Impacted Line

I am subscribed to FTTC broadband. The cabinet is a long way from my house so I understandably get a download speed well below the rated speed of the service I am buying. I have always been unclear about Impacted and Non-impacted (or Clean) lines. My current speed is now below that predicted for an Impacted line and has at best been at the rock bottom of the Impacted range. I therefore conclude my line is 'Impacted'. Am I right to presume that as a consumer I can do nothing to make the line 'Clean'? Is it possible for Openreach to remove the 'Impact'? If so, is there any way I can persuade them to do so?
Finally I assume that the speed reduction due to being 'Impacted' is completely separate from the speed reduction caused by being a long way from the cabinet? IE. I have lost in 2 postcode lotteries firstly by being a long way from the cabinet and secondly by being connected to it by an Impacted line.

Could the techies amongst you please be gentle with me as I am an user rather than a provider of telecommunications services. Thank you.

A clean line is one where the router is connected to standalone NTE with no extension wiring connected ...

Or one where there is a faceplate filter on the NTE, and you connect via that.

Impacted means there is extension wiring connected to creating a �bridge tap�.

Describe your set up please.

Impacted lines, typically means various factors inside and more often outside of the property that can cause problems. From bridge taps to interference.

There is a handover speed, if you are below that, then there is an issue and also you have a right to terminate your contract and go back to adsl. As you have lower speeds than you expect. Have you done

Done a test via the test socket?
Tried alternative microfilters?
Is your master socket have a face plate on it ?
Have you added anything to the phone system?

I disagree, the �impacted line� message is just in reference to internal wiring being connected.

The clean/impacted figures mean nothing.
They are simply estimates that OpenReach provide to your ISP.

Your ISP decide on what estimates to quote you at the time of your order or contract renewal.
It's only if yoursync speed (not speed test results) goes below the minimum guarantee quoted by the ISP that they are likely to ask OpenReach to check your line.

Some ISP's provide high estimates similar to the clean estimates.
Some ISP's provide estimates that match the impacted estimates and you would need to drop below the impacted range before they will intervene.

You need to hunt out the letter/email sent to you when you ordered FTTC and find your estimates.
Then you need to compare those estimates to your sync speed, not speed test results.
The sync speed will be higher than speed tests.

The BTWholesale estimates go up and down and could also have changed since your FTTC went live.

There are (at least) three things in your home that could be causing a very low speed.

First, are you connecting your modem/router to the master socket, or to an extension socket?

Second, do you have a modern master socket similar to any on this page? Note the horizontal split on the single-socket where the bottom half can be removed. The twin-socket ones may have the sockets one above the other or be a lot more curvy than that example of an old type.

The third question comes when we know exactly what sort of master socket you have. If you upload a photo of it to one of the free sites and then post a link here to it that would be great .

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 19-Aug-19 15:26:07)

Thanks for replies so far. Struggling to understand them all but please bear with me!

There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether Impacted refers to inside my home (which I can do something about) or somewhere in the fields between my house and the cabinet (about which I can do nothing). This seems a fundamental question to me.

I take the point about repeating my speed test from the test socket. But I don't know what synch speed is or how I can measure it. Can anyone help?

Will consider other points in due course. Thanks for all your help.

.

We need to know what hub/modem you are using to help you get the sync speed.

Things that put the line in the impacted range can be in the home or between your home and the cabinet.
As you are only allowed to touch the wiring in the home other posters have focused on that.

Plus of course the most common cause of slow speeds (other than distance) has always been sub-optimal home wiring.

I don't have microfilters - I used to have them but I think my latest modem incorporates them.

I think the master socket has a faceplate on it. It says BTOpenreach MK2 on it .

The phone system used to have three extension sockets but as these are redundant with wireless handsets they have been disconnected. I have a Hive Home Hub connected to the broadband router and an ethernet connection to a Powerline adapter to route broadband to my Smart TVs over the electricity cables.

My hub is a PlusNet Hub One.

My Master Socket has two sockets one above the other and is called an Openreach MK2

Does the faceplate that is marked MK2 have two sockets, one for a phone and one for the modem.

The modems do not incorporate a micro-filter in the sense that they are normally required (longer tech version is that there is a high pass filter in the modem in case pedants are reading)

If when using the test socket you cannot get dial tone on the extensions AND the faceplate is one with two socket then likely the wiring is a none issue.

On a long line it is possible that the interference that can arise from powerline devices may be just enough to lower your speeds, so you need to also test with those turned off and disconnected.

