General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Pommeinzennor
(newbie) Wed 29-Jul-20 16:18:34
Print Post

FTTP to a office upstairs?


[link to this post]
 
Hello,

I have just found this forum after google search about having FTTP installed into a office upstairs. Having done a search of the forum I have not been able to answer my question, but apologies if it has been covered before.

I like in a 1966 bungalow which has had part of the attack converted into a bedroom and office. I have previously ordered FTTP (4 months ago), and explained when ordering that we would like the FTTP installed into the office, as well as explaining the lay out of the house. The telephone line comes to the end of the house with the attic, and there is a 5 meter section of attic with boarding and stilts. The sales person said this should not be a problem.

However when the engineer came to do the install, he said that the external box would have to be put next to the front door and the only place the ONT box would be straight through he wall into the bedroom. We advised him there were no power sockets there and this was not feasible, but his reply was due to the age of the wiring it is the only place it could do. I asked if they could not install the box on the outside and then run the wiring up the wall and then into the left, then office. The engineer said that he did not want to do that as it might not work properly. So we canceled the order and left it that I was stuck with DSL.

But last week I was talking to said to try a local company, so have spoken to them who said that there is no reason it can be done as we want, and that they will put the order through, but obviously I don't want the same situation to happen, or if I was to run some tubing and string so any wiring can be fed through easier this can be done prior.

https://ibb.co/2WNyMhh
Here is what bt wholesale checker says.

Any advice on what we are wanting is feasible would be greatly appreciated.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Jul-20 16:58:50
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pommeinzennor] [link to this post]
 
All you would need to do is run some Cat5 or Cat6 cabling from the feasible ONT location to where you want the router to be. This way you can do it how you see fit.

Tubing and a drawcord might work, but it depends on the installer on the day.

Standard User Pommeinzennor
(newbie) Wed 29-Jul-20 17:10:42
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
All you would need to do is run some Cat5 or Cat6 cabling from the feasible ONT location to where you want the router to be. This way you can do it how you see fit.

Tubing and a drawcord might work, but it depends on the installer on the day.


Thank you for the reply. Due to the function of the room, being my sons bedroom, as well as only one power socket in that room. I don't really want to have it in there.

How long can the cable that goes from the outside box to the ont be, it would be around 4 metres if they have the box by the front door. Is the cable also weatherproof?


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User PianSomB
(learned) Wed 29-Jul-20 17:12:44
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pommeinzennor] [link to this post]
 
As described above, you are probably best getting the ONT installed somewhere conveniently and unobtrusively near a power point and then running some cat 6 to where you want your router/network centre to be.

My fibre arrived in ducting into a wiring cupboard in the centre of my house. I ran network cabling from there to various places, (I am hoping to sell in the near future, so did not want to go to the bother and expense of a permanent, chased, installation.) I have found that flat cable like this (£16 for 20m) is unnoticeable at the bottom of skirting, and thin cable like this (£10 for 20m!) will slip into all sorts of places without being seen.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Jul-20 17:22:50
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pommeinzennor] [link to this post]
 
The fibre between the ONT (inside box - from which an ethernet cable runs to the router) and the CSP (external fibre connection point) can be up to 30m .... this cable is waterproof

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 29-Jul-20 18:25:46
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Issue may have been worries about having to crawl through a customers loft.

The CSP needs to be at ground level due to the need to splice the fibre together, but ONT cable can run some distance, if you install some tubing (duct) that has a rope in it to pull the fibre through easily i.e. one end indoors in office and other outside where they were going to install the CSP previously then all should be good.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User nicknack101uk
(newbie) Wed 29-Jul-20 19:54:19
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I had FTTP fitted last month, no problem with the ONT upstairs on an outside wall. The CSP is at ground level, then the fibre was run back up the outside wall by Openreach.

BT FTTP
TP-Link Archer C9
Standard User APTMAN
(member) Wed 29-Jul-20 21:58:39
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pommeinzennor] [link to this post]
 
If I was you I would install some ducting pipe like https://www.toolstation.com/mdpe-pipe/p11290
From where you BT line comes in (protruding out of the loft space wall or under the eaves about 6" /150mm ) run it through your loft space and down to a point where you want your ONT near two 13 A power sockets (one /ONT and one/router).

Another idea would be install some pipe duct though your roof space and out the other side (Like above) so BTOR chaps would only have to put there ladder up and maybe trim your pipe then they could feed fibre through your roof space without them going in there which they will not, then down the wall to the outside of your office.

That mdpe pipe is very strong so no tight bends in it (say radius of 12"/300mm would do), you would not need any draw rope as the fibre will push into it.

I was told today that CSP are not always used depends on where your BT line is feed from (maybe a pole ? how far away ?).

Some photos would be useful.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 29-Jul-20 22:05:18
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: APTMAN] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by APTMAN:
you would not need any draw rope as the fibre will push into it.
Would always recommend a draw rope when providing conduit/ducting for Openreach to use.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Wed 29-Jul-20 23:33:10
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: PianSomB] [link to this post]
 
This is why the ONT should be able to be powered using PoE, then these sorts of problems go away. Ubiquiti manage to do a GPON ONT that can be powered by both passive 24 PoE and pucker 802.3af for hardly any money. Hell Mikrotik manage it in their under £30 WiFi access points.

