FTTPod order: A couple of missing nails!

Perhaps this belongs in the main FTTPoD thread but this is more about Openreach and the way they do certain things.

For over a year I've been on a long and sometimes exasperating journey to get FTTPoD, and one I sorely wish I'd never started. Of course Covid-19 interrupted this to some degree, and perhaps should be partly to blame.

I live on a B road, on the Wickersley exchange where there's lots of Openreach infrastructure including two FTTC cabs one quite nearby and another about 900meters away. The one I'm connected to currently gives me a capped 25000KB/S, but never much more, so just over a year ago I decided to get a survey and quote for getting FTTPoD installed, which was on the high side of what was expected but nevertheless it was ordered with great anticipation, and then I was committed (I should be) to the FTTPoD installation process.

We are now at the end of that long roller coaster of a process, the CBT is on the top of the pole which is next door, and they did an audit on the installation, which has to pass before they will connect an overhead cable from my house to the CBT.

There were two Openreach vans outside a few weeks ago - and I spoke to one of the engineers, and he said they were doing the audit for my connection. Later that morning I went out - and was told in an extremely serious tone of voice: "The metal covering should have 16 nails in it, and there are only 14 nails. in it" - He also told me that if it was a native FTTP - it would have already been connected, with or without the nails but FTTPoD is different.

What?????

This is a metal sheath like affair which goes up the pole covering the cable, up to a certain height with a metal collar on the base of it covering the exit hole where the cable comes out from a chamber they put in the pavement. On the right side of that metal collar at the base of the pole there are two missing nails. So there are 14, and not 16.

The job controllers have advised today that the circuit failed its audit and has since been sent back to the field team to rectify the errors in the build.
These are minor and should not cause undue delay


Since then nothing. I've been checking for the nails every day since lol! It's clear that these two wretched nails are holding up the next stage of my connection. There are Openreach people working all the time on a new estate being built over my back fence. Indeed the fellow checking the circuit had took time away from working there.

So now I am waiting for someone to come and bang two wretched nails into a telegraph pole so I can get connected. Words cannot currently express the venom I feel for that company right now. No doubt even when they hammer in the nails it will have to be checked and double checked again. No doubt they might find that the similar collar which protects the copper multi core cable going up the pole is completely missing altogether. Maybe that might be the next excuse not to finally connect me.

Then of course - where I live (Wickersley) is now on the official list to get native FTTP - when that might be I've no idea. Probably by 2026 at the rate they seem to do things. Everyone else round here will get FTTP and I will still be waiting for my FTTPoD connection to be finished and the nails still won't be hammered into that collar.

By the way they are special nails with large round shiny metal cylindrical heads. Otherwise I'd have gone round to Screw-Fix to get some and hammered the darn things myself.

I've always found Openreach engineers very approachable/helpful, maybe these guys got out of the wrong side of the bed that day as it would have been quicker to put the nails in the capping rather than failing its audit.

sounds like they're getting sick of tidying up after sub-contractor mistakes so they're making a point of this one

In reply to a post by moosekebab:

sounds like they're getting sick of tidying up after sub-contractor mistakes so they're making a point of this one

You make a good point

In reply to a post by moosekebab:

sounds like they're getting sick of tidying up after sub-contractor mistakes so they're making a point of this one

Well, that might be true, and I could understand it, but the people who did the work were Openreach engineers, or at least they came in a large Openreach van, and then an Openreach cherry picker arrived, so they could put the CBT at the top of the pole.

Perhaps the fellow who did the audit didn't know who had done the work. But he did mention the nails otherwise I wouldn't have even thought about such a thing being a showstopper.

He was quite friendly, I must admit that. I had no problem with him at all. Just the system that's all.

Regards,
Shaun.

Edited by shaunhw (Sun 30-Aug-20 23:53:09)

This time its Openreach but sadly it's "Big company syndrome" hundreds of policies and procedures to follow passed through multiple tiers of authorization and responsibility, Unfortunately inevitable, These companies loose the flexibility and 'obvious' resolutions to the simplest of tasks, and its it very frustrating for customers and staff alike, I left my last job some ten years ago and a large part of that decision was the life sapping frustration of not being able to simply do the job i was being paid for because of the imposed hurdles and blocks to progress, all possibly well intentioned at inception.

