General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 20:49:28
Print Post

FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[link to this post]
 
Hey all,

We just have had our new full fibre (FTTP/FTTH – I will call it FTTP) connection installed on 22nd June 2020. The ISP is Vodafone Gigafast and we went for 900Mbps package.

We live in Milton Keynes.

We are a BT customer for over a decade and never had an issue with them. We are still with BT and the package is Infinity 2 (FTTC) so we still have not cancelled with BT just yet as we are still within 14 days cooling period with Vodafone. So, if we are not happy with Vodafone then we will cancel with them and stay with BT for a little longer until their BT FTTP becomes available in my area, or even Hyperoptic.

The main reason why we wanted to switch to FTTP from FTTC are because of faster upload speed and lower latency ping. I am already aware that there will not be a huge difference in ping latency when switching from FTTC to FTTP.

With our BT Infinity 2, we always get around 74Mbps download and around 15Mbps upload speed with consistent 9ms ping latency via speedtest.net by Ookla with the closest server selected (Clouvider Limited – Enfield) over wired and wireless connection (2.4GHz and 5GHz). Also, we have been using third-party router (currently ASUS RT-AC86U) connected to BT Openreach modem (Huawei HG612). On Rocket League, average ping is 16ms and on Rainbow Six Siege is around 9ms. Ping to bbc.co.uk is always 9ms.

With our Vodafone Gigafast 900Mbps, we get around 750Mbps download and 920Mbps upload speeds with the lowest ping of 15ms over wired connection to my high-end PC via speedtest.net with closest server selected (Vodafone UK - Manchester). This is not what I was expecting (ping latency) as I was expecting around 3-5ms ping latency. We have also tested on Vodafone’s supplied router and ASUS router, both shows same result. Rocket League average ping is 24ms and around 20ms on Rainbow Six Siege. Ping to bbc.co.uk is 14ms on average.

The weird thing is that the external IP address City/Region with Vodafone is showing Manchester whereas BT is showing Milton Keynes. I live in Milton Keynes and Manchester is 130 miles away from me. Whenever I go onto speedtest.net Ookla, it shows that the closest server is Vodafone UK - Manchester – 2 miles, but I’m in Milton Keynes? Whereas on BT, it shows that the closest server is Clouvider Limited – Enfield – 40 miles which is normal.

My friend who is also with Vodafone Gigafast for about a year and also lives in Milton Keynes (10 minutes drive from my house), he gets around 5ms ping and his external IP address City/Region shows Milton Keynes via speedtest.net Ookla with the closest server selected as Vodafone UK – Watford – 32 miles, which is normal.

I think Vodafone’s routing system is messed up and that they incorrectly assigned my IP address really far away from where I live which causes high pings. Is Vodafone able to change my IP address to Milton Keynes area? What can I do?

The CityFibre cabinet is only 80 metres away from my house so that is not the problem.

I have reset ONT as well as Vodafone Router and ASUS router – no change.

I have contacted Vodafone about this, and they told me that their dedicated tech team will be monitoring my line for the next 72 hours. I have requested to change my IP address to Milton Keynes as well, but still need to wait 3 days.

Any ideas?
Standard User max1486
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 20:58:33
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
So in regards to your IP address saying Manchester over Milton Keynes, this is irrelevant. IP's very often will have the wrong geolocation on them as this data is populated by 3rd party companies, this doesn't mean your internet is routing all the way up to Manchester rather than Milton Keynes.

The latency from FTTC to FTTP is generally 5-8ms of a difference, however this can be based on numerous different things. Can you please run a traceroute using command prompt to bbc.co.uk and then post a result? This will let us see if your internet is routing down to London properly or if it's going somewhere else, in which case it may be a proper fault.

Speedtest.net determining your location is also somehting that can be ignored, as it does it off your geolocation which by nature can be wrong. (Example being I'm in Scotland, yet I'm apparently in London according to Zen).
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 21:15:08
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: max1486] [link to this post]
 
In reference to imgur.com/fnJPjF0:
tracert bbc.co.uk


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User max1486
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 21:22:26
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
So it looks like they actually are routing you up to Manchester, unfortunately I couldn't confirm if this is normal activity or not unless your friend can also share a traceroute with us. It's all based on where the VM core routers are, as your traffic needs to route through them before it goes anywhere else.
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 21:25:51
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: max1486] [link to this post]
 
I will ask my friend to do the tracert as he is busy at the moment.