Estimating the speeds on long VDSL2 lines is not easy and without access to a long history of what the line has been doing its hard to say a lot more, i.e. it may just be that there are enough occasional errors that to stop you suffering lots of long resync periods (i.e. modem is training and you have no internet) that it has slowed the speeds down until things become stable (this process is known as Dynamic Line Management).

Knowing what modem/router you are using may help, since some are not that good on long lines.

If you login to your Plusnet account and go to My account > View my details will see a section that says
Your Minimum Guaranteed Access Line Speed:29.9Mb

This is the minimum sync speed you agreed to when you joined.

edit: the 29.9Mb is from my account. It matched the Downstream Handback Threshold for VDSL Range A (clean) when I signed up.
It no longer matches this figure on the checker. It's what Plusnet say that counts.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 19-Aug-19 16:05:45)

I first got fibre broadband several years ago and do not remember being given a quoted speed at the time. I have changed ISP several times over this time and don't remember being sent an estimated speed when I changed supplier. I have always referred to the Openreach speedchecker site to get an idea of what speed to expect.
Can I ask PlusNet my provider for a quotation now part way through my contract?

You can get stats from the hub one if you visit http://192.168.1.254 then click troubleshooting and then help desk.

The username should be admin and the password will be on the back of the Plusnet Hub One.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 19-Aug-19 16:04:31)

Can't find this info on PlusNet website I assume I am looking at the Broadband tab in the My Account section?

I have found my renewal estimate (not a minimum guaranteed rate) and it is 21- 32 mbs. I can NEVER recall receiving over 20mbs!

OK now we're getting somewhere.

I assume we want to look at 'Data Rate' for 2019 it is 16,474 and 'Maximum Data Rate' for 2019 is 20,293.

In reply to a post by PMSG:

The phone system used to have three extension sockets but as these are redundant with wireless handsets they have been disconnected.

Just to clarify, by that do you mean:

1. the phones have been unplugged from the extension sockets, but the extension sockets are still live (you get dialtone if you plug in a phone); or
2. the extension wiring has been completely isolated from the master socket

Option (2) will give you the best speed.

Option (1) *can* cause reduced speeds, depending on what state your extension wiring is in. It's always a good idea to isolate it for a while to help narrow down the problem.

In newer setups, removing the front faceplate from the mastser socket isolates the extension wiring (if it was installed correctly). In some older setups, the extension wiring was on an inline plug+socket that you just pull out. In very old setups, anything is possible

You might be able to find it on the Plusnet account details page.

Or maybe not, Plusnet are slowly removing actually useful info from their account pages

https://www.plus.net/my.html?action=view_details

https://www.plus.net/my.html?action=view_details

It's already too late - not showing on my Account Details Ugh

How do I test using the test socket? Do I plug the hub into the test socket and connect the PC to the hub by ethernet cable? Or do I have to plug an ADSL filter into the test socket and then connect the hub to one of its sockets and then connect PC via ethernet cable?

In reply to a post by PMSG:

How do I test using the test socket? Do I plug the hub into the test socket and connect the PC to the hub by ethernet cable? Or do I have to plug an ADSL filter into the test socket and then connect the hub to one of its sockets and then connect PC via ethernet cable?

spare adsl/vdsl microfilter into test socket, and then your hub one into the correct socket on the filter. Sometimes the faceplate can go, just like a microfilter can.

Can you post http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ stats from the dsl checker, so we know more about your line. Keep the phone number blanked out obviously. Lots of us are helping because we all have had problems with our service at some stage.

DSL checker stats

Range A 33 20 6.6 4.3 18
Range B 32.2 18 6.5 3.8 14.9

Results of Think Broadband speed test run via test socket/ethernet to hub

D/L 14.3 and 14.1 U/L 1.8 and 1.8

Results of BT Wholesale speed test

D/L 13.56 and 13.88 U/L 2.52 and 2.87 Ping latency 34 and 22

I then rang the 'Further Diagnostics' and it showed similar actual speeds but then said 'acceptable range for this line' 10.64 - 15.19

(Does this mean that Openreach tells PlusNet I can get between 18 and 32.2 but I can hand it back if it's below 14.9 but in reality it only expects me to get between 10.64 and 15.19?????)

So.....is there anything I can do to get improved performance?

I'd contact Plusnet and complain you are below estimates they provided.

Speed test results aren't all that relevant.
It's the figures shown on the Plusnet Hub One that are used to determine if you are below the estimates.
The estimates are sync speed estimates not speed test estimates.