Hope you get sorted soon, telecoms really does seem to be an industry that likes to ruin their customers experience of buying something at every available opportunity.

Swac3 wrote:

Hope you get sorted soon, telecoms really does seem to be an industry that likes to ruin their customers experience of buying something at every available opportunity.

Thanks.

You're not kidding though. I wonder how humanity ever did without them for so long.

Anyway - no update - despite one promised in 3-5 working days, which is now overdue.
The last update told me the audit had failed, but with only minor issues "which should not cause unduly delay" progress. Well it seems it has.


It wouldn't be so bad if I could be kept more up to date on the reasoning for the delay.

I looked again at the collar, and though one nail was hard to see, there is in fact only one nail missing. Right near the copper multicore cable for the telephone services on the pole.

No one has been to fix it. The nail is still missing.

Regards,
Shaun.

Edited by shaunhw (Fri 04-Sep-20 16:04:09)

this "stupidity" is the sort of thing that should be brought to the attention of the CEO.
to fail just because a couple of nails are missing is madness. why didnt the TWO "engineers" just hammer in a couple or have they not been trained to use a hammer so couldnt fill out a risk assessment

In reply to a post by threelegs:

this "stupidity" is the sort of thing that should be brought to the attention of the CEO.
to fail just because a couple of nails are missing is madness. why didnt the TWO "engineers" just hammer in a couple or have they not been trained to use a hammer so couldnt fill out a risk assessment

I agree completely.

But they hammered all the other nails in - and there seems to be just one nail missing in fact.

There's a commented picture of it here:
https://tinyurl.com/yyvsb7t5

The problem is that the copper multicore cable which goes up the pole, also comes out of the ground very near the hole in the collar where the nail is missing. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. But it's clear that the position of that cable, means they didn't have quite enough of it, when it went up the pole because it bends round quite tightly where it leaves the ground. Which makes me wonder why they didn't put that further round the pole nearer the front so it didn't need to bend backwards...

A skilled person could have fitted a nail, I am sure of that, without cable damage and in any case that's nothing to do with the fibre build. They could connect me, and then fix all that at their own convenience without me wondering what has gone wrong.

Right now, if they don't at least keep me fully informed, I feel like bringing a case of breach of contract. I presume Openreach will have already been paid all the money (about 9.5K + survey costs) I paid the service provider up-front to build the connection?

Shaun.

Edited by shaunhw (Sat 05-Sep-20 18:40:20)

I think you are getting hung up about a nail in a connector bend.

I doubt it has any impact on your delay.

In reply to a post by partial:

I think you are getting hung up about a nail in a connector bend.

I doubt it has any impact on your delay.

Maybe I am., and I agree that if it were so, it would be ridiculous However the engineer who did the audit told me about it, and that was the only thing he told me about. So far, no one else has told me what is wrong either.

Hopefully I will know soon enough.

Edited by shaunhw (Mon 07-Sep-20 08:59:16)

As good as their intentions are, I wouldn’t believe everything an Openreach bod on the ground tells you. You wouldn’t be the first person to have been fed wrong information (or misunderstood them) and you certainly won’t be the last.

As partial says, it’s extremely unlikely a missing nail or two has held up your fttp build, most likely down to some other reason.

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Sep-20 09:26:34)

It could be that the audit failure was not principally about the nail(s) themselves, but what I highlight in this quote:

But it's clear that the position of that cable, means they didn't have quite enough of it, when it went up the pole because it bends round quite tightly where it leaves the ground Which makes me wonder why they didn't put that further round the pole nearer the front so it didn't need to bend backwards...

A skilled person could have fitted a nail, I am sure of that, without cable damage and in any case that's nothing to do with the fibre build. They could connect me, and then fix all that at their own convenience without me wondering what has gone wrong.