Thank you though.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 26-Jun-20 22:21:32
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by OfficialUmey:
I have reset ONT as well as Vodafone Router and ASUS router – no change.


How have you connected the vodafone router and the asus router?
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 26-Jun-20 22:30:59
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: max1486] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by max1486:
The latency from FTTC to FTTP is generally 5-8ms of a difference, however this can be based on numerous different things.


It's usually much lower of a difference.

In examples I've seen (with the same routing) it's around 2-3ms difference at most.

There being a 5-8ms difference would suggest FTTC is adding that much latency.
There are FTTC connections with 5ms pings to bbc.co.uk so that's impossible.

Some ISP's will have different routing for FTTP and FTTC traffic which can make the difference between the 2 more emphasised.
Nobody should be anticipating a 5-8ms improvement in latency when switching from FTTC to FTTP though or they are likely to be very disappointed.
Standard User max1486
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 22:46:55
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Of course as I said it depends on the conditions, my personal experience was a 5ms difference with the exact same ISP with no routing difference whatsoever. (BT, 23ms to 18ms, FTTC cable distance was super far, only ever got 20Mbps tops on FTTC).

Edited by max1486 (Fri 26-Jun-20 22:50:04)

Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Fri 26-Jun-20 22:52:17
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
Currently, my ASUS router is connected directly to the ONT via Cat6 ethernet cable.

What I meant about resetting both ASUS router and Vodafone router, is that I have tested on both of them. Both still show the same results.
Standard User epyon
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 27-Jun-20 15:38:36
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
Test closest to where you are physically, who cares where the IP says as long as its in the same country.

Well....my gigafast IP thinks i'm part of vodafone india (while being in aberdeen) so at least you don't have that headache.

Edited by epyon (Sat 27-Jun-20 15:38:57)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 27-Jun-20 16:06:42
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: max1486] [link to this post]
 
FTTC sync speed is not a reliable indicator

e.g. 20 Mbps sync here and pinging our servers over an IDNet connection at 9ms

8 to 8.5ms to the first hop.

The real variable for FTTC is the depth of interleaving applied (i.e. error correction).

Not expecting any decrease when FTTP rolls around, maybe 1ms.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Sat 27-Jun-20 16:11:12
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
I've tested the closest one to where I physically live.

Closest server is Vodafone UK - Watford and still showing 15ms.

If I manually change the server to Vodafone UK - Manchester, I get 8-9ms ping.

I'm in Milton Keynes.


I've been comparing BT and Vodafone connections on Rocket League.

BT connected to ASUS RT-AC68U. Wired to PS4 only.

Vodafone connected to ASUS RT-AC86U. Wired to PC only.

Rocket League supports cross-platform, so I created a private match on PC and invited myself to my PS4. One of the game shows that PS4 (BT) gets around 12ms whilst PC (Vodafone) gets around 20ms. They're on the same game server as well.



What's the average ping you're getting at the moment?
Standard User AyeUp
(newbie) Sat 27-Jun-20 17:08:59
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
The difference in pings between both providers is negligable and even then online gaming has balancing measures in place so those with the lowest ping are not at a competitive advantage to those with higher pings. Vodafone routes much of its traffic through Manchester because they have a large office there (former C&W building).

I'm getting FTTP installed next month, I'm not expecting a massive change in latency, if any at all .

Regards


JM
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 27-Jun-20 18:36:18
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
They are routing your line via Manchester.


So for the majority of connections you make are going from Milton Keynes to Manchester, then to London (then onwards to the test of the world if not hosted in London.

Your friend with the lower ping is being routed direct to London.

So you have the added latency of all your traffic going up to Manchester and back down to London.
There's isn't a whole lot hosted in Manchester.

Post the results of a tracert to a couple addresses, it might show in the 1st couple hops where the traffic is going.

Get your friend to do the same if possible.

Ideally Vodafone get the routing changed as going via Manchester makes no sense.
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-20 01:33:23
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
You're totally right. I knew it.

Why would Vodafone route my line to Manchester though? Is this a rare case or?

My friend will do the trace route tomorrow afternoon, so I will share it with you all on here. I'm pretty sure his line is routed to London because his pings on online games are identical to my BT. My BT line is definitely routed to London.

Also, I will give a call to Vodafone Technical Team again and ask to be transferred to someone who knows what I am talking about (hopefully).


As requested, here are the results of tracert (CoD Warzone on PS4). I've tested on 2 different UK servers on the same game. I've also used BT connection on 2nd ASUS router for comparison, then did the tracert on 2nd PC connected to BT. All on wired connection only.


