Can I use a 3rd Party Router with BT's 'Digital Voice'?

I'm an idiot and didn't realise 'Digital Voice' meant VOIP. I'm going with BT's full fibre 900.

Can I use a standard DECT phone with 'Digital Voice' and have it connected into my router 3rd party router? I really don't want to use their hub.

I'm looking at the Yealink W60P currently. Would that work?

BT Digital Voice seems to require the SmartHub 2 so you would need to have a separate VOIP connection (e.g. sipgate) if you want to use your own router.

In reply to a post by adowson:

I'm an idiot and didn't realise 'Digital Voice' meant VOIP. I'm going with BT's full fibre 900.

Can I use a standard DECT phone with 'Digital Voice' and have it connected into my router 3rd party router? I really don't want to use their hub.

I'm looking at the Yealink W60P currently. Would that work?

BT won't give you the information required to use your own router, if you need to make outgoing calls via a landline you are better off looking at one of the other VOIP providers as the call charges will be a lot cheaper.

Edited by deleted (Sat 05-Sep-20 22:33:11)

As pointed out by others to make or receive landline calls via BT Digital Voice you must use their Smart Hub.

There's currently no way around this.

You also can't port the number to a 3rd party VOIP provider without it ceasing the FTTP.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

You also can't port the number to a 3rd party VOIP provider without it ceasing the FTTP.

Really? That's insane. I can understand with ADSL/FTTC since the phone line is a part of the internet connection. But FTTP is entirely seperate from the phone line.

BT/Openreach have not yet installed the service in my property. Is there any way of just cancelling the landline component now without losing the entire package?

In reply to a post by adowson:

BT/Openreach have not yet installed the service in my property. Is there any way of just cancelling the landline component now without losing the entire package?

BT don't sell naked FTTP without voice. You could cancel it and go with a different provider.

Alternatively, to move your existing voice number to a VOIP provider without cancelling the underlying service, there is a procedure called "renumber with number export".

AAISP know how to do this. Their VOIP service is reputedly good, and reasonably priced, and you can take it without taking any broadband service from them. Plus you could always port your number from AAISP to another VOIP provider later.

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/number-porting/
https://www.revk.uk/2016/04/number-porting-broadband...

From the BT stable, onlly BT Business allow their Digital Voice service to be used on third party routers. They supply the Yealink W60 IP Dect phone as standard with their voip service which is already preconfigured so its just plug & play:

https://business.bt.com/content/dam/bt/business/v2/P...

You can cancel your BT Residential order without penalty If you're still within the 14 day cooling off window. BT Business do accept non business customers.

Alternatively, to move your existing voice number to a VOIP provider without cancelling the underlying service, there is a procedure called "renumber with number export".

AAISP know how to do this. Their VOIP service is reputedly good, and reasonably priced, and you can take it without taking any broadband service from them. Plus you could always port your number from AAISP to another VOIP provider later.

It always seems to be AAISP coming to the rescue. With hindsight I would have ported the existing landline to them (or just kept it with my old provider) and setup a new one with BT for the FTTP on PAYG.

Isn't it now too late to do something like "renumber with number export"? BT are already porting from my previous provider and have cancelled the service with them.

If you are migrating to BT from elsewhere, which is what has automatically caused a pending cancellation of your existing service, you can simply cancel the BT order. That should reverse everything. It would be wise however to check with your existing supplier after BT accept that cancellation.

See Section 7.5 of Ofcom General Condition C7. (I advise reading the whole of the landline part of C7 to make sure both providers are following the rules).

You would need to cancel your migration to BT, then migrate your landline number to a VOIP provider, then order BT FTTP with a new number.

Although "Renumber with number export" is an OpenReach service I did not mention it because BT do not use it.

Alternatively cancel with BT and go with someone else, perhaps a FTTP data only provider like Zen or Talktalk.

Someone else might be able to confirm if you can still use the BT Hub for Digital Voice when running a 3rd party router, running the Hub behind your router.

The BT system picks when ordering if you get Digital Voice and there's currently no way for BT sales staff to alter the order.

Sorry last question I promise. I've put through my cancel request to BT, hopefully they respond in time since we're on the 11th day now since the package was ordered.

Once it is cancelled and I've told my old provider (Virgin Media) to put the phone line back on our bill (effectively reverting everything), how long should I wait before I either port or 'renumber with number export' to AAISP? The porting date was the 23rd of Sept. Technically speaking couldn't I just do it immediately after reverting to Virgin Media?

