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Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 19-Aug-19 12:15:44
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From Hero to Zero!


[link to this post]
 
So like many others I've been waiting impatiently for FTTP to arrive on our street. It's been reported as "in scope" for 2 years, and work looks almost complete (OH cables in place, track nodes, joints, new ducting and a CBT). So imagine my surprise when both the Openreach and Digital Scotland trackers, both changed to "Not in Scope" overnight. It says "We don't have any plans to upgrade your area yet" which is not true, because they evidently DO (did) have plans! There are even roadworks planned to start this week.

Has anyone seen this change of heart by Openreach so far down the deployment path and can anyone offer any inside view of what might be happening? Postcode is TD14 5

Thanks!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Aug-19 12:21:45
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
This vanishing was sometimes a pattern just before checkers actually said it was live, so don't give up just yet.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 19-Aug-19 12:27:17
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Andrew, trying not to get my hopes up too much!

Thing is, roadworksscotland.org does still show OR work happening this week on the route to our agg node, and traffic lights were installed last week, so I assumed progress was being made still. Reading some of the other threads this morning it seems half deployed solutions are not unheard of, but ours is BDUK funded one, so should have a deadline (or 2, or 3) smile


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Standard User gmangt4
(regular) Mon 19-Aug-19 13:24:27
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
Similar happened to me when on EO line and waiting on FTTC, all was looking good, loads of Openreach vans around, then they seemed finished and it changed to "not in scope" on Digital Scotland and Openreach checker....I was gutted, few days later I got BT Infinity flyers through my letterbox saying it was now in my area...Yippee!
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Aug-19 15:03:22
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
This vanishing was sometimes a pattern just before checkers actually said it was live, so don't give up just yet.


Ahh that partially explains why ours has gone back to about 2 properties getting fttp despite Hampshire CC saying ours is about start work.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Wed 21-Aug-19 17:42:41
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
This vanishing was sometimes a pattern just before checkers actually said it was live, so don't give up just yet.


So it turns out it was a "map error" which has been corrected rather than a sign of the imminent go-live frown

Plus now I'm getting conflicting go-live dates ranging from this month (OR partnership team) to December 2020 (OR twitter team) - Clear as mud!
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 21-Aug-19 21:57:59
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
Plus now I'm getting conflicting go-live dates ranging from this month (OR partnership team) to December 2020 (OR twitter team) - Clear as mud!


I had the same issue of sorts; Hampshire BB team said this year, then OR twitter team said July 2020. Then about 3 weeks ago the OR website said my post code wasn't in-scope anymore!. Spoke to Hampshire BB they said OR was wrong, and work should be starting soon or it already has... Anyway I checked again with OR which took 3 emails from them and today they said by December this year.

And the OR website is now saying FTTP is coming soon. All of which has made me look like a complete idiot on here frown
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Thu 22-Aug-19 10:37:44
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
I had the same issue of sorts; Hampshire BB team said this year, then OR twitter team said July 2020. Then about 3 weeks ago the OR website said my post code wasn't in-scope anymore!. Spoke to Hampshire BB they said OR was wrong, and work should be starting soon or it already has... Anyway I checked again with OR which took 3 emails from them and today they said by December this year.

And the OR website is now saying FTTP is coming soon. All of which has made me look like a complete idiot on here frown


Don't worry, I think everyone understands the lack of reliable timelines coming from OR! Whether it's Digital Scotland or Hampshire BB, none of them seem to have a complete grip of progress or completion. I've been given dates for 3 years that have come and gone and so I've stopped pinning my hopes on any dates I'm given. What I don't understand is how Digital Scotland, HBB or any of the others are not being held accountable for spending public money when they themselves appear to have no control over when their suppliers (OR) actually deliver. If indeed DS or HBB actually have project managers, it must be the most frustrating job!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 22-Aug-19 10:44:42
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
The oddest part is that in some areas there is a lot more information on time scales and what has recently gone live, so some councils find a way to work with BT/Openreach and others don't.

