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Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 11:40:38
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Would a new line improve my speed?


[link to this post]
 
I'm coming up for end of contract in the next 2 months with EE FTTC. I was looking into switching for the new provider deals and noticed Vodapone will install a new line to my address. Is there any chance this will improve my speeds? I'm supposed to up to 35mbps but only see 20mbps sync now (I got 30 back when FTTC was first deployed 7 years ago). I'm not fussed losing the land line number so wondered if taking the new line then cancelling the old service in a months' time would help? I'm not expecting miracles but getting closer to 30mbps would really help with 2 of us working from home + 2 kids.

I'm guessing its a bit of gamble as they would try and reuse any old lines they can find.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 01-Jul-20 11:58:22
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
A new supplier is unlikely to make any significant difference as it is the underlying length/quality of your line that defines the sync speed rather than the supplier.

A new line may make a difference but Openreach would normally just use a spare pair in the current line which will probably have the same characteristics as the existing pair.

There is a remote possibility you could be lucky but likelihood is you will get similar or even possibly worse.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 01-Jul-20 12:38:04
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Cross talk from other fttc users over time on your cab will have reduced that speed. Also have you done a master socket test, to see if its actually internal to your home network ?


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Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 12:44:39
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
The master socket was replaced with one of the newer dual socket ones by an openreach engineer when we moved in and ordered FTTC (The cabinet was activated in the area one week after we moved in). There are no extensions. I've always been nervous of unplugging the router too often and causing me to be banded any lower but I guess I can try it if you think the faceplate could have failed in 7 years?
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 12:46:38
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - that was kind of my assumption but thought i'd check. It's annoying to be told you can get 35mbps when you can barely make 60% of that.
Standard User _SimonLH_
(learned) Wed 01-Jul-20 13:02:37
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
You might want to have a look this thread

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/4623369...
Probably around £150 to do
Was thinking of having this done myself, New cable, shorter length to Master Socket and hopefully improve speeds. Looking at neighbours on same side as me can get faster, only via postcode checker. I’ve got G Fast and upload speed has deteriorated a bit only about 23-24mb was around 31-34mb mark.

Edited by _SimonLH_ (Wed 01-Jul-20 17:19:32)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 01-Jul-20 13:15:45
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
You are sure that 35 Meg is not the point of sale average for the 40/10 product but the specific estimate for your line. Mentioning this as the 'up to' term went away a couple of years ago.

Line estimates are usually a range of speeds.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 14:10:37
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: _SimonLH_] [link to this post]
 
Sorry Simon the link hasn't worked. As I mentioned in a previous reply I have a newish master socket that is a very short distance to my router. I had the socket moved when the new one was put in.
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 14:18:29
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Andrew,

The range is 20 to 35 based on this.

BT are only quoting a minimum of 14mbps for switching but vodaphone are promising 20mbps on the new line so at least I know I'm getting no worse if I take the new line.

Phil

Here is my speedtest results: Here

Edited by cheesemp (Wed 01-Jul-20 14:21:26)

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-Jul-20 14:22:03
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
https://www.tandyonline.com/electronics/telecoms-dsl... are very good dsl shortern cable from openreach master socket to your dsl router

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-Jul-20 14:24:07
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheesemp:
Andrew,

The range is 20 to 35 based on this.

BT are only quoting a minimum of 14mbps for switching but vodaphone are promising 20mbps on the new line so at least I know I'm getting no worse if I take the new line.

Phil

Here is my speedtest results: Here


Your dsl router is connected at 22Meg sync - what are your router full stats?

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:08:23
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
The "guarantee" from Vodaphone is just that if they don't get that speed they will let you out of the contract. The actual sync speed you get will likely be the same whether it is BT or Vodaphone - there isn't that much an ISP can do to influence your sync speed, what they can do is influence the amount of bandwidth through their network to avoid contention and I suspect BT may be better on that than Vodaphone are.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:12:13
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Vodafone may promise, but what you need to know is what will they do if the promise is not met...

Chances are speeds will be the same, but could be worse.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:14:12
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
The EE smarthub I'm using is rebadged BT smarthub (With slightly different internal webpage). All it gives me is Downstream 20.00mbps and Upstream 6.06mbps. Not seen a way of getting more stats out of it. I was getting 22mbps about 3 or 4 months ago before the lock down.
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:17:15
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Ian and Andrew. I was afraid that would be the case, but I guess this confirms it. When you're on 20mbps, an extra 5 seems tempting!
Standard User gary333
(committed) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:27:17
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
I think it might just be your line.

My last property had on the BT checker:
High = 30.2 / Low = 18.0. Actual sync speed ranged from: 19.8 - 20.2
Late 1970's line on busy ECI cabinet line length approx. 980m

My current property (just around the corner:
High = 34.4 / Low = 22.0. Actual sync is 39.0 - 39.4
Mid 1990's line on new Huawei cabinet line length approx. 1060m
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:27:39
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
On the Hub <Home>, <Advanced Settings., <Technical Log>, <Information> That should take you to a page where max rates, attenuation, noise margins and other details are shown.

