Ordering a second FTTP line

Hi there,

I had a new FTTP connection installed for an area that's just had FTTP enabled about 3 weeks ago (I was also the first connection in the entirety of the area according to the Openreach engineer that rolled the fibre to my house).

I'd like to get a second FTTP connection, the problem however is my ONT only has 1 port, and the wholesale checker also says no spare ports are available. I also don't have a CSP (if that's what's used to split the fibre), I have a fibre line directly into my wall and then into the ONT, no other boxes.

Is there any way to get an ONT with more ports?

Picture attached: https://photos.app.goo.gl/bYpUvN3DcvHyKA8N8

Edited by deleted (Sat 18-Jul-20 19:04:40)

CSP at property does not split the fibre, it provides a transition between external fibre cable and an internal fibre cable

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

CSP at property does not split the fibre, it provides a transition between external fibre cable and an internal fibre cable

Understood, thanks for that clarification, never knew that. If I don't have a CSP, what is in my wall to transition between external and internal fibre? I have the black fibre cable outside going into my wall, then that internal one also going into the wall so must be something in there.

On point though, any chance you know about how to get a second FTTP line?

Hi mate

I've got a spare 4 port ONT (genuine Openreach kit & unregistered) lying around, don't ask me where i got it from I'd be more than happy to let you have it (free) but you would somehow need to get Openreach out to your property and swap it over. Technically its possible but would your CP (BT?) accept such a request? Once Openreach register a new 4 port ONT at your property then you can have up to 4 FTTP services running off a single fibre.

I believe you're also in Inversneckie so you can just pop over to Culloden/Westhill to collect the ONT

Edited by deleted (Sat 18-Jul-20 19:50:39)

If there’s no CSP, you’ll have a continuous run of fibre from the CBT to your ONT. Openreach were using a double jacketed fibre with the outer black jacket stripped off the internal run.

Can you explain why you would need two FTTP connections, are you a business ?.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Hi mate

I've got a spare 4 port ONT (genuine Openreach kit & unregistered) lying around, don't ask me where i got it from I'd be more than happy to let you have it (free) but you would somehow need to get Openreach out to your property and swap it over. Technically its possible but would your CP (BT?) accept such a request? Once Openreach register a new 4 port ONT at your property then you can have up to 4 FTTP services running off a single fibre.

I believe you're also in Inversneckie so you can just pop over to Culloden/Westhill to collect the ONT

Very kind of you! I'm in Culduthel but I'm going to call BT first and see how they handle it, Openreach may just come out and swap over to a 4 port ONT if I make the request.. we'll see when I call on Monday.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Can you explain why you would need two FTTP connections, are you a business ?.

My work has offered to pay for an additional line, I don't technically need it but it's free so why not

Edited by deleted (Sat 18-Jul-20 23:50:14)

In reply to a post by max1486:

Very kind of you! I'm in Culduthel but I'm going to call BT first and see how they handle it, Openreach may just come out and swap over to a 4 port ONT if I make the request.. we'll see when I call on Monday.

No worries, let us know how you get on with BT. But make it clear to BT, that a 4 port ONT - which hasn't been completely withdrawn yet - would allow you to have multiple FTTP services running simultaneously. Good luck!

In reply to a post by max1486:

My work has offered to pay for an additional line, I don't technically need it but it's free so why not

Why not get work to pay for your one line which you can use for home? Unlikely you’ll max it out especially as peak usage rarely coincides.

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

Why not get work to pay for your one line which you can use for home?

Possibly because HMRC would then insist that he paid tax on it as a benefit in kind...

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

Why not get work to pay for your one line which you can use for home?

Possibly because HMRC would then insist that he paid tax on it as a benefit in kind...

Not necessarily though - the "test" used is along the lines of "significant personal usage".

I had one provided for about 7 years. In a month, with 20 working days, I would be in the USA for a week, Europe somewhere for 2, 3, 4 days, maybe every second or third month another week away, 2 or 3 days in the London office, so typically 5-10 days use of the connection. In that time my wife and daughter would use it everyday - my wife for her business (known and accepted)plus my personal usage. My business usage when at home was significant though. Never considered to be a taxable benefit.

