Only houses in village without FTTP

Our village is relatively small (135 houses) and, whilst internet speeds aren't too bad, working at home has made me hope for something a little speedier.

I checked on the Openreach page and it suggested no plans for FTTP but that I could investigate a 'community fibre partnership'. So, I spoke to our neighbours and it turns everyone else in the village can, in theory, get FTTP already. This is a checker comparison of my house and my neighbours house (he's literally 10m away).

I then got a quote from Cerberus for FTTPoD. It said "Estimated Build Cost: in excess of £39,000.00 ex VAT. Number of premises passed for FTTP: 6. Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 1000 - 1499m."

Now, my house (part of a terrace of 6) does seem to use its own pole, which could explain why it can't get FTTP. Otherwise, I can't think of why our neighbour can order FTTP but we can't (he doesn't have it though).

I was just wondering whether I should forge ahead with the £250 survey from openreach for an accurate estimate? Certainly anywhere near £39000 (ex VAT) would make it prohibitively expensive.

It may just be one of those things, but I wondered if anyone had any advice. It feels like fast internet is so close ... yet so far.

Do neighbours who have the WBC FTTP have overhead feed lines? i.e. can you see the FTTP kit ready for when they order.

It may be that your pole was that fraction closer that the BDUK project criteria that saw neighbours get something mean you got nothing.

Email me on Tuesday with full address and will ask Openreach, it may be a mistake, or some not visible reason for no including you.

Thanks - I will email.the details.

I had a wander around the village earlier. Some of the poles clearly have FTTP kit on them (I spotted the fibre manifold and, I think, distribution point').

A couple of photos of poles here. Not sure what the neighbours made of my photograpy!

What's interesting is that most houses have links back to one of these FTTP poles so could probably be connected by routing a wire between poles. For our house, the pole appears out of the ground, and so would either need something routing underground or, I guess, routing from a different pole.

Pics 2 and 3 show FTTP kit, others do not.

The underground especially if directly buried cables is probably the problem, should hopefully be able to find out more once have your details, rather than guessing from our own maps.

Looks like two lots of dropwire 8 coming off your pole and that stuff kills BB.

Looks like two lots of dropwire 8 coming off your pole and that stuff kills BB.

Luckily the run of wire to our house is relatively short. I'm sure it affects the speed, but we're not far off the theoretical maximum for our distance from the cabinet.

Our big issue is that the connection drops when it rains. Perhaps once every hour or so we get a 'blip' which causes the connection to drop. In fine weather like today, however, there are no problems at all.

I guess it's water getting into the cable somewhere. An optical cable rather than an electrical one would solve all our problems!

In reply to a post by marble:

Looks like two lots of dropwire 8 coming off your pole and that stuff kills BB.

Luckily the run of wire to our house is relatively short. I'm sure it affects the speed, but we're not far off the theoretical maximum for our distance from the cabinet.

The old figure of 8 drop wire kills broadband speeds.
OpenReach will replace this for free.
I've always seen (in my opinion) considerable gains from having them replaced.

What theoretical maximum are you basing that on? The speed/distance guide on this site is on the very cautious side if you're using that.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 24-Jun-20 20:09:31)

OpenReach will replace this for free.
I've always seen (in my opinion) considerable gains from having them replaced.

Interesting. We sync at 23-26 Mbps downstream. Our cabinet is 1050m away according to Google maps, and assuming it follows the main road (which I know is a big assumption! ... the road is relatively straight though).

That seemed to fit with guides and their estimate of speeds.

Given that I have a fault with the line during wet weather, openreach replacing the drop wire would be welcomed from both hopefully resolving that, and a speed improvment. How would I go about doing that ... raise some kind of ticket with my ISP?

You definitely don't sync at the highest theoretical speed then.

My line is 1024m long and I sync at 44Mb (at 3dB SNRM).
I sync at the high end and that won't be possible on all (or even most) lines that are that long.

I would recommend getting it fixed. Raise it with the ISP. Explain that you have a non standard drop wire.
It will be easier with some ISP's compared to others.

Any engineer who attends should replace it.

edit: what attenuation does the modem report for your line? That's a good indicator of the rough length.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 25-Jun-20 16:41:48)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It will be easier with some ISP's compared to others.

edit: what attenuation does the modem report for your line? That's a good indicator of the rough length.

The two attenuation values I have are (for a SNR of 3dB):
NE Current Attenuation : 27 dB
Far Current Attenuation : 34 dB

Both values suggest I am further away from my cabinet than I thought .. or would the dropwire be affecting that value?

My ISP is Zen so hopefully they may be more willing to help than other ISPs.

(Full modem stats here. I rebooted it earlier this evening as I was surprised the 'actual' rate was higher than the 'attainable' rate!).

The attenuation suggests further, yes.

I'm not entirely sure if the figure 8 drop wire would increase attenuation. I've no idea what guage it is our what the wire is made of.

You shouldn't have too much bother with Zen hopefully.

In reply to a post by marble:

Interesting. We sync at 23-26 Mbps downstream. Our cabinet is 1050m away according to Google maps, and assuming it follows the main road (which I know is a big assumption! ... the road is relatively straight though).

Even allowing for odd routing, 1050 metres is relatively short. I know of FTTC being provided over lines in excess of 3.5km.

Enquiry has gone into Openreach but theory based on looking on what has been deployed where is that the speeds for this property and others in the postcode was just above the threshold for the project in that area.

