General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 29-Nov-19 23:51:37
Print Post

Gfast at 360 meters


[link to this post]
 
Andrew managed to get my line added on the DSL checker for gfast (big thanks) and i've had it installed today. I knew I was on the limit and the line is about 70 ish meters longer than I first thought.

Estimate was between 120mbs and 144mbs and I'm syncing at 116mbs down and 13mbs up.

Is this a little low for a 360 ish meter line or about right?

Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:9.5 DS2:20.9 DS3:31.1 US0:5.3 US1:17.8 US2:24.6
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:6.5 DS2:6.5 DS3:6.5 US0:13.7 US1:13.8 US2:13.8
Sky Q Hub
My Broadband Ping
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Nov-19 01:27:46
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Pretty rubbish indeed. Go back to VDSL if I were u. The upload u lose more than VDSL
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 30-Nov-19 06:03:24
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Thatís the thing isnít it ..... it nose dives very quickly as it reaches its operational boundries.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Nov-19 06:47:46
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Not sure if its worth worrying over 4 Mb/s, ie getting 116 Mb/s instead of 120+. Unless your CP has guaranteed you a minimum speed of 120 Mb/s on gfast and will let you leave penalty free if your line isn't able to achieve that?

I see your upload has decreased from 20 Mb/s on vdsl2 to 13 Mb/s on gfast shocked What were your estimated upload speeds?

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Sat 30-Nov-19 09:34:27
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
Is this a little low for a 360 ish meter line or about right?


I'd say it's good for that line length. G.fast uses only the higher frequencies (to avoid those used by ADSL and VDSL) and those are the ones which suffer the most from attenuation over distance.

Check your contract to see if you have a speed guarantee. Consider how much extra you're paying for G.fast, and whether it's worth it for a small increase in download speed and a loss in upload speed.

The sync speed that you get could change over time based on factors such as temperature and humidity - even on VDSL I find I get 4.5-5Mbps upload in winter and 3.5-4Mbps upload in summer (that's on an estimated 800-900m line length)
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 30-Nov-19 09:53:27
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
Is this a little low for a 360 ish meter line or about right?


I'd say it's good for that line length. G.fast uses only the higher frequencies (to avoid those used by ADSL and VDSL) and those are the ones which suffer the most from attenuation over distance.

Check your contract to see if you have a speed guarantee. Consider how much extra you're paying for G.fast, and whether it's worth it for a small increase in download speed and a loss in upload speed.

The sync speed that you get could change over time based on factors such as temperature and humidity - even on VDSL I find I get 4.5-5Mbps upload in winter and 3.5-4Mbps upload in summer (that's on an estimated 800-900m line length)



It's actually cheaper for me to have upgraded to gfast due to the black friday deal and other discounts on my account.

We estimate your line could support between:

120.1 and 144.2 Mbps download speed
7.0 and 19.3 Mbps upload speed

You should expect a Guaranteed Minimum Download Speed of 100.0 Mbps.

Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:9.5 DS2:20.9 DS3:31.1 US0:5.3 US1:17.8 US2:24.6
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:6.5 DS2:6.5 DS3:6.5 US0:13.7 US1:13.8 US2:13.8
Sky Q Hub
My Broadband Ping
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 30-Nov-19 10:35:06
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
If the drop in upload speed is OK and the extra download speed is good for you then its stay with it.

As for expectations, its in line with what I'd expect

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 30-Nov-19 11:34:37
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The upload doesn't really bother me too much. The engineer did say this is the longest he has seen it work and he nearly didn't bother even installing it be was suprised by the sync. he said my line is 332 meters to the DP.

Hopefully BT deploy the unused spectrum between VDSL and Gast to get a better range of speeds.

Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:9.5 DS2:20.9 DS3:31.1 US0:5.3 US1:17.8 US2:24.6
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:6.5 DS2:6.5 DS3:6.5 US0:13.7 US1:13.8 US2:13.8
Sky Q Hub
My Broadband Ping
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Nov-19 12:17:22
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Fair enough, though I imagine most people wouldn't bother upgrading from FTTC 80/20 to G.Fast 116/13, especially if asked to pay extra.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Nov-19 22:51:54
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Fair enough, though I imagine most people wouldn't bother upgrading from FTTC 80/20 to G.Fast 116/13, especially if asked to pay extra.