Warzone Server 1 on Vodafone: https://i.imgur.com/rOSJ3Vk.png

Warzone Server 1 on BT: https://i.imgur.com/jhO7QgH.png

Warzone Server 2 on Vodafone: https://i.imgur.com/OfBJPel.png

Warzone Server 2 on BT: https://i.imgur.com/hiebcFT.png

For those wondering how I got the IP addresses of Warzone's servers, I use a third-party software from PC to 'sniff' any IP addresses including game servers on PS4.
Standard User max1486
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-20 15:01:54
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
I wouldn't say it's rare, just unfortunate. I'd say it's incredibly unlikely the people on the phone will be able to help unless they can raise directly to their network admin team. I wish you luck though!
Standard User OfficialUmey
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-20 18:07:52
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
Hi all again,

Some of you have asked me to share the results of my friend's tracert. We have used the exact same IP addresses. It appears that his (lets call him Brad) line is being routed to Slough which is only 20 miles away from London whereas my line is being routed to Manchester. This explains why he gets much lower pings on online video games whereas mine is almost doubled.

We both live in Milton Keynes and we're 10 minutes drive away from each other.


The results:

Brad's tracert 151.101.0.81 (bbc.co.uk): https://i.imgur.com/3FLCKOs.jpg

My tracert 151.101.0.81 (bbc.co.uk): https://i.imgur.com/aQUJ6Gf.jpg

-

Brad's tracert 8.8.8.8 (dns.google): https://i.imgur.com/q48gyXl.jpg

My tracert 8.8.8.8 (dns.google): https://i.imgur.com/DJZigPh.jpg

-

Brad's tracert 78.129.201.32 (CoD Warzone): https://i.imgur.com/kj1z9zh.jpg

My tracert 78.129.201.32 (CoD Warzone): https://i.imgur.com/yivoPbL.jpg


Contacted Vodafone today to be told that their 3rd line support team is only open on Monday - Friday. They gave me a reference number so I can call directly to 3rd line team without having to explain everything again tomorrow Monday.

Also, I want to say thank you all for your posts smile
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Tue 30-Jun-20 09:01:10
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
It is odd that you seem to be being routed via Manchester. But BT customers are routed via London, wherever they live. So those in the north like me don’t get good pings.

Icaras
Standard User Adrianuk
(learned) Sun 22-Nov-20 15:56:35
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: OfficialUmey] [link to this post]
 
Did you ever get this sorted out? My Gigafast line (also in MK) has started routing up to Manchester as well -

% traceroute -I -a fastmail.com 
traceroute: Warning: fastmail.com has multiple addresses; using 66.111.4.147
traceroute to fastmail.com (66.111.4.147), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  [AS0] vodafone (192.168.1.254)  3.700 ms  2.587 ms  2.017 ms
 2  [AS5378] 84.65.128.1 (84.65.128.1)  11.727 ms  10.573 ms  11.551 ms
 3  [AS1273] 63.130.104.202 (63.130.104.202)  11.841 ms  11.807 ms  11.961 ms
 4  [AS1273] ae5-100-xcr1.man.cw.net (195.89.96.113)  22.933 ms  10.926 ms  11.486 ms
 5  [AS1273] ae1-ucr1.bsh.cw.net (195.2.27.193)  17.791 ms  18.685 ms  18.373 ms
 6  [AS1273] ae20-xcr1.lnd.cw.net (195.2.27.190)  16.798 ms  16.207 ms  17.633 ms
 7  [AS1273] ae3-xcr2.lsw.cw.net (195.2.28.182)  17.582 ms  18.077 ms  17.583 ms
 8  [AS1273] so-4-0-0-zar1.fri.cw.net (195.2.2.118)  17.634 ms  16.654 ms  17.687 ms
 9  [AS0] ae11.mpr1.lhr1.uk.zip.zayo.com (64.125.27.49)  18.144 ms  18.317 ms  17.492 ms
10  [AS0] ae10.mpr2.lhr2.uk.zip.zayo.com (64.125.31.194)  17.845 ms  18.358 ms  17.658 ms
11  * * *
12  * * *
13  [AS0] ae20.mpr2.ewr1.us.zip.zayo.com (64.125.26.143)  93.567 ms  86.924 ms  84.169 ms
14  [AS0] ae3.mpr2.ewr1.us.zip.zayo.com (64.125.31.238)  84.921 ms  84.681 ms  86.120 ms
15  [AS0] 208.184.34.238.ipyx-076763-900-zyo.zip.zayo.com (208.184.34.238)  86.148 ms  88.958 ms  86.647 ms
16  [AS11403] 199.83.60.138.static.nyinternet.net (199.83.60.138)  88.435 ms  85.663 ms  86.502 ms
17  [AS11403] www.fastmail.com (66.111.4.147)  84.557 ms  85.157 ms  85.272 ms

A trace route to 1.1.1.1 appears to show the routing going up to Manchester, down to London and then across to France instead of just going straight to London and then hitting Cloudflare's London datacenter!

