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Standard User Spuriousfish
(regular) Tue 05-Nov-19 12:39:08
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New FTTP install questions


[link to this post]
 
Our rural exchange is only ADSL at the moment but currently the area has FTTP being laid which supposedly will be going live to us in March 2020.

We're told that the fibre will be laid along the roadside and that when its available to us for a connection we need to contact our ISP and order it. At this point we're told that a surveyor will come along to plan the route from road to house.

There are a number of questions about this change over process but to start...

1. Does the home owner have to pay for the final link from road to house?
2. Will we be able to choose from a number of ISPs for our supply?
3. Will the copper link be kept for the phone service or do we have to switch to Voip?

Any help with answers to the above would be very useful.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Nov-19 12:46:14
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
In answer to 3, the copper will be left in situ, you’ll not be forced into a VOIP service.

Standard User burble
(member) Tue 05-Nov-19 13:37:31
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
For no2, if it's BT/Openreach there are a number of ISP's who can give you a service in a similar way to what you get now, also soon to be joined by Sky and TalkTalk.


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Nov-19 13:59:10
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
BT did our estate for fibre and I was able to upgrade from FTTC to fibre with no install charge and £41 per month for 150/30 with weekend calls. There wasn't a need to survey - the engineer came out one day to run the cable to the front door and then came back a week later to do the internals (same engineer).

Question is, is it BT laying the fibre or one of the other fibre providers as that could alter the answer significantly.
Standard User Spuriousfish
(regular) Tue 05-Nov-19 15:44:50
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies.

It's BT/Openreach installing the fibre or at least one of their contractors.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 05-Nov-19 16:57:34
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
As its Openreach, then the standard install fees will apply as per adverts on the FTTP providers sites. Unless you have a big long private drive e.g. 300 metres

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Tue 05-Nov-19 17:05:53
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
Spuriousfish

1. Unless you are a long way from the road you only pay the standard install fee as quoted by each supplier. ( If a long way excess fees may apply)

2.As it is Openreach you will be able to choose from number of suppliers ( there is a list on this site use the "find a supplier link" at the top of the home page filtered for FTTP)

3. The copper will remain ( at present) for voice service , But you may be offered a VOIP service by some suppliers instead. .
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Tue 05-Nov-19 17:08:32
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
how does your copper get from the road to the house now?
Standard User Spuriousfish
(regular) Wed 06-Nov-19 08:53:25
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all your replies

The current cu cable is just run across the road, possibly in a conduit and then buried directly in the ground upto the house - no conduit.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 06-Nov-19 10:02:54
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spuriousfish:
Thanks for all your replies

The current cu cable is just run across the road, possibly in a conduit and then buried directly in the ground upto the house - no conduit.
Once Native FTTP is available for you to order it would be really good if you could do some posts explaining the steps/hoops you go through to get connected to help others in a similar position with direct buried cables.
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Wed 06-Nov-19 14:10:23
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
if there is a nearby pole they can supply FTTP via overhead cable. you could possibly reduce any install costs by putting a suitable duct from road to house
Standard User Spuriousfish
(regular) Wed 06-Nov-19 14:52:47
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
I'll try and remember to come back with what happens during the install phase.

As for putting in my own duct it would depend on how easy it would be to liase with the installer, plus it will still cost for me to do it.

Fortunately I don't think I'll be the first to get an installation so I'll see what the neighbours have to go through.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 06-Nov-19 15:36:58
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
if there is a nearby pole they can supply FTTP via overhead cable.
There was a limit a few years ago on the maximum fibre drop between poles or to a property, I believe it was around the 67 metre mark.
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Mon 11-Nov-19 17:13:17
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Spuriousfish] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spuriousfish:
As for putting in my own duct it would depend on how easy it would be to liase with the installer, plus it will still cost for me to do it.


We put our own ducting across our land to meet up with the Openreach box in the verge. A lot cheaper than Openreach would have been and we could do it to our standard.