The costs of running the council side of things suspect has meant some councils have pruned things back and any social media team left is doing this along with a myriad of other things. Another factor was some of the abuse you could see in public social media

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 22-Aug-19 11:12:36
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The oddest part is that in some areas there is a lot more information on time scales and what has recently gone live, so some councils find a way to work with BT/Openreach and others don't.


Take Oxfordshire, they've (or are) going to house level with Hampshire CC, its a horrid map, which when you zoom into it disappears and you are told to take the mapping as a guide only.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The costs of running the council side of things suspect has meant some councils have pruned things back and any social media team left is doing this along with a myriad of other things. Another factor was some of the abuse you could see in public social media


That has been evident with Hampshire, the team at one stage wasn't updating things for months. Now they are being more transparent again. The team have been fab to me overall but nonetheless frustrating at times.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 02-Sep-19 18:31:40
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
So as of today, I'm back to 'Zero'.

I caught an OR chap poking around today and it turns out he was there to "sign-off" before go-live, except that our house and 3 others have been classed as having wayleave issues and so we won't be going live. The other 3 houses closest to the DP with CBT have now gone live on dslchecker, but not us frown

The engineer didn't know what the wayleave issues where, but I did help him identify and literally dig out the chamber that had the ducting already in place for our copper that goes from the CBT pole to our houses, so there is definitely a route already in place.

Is there anything I can do here other than start hanging ethernet between our houses!?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Sep-19 19:37:56
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
Would running fibre to any of the properties likely to require to much about in a garden perhaps that is not the persons who has ordered fibre?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Mon 02-Sep-19 19:59:02
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
Is there anything I can do here other than start hanging ethernet between our houses!?


if it was me I would ensure that the duct from house to manhole is clear so that fibre can be put through easily. I actually put my own duct in from pole to house so that ftth fibre could cross the garden

Edited by threelegs (Mon 02-Sep-19 20:01:30)

Standard User crapinon
(newbie) Mon 02-Sep-19 20:56:06
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
"Would running fibre to any of the properties likely to require to much about in a garden perhaps that is not the persons who has ordered fibre?"

In English please....?
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 02-Sep-19 22:55:15
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Would running fibre to any of the properties likely to require to much about in a garden perhaps that is not the persons who has ordered fibre?



It appears that in OR's view of their network, they would have to dig across someones drive, or install a new pole and OH cable in order to reach our 3 houses. However, because today I physically uncovered an existing duct and chamber (which was unknown to OR) I have hope that they magically resolve the wayleave issue. But without knowing what the wayleave issue actually is, I'm just guessing.

Ultimately, my question is how do I tell OR about their own infrastructure which I believe would resolve their wayleave issue!

Edited by chrisdev (Mon 02-Sep-19 23:01:34)

Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 02-Sep-19 22:57:25
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Re: From Hero to Zero! *DELETED*


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by chrisdev
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Mon 02-Sep-19 22:59:55
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
Is there anything I can do here other than start hanging ethernet between our houses!?


if it was me I would ensure that the duct from house to manhole is clear so that fibre can be put through easily. I actually put my own duct in from pole to house so that ftth fibre could cross the garden


I could do that too, but then how do I convince OR that this has resolved their wayleave issue.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Sep-19 23:30:03
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: crapinon] [link to this post]
 
Lol

Wayleave worries usually mean Openreach think they will need access to some private land to do the install. So is that the case?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Sep-19 08:25:22
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Lol

Wayleave worries usually mean Openreach think they will need access to some private land to do the install. So is that the case?


That is what chrisdev is asking and has the duct that chrisdev found solved the problem. And how can he find out crazy
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Sep-19 09:50:29
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
First instance should be notes passed by retailer onto Openreach and they come back out to check it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 03-Sep-19 10:18:37
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
First instance should be notes passed by retailer onto Openreach and they come back out to check it.


But I'm not able to order any FTTP service yet, so I have no formal route into OR. The reason I know there are wayleave issues is because I chatted with the engineer signing-off the FTTP structure before it went live in the checker yesterday.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 03-Sep-19 11:02:21
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It would seem to me that if Openreach are simply going to give up at the first hurdle without informing anyone about potential wayleave issues then a full FTTP rollout is going to leave a lot of properties not connected.

