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Standard User cjgpers
(learned) Fri 29-Nov-19 11:19:53
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How is FTTP speed regulated


[link to this post]
 
How is the FTTP maximum speed regulated? Is this something set at the exchange, or somewhere else within BT's own infrastructure systems?

I ask because I'm currently stuck on a maximum download speed of 74Mbps on BT's new Fibre 100 service. I'm scheduled to have another return call from BT sometime today, so want to be prepared for any excuses they try to give as to why I'm on a Stayfast Guarantee of 34Mbps on their Fibre 100 product.

At the moment it seems that the only way I can get a 150/30 service is to update to Halo 2 as well frown

Packages

Arthur Young
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 11:30:51
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Possibility they've connected you with the 80/20 wholesale product rather than the 160/30 product

Fibre 100 products are usually based on the 160 Mbps product.

The Halo products are new and their product description pages can be a bit of a mess. Looking at the page you managed to find your 74 Mbps is in the expected speed range i.e. I think the Halo 1 with Fibre 100 title is incorrect.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 11:41:31
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, still a bit confused. How do I get BT (or is it Openreach) to connect me to the correct wholesale product. Can you suggest specifically what I need to ask them to do.

Looking at a BT Wholesale test, it seems to say my FTTP service has an IP profile of 73.79 Mbps.

BT Wholesale Test

Arthur Young


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 12:02:47
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
You missed my part about I think the Halo 1 with Fibre 100 product is wrong.

NOTE: This is the sales page, what does it say in your actual account for what you are connected to. What speeds did they suggest as average and guaranteed speed when you signed up?

Halo 1 and Halo 2 is nothing to do with different speeds, the extra with Halo 2 is the Complete Wi-Fi package

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 12:30:46
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So, I'm switching from FTTP Superfast Fibre 2 to the new Fibre 100 product. I was told I would have a stayfast guarantee of 100Mbps. BT have had endless problems putting the order through, and I'm due another callback today, so want to be prepared for the call. My account page says I'm on Halo with Fibre 100.

As per my original question, I'm struggling to explain the problem to BT. Just looking for some pointers as to where the speed limit is actually imposed. Is this an Openreach problem, or a BT problem?

Arthur Young
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:10:15
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
You're probably one of BT's first customers to go onto their new Fibre 100 product (160/30)) so its most likely a teething problem with BT's ordering systems, ie they have incorrectly provisioned you with 80/20 instead of 160/30. Just explain to them the Fibre 100 service comes with speeds of around 145mb/s, and you're currently getting nowhere near that:

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/59868...

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 29-Nov-19 13:18:15)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:16:32
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Halo 1 and Halo 2 can both have complete wifi added to the package.

Halo 2 comes with engineer visits from BT to come and advise you on your computer setup and fix any issues you have including with PCs, etc. Apparently they will setup new devices, boost your broadband and help fine tune your home setup... You can have a home visit once a year under halo 2.

They also say halo 2 comes with the Smart Hub 2 but I had thought that was standard with the fibre packages anyway.

As far as the Fibre 100 goes I have Halo 1 with Fibre 100 on FTTP and get 150/30. 100 is the minimum guaranteed product speed but it states in my package normal download would be 150 and normal upload 30.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:17:57
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
If it is FTTP then it is 150/30 rather than 160/20. I am on it and was moved over to it about a month ago I think. I was on BT Plus before that.

The minimum guaranteed speed on the package is 100Mb/s so they are below even that even considering it should be doing 150.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:29:44
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, have corrected my post wrt upload. However I believe the 'sync' rate is 160 Mbs, throughput after overhead is around 150 Mb/s.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:36:28
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
A crucial bit of information...

So it looks like they've not actually actioned the upgrade at the network level, i.e. your package naming may have changed but the regrade has not happened yet.

So its I was on the old 80 Mbps down FTTP product and should be moving to the 160 Mbps product but this does not appear to have happened yet.

The simpler version...I am still getting the same speeds as I had previously with you and have not seen any increase since I started paying for the upgrade.

NOTE: You say switching, what date did BT give you for when the switch over would happen.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 13:50:05
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Many thanks for the replies.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
NOTE: You say switching, what date did BT give you for when the switch over would happen.
Yesterday, 28th November. Although this is the third time BT have tried to do the switchover, each time cancelling the previous order to try again. This is why I need something specific I can suggest to BT to get this working.