Turf cutter to take off turf, then mini digger for trench. Openreach supplied the duct, and we shoved it in the hole and then backfilled and relaid turf. 3-months later you couldn't see a single piece of where the trench was, and most of it was invisible in 4-weeks.

It depends on if this is the sort of thing you do (we have a tame digger driver) and the overall distance, the shorter it is the more likely that it would be easier to leave to Openreach. But you would be unlikely to be in control of fit & finish with Openreach.

Dave
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-Nov-19 20:31:46
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
We put our own ducting across our land to meet up with the Openreach box in the verge. A lot cheaper than Openreach would have been and we could do it to our standard.

What diameter was the duct, how deep was it and were there any bends?

Michael Chare
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Tue 12-Nov-19 00:25:43
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Telecoms is 300mm, we were a healthy 300mm to reduce chances of future damage.
Ducting was 3m lengths that were push fit (provided by openreach).

We had a long bend, circa 45degrees that could be done with the duct itself as it passed a corner of a building. Then one proper 90degree bend provided by openreach. That was a [censored] to rod but luckily that bit was still open when then installed fibre so we could open it up and sort it out.

Diameter I can check but roughly 40mm.

Dave
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Tue 12-Nov-19 13:43:15
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
standard bt duct is 54mm. i put 25mm duct across under the lawn and OR happily used that for my fttp connection. i used similiar to this, one continous length from bottom of pole to house. i put a draw rope in by using a vacum to suck the rope through
https://www.plastics-express.co.uk/water-service-pip...

Edited by threelegs (Tue 12-Nov-19 13:45:22)

Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Tue 12-Nov-19 14:22:23
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
The rule-of-thumb I'd learned for designing ducting is:

* maximum 200m between pull-points
* reduce by 50m for every 90 degrees of bend (cumulative)

e.g. 45 degree plus 90 degree: that would give a limit of 125m before you're supposed to add an intermediate chamber.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Tue 12-Nov-19 16:33:51
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
standard bt duct is 54mm. i put 25mm duct across under the lawn and OR happily used that for my fttp connection. i used similiar to this, one continous length from bottom of pole to house. i put a draw rope in by using a vacum to suck the rope through
https://www.plastics-express.co.uk/water-service-pip...


You must have a pole on your land. It’s understandable that they’d use a duct on your land if it already terminates at the base of their pole.

Openreach wouldn’t do a dig and connect your duct to their duct.

Icaras
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Tue 12-Nov-19 17:46:46
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
The rule-of-thumb I'd learned for designing ducting is:

* maximum 200m between pull-points
* reduce by 50m for every 90 degrees of bend (cumulative)

e.g. 45 degree plus 90 degree: that would give a limit of 125m before you're supposed to add an intermediate chamber.

Yup, although the 45 Degree bend was over 30m of pipe so was more a curve than a bend. That presented no issues. But the 90Degree bend right at the end of the line was too hard to push round. The rod was compressing within the duct in a spirally fashion. It didn't want to go round the 90 Degree bend on its own much. We used some of my lighter rods to pull the bend and the last 4-years.

Whoever said 54mm is correct. But that is about 40mm in rural terms, like a waste water pipe size.

Next job is electric into a field on a new supply, or a section 50 under the roadway job. Hampered by a ditch one side. Then a 200m trench to where we need it. I must love diggers!

Dave
Standard User MC31
(member) Tue 12-Nov-19 19:41:12
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Or put the draw rope in place as you put the duct it , that's how our in house dig guys do it.

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Nov-19 19:53:07
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your reply. How did you establish contact with someone at Openreach who could discuss and agree your plan?

Michael Chare
Standard User threelegs
(member) Tue 12-Nov-19 20:12:59
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: MC31] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MC31:
Or put the draw rope in place as you put the duct it , that's how our in house dig guys do it.


as my duct was one continous length i had to put the rope in after
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 12-Nov-19 20:21:40
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
as my duct was one continous length i had to put the rope in after

Put the rope through first then ??

Blowing through after works, but you often need a decent compressor to hand to blow with ....