Take this case for example. Three houses are left out because you (possibly incorrectly assume) you need to trench across a drive. Did anyone from Openreach ask the owner of the drive if they objected to a trench being put in? By all accounts these properties have rather poor broadband, and even if you have no requirement for an endgame broadband install you would have to be pretty dense to realize that a poor broadband connection will have a significant impact on the resale value of your property. Also refusing the trench would likely make you very unpopular with your neighbours.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Sep-19 11:39:29
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
Is the ISP you intend to order FTTP from the same as the one providing your service now?

If yes, then they should take up the case on your behalf

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 03-Sep-19 12:03:07
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
It would seem to me that if Openreach are simply going to give up at the first hurdle without informing anyone about potential wayleave issues then a full FTTP rollout is going to leave a lot of properties not connected.

Take this case for example. Three houses are left out because you (possibly incorrectly assume) you need to trench across a drive. Did anyone from Openreach ask the owner of the drive if they objected to a trench being put in?


Completely agree - There was no involvement from us as residents about this - and what is most frustrating is that we are all being told fibre is "on the way" for years, yet I find out that's not the case from a chance encounter with an engineer, the day before all the other houses go live on the checker.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 03-Sep-19 12:05:52
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Is the ISP you intend to order FTTP from the same as the one providing your service now?

If yes, then they should take up the case on your behalf


Yes, It would be (A&A) but are you sure they would get involved when dslchecker says nothing about FTTP for my house? I'm effectively blocked from ordering until computer says "yes" ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Sep-19 12:36:58
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
As its A&A then yes, they almost seem to relish fixing things that are a bit unusual.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Sep-19 12:37:05
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
it may be worth contacting openreach directly via

https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/when-to-g...

You might have to talk to several openreach staff till you get the right person
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 03-Sep-19 13:07:12
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
The alternative might be to get an FTTPoD quote and pay up the £250. Presumably once they find the duct is in place and all the other FTTP stuff is in place the quote will be very cheap...
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Sep-19 13:22:02
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
I caught an OR chap poking around today and it turns out he was there to "sign-off" before go-live, except that our house and 3 others have been classed as having wayleave issues and so we won't be going live. The other 3 houses closest to the DP with CBT have now gone live on dslchecker, but not us frown


I would take what the Openreach bod on the ground told you with a pinch of salt as there may also be other issues (eg cost) which he might not be aware of. You would really need to speak to someone in Openreach higher up the chain (Planning Dept?) to get the full picture. Getting Andrews & Arnold involved might be your best chance as they have a reputation (well deserved imo) of getting to the bottom of things. As a last resort you may want to get a firm CFP quote with your neighbours (free unlike FTTPoD) and that will shed further light on any potential issues. Obviously if they give you a firm CFP quote (after a site survey) then the issue may not have been wayleave(s) after all, it may just have been down to cost.

Good luck! smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 03-Sep-19 19:16:49
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for all your advice and suggestions.

I've contacted A&A, but they say they are not able to help since the service isn't available and any order would be rejected.

I'll let you know how I get on with the other routes! I guess there's always the CEO email wink

Chris
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Sep-19 19:45:17
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In that case probably worth going the CFP route, so that you can try to get an Openreach Surveyor on site and discuss with him any potential issues in person. He/she is likely to know far more than the previous person you met on the ground. Otherwise you might find it difficult to speak to the right people /dept at Openreach.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Sep-19 22:30:51
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I'd agree but also for the op, to ask their neighbours if needed if they want faster BB via fttp.
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 10-Sep-19 14:09:13
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
A quick update in case anyone is interested!

I pursued a case through my ISP (A&A) who had success in getting OR to change the Wholesale checker such that my house now shows as being able to order WBC FTTP, I'd call that a result and it only took a week! I've since placed an order and got an installation date of the 23rd. I'm still dubious about whether the install will succeed, but at least it gets the ball rolling if further work needs completing.