The other problem I have is that I can't prove to BT what speed I'm getting because whenever I run the official BT performance test at http://support.bt.com/fix/broadband/ it keeps telling me that BT can't detect my hub, and want to send an engineer out to fix it. When the Openreach engineer did come out on Wednesday, she couldn't find any fault and thought that BT had probably set me up as an FTTC connection rather than an FTTP connection. Although our copper line is an EO line, albeit to a different exchange to our fibre.

The engineer even phoned BT to try to explain, but they wouldn't listen to her and insisted on talking to me, the customer. I'm at why wits' end going around and around in circles with BT being passed from the FTTP team to the value team to the sales support team and then the offline team getting nowhere. Nobody at BT seems to know how to fix this, so just looking for things I can suggest to them when they phone again today.

Arthur Young
Standard User threelegs
(member) Fri 29-Nov-19 14:16:27
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
all too familiar scenario from bt sales. last year at this time I ordered the 150/30 FTTP service and it took five different order numbers and the intervention of the CEOs office to get any where. having ordered on black friday to get the special offers available I didnt get connected till early Jan this year!!!

next time you speak to sales ask for the CEOs e-mail and phone number to gee them up!
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 29-Nov-19 14:52:23
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Interesting that they sell a Fibre 100 product that normally goes at 150 but is on a 160 service... Nice and simple.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 15:09:30
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Reasoning most likely that it aligns with G.fast services and the move towards honesty/fairness i.e. by understating speeds they can be sure most people will get much more and be happy.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:13:06
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
So back to my original question as I'm about to phone BT again.

Is this likely to be something that Openreach need to fix, or BT? And if I understand things correctly, it's likely that they've got me on the wrong "wholesale product"?

Arthur Young
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:19:50
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
It may be Openreach not regrading the product, but based on it being BT Consumer seems more likely their own internal systems are breaking and upgrade order has not actually made it as far as Openreach.

Trying to explain to support who will know very little of how things work behind the scenes is a waste of time, just stick with the I ordered an upgrade and my speeds have not yet changed line.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User rowter
(learned) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:20:52
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Just a quick look around and the Halo 250 for 68 quid is cheaper here

https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-broa...
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:27:59
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Trying to explain to support who will know very little of how things work behind the scenes is a waste of time, just stick with the I ordered an upgrade and my speeds have not yet changed line.


Okay, thanks. I just phoned, but the number I've been given goes straight to voicemail for "the Dundee ...fibre case management team", so will just have to wait for a call back. Although the voicemail also gave an email address for [email protected] which I'll try if I still hear nothing.

Arthur Young
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:45:58
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: rowter] [link to this post]
 
But that is not a Halo 2 product....

It is a G.fast service so speeds will be no different to the equivalent BT consumer package but there is differences in the other bits such a router, wi-fi extras etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 29-Nov-19 16:55:31
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: rowter] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rowter:
Just a quick look around and the Halo 250 for 68 quid is cheaper here

https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-broa...
Zen were way too expensive. The equivalent package (Unlimited Full Fibre 3) to get a 150/30 service + landline is £20 more per month and a much higher activation fee (£55).

Arthur Young

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 29-Nov-19 16:56:54)

Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Sat 30-Nov-19 09:50:57
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Reasoning most likely that it aligns with G.fast services and the move towards honesty/fairness i.e. by understating speeds they can be sure most people will get much more and be happy.


The speed customers will see on a speedtest site is just the TCP payload not counting PPPoE/IP/TCP headers, around 152-154Mbps for a total data rate of 160Mbps.

By giving a headline speed of 150Mbps, they avoid the problem of customers phoning up to complain "I paid for 160Mbps and I'm only getting 152Mbps" and the corresponding support costs.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 30-Nov-19 10:36:35
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Which was catered for in the old 10% rules

Was not referring to a headline figure of 150 Mbps but the product name Fibre 100 for a 160 Mbps sync service.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Sat 30-Nov-19 12:26:24
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
A follow up question. I need to know what is "normal" when performance testing an FTTP connection. So, in these two examples what is "normal".

1. Using BT's own performance site it always returns with a fault saying "We can't see your Hub online so we're not able to run a speedtest for you at the moment".
Is this just a quirk of FTTP, or can others with FTTP use BT's performance testing page okay?
http://support.bt.com/fix/bbspeedtest/

2. Using the BT Wholesale site, it always returns a result showing very slow and variable performance (10Mbps - 30Mbps).
Again, is this just a quirk of FTTP, or can others with FTTP use BT Wholesale's performance testing page okay?
http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/

I'm just trying to eliminate things in the various problems I'm having with FTTP. All other speed testing sites seem to work okay returning valid results.