There are specifications about the tightness of bends. That sort of thing is why installations are still vetted. Plus, bending backwards suggests too much cable, rather than not enough.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

As good as their intentions are, I wouldn’t believe everything an Openreach bod on the ground tells you.

Maybe not. Indeed I sincerely hope you ARE right because it would be the height of craziness, or perhaps a flimsy excuse because they are short of the resources to finish the connection.

But it was the auditor himself who I spoke to, who specifically mentioned the nails, how many there were and how many there should be. He didn't mention ANY other issue. I didn't even have to ask him, he volunteered that information, and he was very serious in the way he spoke about it. I remember wondering if he was having a laugh it seemed so ludicrous and ridiculous.

I have contacted the service provider to ask the reason for the delay and said that I will consider cancelling the contract, for a FULL refund, if I don't get one very soon.

Whatever the reason the audit failed for "minor" reasons which they have failed to disclose. It's not major then so should have been sorted by now.

I'm with other comments, don't get hung up on the nails. Very unlikely to be what failed the audit.

There's 1001 other things that can fail an audit.

The fact the OpenReach auditor made the comment that if it was native FTTP it would have passed but because it was FTTPoD it would not shows you have a muppet on your hands.

Your reaction in the OP to that comment by the auditor suggests even you have a suspicion he's a rambling idiot.

There are specifications about the tightness of bends. That sort of thing is why installations are still vetted. Plus, bending backwards suggests too much cable, rather than not enough.

Without arguing - If you wanted to put the cable vertically up the pole from an exit point in the ground and had enough cable it would run down vertically to a point where it entered the ground vertically, and any slack being left underground. Otherwise it would bend as it does, as there wasn't enough cable to form a neat 90 rounded underground curve.

They could of course have moved it further round the pole to the front and go up from there. My guess is the ground was dug up, they put the cable up the pole, then realised they didn't have enough cable to make a 90 degree rounded curve underground to exit vertically from the ground up the pole where they'd already put it. Hence the bend we see. Or maybe that was the standard for the time, and is perfectly OK.


So they left it where it was and had the curve at the base, because they couldn't be bothered to move the whole cable further towards the front of the pole and go up vertically from there. Still we speculate.

But this is irrelevant (or should be) -- it will have been like this for donkey's years now.
They shouldn't delay my connection because of a job possibly badly done, at least 20 years or more, ago.

EDIT:
Having thought a bit more, of course there is the possibility that the cable was slightly too long, so they took up the slack in that bend, which is why it's so far round the right side of the pole... I've no idea how they do these things.

Edited by shaunhw (Mon 07-Sep-20 12:38:41)

Your reaction in the OP to that comment by the auditor suggests even you have a suspicion he's a rambling idiot.

Perhaps you are right. Before all this, I would have thought it inconceivable that a couple (in fact one) missing nail would be such a show-stopper. But after his comments about them, and the solemn way he expressed them, I would have bet 100 quid that the audit would fail, which it certainly did with "minor issues", Believe me if I find out that this HAS been held up because of this, I will be extremely annoyed with them.

If there's any other reason I wish they would tell me, and let me know how long they will take to be resolved. That's all I want right now.

Edited by shaunhw (Mon 07-Sep-20 12:31:17)

We can all only speculate on what is going on (e.g. missing single nail or something else), hopefully at some point soon someone will officially give you the reason and you can take it from there.

Edit: Generally "Its good to talk" but sometimes speaking to the Openreach guys on the ground can cause confusion if either they don't know what they are talking about or the homeowner misunderstands the information they are being given.

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Sep-20 12:46:03)

In reply to a post by dect:

We can all only speculate on what is going on (e.g. missing single nail or something else), hopefully at some point soon someone will officially give you the reason and you can take it from there.

Edit: Generally "Its good to talk" but sometimes speaking to the Openreach guys on the ground can cause confusion if either they don't know what they are talking about or the homeowner misunderstands the information they are being given.