This ^^ 116/13 from 80/20 is not worth the extra cost! If the cost the same as VDSL then it worth it but not worth it because of poor upload speed.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Sun 01-Dec-19 09:47:55
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
The upload doesn't really bother me too much. The engineer did say this is the longest he has seen it work and he nearly didn't bother even installing it be was suprised by the sync. he said my line is 332 meters to the DP.

Hopefully BT deploy the unused spectrum between VDSL and Gast to get a better range of speeds.


Do you mean 332 metres to the PCP?

Icaras
Standard User dect
(experienced) Sun 01-Dec-19 10:11:27
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Icaras:
Do you mean 332 metres to the PCP?
The reason for this question is that G.Fast equipment is normally located in a pod attached to a PCP.

A DP is simply a distribution point located somewhere between your PCP and your property, its used to serve a smaller number of properties and can normally be found at the top of a telephone pole or in a joint box in the footway so has no bearing on the speed.

Edit: Don't like the word serve as its really just a junction box with a large paired cable in and smaller paired cables out to each property it serves.

Edited by dect (Sun 01-Dec-19 10:19:15)

Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Dec-19 11:53:35
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
No he said from the cab to the DP which is the manhole cover outside my house on the path. I would say there is probably another 20 to 30 meters of cable from that to my house.

Google maps has it at exactly 290 meters from the cab to my house by foot.

Connection Speed 116631 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast
My Broadband Ping

Edited by lockyatlrg (Sun 01-Dec-19 11:54:51)

Standard User partial
(experienced) Sun 01-Dec-19 12:12:07
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
The installer's tester will over measure around 10% on aluminium. Possibly more now they using american kit .Just throwing that into the mix.

Sounds like the wholesale checker was bang on the money in not pre qualifying you for gfast.

802
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Dec-19 16:49:02
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
No the checker was off as my house was added to the plot at a later date and all others that are even further than me could get it and have it. So the checker needed updating and Andrew managed to do that for me.

There is no Alu on my D-side its all .5 copper back to the cab.

With the colder days my line has gone up to 118mbs so its on 2mbs from the lower side of the estimate.

My ping is lower on Gfast. On VDSL it was 10ms to bbc and on Gfast its 6ms to bbc

Connection Speed 116631 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast
My Broadband Ping

Edited by lockyatlrg (Sun 01-Dec-19 16:50:22)

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 02-Dec-19 13:00:20
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Connection Speed 116631 kbps 12955 kbps G.Fast
Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps VDSL

I rather have VDSL than G.Fast
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 02-Dec-19 13:28:25
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
No the checker was off as my house was added to the plot at a later date and all others that are even further than me could get it and have it.

That makes no sense because its highly unlikely that those properties further away from the g.fast pod than yours would be able to order a usable service - since you're already at the limits.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 02-Dec-19 14:06:44
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
That makes no sense because its highly unlikely that those properties further away from the g.fast pod than yours would be able to order a usable service - since you're already at the limits.
Sounded strange to me too but the only thing I could think of is that the properties further away may be further by road but not by cable run (e.g. up one side of the road and back down the other side)
Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 02-Dec-19 14:20:47
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
Connection Speed 116631 kbps 12955 kbps G.Fast
Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps VDSL

I rather have VDSL than G.Fast
I think its a personally choice with no right or wrong answer, I would take the G.fast but its all down to what best suits your requirements.
Standard User kasg
(knowledge is power) Mon 02-Dec-19 15:02:47
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
No the checker was off as my house was added to the plot at a later date and all others that are even further than me could get it and have it.

That makes no sense because its highly unlikely that those properties further away from the g.fast pod than yours would be able to order a usable service - since you're already at the limits.

I'm guessing that at around 450m (and syncing at the full 80/20) I'd stand no chance of getting (or benefiting from) G.fast, not that it's available here anyway. Happy to wait for the promised full-fibre!