Arthur Young
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 30-Nov-19 13:55:33
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
BT Wholesale tester is not good at all for testing FTTP performance and not even that good for VDSL2 either

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bedrock
(member) Sat 30-Nov-19 17:38:03
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Never got the first one of those to work, but the second gives me the following results, I'm on the recently rebranded Halo Fibre 250 (330/50 FTTP)

Download Speed (Mbps): 294.57
Upload Speed (Mbps) : 42.00
Ping Latency (ms): 13

Test was conducted over WiFi

BT Ultrafast Fibre 2

Edited by bedrock (Sat 30-Nov-19 17:39:51)

Standard User thomaswarne01
(member) Mon 02-Dec-19 17:01:59
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: bedrock] [link to this post]
 
lets see what kind of speed you get over Ethernet that looks good either way tbh

My Connection
BT FTTP 150/30
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Mon 02-Dec-19 20:02:04
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: thomaswarne01] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:
lets see what kind of speed you get over Ethernet that looks good either way tbh
All the tests Iíve done are over Ethernet. And speed doesnít look good, being about half of what Iím meant to be getting.

Anyway, had a call from BT on Saturday night saying the problem has been passed to Openreach to fix, but they donít know when frown

Edited by cjgpers (Mon 02-Dec-19 20:05:23)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Dec-19 02:20:37
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
Thanks, still a bit confused. How do I get BT (or is it Openreach) to connect me to the correct wholesale product. Can you suggest specifically what I need to ask them to do.

Looking at a BT Wholesale test, it seems to say my FTTP service has an IP profile of 73.79 Mbps.

BT Wholesale Test
that BRAS IP profile is low for the 80/20 service should be 77.44 mbps same as the max on FTTC there is NO DLM on True fibre so why the IP profile is set so low is a mystery that will limit your throughput
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Dec-19 06:15:42
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Either

a) BT Retail have ordered the wrong product from Openreach, ie 80/20 instead of 160/30

or

b) Openreach have incorrectly put you on 80/20 despite BT Retail putting in an order for 160/30

Either way, it should be up to your CP (BT) to sort this out.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Tue 03-Dec-19 09:01:19
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
that BRAS IP profile is low for the 80/20 service should be 77.44 mbps same as the max on FTTC there is NO DLM on True fibre so why the IP profile is set so low is a mystery that will limit your throughput
I do still wonder if BT (or Openreach) think I'm on an FTTC service? That's what the Openreach engineer thought, and it was the same engineer who fitted the ONT in the first place. I'm due another phone call from BT tomorrow, but speed is still half of what it should be.

speedtest - Its also strange how the speed dropped from a consistent 74 to 71 on 7th November.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Dec-19 09:07:07
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In the original posters case my understanding is that they were already on FTTP 80/20, so most likely situation is that a regrade order has not been placed correctly, or has not been actioned correctly.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Dec-19 09:24:35
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Does the DSL checker show 'ONT exists with active service' for your line? If it does, then Openreach's records are correct. As Mr S says, they've most likely messed up your regrade from 80/20 to 160/30.

https://postimg.cc/w7SHQ1dC

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:12:31
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Does the DSL checker show 'ONT exists with active service' for your line?
Yes, it says "Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Proven Clear. ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered."

Image of Checker

Any idea why it says that there's an open order due to complete 13-Jan-2020?

But BT are insistent that everything is correct at their end, and are waiting for Openreach to get back to them. Although even the MY BT page shows that BT only have me down for an 80/20 service:

MY BT

I'm at my wits end on how to get BT to sort out the problem, it's been going on for weeks frown

Any other suggestions?

Edited by cjgpers (Tue 03-Dec-19 10:14:06)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:15:42
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Throw your toys out of the pram with the Chairmanís Office ....

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:23:29
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
Any idea why it says that there's an open order due to complete 13-Jan-2020?
No idea, but it is either the required upgrade or whatever had been causing BT trouble placing the order.

I would be asking what it is, as it will be clearly visible to Openreach staff.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:26:37
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. I presume you've already queried with BT why 'Fibre 100' is showing up as 80/20 on your online portal when its sold as a product "with average download speeds of 145 Mbps" ? Technically it should be provisioned as 160/30 but don't mention this to them as it will probably confuse them.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/59868...