I guess so. But the impression I got, was that I was talking to one of the organ grinders. That bloke who did my audit is in charge of fibering up a whole new estate of over a hundred houses being build behind me, all who will have native FTTP, and some who have it already.

Anyway we shall see. I will post the reasons on here, should I learn what they are.

Regards,
Shaun.

Just a final update for this.

I finally got an update that the audit had been passed. Whatever it caused it to fail before, I have no idea. One of the nails is still missing. Amvia did get the delay raised to a high level of escalation within Openreach, about three weeks ago.

I got my FTTPoD fully installed yesterday after a 14 month journey - but Covid undoubtedly caused some delay.

There was no more delay. Things worked straight away during the Openreach engineer's visit, and the fibre cable was run overhead from the pole, through my loft, down a conduit tube I had put from there into a cupboard upstairs in the hallway, above which is situated my Draytek 2862 router, The engineer was very helpful and very friendly as they always seem to be and the connection is working extremely well with about 307mb/sec down 30mb/sec up.

Thats great news, glad it worked out in the end

Have you done a speed test on this site so your great speed shows on the map?

Well done. Enjoy!

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Have you done a speed test on this site so your great speed shows on the map?

Hi, Yes I've done a speed test, or ten!

It all works very well. Got one of the new even smaller Huawei ONTs 8.25cm x 9.cm. I have to be on 330/30 for the first year though,

Latest speed test:



Regards,
Shaun.

I just thought I'd post a picture of the final setup:

Tiny Openreach/Huawei ONT in cupboard

The white tubing was put in by me, and the Openreach engineer pulled it upwards with the drawstring I had put in the tube. He said it had made his job far easier. I've edited out the serial number of the ONT just in case it was a bad idea to leave it showing.

Shaun

Edited by shaunhw (Wed 30-Sep-20 15:21:24)

In reply to a post by shaunhw:

I just thought I'd post a picture of the final setup:

Tiny Openreach/Huawei ONT in cupboard

The white tubing was put in by me, and the Openreach engineer pulled it upwards with the drawstring I had put in the tube. He said it had made his job far easier. I've edited out the serial number of the ONT just in case it was a bad idea to leave it showing.

Shaun

Sheesh that looks small! Mine in comparison (2nd gen ONT) looks gigantic lol

https://postimg.cc/wtp1Py51

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Sheesh that looks small! Mine in comparison (2nd gen ONT) looks gigantic lol

https://postimg.cc/wtp1Py51

Ah, but you have ports for a phone service, the ethernet port for your service, extra ports for other services, and a backup battery all in that box.

Mine has fibre in, ethernet out, and a power connection and that's it!. Still I am glad it was so small as there isn't much space at the top shelf of that cupboard - I would have had to use the next shelf down as well, and my partner Michelle wouldn't have been very happy at all! She keeps all kinds of domestic stuff down on the lower shelves!

Thanks for posting your picture.

Best -
Shaun.

My goodness they are small.

Basic but ideal and does the job.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Sheesh that looks small! Mine in comparison (2nd gen ONT) looks gigantic lol
https://postimg.cc/wtp1Py51

Next thing we'll be having them fitting a standard pattress box!

In reply to a post by MCM:

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Sheesh that looks small! Mine in comparison (2nd gen ONT) looks gigantic lol
https://postimg.cc/wtp1Py51

Next thing we'll be having them fitting a standard pattress box!

No doubt all very possible, if it was actually desired. They’d probably ditch the physical connector from SC down to LC in the SFP module style. All the basic tech is miniaturised enough today for 25/50G based PON optics to fit inside an SFP size module...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

All the basic tech is miniaturised enough today for 25/50G based PON optics to fit inside an SFP size module...

The SFP modules we buy for data centres (mostly fibre channel) are not cheap, I assume the miniaturisation increases the price.

We do use some external Ethernet to Fibre convertors, which are a bit smaller than the pictured ONT

In reply to a post by MCM:

Next thing we'll be having them fitting a standard pattress box!

These pretty much do - a bit deeper than a standard socket but otherwise similar dimensions.

https://dktcomega.com/product/juma-series/