Random question but if you don't ask..

If Max were to get 2x BT 910 / 110 lines to his home would they be bonded making a total Download ~ Upload of 1820 / 220 through his one computer.

Edited by busterboy (Sun 19-Jul-20 17:35:41)

In reply to a post by busterboy:

Random question but if you don't ask..

If Max were to get 2x BT 910 / 110 lines to his home would they be bonded making a total Download ~ Upload of 1820 / 220 through his one computer.

Only if they were from the same ISP, *and* that ISP offered bonding as a service. BT consumer doesn't AFAIK; a business provider might.

They'd also be charged to the same account, being part of the same service, so the tax benefits of separate home and work lines would be lost.

Also, I seem to remember someone saying that there's an internal bottleneck inside the 4-port ONT, which limits the total throughput to 1G anyway.

I would be amazed if the ethernet output from an 4 port ONT was anything other than a standard 1GbE connection, so even if an ISP could be found to bind the lines together then it wouldn’t be possible to double the download.

Each of the 4 Ethernet ports are Gigabit. Each Gigabit FTTP service would be on a separate Ethernet port.

That would allow 2 x bonded gigabit services perfectly fine with a router with 2 x gigabit wan ports and supports bonding.

Unfortunately the Huawei HG8240GT 4 port ONT OpenReach provide only has a 1 Gb backplane between optical module and Ethernet switch making that a no go.

There are other variations of the Huawei 8240 with a beefier backplane that can handle dual gigabit.

Ordering a second service will result in install of a second fibre run and ONT.

The 4+2 ONTs are considered obsolete and will not be provided if there are ports available for a second fibre feeding a second ONT.

Thanks for all the comments, I'll let you know how it goes.

Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Jul-20 01:22:43)

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

Why not get work to pay for your one line which you can use for home?

Possibly because HMRC would then insist that he paid tax on it as a benefit in kind...

Not necessarily though - the "test" used is along the lines of "significant personal usage".

We attended an HMRC webinar last year on Working From Home. Sadly HMRC see WFH as a "perk" and are out to penalise it. Their stated response was that *any* personal usage that can be "measured" meant it should be classified as a benefit in kind, rather than the "significant" threshold. This seemed like a complete rathole - one could easily burn more billable hours calculating personal vs business use at the company provided firewall than HMRC would collect from tax. Does one measure retrospectively for bits across the work & personal interfaces or estimate based on line capacity? What happens if business user seeds and torrents Linux iso's 24x7 (giving back to the community). The user wasn't asking for electricity costs before, nor wall & floor space required to house company kit 24x7 (including holidays), nor heating and lighting, and was saving the company a bundle by not needing desk-space, toilet cleaning, landscaping etc.

Also beware if the user requests/opts to work from home, the miserly home working allowance can only be approved by an employer if they force the user to WFH (office downsizing, closure etc). No idea what happens if the user claims on their self-assessment form though!

This is the section of the HMRC manual

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-...

As long as the employer pays the ISP, and there is an element of business use, they accept that private use is insignificant if there is no extra usage-related charge. The same applies to the phone line. If you pay the bill and claim it, you’re unlikely to have it accepted as an allowable expense.

You can claim the £6 per week on your self assessment return.

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

This is the section of the HMRC manual

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-...

As long as the employer pays the ISP, and there is an element of business use, they accept that private use is insignificant if there is no extra usage-related charge.

I spoke to my accountant about this. The issue is around what constitutes "significant use". Their view is that if it's the only Internet connection in the home then it will be used for many home devices like tvs, laptops, phones etc, and would need to be treated as a benefit-in-kind.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I spoke to my accountant about this. The issue is around what constitutes "significant use". Their view is that if it's the only Internet connection in the home then it will be used for many home devices like tvs, laptops, phones etc, and would need to be treated as a benefit-in-kind.

I think your accountant is being pessimistic. As long as there is a business need for the service (you couldn't do your job without it, not just that you like to browse emails in the evening) and the cost of the service is not impacted by the non-business use (so a 1Gb service just to check those emails might be challenged), they generally will let you have it. Your employer needs to pay - you cannot pay and claim it back.

Point him or her to https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-... for more on significant use.