In reply to a post by Pheasant:

ISPs should absolutely NOT be bungling (typo but I’ll leave it to emphasise the point) a voice service whether it be copper or VoIP with their broadband.

Difference in wholesale costs between standalone broadband (SoGEA) and broadband with voice bundled is very small. For example Openreach charges CPs £265 pa for the SoGEA 330/50 FTTP product (sauce) whilst its £291 pa for the data+ voice product (sauce). So a difference of just over 2 quid per month. Which explains why some CPs like BT include voice as standard on their broadband offerings. It makes no sense to take out a third party VOIP service where voice is already included by the broadband provider, especially if its just to receive incoming calls.

Say QoS to the average person an the street and you will get quizzical looks

Mention VoIP and some may have heard of it but see it as incredibly complex, and with the games one sometimes has to undergo to get third party voip handsets working via random broadband routers you can understand it.

Bundled and supported voice service either over copper or the broadband reduces complexity for the public.

Before anyone calls for big changes to how telephone and broadband packages are sold in the UK they should consider not just their own needs but those of the much wider population.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Say QoS to the average person an the street and you will get quizzical looks

Agree completely, hence why my ISP (Virgin Media) has stopped installing copper pair, and now uses the RJ11 sockets on their Hub.

Mention VoIP and some may have heard of it but see it as incredibly complex, and with the games one sometimes has to undergo to get third party voip handsets working via random broadband routers you can understand it.

Agreed, most people think of VoIP in 2020 as the apps on their mobile device,e.g. WhatsApp, FaceTime or similar.

Before anyone calls for big changes to how telephone and broadband packages are sold in the UK they should consider not just their own needs but those of the much wider population.

100% agreement.

It's as much a cultural shift, for the phone providers too (BT still struggling with using an identifier other than phone number for a domestic circuit). But those who most use a conventional landline are those least likely to be able to (or want to) configure multiple devices; building ATA functionality into broadband routers must cost pence and standard kit makes support feasible.

Well the latest is TT will not provide FTTP for me, their advise (after a year of promises from CEO's office of it coming soon) was to go with BT, they can see it's in my area but I can only assume it's the exchange equipment needing updating. Funny enough they can supply a service to the school down the road, they had fibre laid years ago through some sort of council scheme, and AFAIK that fibre is nothing to do with domestic fibre as OR didn't piggyback off it.
BTW the agent I spoke to, at first didn't understand why I wanted to port the number and had no training on this, so had to consult with a manager.

The school connection will be a lease line which has no bearing on FTTP (in this context) at all.

TalkTalk unbundle exchanges and have their own backhaul - if the backhaul in the exchange isn't at a suitable capacity then they won't sell in that exchange yet. They presumably will have some sort of programme to upgrade exchanges but it could be a while as I doubt it is cheap and the FTTP market is still relatively small.

That’s a shame. If you don’t want to go with BT I suggest giving Sky Ultrafast FTTP team a call on 0333 759 4255 - like TT they don’t allow online orders just yet. However unlike TT, Sky do include a voice (VoIP) service as standard with their fttp offerings. Though I think sky don’t offer anything above 160/30 according to their flyer I received a few weeks ago.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

..the one good thing about having a normal landline is if you use it for an emergency and you get cut off, before you say where you are, it is easier for the emergency services to find you.

A SIP trunk is just like a landline in the respect of a 999/112 emergency call, you register a physical address with your VOIP service provider so the blues and two's know where to go.

In other ways a VOIP service that is not physically tied to a single physical broadband service is preferable. If someone chomps through your fibre / copper its easy to flip to say a 4G connection and still get a "landline" service.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

In reply to a post by threelegs:

that is like saying lots of things are free if you dont use them. all isps should provide a landline or a bundled voip

ISP = Internet Service Provider. They should no more be obliged to provide a landline/VoIP than they are a Zoom account.

A good point, normally ignored throughout these forums. In fact, the whole site.

(As I realise you know), Ofcom generally refer to Communications Providers, (CPs), which covers most or all all aspects of nationwide electronic communications. IIRC so does Openreach.

I occasionally do, when the phone side is being discussed on the site.

Interestingly I wonder if other services such as Zoom and VOIP providers do or will soon come under their aegis as well.

Edit for clarity: "their" as in Ofcom. Not as in Openreach.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 29-Jul-20 11:40:16)

For those that just have a phone service, how will that be provided in the future?