You could however just use a splitter. The idea you need a power point near an ONT is so last century.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Thu 30-Jul-20 00:46:14
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
This is why the ONT should be able to be powered using PoE, then these sorts of problems go away. Ubiquiti manage to do a GPON ONT that can be powered by both passive 24 PoE and pucker 802.3af for hardly any money. Hell Mikrotik manage it in their under £30 WiFi access points.

You could however just use a splitter. The idea you need a power point near an ONT is so last century.

The router would need to support a compliant PoE on its WAN port for the ONT to use. Many I have seen / used, especially in a typical ‘mixed‘ manufacturer setup don’t do so, at least on the WAN port(s).

Otherwise it’s a PoE injector and then the whole elegance idea goes out the window.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Thu 30-Jul-20 00:52:59
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: APTMAN] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by APTMAN:
If I was you I would install some ducting pipe like https://www.toolstation.com/mdpe-pipe/p11290
From where you BT line comes in (protruding out of the loft space wall or under the eaves about 6" /150mm ) run it through your loft space and down to a point where you want your ONT near two 13 A power sockets (one /ONT and one/router).

Another idea would be install some pipe duct though your roof space and out the other side (Like above) so BTOR chaps would only have to put there ladder up and maybe trim your pipe then they could feed fibre through your roof space without them going in there which they will not, then down the wall to the outside of your office.

That mdpe pipe is very strong so no tight bends in it (say radius of 12"/300mm would do), you would not need any draw rope as the fibre will push into it.

I was told today that CSP are not always used depends on where your BT line is feed from (maybe a pole ? how far away ?).

Some photos would be useful.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but personally I hate the idea of using blue MDPE water pipe (aka alkathene) as a conduit to contain services - other than water of course.

For a few pennies more pence more please use electrical conduit, either flexi which should have a draw inside it or solid with joiners and just run your own draw inside it.
Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 30-Jul-20 08:41:28
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
I concur regarding the use of blue pipe.

A friend has had a load of trouble due to the duct for a new electricity supply not being Red. They only agreed to use the Brown he had laid when following a dig at one end, they found that he had laid Electricity Warning Tape directly above the duct.

Initially they had wanted the 7-inch reinforced concrete yard to be dug up.....

Cheers!

Clive

Andrews & Arnold Home::1 FTTC DrayTek Vigor 2762ac Cisco SPA112 and HUAWEI E5776 with O2 Data SIM
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 30-Jul-20 09:57:22
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
This is why the ONT should be able to be powered using PoE, then these sorts of problems go away. Ubiquiti manage to do a GPON ONT that can be powered by both passive 24 PoE and pucker 802.3af for hardly any money. Hell Mikrotik manage it in their under £30 WiFi access points.

You could however just use a splitter. The idea you need a power point near an ONT is so last century.

The router would need to support a compliant PoE on its WAN port for the ONT to use. Many I have seen / used, especially in a typical ‘mixed‘ manufacturer setup don’t do so, at least on the WAN port(s).

Otherwise it’s a PoE injector and then the whole elegance idea goes out the window.


We have a chicken and egg situation. Till the ONT's provided support for some sort of PoE there is little point in router manufacturers doing PoE on the WAN port.

Though at this point I would note that there are options from Ubiquiti and Mikrotik with PoE on the WAN ports.

I will note that the Mikrotik cAP lite WiFi access point which is under £30 retail shipped can be passive PoE in the 10-60V range, and 802.3af/at powered, so it's not like it would cost much to add.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 30-Jul-20 10:14:32
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but personally I hate the idea of using blue MDPE water pipe (aka alkathene) as a conduit to contain services - other than water of course.


Have to agree, use the right conduit or duct.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-Jul-20 10:42:30
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
I will note that the Mikrotik cAP lite WiFi access point which is under £30 retail shipped can be passive PoE in the 10-60V range, and 802.3af/at powered, so it's not like it would cost much to add.

A lot of the Mikrotik Routers are Passive PoE that doesn't support the 802.3af/at you need it to be an active PoE for that.

I know my MikroTik Tik RB4011iGS+RM only supports a Passive PoE on port 1 to power it if I choose to power it that way, but I use the DC Jack for that.

I am not a fan of Passive PoE, I have had a few old'ish devices have issues with them in Switches.

Sadly Passive PoE does no negotiation and is always sending out power on that port no matter what is plugged in there, I learnt the hardware which is why I stay away from them and try to get Active PoE instead.

But once you know its there and what type it is using and its voltage range and you know the device being plugged into it then yeah it might be a good thing.

Paul

Standard User Pommeinzennor
(newbie) Thu 30-Jul-20 15:35:38
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Thank you all very much for the advice. I think ill install some electrical conduit with cord in it and then hopefully the btop engineer is willing to install it.

Is 20mm conduit the right diameter?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 30-Jul-20 16:29:01
Print Post

Re: FTTP to a office upstairs?


[re: Pommeinzennor] [link to this post]
 
Is 20mm conduit the right diameter?

The cable is around 7mm diameter, so should be fine. The important bit is nice gentle corners, nothing sharper than the radius of a 50p piece.

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to