That acceptable range quoted on the Wholesale further diagnostics page looks like nonsense I wouldn't even mention them to Plusnet.

Those further diagnostics also showed the IP Profile, which is calculated from the actual sync at the time the modem connected to the cabinet (on FTTC) or exchange (on ADSLx).

It allows your ISP to buffer the downstream to you, preventing data arriving at the cabinet or exchange faster than it can come down the line to you. So preventing packet loss at that point. Though it may occur elsewhere due to noise.

The acceptable speed in that report is nothing to do with what speed your line should be able to connect and transmit at. Only what it is set to at that point in time.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 21-Aug-19 10:47:56)

Thanks for info Roberto. Excuse my ignorance but does that mean that my speed is restricted to 15.19 by that setting regardless of what speed could be achieved??

Not exactly.

The sync/connection speed by definition determines how fast your line can transmit data, and the estimates are of your achievable sync. However various outside factors can reduce the maximum achievable which is why clean and impacted ranges are given.

Every time your modem or modem/router connects to the modem at the other end it will be at a (hopefully only slightly) different speed. The IP Profile is calculated from that actual line speed that time.

However, the speed data goes down the line is a different thing altogether, and is what speed tests try to report. Think of having a simple phone conversation with someone. The speed you speak determines how quickly your listener gets what you are saying, and vice versa. But the electronic signals are basically going at the speed of light.

If your download speeds are low, that can be due to a low connection speed or congestion somewhere within the network, or other factors. Which is what your thread is about. All I was trying to explain was the achievable figures that you got from the Further Diagnostics.

Those vary directly with the connection speed and alter every time your modem disconnects and connects. They have nothing whatsoever to do with either the speed your line should connect at, or what it is connected at, or that the data comes down the line.

They are a result, information only, telling you the expected speed test and real data speeds to be expected from the current sync speed. If the line should be connecting faster, as per the estimates, these Further Diagnostics don�t know anything about that.

A bit like a thermometer (sync and IP Profile) and a forecast of temperatures for the day (achievable on the day). On a different day with different weather (different sync speed) those figures change. The BT Wholesale estimates for your line however tell you more like the sort of climate you can expect in your part of the world as opposed to mid-Sahara (FTTP).

The IP profile will change automatically as your sync speed (the speed reported by the router - if its a Plusnet Hub One this is the Helpdesk page under troubleshooting) increases or decreases.

So, if your line conditions improved and the modem sync'ed at a higher speed the IP profile would increase also in line with the sync speed.

The IP profile is always lower than the sync speed as there are overheads involved in running the connection.

Just a clarification, as there is often confusion on forums. And even in ISP adverts.

There are several different �speeds�. In descending order:-

The sync/connection speed.
The data throughout speed over an Ethernet connection to a modem or modem/router.
The data throughput speed over a wireless connection to a router or wireless access point.

We need to be sure in any conversation that everyone in the thread, or reading/writing an advert, is talking about the same one of those and specifically say if they mean a different one .

That's the first time I've thought of myself in the mid-Sahara

An apt comparison however with people still on sub-4Mbs ADSL2+ .

PMSG, your line is below the handback threshold. So it looks as if there may be a fault. Phone Pn and let them do some tests. You can do this online but i'd suggest doing this the phone.

First of all thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread.

There has been a most unexpected development which I would like to share with you. I took the advice to complain to PlusNet about my BB speed. The agent said he thought he could see what it was and he would request Openreach to change something. Thus took a few days and then my speed improved from about 14.5 to 15.5 which was just about in line with the guaranteed minimum speed. I was not too impressed with this but was even less impressed with the price the offered me when I said I was going to leave them. So I switched to Vodafone (I have always previously had fibre from PlusNet or BT in the belief that as BT controlled the infrastructure they would get the best performance). Anyway with some trepidation and solely to save money I switched. I am now about three weeks in and I am delighted to say my Broadband speed is over 24 mbs. I am absolutely delighted but also flabbergasted that my new supplier can give me so much better performance using the same (presumably still impacted) Openreach FTTC infrastructure.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? Can anyone explain how Vodafone make the FTTC go faster for me?

Different modem, e.g. may have been one of the older Home Hubs that did not play so well with some lines.

Maybe the DLM has reset and currently happy, but it is possible in time that errors may arise and speeds drop over time

NOTE: It is Openreach who control the VDSL2 hardware. Nothing to do with with the BT Consumer division.

A better VDSL modem in their router perhaps ?