Would you accept this FTTP external cable finish?

Would you accept this standard of external cable finish?

Images

Note that the hole originally had an old disconnected ISDN cable in it, there was also an ISDN 2e panel inside which I mentioned to the engineer he could remove if it made things easier for him, which he said it would.

The external hole originally had clear sealant in it, which you can just see the remains of in the photo. The sealant was done by BT when they installed the ISDN cable.

The engineer fitted the Openreach Customer Service Panel, which he said something about it "tidying things up", however I don't know what it tidies, it is also very loose on one side.

Edited by deleted (Sun 05-Jul-20 20:14:47)

Post deleted by jennykins

To be honest I'm not sure if the bend radius is a bit tight on the internal cable to the ONT also?

https://postimg.cc/rzxSRHxP

Is it actually Openreach doing these jobs, or a contractor?

This was definitely Openreach (Openreach van, engineer etc.)

Should mention that it's working fine 300+ down 50+ up.

Reason I didn't mention it before the engineer left was that I was bit distracted trying to get it to work (ended up had to wait 1.5 hours because it's a regrade) and then I only gave it a sidelong glance out of the front door when the engineer left, saw the grey CSP box, and thought that would be covering everything up. i didn't see that the cable was curving up and around the box and into the hole, until I went out later in the day.

That's shockingly poor. If i were you i would be phoning the ISP and complaining about the state it's been left in. What happened to people taking pride in their work?

I clicked on the images in your post and immediately my security software popped up and said that the images were a malicious link and blocked them.
I do not know if they are or not but be careful folk!

Weird, I uploaded them to postimage.org, which was a recommendation on another thread.

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I clicked on the images in your post and immediately my security software popped up and said that the images were a malicious link and blocked them.
I do not know if they are or not but be careful folk!

They aren't.

I am not sure what fibre Openreach use, but bend insensitive fibre is comon place and cheap theses days. See link below for a 1m SC to SC APC simplex patch lead. Thats the sort of thing compatible with Openreaches GPON network. Scroll down and read the bit about bend insensitivity. If Openreach are not using bend insensitive fibre they are morons.

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/41918.html

People have this notion that fibre is way more delicate than it actually is.

My install looks very similar.

Both fibre cables are pinned to the wall when a better, more hidden route was possible.

My customer side fibre cable was left without sealant. Why! Makes no sense. At least he tried to hide it under the old style copper housing. Although he just missed the trunking.

I suppose there is no default training on placement as customers want the fibre socket elsewhere. I get that but there is no excuse for not sealing a drilled hole. Customers don’t want water or insects getting in,

That looks terrible, even the CSP isn't level. It wants the CSP moving up so it covers the fibre entry point, but there probably isn't enough slack on the various cables for that.

In reply to a post by oldskool:

My install looks very similar.
Customers don’t want water or insects getting in,

True but given the price of sealant and the time it takes to apply, I'd be more inclined to just get a gun out and apply some. Getting OR back in these days would cost far more in time spent on phones etc than the actual cost of the sealant.

In reply to a post by 69bertie:

In reply to a post by oldskool:

My install looks very similar.
Customers don’t want water or insects getting in,

True but given the price of sealant and the time it takes to apply, I'd be more inclined to just get a gun out and apply some. Getting OR back in these days would cost far more in time spent on phones etc than the actual cost of the sealant.

Totally agree. I am apprehensive simply because we are told to not interfere with their cabling at all. Ive heard/read this a few times.

Edited by oldskool (Mon 06-Jul-20 15:32:31)

Putting some sealant on your own wall doesn't fall under that category.

The wiring is OpenReach's but the wall is definitely yours.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Jul-20 15:49:15)

Was the grey plastic conduit below the CSP always floating like that?

This looks like a right amateur mess tbh. However, if there is no consequence for companies doing such a shoddy job then it'll carry on. It's hard to think someone looked back at this rough mess and thought "yep, that looks fine". If this is on a visible part of the front of the house I'd be getting them out to make it look presentable.

Looks a right mess.

I had two BT Techs here a few weeks back replacing a drop wire. First of all one asked if he could drill the wall to fit an eye-bolt for safety - no issue from me. Then when finished he removed the bolt and even filled the hole with brown mastic! That is how it should be - although he could have left the eye-bolt as I would use it too

The eyebolt is reusable, you only get issued 2 .....

In reply to a post by jennykins:

Would you accept this standard of external cable finish?

Sadly no I wouldn't.

Having said that your broadband is working fine so I would get some silicone into the mess he left on the wall and job done.

I know, but had it been left I would not have complained. They did an excellent job between them - and their line manager knows that too!

Also, 10 days later one of them saw me in Sainsbury's and asked if it was still OK and the problem solved!

For a balanced reply I would have liked to have seen the wall before the fttp was installed so I could proportion blame between the latest engineer and previous engineers.

Overall it could have been done a lot better, maybe the copper joint could have remained separate from the CSP which would have given flexibility on location for CSP removing the need for that ugly piece of fibre.

Are the new grey CSP boxes not designed to be able to fit on the square capping? Why would you leave a massive gap?

I think your original install was pretty poor as well as the connector bend cover thing is floating halfway up the wall.

Edited by jpm (Mon 06-Jul-20 21:51:02)

In reply to a post by jpm:

Are the new grey CSP boxes not designed to be able to fit on the square capping? Why would you leave a massive gap?

I think your original install was pretty poor as well as the connector bend cover thing is floating halfway up the wall.