If you feel you've hit a brick wall with BT then I suggest dropping Andrew (MrSaffron) an email, he may be able to get his contacts at BT or Openreach to sort this out.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 03-Dec-19 10:28:16)

Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:51:45
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Thanks. I presume you've already queried with BT why 'Fibre 100' is showing up as 80/20 on your online portal when its sold as a product "with average download speeds of 145 Mbps" ?
Yes, I've queried that on last two phone calls and emails to the Dundee FTTP team, and BT can't work out why. As I say, I'm due a callback from the Case Manager at the Dundee FTTP team tomorrow, so I'll see how that goes, but I don't hold out much hope, as this is the third order BT have tried processing to upgrade to Fibre 100. Both of the previous orders ended up in a PENDING state, and they really don't seem to have a clue as to what the problem is or how to fix it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Dec-19 12:22:40
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Or I can pester via BT Consumer contacts

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 04-Dec-19 12:06:25
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Or I can pester via BT Consumer contacts
Thanks for the offer, but it looks like an Openreach issue at the moment.

I finally had a call back from BT FTTP team this morning, and they are now escalating to an Openreach manager. It looks like there's an order "stuck" in Openreach's system for our original setup onto FTTP (80/20) back in October, with a completion date of 13th January 2020. BT cancelled that order because of OR delays in unblocking our ducting, and a new order was raised for the 80/20 FTTP which completed on 18th November.. But OR seem to still have the original order on their system.

ADSL Checker with ORDER

Does this make any sense to anyone on here with knowledge on how Openreach systems work? Would an old order with a future date in OR's system cause this sort of problem? Or does this sound like BT making more excuses?

Edited by cjgpers (Wed 04-Dec-19 12:09:01)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Dec-19 12:34:19
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like BT are fobbing you off. If I were you, I would gratefully accept Andrew's offer - he has contacts at both BT and Openreach. That's probably your best chance of getting a speedy fix smile

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 04-Dec-19 12:36:18
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Or I can pester via BT Consumer contacts
I'd be grateful of any help you can offer. I'll send a PM.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Dec-19 15:13:44
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
For record in public, PM system works for forum related stuff but for chasing on up these things which can have timelines of a few weeks always best to email.

[email protected]

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 04-Dec-19 18:54:36
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
It looks like there's an order "stuck" in Openreach's system for our original setup onto FTTP (80/20) back in October, with a completion date of 13th January 2020. BT cancelled that order because of OR delays in unblocking our ducting, and a new order was raised for the 80/20 FTTP which completed on 18th November.. But OR seem to still have the original order on their system.
One small step forward. This outstanding order has now disappeared from the Openreach record at www.dslchecker.bt.com, so hopefully the regrade to 150/30 might happen overnight.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 06-Dec-19 10:15:06
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
One small step forward. This outstanding order has now disappeared from the Openreach record at www.dslchecker.bt.com, so hopefully the regrade to 150/30 might happen overnight.
So an update.

Still no change, a new "high-level" complaint is now opened with the help of Andrew - thanks. BT still seem convinced it's an Openreach problem, despite other reasons to think there must be something wrong at the BT end, such as:
1. THREE attempts by BT to send a new hub out to me have failed, each time the order results in an "Awaiting Despatch" for the hub that just sits there and the hub never gets despatched.
2. BT's own system still says I should only be getting 74Mbps on a Fibre 100 product.
3. I'm unable to turn on BT Web Protect. It never gets activated. Same applies to the Parental Controls.
4. I've never been billed for my FTTP and Landline service.

But trying to convince BT that it might not just be an Openreach problem is an uphill struggle. For some reason every time BT try raising the regrade to 150/30, it changes the date from the next day to the 13th January 2020, which is the date of the original order for when we joined BT FTTP 80/20.

I despair.

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 06-Dec-19 10:20:12)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 06-Dec-19 10:21:08
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Like I said earlier. Given an outstanding order on the line, then no new order can be taken by Openreach.

This has been the case for literally years.

It could even just be that on completion it was never closed off.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User dect
(experienced) Fri 06-Dec-19 10:24:26
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Have they tried a cease and re-provide (on the system only) to see if that flushes the problem out.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 06-Dec-19 10:26:58
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Like I said earlier. Given an outstanding order on the line, then no new order can be taken by Openreach.
Is that also likely to cause the other problems, such as the BT system not despatching a new hub 3 times?

