReach. Amvia are just a reseller of Cerberus.

Desktop quotes can bear little or no relation to reality, but that is certainly a hefty one.

If you're serious about digging your own ducting then take this up with the surveyor when they come, and talk to @f00ts0re who has done something similar.
Standard User steveham
(newbie) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:42:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Out of interest, which provider did you pay? (Technically you've already placed an order at this point, but have the option to withdraw by forfeiting your £250+VAT)


We paid for the survey through Amvia, they seemed to be the most engaging at the time when I was looking around, nothing against the others. This was paid a week or so ago, but the desktop quote from fluid just came out of the blue today.

I donít have an issue paying for someone to come out and survey as it will at least put my mind to rest knowing it is feasible or not.
Standard User dect
(committed) Mon 12-Aug-19 17:44:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: steveham] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steveham:
We are fairly rural on a farm but have no qualms digging up our fields and putting in ducting ourselves to get as close as possible to the connection point.
Have you looked at how you current telephone line(s) get to you? If they come across your fields via telephone poles then Openreach will probably bring fibre the same way so your unlikely to save any money by laying ducts yourself, if your existing telephone line(s) are directly buried in the ground then it could be worth considering laying ducts yourself.
Standard User quadrophenic
(newbie) Tue 13-Aug-19 07:54:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Hi, new to the forum and this discussion. Very interesting to see everyone's FTTPoD journey! I recently requested a desktop quote from Cerberus and was quoted an slightly eye watering £12,400 with only 5 properties passed. I live on a fairly densely populated housing estate. There is currently FTTC but since we live at the back of the estate the distance to the cab is about 800m therefore I get around 30mbps. I have spoken to a local openreach engineer and he told me the estate is fully ducted so it should be a reasonable quote.
There has been a new part of the estate built recently and they all have native FTTP so I assume the infrastructure is there and reasonably close by.
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed frown
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 13-Aug-19 08:32:58
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: quadrophenic] [link to this post]
 
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed

Because thatís how many other current copper connections come from the same copper DP node as your line.

Standard User dect
(committed) Tue 13-Aug-19 09:34:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: quadrophenic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed

Because thatís how many other current copper connections come from the same copper DP node as your line.
Lots of people have been (and will be) confused by the term 'properties passed' but as Zarjaz says its the number of other properties from your copper DP which is 'normally' at the top of your nearest telephone pole if you're feed overhead or footway box if you're served underground.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Tue 13-Aug-19 09:47:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: quadrophenic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
slightly eye watering £12,400 with only 5 properties passed


There's a good chance that your final bill would be less than that, maybe even half. But you'll have to pay £250+VAT to find out.

If you run a business, you may be eligible for £2,500 DCMA gigabit voucher.

In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed frown


"Properties passed" means "properties where service is available to order" - not the properties which the fibre cable goes past on its way to your property. The fibre cable can't be cut to provide service to other people.

That is, they will put in a fibre Connectorised Block Terminal (CBT) to serve you, and there are five properties altogether which can be served from that point. They'll also have WBC FTTP available (at no charge) once your FTTPoD order is fulfilled.

You could try to club together with one or two of them to share the cost, but note that the actual set of properties passed won't be finalised until the survey is complete, so it may change.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 13-Aug-19 09:57:23
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
]Someone here may know the exact distance allowed between telephone poles carrying fibre but I think I recall 70 metre so if I'm correct would mean around 9 poles which would add about 5k to your quote (based on the price per pole you stated), alternatively 600m of duct laying I would expect to be even more costly.


Alternatively Openreach could stop navel gazing and mole plough either ducting or SWA cable in the verge for a fraction of the price of either poles or traditional trenching. I can't see that happening but someone needs to put a rocket up the backside of Openreach.
Standard User dect
(committed) Tue 13-Aug-19 14:58:30
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Alternatively Openreach could stop navel gazing and mole plough either ducting or SWA cable in the verge for a fraction of the price of either poles or traditional trenching. I can't see that happening but someone needs to put a rocket up the backside of Openreach.
Thanks for that positive reply, it was well worth the wait.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Tue 13-Aug-19 17:12:08
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Jabuzzard

I remember 35 years ago BT mole ploughed a length of cable to serve a farmhouse in Lincolnshire, the next autumn the farmer complained his service had failed as the cable had 'broken' when the engineer got to site to joint the cable the farmer handed him a whole set of bits of cable all the width of a plough furrow in length where he had ploughed it up again after ripping the hedge alongside out. He then had the cheek to complain when they took over a week to replace the lot (500m+).
Standard User bomber456
(committed) Mon 19-Aug-19 19:46:42
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: quadrophenic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
Hi, new to the forum and this discussion. Very interesting to see everyone's FTTPoD journey! I recently requested a desktop quote from Cerberus and was quoted an slightly eye watering £12,400 with only 5 properties passed. I live on a fairly densely populated housing estate. There is currently FTTC but since we live at the back of the estate the distance to the cab is about 800m therefore I get around 30mbps. I have spoken to a local openreach engineer and he told me the estate is fully ducted so it should be a reasonable quote.
There has been a new part of the estate built recently and they all have native FTTP so I assume the infrastructure is there and reasonably close by.
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed frown

This sounds exactly the same as my situation.
Currently can get about 30mbps max on FTTC, near by new build estate has native FTTP.
Nearest cab is about 800m away.
Paid for them to quote, and it was £8.5k!
So Iím just waiting for them to do it as part of the fibre first scheme in Swansea, although could take a few years!

...
Standard User quadrophenic
(newbie) Tue 20-Aug-19 09:57:53
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
slightly eye watering £12,400 with only 5 properties passed


There's a good chance that your final bill would be less than that, maybe even half. But you'll have to pay £250+VAT to find out.

If you run a business, you may be eligible for £2,500 DCMA gigabit voucher.

In reply to a post by quadrophenic:
I just can't understand how there are only 5 properties passed frown


"Properties passed" means "properties where service is available to order" - not the properties which the fibre cable goes past on its way to your property. The fibre cable can't be cut to provide service to other people.

That is, they will put in a fibre Connectorised Block Terminal (CBT) to serve you, and there are five properties altogether which can be served from that point. They'll also have WBC FTTP available (at no charge) once your FTTPoD order is fulfilled.

You could try to club together with one or two of them to share the cost, but note that the actual set of properties passed won't be finalised until the survey is complete, so it may change.

Thank you for the replies. The properties passed thing makes a bit more sense now. As the estate is ducted it looks like we have a footway box just outside our property. Sadly I don't run a business so no voucher possibility. I have registered with the openreach community fibre partnership and trying to drum up a bit of local interest. Sadly if I am only able to target 5 properties that limits my chance of success a bit.
I know I should just wait but it feels like any improvements will be years away. I would be happy if they could provide the VDSL2 (60-80mbps) speeds but again it is a case of waiting and praying for them to do something of their own accord.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 20-Aug-19 10:26:25
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Well clearly they didn't mole plough it deep enough first time around smile One would say you need to be targeting 400mm+ across a field or along a hedgerow for this reason.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 20-Aug-19 11:36:12
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Re: FTTPoD quotes, prices and general chat thread Part 5


[re: quadrophenic] [link to this post]
 
I have registered with the openreach community fibre partnership and trying to drum up a bit of local interest. Sadly if I am only able to target 5 properties that limits my chance of success a bit.


The Community Fibre Partnership wouldn't be limited to those 5 properties.
It's simply that FTTP would have been enabled for free on 5 properties if you had taken FTTPoD.

You can target a larger area for the CFP if you wish.
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