Standard User threelegs
(member) Tue 12-Nov-19 20:38:22
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
suck with a vacum, good old henry
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Wed 13-Nov-19 06:24:43
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
suck with a vacum, good old henry

We use to do cabling that way.
We got a rubber ball a little bit smaller than the pipe, drill a hole through the rubber ball and thread the rope through the hole and tie a knot.
Then have one person put the rubber ball in one end and have the other person turn on the vacuum the other end, job done.

It works every time smile

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
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Standard User busterboy
(member) Wed 13-Nov-19 06:57:10
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In reply to a post by threelegs:
suck with a vacum, good old henry

We use to do cabling that way.
We got a rubber ball a little bit smaller than the pipe, drill a hole through the rubber ball and thread the rope through the hole and tie a knot.
Then have one person put the rubber ball in one end and have the other person turn on the vacuum the other end, job done.

It works every time smile

Paul


Well you learn something every day, Just Googled and you sure as heck it works.

Thanks Paul laugh


YouTube Video

BTBroadband

Edited by busterboy (Wed 13-Nov-19 07:15:34)

Standard User threelegs
(member) Wed 13-Nov-19 10:02:45
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: busterboy] [link to this post]
 
what the poster on you tube mabe from expanding sleeving is known as a "cable pulling sock"

super rod do them to attach to the end of their rods

http://www.ebay.co.uk/i/361721770219
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Wed 13-Nov-19 10:20:04
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Thanks for your reply. How did you establish contact with someone at Openreach who could discuss and agree your plan?


Applied via normal process (Cerberus) and asked for a note to be stuck on the file for the surveyor to contact us, then collared him when he was here. He was always going to knock on the door as needed to measure to house from entrance, circa 150m. He asked if I wanted them to dig the garden up and if so what route, or if I wanted to do it. He was quite relieved when I said we would do it as I didn't want their contractors making a mess. Turns out he didn't want his contractors making a mess either.

First shot is the easy bit. There is a point where it goes under fence, through a flower bed, cross a cottage lawn, then under another fence, then runs along under a path, then turns right to go through a brick walled greenhouse, and into the house.

https://i.imgur.com/WQaqak5.jpg

Duct Marking
https://i.imgur.com/f09BHBI.jpg
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 13-Nov-19 12:15:54
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
... also known as a ‘come along’.

Standard User threelegs
(member) Wed 13-Nov-19 14:38:35
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Thanks for your reply. How did you establish contact with someone at Openreach who could discuss and agree your plan?


Applied via normal process (Cerberus) and asked for a note to be stuck on the file for the surveyor to contact us, then collared him when he was here. He was always going to knock on the door as needed to measure to house from entrance, circa 150m. He asked if I wanted them to dig the garden up and if so what route, or if I wanted to do it. He was quite relieved when I said we would do it as I didn't want their contractors making a mess. Turns out he didn't want his contractors making a mess either.

First shot is the easy bit. There is a point where it goes under fence, through a flower bed, cross a cottage lawn, then under another fence, then runs along under a path, then turns right to go through a brick walled greenhouse, and into the house.

https://i.imgur.com/WQaqak5.jpg

Duct Marking
https://i.imgur.com/f09BHBI.jpg


that is quite a long trench. will they blow the fibre through or have you put a rope in
Standard User F00tS0re
(member) Wed 13-Nov-19 14:50:46
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
that is quite a long trench. will they blow the fibre through or have you put a rope in

They rodded it, I queried the lack of rope but they said no issue. The have some very nice 200 metre long push rods, hence the max 200m between inspection chambers.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 13-Nov-19 15:40:12
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Thank you.

Michael Chare
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Wed 13-Nov-19 17:12:09
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Re: New FTTP install questions


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
what the poster on you tube mabe from expanding sleeving is known as a "cable pulling sock"

super rod do them to attach to the end of their rods

http://www.ebay.co.uk/i/361721770219

We use to use an old shuttlecock when we use to blow it down the pipe, but it became problematic if it got stuck.
So we then went with a rubber ball or ping pong ball with a vacuum cleaner, but the rubber ball was better.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
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