This is from a BT Consumer Hub, so should not be too different for you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:33:12
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Well spotted MHC. That interface is dire and I'm use to dealing with interfaces. Stats are: stats
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:34:19
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Yes that could well be the case. 1970s estate. It is Huawei cabinet but has 500+ properties on it.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:36:33
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Huawei should try target SNR 3dB but can't known if your FTTC already got G.INP enabled?

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:38:15
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
9.5dB Margin is a problem for you. 26Mbps attainable.

Do the following:

Power off your hub. Wait a couple of minutes and disconnect from the line.

Disconnect all phones.

Wait 30 minutes and power up the hub - and leave for another five minutes

Plug in the line connection to the hub, and again wait for 5 minutes.

Then check your line stats again.


That should at least try to get you back to 6dB and then over time it might work down to 5, 4, 3 dB.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

Edited by MHC (Wed 01-Jul-20 15:52:22)

Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:47:07
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Not sure if that will do anything, I think the line has been banded at 20Mbps, that would explain the high SNRM.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:52:49
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Your line has been banded (capped) at 20Mb by the DLM.

You should get nearer 25Mb.

A change of ISP would likely remove the banding.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 01-Jul-20 15:53:21)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 01-Jul-20 15:55:36
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
It could well be banded, but it may be an exact sync.

Trying a fix is not to arduous - if it fixes it fine, if not, the battle getting banding removed can be tortuous but the next stage.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 16:04:04
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Can't hurt but i'll have to try it later when my wife's not working. I'll be moving ISP whatever happens in the next couple of months (not missing the switching cashbacks) so I guess that will remove the banding. At least Vodafone give a discount if I can't hit 25mbps (And it not like upstream bandwidth is a big issue at sub 25mbps).
Standard User _SimonLH_
(learned) Wed 01-Jul-20 17:20:39
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Sorry didn’t check if link was there post edited
Here’s the link
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/4623369...
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Wed 01-Jul-20 17:23:53
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: _SimonLH_] [link to this post]
 
I'm ducts not pole i'm afraid but thanks for the link. I know I'm near the end of the lines when it comes to the 1970's estate, I'm in (although I'm far from the being the furthest).
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 02-Jul-20 11:59:33
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
And what are the current line stats? Same as before or changed significantly?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Thu 02-Jul-20 15:47:06
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Sorry we didn't manage to get the kids down early enough for me to test last night. I will aim to do it tonight. I must time it careful as 99% of our TV comes from broadband. TV signal is as troublesome as 4g is.
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Fri 03-Jul-20 11:29:04
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
I'm not sure. I signed up to TalkTalk FTTC on a 24 month contract in February when I was promised by live support chat that they would send an Openreach engineer to install a new line.

I had a similar dilemma about line length. Basically my copper line intrusion point travels around 10 meters around my passage to the master socket. I wanted a shortened line.

But when the BT Openreach engineer came he refused to install a new line saying that, that extra 10 meters worth of copper inside my flat will not make a difference at all to my speeds. He said he can do it but would charge me £150 but tried to assure me it isn't worth the cost as it will not make a difference at all.

I kinda felt betrayed at that time because TalkTalk said it will be a free new line on a 24 month contract.

But anyway, the Openreach engineer installed a new pre-built filtered master socket 2019 BT Openreach Telephone Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL Faceplate MK4. That way I no longer need a separate micro filter.

He told me estimated speeds as shown on his device would be between 70Mbps-83Mbps. It turned out to be true, I indeed am syncing at 80 Mbps and 20 Mbps in my router settings. So I am not sure if cutting an extra 5-10 meters of copper inside the property will really make a whole lot of difference when overall it is about the length of the copper cable from cabinet to your home.

My overall copper length is about 320 meters from cabinet to my flat. So theoretically whether it was 310 meters or 330 meters give or take, it doesn't seem like an extra 10 meters of copper would make a difference. So a new telephone line won't make a difference unless your existing line in your flat has some fault of some sort.

The difference however, is more significant when you come from ADSL to VDSL. For example when I had an EO Line until October 2019 when I finally got upgraded to FTTC, I had a line length of 1000+ meters worth of copper to the exchange. With the new FTTC cabinet that line length is now slashed to over 650+ meters less. I suppose the transition between ADSL on EO Line vs FTTC makes a far greater overall difference to speed and reliability than having a new telephone line however shorter it may be inside your home.
Standard User bedrock
(member) Fri 03-Jul-20 13:04:33
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: cheesemp] [link to this post]
 
Looks like the Vodafone discount is going, going, gone.
Shame, I used to have two x Vodafone FTTC lines for exactly this reason, knowing both would sync well under the 25mbps I could chaim the additional 15% discount.

BT Ultrafast Fibre 2
Standard User cheesemp
(newbie) Fri 31-Jul-20 12:45:49
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Re: Would a new line improve my speed?


[re: bedrock] [link to this post]
 
Wanted to provide an update. I just never had time to bring the connection down to try and force a resync. I switched to Vodafone just over a week ago and the sync has gone from 20mbps to 28.9mbps (and seems stable - it even went up from the initial 24mbps). Really happy as that's a near 50% jump in speeds which has made an enormous difference (It's also vaguely close to the up to 36mbps I'm always offered).

I definitely signed up while the 25mbps minimum applied so I better get it should the situation deteriorate in the future, however.

Glad I never took the second line though as work want me back in! Thanks for all the advice.
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