In reply to a post by dect:
Have they tried a cease and re-provide (on the system only) to see if that flushes the problem out.
What's that? Is that something I should suggest to them, as BT are calling me back again this afternoon?I don't want to make things worse by suggesting something that might make the problem worse.

EDIT: Weirdly, an Openreach engineer has just arrived and is lifting the pavement hatch up.

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 06-Dec-19 10:28:45)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Fri 06-Dec-19 10:39:44
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
In reply to a post by dect:
Have they tried a cease and re-provide (on the system only) to see if that flushes the problem out.
What's that? Is that something I should suggest to them, as BT are calling me back again this afternoon?I don't want to make things worse by suggesting something that might make the problem worse.
I was suggesting they cease your broadband and treat you like a new customer. The down side you would be without broadband while its done but it could reset everything.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 06-Dec-19 11:06:47
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
EDIT: Weirdly, an Openreach engineer has just arrived and is lifting the pavement hatch up.

And did you ask them (politely) what he was there for ?

*It seems highly unlikely to be anything to do with your issue ...... they would surely be there on an appointed fault for you.

What would they be able to resolve by testing your fibre UG ?

Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 06-Dec-19 11:30:27
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
And did you ask them (politely) what he was there for ?
Yes. She was pulling fibre for another install in our road. Just a coincidence.

EDIT: "There is an open order on your line which is due to complete by 13-Jan-2020" has now re-appeared on my line at http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 06-Dec-19 11:42:56)

Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 06-Dec-19 13:31:08
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
So, searching through the numerous orders on my account, I find this one:

Image of Order

Image of Order2

Could this be causing the problem? It would explain why I've never been billed, and maybe it's this order from when we originally joined BT FTTP that is causing the problem. But how to convince BT that might be the case?

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 06-Dec-19 13:34:49)

Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Fri 06-Dec-19 14:36:24
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
I think there's one thing perhaps worth clarifying.

Your contract is with BT Retail, and they have *sole* responsibility for fixing this problem. It doesn't matter whether the issue is within their own systems, or within external systems they talk to - both the diagnosis *and* the resolution is entirely up to BTR.

I wouldn't bother trying to suggest possible problems and solutions to them. Unless you have intimate knowledge of BTR's systems (e.g. you used to work for them), it's not going to help. What is required is simply for the problem to be escalated within BTR, to a suitable person who understands the order management systems and can fix the problem.

The problem description is clear and unambiguous: you ordered a regrade to a 150M service, you are still on an 80M service. Therefore, the order has not been delivered.

If this isn't happening, then in the first instance you should ask for evidence that the problem has been escalated internally. If still nothing happens, then raising an official complaint with BTR is next step. After that, there's the OFCOM dispute resolution process. Optionally you can call them out in public on twitter or raise it directly with the CEO's office.

(Of course, the one group you *shouldn't* call out is Openreach. The problem may or may not be in OR's systems; but even if it is, it's entirely BTR's responsibility to resolve it with them)

Don't forget your option option, which is to walk from BTR and choose a more reputable service provider. When you are dealing with the complaints team, if they can't sort the problem then at least they should be able to release you from your contract. And if you've chosen BTR because they're the cheapest, well, now you know why smile
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Tue 10-Dec-19 13:46:03
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Don't forget your option option, which is to walk from BTR and choose a more reputable service provider. When you are dealing with the complaints team, if they can't sort the problem then at least they should be able to release you from your contract. And if you've chosen BTR because they're the cheapest, well, now you know why smile
To be honest, I chose BT because I've had good service from them in the past, and I have no experience (other than SKY) of using any other provider. Reluctant to go down the cancellation route given the problems I had switching from SKY to BT in the first place.

And to give credit to BT, there's been no lack of contact from both teams dealing with the problem - 19 calls in all!! They just seem unable to find the solution. Dundee FTTP team are still convinced it's an Openreach problem, even though some of the symptoms appear within BT systems. It appears that whatever BT do to raise the order for a regrade to 150/30, the order automatically changes to a date of 13th January 2020, which is coincidentally the date on the original order back in September to transfer service from Sky ADSL to BT FTTP 80/20.

Edited by cjgpers (Tue 10-Dec-19 15:54:36)

Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 11-Dec-19 16:48:15
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Any thoughts on this latest explanation from BT?

