Neither FTTP nor FTTC apparently available at new build

I've recently moved into a new build block of 7 flats (building was finished in 2018), and trying to get set up with broadband.

BT have said there is only a basic copper connection available, and that's what I'm current set up with. It usable, can just about stream things, but its probably the slowest internet I've had in at least 10 years.

Doing the DSL checker on my line, I get the following:

Imgur link

(although my real download speed seems to be more like 11mbps)

However, searching around, it seems like we're surrounded by properties with FTTP. Below the checker on a property a few doors down, with the same postcode, connected to the same cabinet:

Imgur link

Before we moved in, I checked with BT what was available at the property for us to move our account. They did tell me that their systems showed it was just copper, but that it may have been the case that their information was slow to update, or that they'd only be able to tell once we were in and a line installed.

I asked the developer and their response was:

sounds like BT are using the wrong information. There is fibre connectivity in the building and other occupiers are using it. There is a BT chamber in the pavement on the corner [outside the building] which is then ducted to the junction box in the meter cupboard by the stairs. Your flat is pre-wired from there.

I've now spoken to most of the other flats and they don't have fibre.

Looking up the cabinet it seems nearly everyone else nearby has FTTP on Demand.

So what's likely to be going on here? Developer not being honest? Some sort of mistake in the system? Surely can't be the case that a building built in the past 2 years, in London right next to a cabinet can only get the slowest possible broadband? Or...?

So there is a duct installed but is there a fibre cable in the duct? Seems like the developer didn't pay OpenReach to actually install the fibe? If they did then it could be a records issue - you would need to contact OpenReach to check I guess? If none of the other flats have FTTP installed then it is likely that the actual fibre cable was never installed to the building.

Edited by brookheather (Wed 10-Jul-19 15:11:13)

If there is an OpenReach (BT) copper phone line, the property likely doesn't have OpenReach FTTP.

What OpenReach install to new builds is entirely down to what the developer orders.
They do not (AFAIK) install both FTTP and copper to new builds.

Your cabinet doesn't have FTTC so what you have now may be the best you'll get over the OpenReach network.

Codelook actually shows the whole cabinet having FTTP.

As for the developers comments

sounds like BT are using the wrong information. There is fibre connectivity in the building and other occupiers are using it. There is a BT chamber in the pavement on the corner [outside the building] which is then ducted to the junction box in the meter cupboard by the stairs. Your flat is pre-wired from there

Never ever ever known OpenReach to do this.

Sounds more like how Hyperoptic install their network.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 10-Jul-19 15:16:38)

Have you checked the address of the other flats in the block that are thought to have full fibre connectivity and/or spoken to residents.

NOTE FTTP on Demand is a pay £10,000 to get FTTP i.e. custom build option and not FTTP live you are talking about

Devil will be in the detail e.g. what exactly is in this junction box and what do you have pre-wired in the flat?

As others have said, its rare for BT/Openreach to install both copper & fibre on a new build development. If FTTP/B is available, then most likely it will be through Hyperoptic. Check with your neighbour(s) to be sure.

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Jul-19 15:47:51)

Hi

Just to add to the other sound advice.

The properties you have checked nearby that show WBC FTTP could be due to someone in the past placing an FTTP on Demand order, which also enables a few properties close by. It doesn't necessarily help you much that they have it.

In your case, it's not offering you FTTP on Demand as Openreach have stopped doing it to flats due to issues they often get trying to get permission to install the necessary cable, and anyway, it usually costs several thousand pounds or more to get Openreach to install it on your demand.

The only option is to search other providers and see if you have fibre from someone other than BT installed and/or ready to go.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Jul-19 16:01:51)

FTTP feom Feb 2011 pre dates FTTPoD. Forest Hill was one one of the early native FTTP areas. Unlikely Open reach would have been back unless developer paid

Thanks for the responses. To try and answer some of the other questions:

I don't know exactly what is installed. There is a cabinet on the street just outside the building. Something comes into the building from there, and there's a big box in a communal cupboard. There's then a smaller cupboard on each floor with the wires going into each flat. That's where the Openreach engineers who came to set up the flat mostly worked at. I did ask these engineers whether it was fibre or not, they weren't particularly helpful but it seemed like no, just copper.

Hyperoptic is not available.

Others in the building do not have fibre connectivity, they seem to have what I have.

Having checked some nearby addressed with BT, Zen, etc, it seems that they can definitely sign up for 300mbps, although yes it does seem these are all houses rather than flats.

I have followed up with the developer to ask what they meant by what they previously told me. I'm not expecting a positive answer as they've now sold all the flats and can wash their hands. It seems most likely that they just skimped on paying openreach what would have been necessary.

Your cabinet doesn't have FTTC so what you have now may be the best you'll get over the OpenReach network.

So is that really that? Stuck with 10 meg forever?