% traceroute -I -a 1.1.1.1     
traceroute to 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  [AS0] vodafone (192.168.1.254)  3.258 ms  2.183 ms  2.336 ms
 2  [AS5378] 84.65.128.1 (84.65.128.1)  12.092 ms  10.716 ms  11.641 ms
 3  [AS1273] 63.130.104.202 (63.130.104.202)  12.318 ms  12.144 ms  12.438 ms
 4  [AS1273] ae5-100-xcr1.man.cw.net (195.89.96.113)  13.287 ms  10.484 ms  14.396 ms
 5  [AS1273] ae0-ucr1.mcr.cw.net (195.2.28.70)  12.429 ms  13.092 ms  11.819 ms
 6  [AS1273] ae16-xcr1.lnt.cw.net (195.2.27.165)  17.439 ms  19.540 ms  18.495 ms
 7  [AS2914] ae-20.r02.londen03.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.66.45)  18.703 ms  17.683 ms  18.677 ms
 8  [AS2914] ae-11.r21.londen12.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.85)  19.603 ms  17.035 ms  18.772 ms
 9  [AS2914] ae-6.r21.parsfr04.fr.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.25)  28.494 ms  28.426 ms  28.255 ms
10  [AS2914] ae-5.r03.parsfr02.fr.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.2.207)  26.447 ms  26.756 ms  26.416 ms
11  [AS2914] 185.84.18.174 (185.84.18.174)  27.010 ms  26.663 ms  42.625 ms
12  [AS198949] one.one.one.one (1.1.1.1)  26.285 ms  26.953 ms  26.583 ms


Cant be sure when this started happening but can't be more than a few weeks. I tried restarting the ONT and router but no change...

Edited by Adrianuk (Sun 22-Nov-20 15:57:57)

Standard User aidanh
(newbie) Sun 22-Nov-20 16:30:07
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: Adrianuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Adrianuk:
A trace route to 1.1.1.1 appears to show the routing going up to Manchester, down to London and then across to France instead of just going straight to London and then hitting Cloudflare's London datacenter!


I'd be very careful about assuming that 1.1.1.1 is supposed to be routed through London. Usually that's the case but sometimes Cloudflare re-routes entire data centres (due to outages or for maintenance). The whole of Cloudflare's UK data centres were re-routed through Amsterdam the other day and traceroutes to 1.1.1.1 on BT are still showing up as routed via Amsterdam for me even though Cloudflare's UK data centres are now operational again.

traceroute to 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 OpenWrt.lan (192.168.0.254) 0.219 ms 0.227 ms 0.244 ms
2 172.16.16.87 (172.16.16.87) 1.543 ms 1.552 ms 1.578 ms
3 * * *
4 31.55.186.184 (31.55.186.184) 6.461 ms 6.486 ms 6.498 ms
5 core4-hu0-8-0-3.faraday.ukcore.bt.net (213.121.192.68) 6.467 ms 6.913 ms 6.973 ms
6 62.6.201.144 (62.6.201.144) 6.981 ms 6.391 ms 6.395 ms
7 166-49-209-132.gia.bt.net (166.49.209.132) 6.046 ms 6.054 ms 6.140 ms
8 t2c3-et-7-3-0.nl-ams2.gia.bt.net (166.49.195.174) 11.155 ms 11.168 ms 11.200 ms
9 * * *
10 one.one.one.one (1.1.1.1) 12.425 ms 12.370 ms 13.106 ms
Standard User Adrianuk
(learned) Sun 22-Nov-20 17:07:52
Print Post

Re: FTTP/FTTH Vodafone Gigafast High Ping


[re: aidanh] [link to this post]
 
Ah, thanks for that, I'll keep an eye on it over the next few days - though that only accounts for the hop from London to France, I'm still generally detouring up to Manchester for some reason.

Edited by Adrianuk (Sun 22-Nov-20 17:08:07)

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to