Apparently Openreach have said that the regrade from 80/20 to 150/30 can't be done until 13th January as that's the earliest an engineer is available. Now it sounds like BT don't believe this explanation, but I'd appreciate any thoughts as to if this is a believable reason. Does a regrade to 150/30 need someone to physically do something at either the exchange or my house?
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-19 16:55:10
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
No it doesn't. This issue needs to be escalated to a *competent* person within BTR.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 11-Dec-19 17:02:34
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
No it doesn't. This issue needs to be escalated to a *competent* person within BTR.

Who? I've already escalated this to the "Executive Customer Resolution Team" (thanks Andrew), but getting them to even consider that this might be a problem within BT's own systems is proving difficult.

I'm still convinced it's to do with this half completed order sitting on BT's system:
PROBLEM ORDER

Given the syptoms:
- Any new order automatically defaults to 13th January 2020.
- Nothing is appearing on BT billing for Broadband

I just can't see how an Openreach problem could affect BT's billing system as well!

Edited by cjgpers (Wed 11-Dec-19 17:02:55)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-19 17:03:11
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like they are waiting for the date on your open orders (13th January 2020) to pass before they do anything more.
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
ADSL Checker with Order
Edit: Probably best to wait until then and see what happens afterward.

Edited by dect (Wed 11-Dec-19 17:07:00)

Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Wed 11-Dec-19 17:13:37
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I guess I could just wait until 13th January. After all, I'm not even paying for my 80/20 service, and each month my account increases with a credit of £8 for the discount I'm receiving. And BT have already agreed £200 compensation for the original 35 day delay in getting FTTP installed in the first place, including for a missed engineer appointment.

But it's really frustrating getting almost daily calls from BT just to tell me they haven't fixed it. I just wonder what will happen on 13th January when this mythical order finally clears!
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-19 17:36:19
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
I guess I could just wait until 13th January. After all, I'm not even paying for my 80/20 service, and each month my account increases with a credit of £8 for the discount I'm receiving. And BT have already agreed £200 compensation for the original 35 day delay in getting FTTP installed in the first place, including for a missed engineer appointment.

But it's really frustrating getting almost daily calls from BT just to tell me they haven't fixed it. I just wonder what will happen on 13th January when this mythical order finally clears!
Don't let them close any escalations that are currently open as you've worked hard to get them open. Make sure they update them to give you a call just after 13th January 2020.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Thu 12-Dec-19 19:19:05
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
So, final update from BT's "Executive Customer Resolution Team" this evening. There's nothing they can do, I have to wait until next year for the order to go through. Bitterly disappointed, and still find it unbelievable that BT can't somehow change the order date on their system. I also remain sceptical that this will get resolved automatically next year.

On the positive side, at least I won't pay for the service until next year!
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 13-Dec-19 07:43:55
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
So, final update from BT's "Executive Customer Resolution Team" this evening. There's nothing they can do, I have to wait until next year for the order to go through. Bitterly disappointed, and still find it unbelievable that BT can't somehow change the order date on their system. I also remain sceptical that this will get resolved automatically next year.

On the positive side, at least I won't pay for the service until next year!

I find it bizarre that BT Wholesale and/or Openreach cannot re-grade your FTTP line from 80/20 to 160/30 in a matter of days, considering my second FTTP line got activated in only 48 hrs on an already active ONT last month (that was with Trunk Networks though). I suspect BT Retail's ordering systems have been totally messed up by their new Fibre 100 & Fibre 250 products.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 13-Dec-19 10:46:12
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
I find it bizarre that BT Wholesale and/or Openreach cannot re-grade your FTTP line from 80/20 to 160/30 in a matter of days, considering my second FTTP line got activated in only 48 hrs on an already active ONT last month (that was with Trunk Networks though). I suspect BT Retail's ordering systems have been totally messed up by their new Fibre 100 & Fibre 250 products.
Yes, that's exactly my suspicion as well. Remember that when I switched to BT back in September it was to an old product, but by the time Openreach had delayed everything BT were then on the new products.

BT have said that they've tried unwinding the stuck order, but can't find a way to do it. It's obviously in their own interest to do that, since BT are losing over £50 a month in not being able to collect my monthly charges for Halo Fibre 100, Talk, and Anytime Calls, whilst at the same time still crediting my account every month with the £8 special offer discount.

BILL

Edited by cjgpers (Fri 13-Dec-19 10:51:19)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 13-Dec-19 11:32:50
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In that case, its not the end of the world getting FTTP 80/20 for free with a 8 quid credit on your account every month smile

Btw, I'm guessing you have a single port ONT rather than the older 4 port version?

