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Standard User MrFied
(learned) Fri 24-Jan-20 09:45:24
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Gigaclear - Slow upload


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I've recently had Gigaclear FTTP installed. I must say, I've been surprisingly happy with the whole process (bar a couple of minor issues during installation). Initially, I could see almost perfect 300/300 Mbps symmetrical download and upload. However, over the last week or so my upload has been consistently no better than half the download speed. Download is still well up around 300Mbps, but upload is never better than 150 (on some testers, as low as 26Mbps).

I saw another related post here: https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4634524-wh...
But that seems to be mostly about why BT provide an asymmetric service. Gigaclear 'promise' a symmetric service.

I've tried contacting Gigaclear support, but it is obviously overwhelmed (no response by either email or phone). I posted a review on trustpilot and got a rather condescending reply suggesting I was probably testing over wifi (I'm not) or using a slow server (I'm using their own tester on their own website, so it shouldn't get any better).

My question is rather vague. But I'm wondering whether this issue is likely to be caused by the tester I'm using? Or whether perhaps Gigaclear are throttling upload on the assumption most people won't notice or care. I work from home and regularly upload Gb files to my company servers.

I suppose if other Gigaclear users on here have seen something similar (or not) that would also be interesting.

Thanks.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Fri 24-Jan-20 09:50:17
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrFied] [link to this post]
 
Out of interest what Gigaclear area are you in?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 24-Jan-20 09:52:33
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrFied] [link to this post]
 
If using a tester that is running on Gigaclear infrastructure - believe they do have one and still getting slow uploads suggests a fault or congestion somewhere.

From reading twitter do spot people moaning about outages and slow speeds, so you are not alone.

If the speeds improve in the 1am to 6am time window then points towards congestion.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Jan-20 09:52:45
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrFied] [link to this post]
 
Try a few different testers and try using a different PC/Laptop for the wired tests.

No idea why someone would leave a Trust Pilot review before even allowing them the opportunity to investigate, nevermind fix the issue.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 24-Jan-20 09:53:04)

Standard User sheephouse
(member) Fri 24-Jan-20 10:02:30
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrFied] [link to this post]
 
Although the speeds Gigaclear offer are symmetric, they are contended (business packages are 10-1, and the residential packages 25-1) - but I wouldn't be surprised if the upload is more heavily contended than download.
Standard User CarlTSpeak
(member) Fri 24-Jan-20 11:22:52
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrFied] [link to this post]
 
Strange. I thought FTTP was immune to such speed issues.

More seriously depending on how Gigaclear are delivering the service it could take literally a single neighbour on their top package running a torrent client that's seeding without limits to trigger your issues.

Building better networks, not just faster ones.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Fri 24-Jan-20 13:05:40
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
Although the speeds Gigaclear offer are symmetric, they are contended (business packages are 10-1, and the residential packages 25-1) - but I wouldn't be surprised if the upload is more heavily contended than download.


They will be more heavily contended because GPON over which the connection is delivered is asymmetric. So if it was 10-1 contended on the download it would be 20-1 contended on the upload by definition.
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Fri 24-Jan-20 13:20:24
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
If upload is half the download, but the headline speed is the same, then the effective contention for upload is 50-1. I'd suggest that explains the observed rate.
Standard User MrFied
(learned) Fri 24-Jan-20 14:03:54
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Try a few different testers and try using a different PC/Laptop for the wired tests.

No idea why someone would leave a Trust Pilot review before even allowing them the opportunity to investigate, nevermind fix the issue.

The reason I left a Trust Pilot review is that after a week of trying, I could get no response from Gigaclear support. It is interesting that within a day of posting the review, they started to respond - albeit only via trustpilot.
Standard User MrFied
(learned) Fri 24-Jan-20 14:06:39
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks everyone for responses. If its contention, I guess that's just something I will have to live with.
I might try a few early morning tests to see if anything changes.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Jan-20 16:44:36
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
They will be more heavily contended because GPON over which the connection is delivered is asymmetric. So if it was 10-1 contended on the download it would be 20-1 contended on the upload by definition.