I have one more question too. Since my closest (only) CBT is at the top of a pole, is it common for the fibre tail to be connected to the CBT, then run down the pole and underground, or does a CBT at the top of a pole always serve properties overhead?
Standard User max360
(regular) Tue 10-Sep-19 15:16:00
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
The overhead (OH) CBT feed would usually serve the existing OH premises. If your line is underground (UG) then it would be served from the UG CBT feed, which is usually located in the manhole cover.

You can check this by going to: https://www.dslchecker.bt.com

ISP: BT - FTTP 330Mb/50Mb
ISP: PlusNet - FTTC - 80Mb/20Mb

Birmingham Fibre First Program: FTTP - BT Ultra fast fibre 2 plus package - 330Mb down 50Mb up.

Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 24 - Funded Privately (Community Partnership).
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Tue 10-Sep-19 16:03:57
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
just to chuck my tuppence worth in to the pot. I have ftth and the manifold is on the pole in the garden and the fibre comes to the house u/g (in a duct I put in) otherwise it would have been o/h . the copper comes u/g but is not in a duct just buried direct.
Standard User dect
(committed) Tue 10-Sep-19 17:23:53
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
I have one more question too. Since my closest (only) CBT is at the top of a pole, is it common for the fibre tail to be connected to the CBT, then run down the pole and underground, or does a CBT at the top of a pole always serve properties overhead?
I asked the following question recently, although not exactly the same scenario its response maybe helpful if there are no CBT's in manholes near your property.
In reply to a post by dect:
Does anyone know what happens when the route between the CBT and the property means the connectorised fibre cable has to go overhead between poles before then going underground via ducting to the property? the reason I ask is I thought there were different connectorised fibre cables for overhead and ducting so what one would they use?
Got the following reply from Zarjaz who is a extremely reliable and helpful contributor on this forum.
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
They’d use an OH kit all the way. The overhead stuff has steel strengthening also.

Have done a couple of this sort of scenario. Starts o/h then duct to the premises. Or the other way round. Wall mounted CBT, through duct, up the stick, four spans then in.
Hope this helps.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Sep-19 17:24:40
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by max360:
The overhead (OH) CBT feed would usually serve the existing OH premises. If your line is underground (UG) then it would be served from the UG CBT feed, which is usually located in the manhole cover.

You can check this by going to: https://www.dslchecker.bt.com

This is wholly wrong.

Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Tue 10-Sep-19 18:10:14
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Thanks dect, that is helpful, and also Zarjaz for confirming. The only CBT we have is on a pole, so hope it'll run from there UG to the house.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Sep-19 18:20:17
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
There’s a good chance of a ‘pre-visit’ which will check for light on the quoted CBT port, make an estimate of length of kit required, and will (hopefully) rope the ducted section in readiness .... might even fit the connectorised kit and leave a coil at the house end.

Standard User max360
(regular) Tue 10-Sep-19 20:19:54
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Where I live, that was the case. My FTTP line feed is OH. House next door is fed from UG feed.

ISP: BT - FTTP 330Mb/50Mb
ISP: PlusNet - FTTC - 80Mb/20Mb

Birmingham Fibre First Program: FTTP - BT Ultra fast fibre 2 plus package - 330Mb down 50Mb up.

Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 24 - Funded Privately (Community Partnership).
Standard User chrisdev
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-19 16:22:35
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
There’s a good chance of a ‘pre-visit’ which will check for light on the quoted CBT port, make an estimate of length of kit required, and will (hopefully) rope the ducted section in readiness .... might even fit the connectorised kit and leave a coil at the house end.


Would you like to come and do my install Zarjaz? wink
Standard User dect
(committed) Wed 11-Sep-19 16:40:09
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: chrisdev] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisdev:
Would you like to come and do my install Zarjaz? wink
Join the queue laugh
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Wed 11-Sep-19 19:14:55
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Re: From Hero to Zero!


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I got a "pre" visit to check for light at the manifold, they did not have a long enough length of fibre on board , so the OR engineer came back the next day(new years day!!!!) and pulled it through the duct leaving a huge coil that I then ran through the loft and down through the walls to the other side of the house ready for the next engineer to connect to the ONT
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