Criteria does seem to vary, as some BDUK FTTP is all properties below 24 Mbps (excusing the odd very long run to DP property) when delivering in a cabinet area. Some others seem to be targeting the slowest where speeds are below 10 Mbps.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Criteria does seem to vary, as some BDUK FTTP is all properties below 24 Mbps (excusing the odd very long run to DP property) when delivering in a cabinet area. Some others seem to be targeting the slowest where speeds are below 10 Mbps.

**WAVES**

That would be me.

Thanks for your help looking into this. We received the response from Openreach, and the answer was not what I was perhaps hoping for. They basically said that it wasn't a mistake and no to FTTP.

Somewhat annoying to be so close to fast internet, and yet not be able to get it.

Oh well, will wait a few years until the government's promise of gigabit internet in every home by 2025.

If you are on good terms with your neighbour, how about getting FTTP at his premises and running Ethernet to yours. Get the bill in your name and his only cost is the electricity for the ONT. ( Maybe router)

From my quick look on the checker I found a post code with only 6 Properties on it. No 1 had the exact speeds that the Op had posted so as he had said he was in a terrace of 6 houses it could be a match.

None of the 6 properties have WBC FTTP available. I don't know which neighbour showed availability but it would seem to be a checker error. There is FTTP in nearby postcodes.

When I lived in a small village there was FTTP available on the edges of the area but I had 80/20 FTTC from a cabinet, the checker showed FTTP available for my next door neighbour which I think was wrong, FTTP was available about 100 yards down the road! There has to be a boundary somewhere which is unlucky if you happen to be on it.!

Yes, I think you've found my house! My neighbours in the other 5 properties on the terrace can't get FTTP either.We're all sitting off one pole at the end of the village.

My neighbour to the north who isn't in the terrace is in a different postcode and can get FTTP.. Whilst we share a boundary, his house is fenced off into its own (much larger) plot and we rarely exchange more than a friendly wave.

The pole he uses for phone is, strangely, closer to my house than the pole my phone comes from. It's also FTTP enabled ... hence my slight frustration!

you neighbour is showing FTTP with a 1 stage order than means its close but it might likley to need a survey as part of order journey to actually work out how much it might cost to get to him so he migth get a charge to deploy or he migth decide its too much and not do it

Is your house freehold? Our whole area had FTTP installed, it's like literally a few meters away from me, but after a lot of digging I found out, because I am leasehold, I needed to get the freeholder to contact Openreach to sign a wayleave to allow the final install if I was to ever want it. Openreach did say it's free if the area is in the rollout area, but looks like it's up to the freeholders to contact them first at the moment.

How or why would OR know that? They could ask the land registry, but at, I believe £3 for each one, it could be an expensive exercise. Why would FTTP be different to ordinary phone? gas? electricity? They are installed without wayleaves.

I have no idea, just what Openreach told me after looking into it further. Seems like any leasehold buildings have issues for some reason, big or small.

This is the email I got from them after they looked into it:

"I can see that there is fibre in your area, I have requested that a record be built for us to contact the freeholder to install FTTP (Fibre to the premises)

To be able to proceed we need permission from the freeholder and a wayleave to be signed.

Once the full record has been created, we will be able to send a wayleave to get signed and authority to send for survey.

As things move forward, we will continue to monitor the progress.

Kind regards "

I also don't rent, I'm the owner and it's a flat with own front door, no communal entrance. I guess because the freeholder has control of the exterier of the building and parking bays around the area etc, they need their permission, but why the existing rules don't allow it, I don't know. I expect because it's new equipment and if they have to do work close to the building, it's technically private land and I'm not the landowner.

Down below it says:

"We do have some legal powers under the Electronics Communication Code that mean we can gain consent via the court to install apparatus on your land. But we don’t want to use these unless we absolutely have to, and we will make best endeavours to explore all alternative options available to us."

"Openreach requires the permission of the leaseholder/landlord/managing agent to install their equipment for the final connection."

It's [censored] annoying though knowing a guy 5 metres from me has full fibre. Thankfully my freeholder seems keen to get it sorted though.

I'm pretty sure gas etc all have wayleaves when the building is first erected.

In reply to a post by MHC:

How or why would OR know that? They could ask the land registry, but at, I believe £3 for each one, it could be an expensive exercise. Why would FTTP be different to ordinary phone? gas? electricity? They are installed without wayleaves.

https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/obtaining...

When do we need a wayleave?
We need to have a wayleave agreement in place to install or repair Openreach equipment on private land where it provides service to people who aren’t the legal owner of the land. For example, providing services to a tenant.

Depends on the property, if theres multiple units, then yes OR would have needed a wayleave, if its a single unit, no.

Question, are wayleaves permanent ?

edit:
Ahh, just re-read your post, candlerb is right, typically outside stuff is covered on the maintenance fees, and that would include telecom/water/electric infrastructures

Edited by Taras (Sat 25-Jul-20 09:49:45)

In reply to a post by scott88c:

I also don't rent, I'm the owner and it's a flat with own front door, no communal entrance.
...
Thankfully my freeholder seems keen to get it sorted though.

That's good. As long as your freeholder is not withholding permission, you should be fine.

The freeholder has responsibility for the overall exterior fabric. You may think that Openreach will be drilling just through "your" wall, but it's shared.

Suppose you lived in the upstairs flat, and a cable had to be attached to the outside of the wall, but the downstairs flat owner objected to an unsightly cable going past their window. The downstairs flat owner doesn't have a veto on what goes on "their" part of the wall. It's the freehold owner that has overall responsibility.

Stage 1 usually means all good to go

KCI2 Assure is usually the indicator that a further survey is expected.