The Gigaclear connection I have does not use GPON. The fibre to my router is connected to a port in the cabinet. The equipment uses a proprietary protocol. Both downloads and uploads are subject to contention.

Michael Chare
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 24-Jan-20 16:54:50
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Proprietary?

Or just point to point fibre rather than GPON?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Fri 24-Jan-20 17:02:57
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I found this description of what Gigaclear apparently use: https://www.keymile.com/en/web/keymile/gigaclear-rel...
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 25-Jan-20 06:25:09
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I believe the equipment I have uses a protocol developed by Genexis who supply the equipment. I am in Kent. Other locations might be different. It is certainly point to point.

Michael Chare
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Sat 25-Jan-20 10:08:33
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
Well that suggests that they are using compact SFP's or cSFP for short. Not something I have come across before. Not unreasonably because although I deal fibre all the time with work for the last 15 years, cSFP's are a very specialised thing only available from a few vendors and their use case is not really relevant at work.

Basically a cSFP is two BiDi SFP's squeezed into a single SFP form factor. This works because the SFP standard was designed to allow two LC connectors for your normal transmit and receive. BiDi put both transmit and receive on a single fibre at different wavelengths. As a normal BiDi SFP only has a single LC connector a cSFP can put two BiDi SFP's inside the physical foot print of one. The advantage being that you double your port count on switches which saves physical space and cost. That said I pity those having to cable up a 480 port cSFP switch. Mind you I am not sure the cost savings are really their as cSFP's or two channel BiDi as they are also called are very expensive, £85 for two channel BiDi SFP at fs.com

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/75333.html

versus under £10 for a standard one.

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/75333.html

However reading the available keymile documentation it is just a plain BiDi ethernet connection and consumer premises equipment is basically a standard BiDi media converter, and you could replace it with one of your own or a BiDi SFP directly in a router. The tick will be determining whether you need a 1310nm or 1490nm (it appears cSFP's dont come in the 1550nm variety). You could either examine the Gigaclear equipment or for an extra £10 just buy one of each and try till you get link

Then it will be a case of working out what they are doing to establish the layer 3 connection. I guess the options are PPPoE (would seem daft to me), VLAN tagging, DHCP options, or possibly 802.1X. Thinking about it one of each would allow you to put a cheap managed switch with a couple of SFP ports in front of the Gigaclear equipment and turn on port mirroring and easily see what they are doing to establish the layer 3 connection.

I very much doubt that the layer 3 is established using some propriety protocol, because it would be a lot of expense for no benefit. The layer two would appear to be standards based however.

I would say for someone so minded it would be possible to ditch an Gigaclear provided customer premise equipment. I know I would be smile
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Sat 25-Jan-20 13:06:08
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Here's a document with some more details of the Gigaclear setup : https://715208136624-codedeploy-assets-production.s3...

It's a bit beyond my networking knowledge, but I'd welcome an executive summary.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Sun 26-Jan-20 09:40:34
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
It's BiDi Ethernet at layer 2. Layer 3 will be down to the ISP though I don't think anyone other than Gigaclear is yet offering a service. It also says the NTE is changing from a all in one thing (that is not exactly brilliant by all accounts) to a simple media converter that turns the optical ethernet to twister pair from Q4 2019. With a separate CPE (consumer premise equipment) aka router to you.

Like I said previously a managed switch could be used to work out how the layer 3 connection is being provided. This could vary between ISP's so there is no definitive method. However given it's basically plain ethernet at layer 2, I would use 802.1X for an authenticated layer 3.

I guess if you are on the older NTE and want to change to the new one you could deploy an ethernet killer to force a replacement by arranging for the existing one to die without visible damage.
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Sun 26-Jan-20 11:30:55
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Re: Gigaclear - Slow upload


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Gigaclear do provide a list on their website of ISPs that use their network, but given their wholesale price list I'm not sure it will be very lucrative for them.
I don't have Gigaclear - I'm in a BDUK area where the build should be complete by the end of 2018, although Gigaclear haven't completed the network design yet so it will be a few years more before it reaches me.
As a home based IT worker superfast (or better) broadband would be very welcome, but I'm likely to retire before it becomes available.
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