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Fri 13-Dec-19 11:46:00
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Btw, I'm guessing you have a single port ONT rather than the older 4 port version?
Correct. Single port, no BBU.

PHOTO OF ONT
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Fri 13-Dec-19 20:52:32
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
BT have said that they've tried unwinding the stuck order, but can't find a way to do it.


Translation: a particular team of people in BT have tried to push through the stuck order, and have been unable to do it using the tools and techniques they have been given.

However, what they have failed to do is to escalate it to a technical team with deeper knowledge of the systems. There certainly are technical experts within BT who *could* fix the system problem, rather than just repeatedly press the "resubmit order" butter.

So why haven't they escalated the problem on your behalf?

Being charitable, it could be that the team you are talking to are unaware of their own internal procedures for escalation.

Alternatively, it could be that the team you are talking to does not have permission to escalate issues. Maybe BT have taken a business decision that fixing problems with individual retail customers is too expensive; they would rather lose customers than solve their problems. If that is true, it is sad.

If they are either unable or unwilling to escalate, then the only option I can see is to go through the complaints team - or the CEO office.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 14-Dec-19 09:31:55
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
When all else fails and an order can't progress due to 'system issues' then a bridge case will need to be raised. That in itself may require escalation internally.
Standard User clyde123
(member) Sun 15-Dec-19 14:59:18
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
Not wishing to make excuses for BT, but I wonder if it's in any way due to Christmas shutdowns.

BT :
Monday 9th December 00:01 to Monday 16th December 00:01 Ė Christmas Pre- Embargo Service Protection.
Monday 16th December 00:02 to Thursday 2nd January 2020 23:59 Ė Full Embargo Christmas and New Year.
Thursday 2nd January 23:59 to Monday 13th January 2020 12:00 - Christmas Post-Embargo Service Protection.
Standard User DougM
(committed) Sun 15-Dec-19 15:45:46
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: clyde123] [link to this post]
 
Thereís certainly no change freeze. I ordered a regrade of my FTTP from 80/20 to Fibre 100 on Wednesday and it completed at 4am Saturday morning. The connection bounced and speed tests jumped.

I suspect the OPís problem is a stuck order blocking BT Retailís system from submitting anything until it clears, coupled with an unwillingness to engage the right team to manually clear it.

Still, at least the OP gets a great deal on their 80/20 in the meantime!

-==-
DougM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Dec-19 16:42:13
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: DougM] [link to this post]
 
Those freeze dates will be referring to things like core network changes, rather than end-user orders

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cjgpers
(regular) Sun 15-Dec-19 16:51:58
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: DougM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DougM:
I suspect the OPís problem is a stuck order blocking BT Retailís system from submitting anything until it clears, coupled with an unwillingness to engage the right team to manually clear it.
My understanding from the ďExecutive Customer Resolution TeamĒ is that they got technical support to try clear the order but were unable to. I believe what theyíve said, after all the contact I was given in that team was via. Andrew. Iíve worked in IT long enough to know that sometimes trying to fix this sort of problem could have unpredictable results.

Iíd still like to understand how FTTP speed is regulated. My hub shows connected at 1000Mbps, so is the speed regulated by Openreach equipment or BT equipment?

Edited by cjgpers (Sun 15-Dec-19 17:04:00)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Sun 15-Dec-19 16:53:45
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Those freeze dates will be referring to things like core network changes, rather than end-user orders
Totally agree most large companies have internal embargos during the run up to xmas and a week or so after new year, only emergency changes get signed off and need approval at the very highest level as nobody wants major system issues over this period.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Sun 15-Dec-19 17:51:45
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cjgpers:
Iíd still like to understand how FTTP speed is regulated. My hub shows connected at 1000Mbps, so is the speed regulated by Openreach equipment or BT equipment?


It's the line profile on the OLT - i.e. Openreach equipment.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Dec-19 17:53:45
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Re: How is FTTP speed regulated


[re: cjgpers] [link to this post]
 
The hub is reporting the speed of the Ethernet cable between the hub and the Openreach ONT i.e. Gigabit Ethernet

All ONT on a split are sharing 2.5 Gbps down, and elsewhere in Openreach network a line profile is set which limits each user to the speed they paid for.

Edited by MrSaffron (Sun 15-Dec-19 17:54:44)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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