Also is there any page explaining the process of 'renumber with number export'? It's not something I've come across before and I'm interested to know how it's different from just porting.

In reply to a post by adowson:

Also is there any page explaining the process of 'renumber with number export'? It's not something I've come across before and I'm interested to know how it's different from just porting.

"Renumber with number export" is a BT/Openreach thing. I don't know if Virgin Media have an equivalent process.

Google "renumber with number export" and you'll find:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/aaisp-...
https://www.revk.uk/2016/04/number-porting-broadband...
https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/number-portin...

Now you have cancelled the Virgin to BT port, why not just order FTTP from BT but as a new line. You'll get a new number, and once BT FTTP is up and running, port your Virgin number to AAISP or anyone else (I use AAISP and they are good) and that will cease the Virgin service.

Hmmmm.

I'm not sure how some of the advice given, including mine, holds good. Porting the number is one thing, but a move from Virgin Media to an Openreach provider is not a service migration. It is a "Cease and provide". Not even a "Cease and re-provide".

I expect you will still be OK, but wish you had put that in your opening post. Just double check that both the order from BT has been cancelled, and that VM are are definitely keeping your service live.

There is so much can go wrong, through sheer muddle and lack of third part coordination in their order processes. Had you previously personally given VM notice of cancellation, or had it been triggered by your BT order? What communication(s) had you received from VM?

I was surprised to see a BT order triggering a VM cancellation as I only thought a migration on the same infrastructure would trigger a cancellation of the old service.

It appears it probably didn't. Everyone assumed it was a migration between Openreach services but it turns out it isn't so the OP must have manually triggered the line cancellation with Virgin. As it stands with the new information what they were doing would potentially have been OK if they had then migrated the Virgin number to VoIP after the BT line went live.

In reply to a post by ian72:

It appears it probably didn't. Everyone assumed it was a migration between Openreach services but it turns out it isn't so the OP must have manually triggered the line cancellation with Virgin. As it stands with the new information what they were doing would potentially have been OK if they had then migrated the Virgin number to VoIP after the BT line went live.

Nope.
The OP already wrote

Isn't it now too late to do something like "renumber with number export"? BT are already porting from my previous provider and have cancelled the service with them.

While you still need to contact Virgin to cancel when switching to the OpenReach network, you can still port your number, which the OP did.

If they did as you suggest they would be too late and be stuck with the number on BT Digital Voice.

I've literally just migrated from Virgin to BT FTTP on the 12th August.

In reply to a post by ian72:

It appears it probably didn't. Everyone assumed it was a migration between Openreach services but it turns out it isn't so the OP must have manually triggered the line cancellation with Virgin. As it stands with the new information what they were doing would potentially have been OK if they had then migrated the Virgin number to VoIP after the BT line went live.

OK that makes sense

Virgin will happily extend any leaving date you have coordinated with them.
If you had to give Virgin 30 days notice you do not need to start this again.

Contact them and confirm you aren't leaving just yet.
Give it a couple days then migrate the number to a VOIP provider.

Then just order FTTP from BT or someone else as a new customer.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 07-Sep-20 11:28:13)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

While you still need to contact Virgin to cancel when switching to the OpenReach network, you can still port your number

This is interesting, do you have to tell BT at order time that you plan to port your VM number? if so what info do you have to give to BT and VM so your VM number appears as the BT digital voice number?

Virgin are moving to the gaining led provider process just like everyone on the OpenReach network.

I gave BT the number I wanted to keep when migrating to them.
They contacted Virgin who released the number.

BT webpage still recommends contacting Virgin and coordinating a leaving date with them, which I did.

I'm not sure if the gaining led provider stuff is up and running so contacted both providers to be sure.

I'd do it the other way round - make sure BT FTTP is working first, then port your Virgin number. You may have a few days overlap but better that than a gap if installing FTTP goes wrong.

Hi all,

Sorry for the lack of updates - it's taken awhile to get this fixed.

So here's what I did. I cancelled my order with BT and cancelled the port to them citing that I thought 'Digital Voice' was a bit of a deceptive name.

Then I ported my number out the Andrews & Arnold's VOIP service which is similar to 'BT Digital Voice' but allows me to use my own equipment and is cheaper. They pre-configured the equipment and I setup siproxd on pfSense to allow VOIP traffic.

Once it was ported (today) the phones all registered fine. I'll switch my broadband later from VM probably to Zen.

My broadband is still active after the port because the number was originally a BT Retail number and is seperate from the VM broadband.

All sorted.