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra - sync 79999/20000 at around 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST

Edited by kasg (Mon 02-Dec-19 15:03:45)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Dec-19 15:20:40
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
Might work but nothing more than VDSL2 for download and upload will suffer more

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Dec-19 15:37:00
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
The Gfast was cheaper for me by 9 pounds a month and the ping is lower too plus a boost in download speed (my kids hammer downloads) so I will keep the gfast.

The checker is for Gfast on my cab is all over place. even some that about about 50 meters away can't get it yet have an 80/80 vdsl estimate. The person who has it on my street is slightly closer to the cab than me and gets higher speeds but there is houses that are further away which have higher estimates and me and have no hope of it working for them. This is what I'm trying to say.

Connection Speed 117483 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast 360 meters
My Broadband Ping

Edited by lockyatlrg (Mon 02-Dec-19 15:37:35)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 02-Dec-19 15:47:26
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
No the checker was off as my house was added to the plot at a later date and all others that are even further than me could get it and have it. So the checker needed updating and Andrew managed to do that for me.
Just for accuracy this is different than what you previously posted on 30th June 2019 where you stated G.fast had been visible on the DSL checker for your property but had disappeared.

Around the 28th June 2019 Openreach changed the G.fast minimum selling rule from 100Mbps download to 120Mbps download so its disappearance from the DSL Checker for your property was in fact correct.

Edit: That's not to say you have it now and its an improvement so a good result smile

Edited by dect (Mon 02-Dec-19 15:50:41)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 02-Dec-19 15:57:38
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
even some that about about 50 meters away can't get it yet have an 80/80 vdsl estimate. The person who has it on my street is slightly closer to the cab than me and gets higher speeds but there is houses that are further away which have higher estimates and me and have no hope of it working for them.
As I tried to say before don't confuse physical distance from the cab with the distance the cable has to run, You thought originally your cable run was only 230m but now you believe its closer to 360m and the same can be said for the distance your neighbours cables run especially if they are in ducting.
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Dec-19 16:48:33
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
No the checker was off as my house was added to the plot at a later date and all others that are even further than me could get it and have it. So the checker needed updating and Andrew managed to do that for me.
Just for accuracy this is different than what you previously posted on 30th June 2019 where you stated G.fast had been visible on the DSL checker for your property but had disappeared.

Around the 28th June 2019 Openreach changed the G.fast minimum selling rule from 100Mbps download to 120Mbps download so its disappearance from the DSL Checker for your property was in fact correct.

Edit: That's not to say you have it now and its an improvement so a good result smile



I thought it was closer to that length but turns out it wasn't

So why did it not disappear for every other house on my street even houses further away connected on the same cable as me? Because the checker is and was off and the contact in BT Andrew had admitted as such and corrected it.

The Engineer who installed it said he was going off something called live maps for my line length and not an actual test with a JDSU or whatever they are using. So how accurate that is I don't know.

Off google maps my line route is 280 meters from the cab to here which includes me adding a bit on for crossing roads and round paths So I was going off a direct route which is about 230 meters but it seems to be mid 300. I think all the line length is guess work until an actual test is done but that's not going to happen now and it is what it is.

My line keeps improving which I think it down to the cold conditions currently I'm at 119mbs down now.

Connection Speed 117483 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast 360 meters
My Broadband Ping

Edited by lockyatlrg (Mon 02-Dec-19 16:51:20)

Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Dec-19 16:56:14
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 63.2 20 19 57.3 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 60.5 20 19 55 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) 157.4 130.4 20.8 7.6 110.6 Amber Amber
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 117.2 75.5 12.8 6 67.6 Amber Amber

This is the estimate for me and a few others on my street.


No idea if you can guess any line length from that.

Connection Speed 117483 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast 360 meters
My Broadband Ping
Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 02-Dec-19 17:07:08
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 63.2 20 19 57.3 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 60.5 20 19 55 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) 157.4 130.4 20.8 7.6 110.6 Amber Amber
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 117.2 75.5 12.8 6 67.6 Amber Amber

This is the estimate for me and a few others on my street.


No idea if you can guess any line length from that.
Sorry no idea

In the past we used a mole to check the distance, it was very accurate and a lot better than JDSU's for testing distance (I'm sure those who are still in the job who still have one will confirm that).
Standard User TheInstaller
(newbie) Mon 02-Dec-19 17:40:20
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
I thought it was closer to that length but turns out it wasn't

So why did it not disappear for every other house on my street even houses further away connected on the same cable as me? Because the checker is and was off and the contact in BT Andrew had admitted as such and corrected it.