I think your reply should have been directed at the OP

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

I am not sure what fibre Openreach use, but bend insensitive fibre is comon place and cheap theses days. See link below for a 1m SC to SC APC simplex patch lead. Thats the sort of thing compatible with Openreaches GPON network. Scroll down and read the bit about bend insensitivity. If Openreach are not using bend insensitive fibre they are morons.

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/41918.html

People have this notion that fibre is way more delicate than it actually is.

I was told in my FTTP training that it didn’t matter about bends or anything like that with the cable they’re using. But I never actually did an install myself. Zarjaz can confirm if that’s right or if my training was incorrect.

Your training was incorrect.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Your training was incorrect.

Interesting! Thanks. It was only last year too.

He had us twist up the wire, whack it with hammers and all sorts. Then we demonstrated that the amount of light going through was still the same. I never did an install though anyway and no longer work for OR.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jul-20 10:31:29)

In reply to a post by Icaras:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Your training was incorrect.

Interesting! Thanks. It was only last year too.

He had us twist up the wire, whack it with hammers and all sorts. Then we demonstrated that the amount of light going through was still the same. I never did an install though anyway and no longer work for OR.

I have seen Zarjaz state here several times that there is a recommended minimum bend radius although that maybe best practice rather than anything else with current fibre cable standards.

Edit: If there is still a mininum bend radius and engineers (Openreach or contractors) are not been made aware of that then that is worrying.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jul-20 10:45:04)

+1

Could it be that ex-Kelly 'Engineers' are being employed by Openreach hence the increased (?) reports of shoddy FTTP installs?

Or pressure of workload ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Or pressure of workload ?

Contractors back working on my install today and when talking to them asked "have you been isolating at home or did you work"

He replied he hasn't had a day off throughout COVID-19 and worked every day.

WOW kudos to them.

They weren’t the only ones ....

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

They weren’t the only ones ....

Thank you for you're services mate.

Thanks to you (and many more) essential workers NHS staff etc were kept online.

I was told by a friend in Openreach that contractors still aren’t doing FTTP installed and it is direct labour only.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I was told by a friend in Openreach that contractors still aren’t doing FTTP installed and it is direct labour only.

Depends on what you guy's call direct labour only.

Had a team at mine again today, one guy was splicing very near my house while others were messing about in joint boxes / culverts down the village a mile away. "Is that labour only"

4 vans in total with around 8 to 10 blokes.

Total Fibre was the name of the contractors, Guy from Middlesbrough doing the splicing and checking for light and the others were from Wakefield and Penistone Nr Barnsley.

Edited by busterboy (Tue 07-Jul-20 23:17:09)

I think what is being said, is that actual installs, the final drop, lead in, and ONT, is being done by Openreach .... unless this is on new build (unoccupied) estates, which might be done be either/or.

Contractors are working on provision of fibre network too, fitting and lightening up the nodes in the network.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Your training was incorrect.

If Openreach are using bend insensitive fibre (and they would be morons not to) then none of the bends in the photograph of this install are anywhere near being of concern.

You can get 5mm bend radius fibre now. That means you can coil it around your fingers and it will still work just fine. That sort of fibre would "kink" if you took it beyond 5mm and remember they said bends where fine, not that kinks where fine; big difference.

As such the training was likely correct, fibre is no where near as sensitive as it was and even back then it was a lot less sensitive than some people make out.

Yes but 5mm bend radius fibre has been a thing for several years now. I suggest you try bending a kevlar reinforced fibre cable tighter than an 5mm bend radius. It is actually quite difficult and second it tends to kink first, at which point it is no longer a bend.

If you use bend insensitive fibre as long as you don't kink it then you need no worry about bends.

There is an awful lot of rubbish about fibre sensitivity to bends out there.

Problem with mastic or similar is that it will fail in the not too distant future. It might take 10 years, but the mortar joint (hopefully they didn't drill into the brick in which case it was a naff job) would last a lot longer.

Its OFS Ez Bend Fibre, you can tie it in knots or staple it to walls and itll be fine, it is G657 B3 rated for bend insensitivity.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I think what is being said, is that actual installs, the final drop, lead in, and ONT, is being done by Openreach .... unless this is on new build (unoccupied) estates, which might be done be either/or.

Contractors are working on provision of fibre network too, fitting and lightening up the nodes in the network.

Today has been a good day, Contractors completed the work and tested for light so he then told me the job will be handed over to Openreach / BT to get finalized and commissioned.

Have we still got a long wait or are we getting close does anyone know.

Testing for Light

It certainly looks like a very positive step in the right direction.

But would you not agree, for longevity, it makes sense that if it is possible to avoid a sharp bend, then do so.

In reply to a post by godsell4:

Its OFS Ez Bend Fibre, you can tie it in knots or staple it to walls and itll be fine, it is G657 B3 rated for bend insensitivity.

That name rings a bell. We were encouraged by the trainer to tie it in knots and even whack it with a hammer to see if it affected the light level passing through, it didn’t.

In reply to a post by busterboy:

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I was told by a friend in Openreach that contractors still aren’t doing FTTP installed and it is direct labour only.

Depends on what you guy's call direct labour only.

Direct labour in Openreach always meant Openreach employees. It is only Openreach employees doing FTTP installs where I live. But as Zarjaz says there may be exceptions on new build estates.

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Jul-20 21:00:08)

With bend insensitive fibre I would be happy for long term being at 150% of the minimum bend radius, which is still way tighter than the photos, so nothing to worry about. Even at double the minimum, bend radius that installation is fine if untidy.