Pictures of those boxes could be useful ... along with any wires/fibres/ducts &c going to them. Host te images somewhere and provide links.

Hi

So is that really that? Stuck with 10 meg forever?

Not forever no, as the plan is to connect everyone up to FTTP eventually, this may happen sooner or later for you, just luck of draw when really. Although if you are at the end of the upgrade process it could be 10+ years away.

It wouldn't surprise me if the developer lied, with them knowing full well flats with poor connectivity might see offers reduced or you backing out completely from the purchase.

Other options could come sooner, either from other providers with fibre or you could look at 4G or 5G when it arrives.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Jul-19 16:47:41)

Forest Hill had a good chunk of original FTTP rollout back in the 2010 to 2012 era so that is more likely than it being fibre on demand

NOTE: Doing phone number based checks until you have the phone number active and able to receive calls in a property can be a mistake, since until records are updated once someone is paying line rental it will tend to show the last properties results.

Or maybe Community Fibre

Just to update with a response from the developer:

It was certainly my understanding that fibre existed at the local exchange but having made my own enquiries this morning, it would appear this is not the case. Having spoken with Openreach, they are not currently able to predict a date when fibre will be available at [address] but suggest you use there online checker to track progress https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband

So pretty disappointing!

I will try to get the other flats in the building to register interest, but I can't imagine that it would be a priority for openreach given that the local area is already all set up with FTTP?

It absolutely won't be a priority.

How many homes/apartments were built in the development?

If OpenReach went around installing FTTP for developers who only order a copper wire install, then developers wouldn't bother paying for FTTP in the 1st place.

They only install FTTP for free of the development is above 30(?) homes.
The developer needs to pay below that number of homes.

If above that number of homes the developer would still have needed to engage with OpenReach early in the project in order to get the free FTTP.

Entirely the developers fault here.

edit: removed inaccurate info corrected by the witchunt.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 12-Jul-19 10:13:46)

There is lot of FTTC in Forest Hill but also a lot of FTTP. There area around the OP is all FTTP

Which suggests to me that the developer is telling porkies.

There are 9 homes (7 flats and two houses which I think also don't have fibre) - so they wouldn't have been eligible free installation, looks like it would have cost them £7,614.

If OpenReach went around installing FTTP for developers who only order a copper wire install, then developers wouldn't bother paying for FTTP in the 1st place.

Well quite, really annoying that they've skimped on this. Given the development has finsihed, would there be anyway for the developer to retrospectively pay for installation? If the ducting etc is in place, could they feed fibre in?

Going to go back to the developer quite angrily as they gave the wrong information pre purchase!

In reply to a post by donciccio:

Well quite, really annoying that they've skimped on this. Given the development has finsihed, would there be anyway for the developer to retrospectively pay for installation? If the ducting etc is in place, could they feed fibre in?

Going to go back to the developer quite angrily as they gave the wrong information pre purchase!

Yes they can.
It might be dearer than if it were ordered before construction though.

In reply to a post by donciccio:

Given the development has finsihed, would there be anyway for the developer to retrospectively pay for installation? If the ducting etc is in place, could they feed fibre in?

Second question: yes, the fibre installation ought to be relatively straightforward if this is an FTTP area and there's already ducting. Unfortunately, if this is an MDU, the straightforward solution (FTTPoD) is not available to you. It could be available to the houses though; try putting their addresses into the address checker and see if it says "FTTP on demand available". Still likely to be expensive though.

First question: anything is possible with application of sufficient money, but if it doesn't say in your contract that the developer needed to provide this, then I wouldn't expect them to do so. You could ask them to request FTTP from Openreach through the usual chanenls as a "new development", and hope it's not too late given that the copper is already in. Then negotiate with them who pays how much.

Otherwise, there's CFP.

Flats also mean co-operation from building owner as in way leave

In that case your best bet is registering with Hyperoptic as providing FTTB to MDUs in the London area is their bread & butter. Unlike an Openreach CFB build, Hyperoptic will NOT ask you to contribute towards installation, they just need a sizeable interest - afaik they need at least 30% of residents to express an interest before they take things further, which should be easy to achieve considering there's no FTTC/P/B in your building. Of course the potential stumbling block is permissions (wayleave) but if enough residents create a lot of noise (wrt lack of superfast internet) then the building owner may find it difficult to put up any objections. Keep us posted, good luck

Edit: just noticed you said there�s only 7 flats in your building which might explain why no FTTP operator decided to bring fibre to you, ie commercially unviable. Even Hyperoptic may give you a polite �no�. Your only option might be an Openreach CFP build for a FTTC cabinet or FTTP. I don�t think altnets offer a similar option where you partially contribute.

Edited by deleted (Fri 12-Jul-19 15:13:02)

That is true, the developer might already have sold on the freehold.