The Engineer who installed it said he was going off something called live maps for my line length and not an actual test with a JDSU or whatever they are using. So how accurate that is I don't know.

Off google maps my line route is 280 meters from the cab to here which includes me adding a bit on for crossing roads and round paths So I was going off a direct route which is about 230 meters but it seems to be mid 300. I think all the line length is guess work until an actual test is done but that's not going to happen now and it is what it is.

You have no way of knowing where the cable runs underground, as you have discovered, the distance is greater than you think.

Very simple image here to explain what might be happening and why the houses you think are further away, are actually closer to the cab as far as cable length is concerned.

https://i.postimg.cc/PJv5DjYp/cable-run.png
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Dec-19 18:12:02
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In the past we used a mole to check the distance, it was very accurate and a lot better than JDSU's for testing distance (I'm sure those who are still in the job who still have one will confirm that).

.... and if anyone has a cover for a Tester 301 (the yellow one) I know someone whoíd be very interested .... his third cover has just given up the ghost, contents still mint and working sweet as.

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 02-Dec-19 19:53:03
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: TheInstaller] [link to this post]
 
I have to agree with this.

My house g.fast estimated are 114/9 but two next doors to mine getting 330/50 as our both houses are run underground cable to same layout to the closer pcp g.fast pod. Two next doors house got this below in their front garden to the property below:

https://ibb.co/FWY0vfV - make me think this are the main reason for their easily 330/50 g.fast.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 02-Dec-19 19:55:14)

Standard User MC31
(member) Mon 02-Dec-19 20:40:34
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Think i saw one in Tilehurst exch ( the old bit at front )

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:03:25
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
Hopefully BT deploy the unused spectrum between VDSL and Gast to get a better range of speeds.


There is none, they already changed band plans to use it a while ago.
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Dec-19 10:58:32
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
Hopefully BT deploy the unused spectrum between VDSL and Gast to get a better range of speeds.


There is none, they already changed band plans to use it a while ago.


According to who? From what ive read up and been told this is not the case.

Edit I've done some digging and they have changed the band plan on some cabs not all and its in the process of being rolled out. From what i've read up Vectoring needs to be enabled on VDSL but don't quote me on that.

Connection Speed 117483 kbps 12955 kbps
Line Attenuation D1(44.7 dB) , D2(0.0 dB) , D3(0.0 dB) U0(0.0 dB) , U1(0.0 dB) , U2(0.0 dB)
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 3.1 dB
Sky Q Hub Sky G.fast 360 meters
My Broadband Ping

Edited by lockyatlrg (Tue 03-Dec-19 11:12:22)

Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Dec-19 11:14:20
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
You've been told wrong.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23767.msg40...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/08/band-p...

Edit: just seen your edit.

Every single G.Fast line I've seen in the last couple months has the new band plan.
If you have access to stats it's easy to tell.

Will be rolled out across the country by now.

2nd edit:

From what i've read up Vectoring needs to be enabled on VDSL but don't quote me on that.


Quoted anyway. That's absolutely nonsense.
VDSL2 Vectoring and G.Fast are completely unrelated.
It makes as much sense as saying my microwave must be on.

The G.Fast and VDSL2 DSLAM's do not talk to each other. They simply share a power supply.
Vectoring being present on the VDSL2 DSLAM makes absolutely zero difference to G.Fast. They're on different frequencies. The presence or lack of Vectoring makes ZERO difference.

The cabinet the G.Fast band plan changes were initially spotted on (linked above from kitz forum) does not have VDSL2 Vectoring, and likely will never have it.

Would love to know where you read that VDSL2 Vectoring is required for the G.Fast band plan changes or if you're just making stuff up.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 03-Dec-19 15:06:44)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Dec-19 06:16:46
Print Post

Re: Gfast at 360 meters


[re: MC31] [link to this post]
 
Thanks MC, I donít get over that way any more (as you know) if you are in that neck of the woods could you check for me please ?

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to