FTTP for a modern build area, what are the requirements?

This is more curiosity than anything, but I was wondering about how would Openreach go about enabling my area for FTTP under the standard/normal circumstances generally? To clarify I'm not interested in FTTPoD or anything like that, just about the process on what steps are needed to get FTTP to an area, which is currently FTTC only. I'll provide some background on the area in hopes this helps provide some detail.

The area I live at was completed in 2006, so fairly "new" but obviously predating before FTTP was prevalent. All the houses were pre-wired with BT lines and the whole area is underground ducting no telegraph poles. All houses have BT cable entry covers on the front in varying locations, depending on the property leading into the premises. Right now you can get up to 80 Mbps through FTTC. Virgin Media are also in the area, but their cabling is a bit patchy for some houses. Suggesting that Virgin Media extended their network sometime after the construction was done, but only covered some properties. I myself had to wait two months for construction, so they could extend their cabling down to the bottom of a cul-de-sac where I am, they seemingly stopped about mid way which they couldn't really explain but could have been for many reasons. So half the houses at the bottom end were SOL on broadband choice, until I came along, as now their cables do reach the bottom end and two other properties on either side now have this option although their checker still says "contact us to discuss further" which I had to originally. Now though there is a T point available at least.

Because the area itself has modern ducting in place, does this mean that running FTTP cables through shouldn't be too difficult? Equally, running these cables to each premise with the BT entry covers already in place means there should be access for new cables to come through potentially, without tearing up people's tarmac drives? I unfortunately, had to pay that price when Virgin Media did agree to extend down to me and hence paid the construction/civil costs to enable me to get service, by taking a small bit off the edge off my drive to do it, because it is all tarmac, no garden, soil, gravel etc, a small price to pay however for having faster broadband!

The exchange I'm going to is FTTP enabled according to the data, my approx distance (straight line) is 817 metres, but the majority of the town does not have FTTP from a residential standpoint based on coverage maps. The exchange itself is classified as Market 3 so it has various providers and LLUs, along with Virgin Media in the surrounding area.

I've read that new build areas within the past 10 years or so generally wouldn't show up on the typical, announcement of build lists and eventually it just happens at some point. I figured that due to the fact the exchange is classified as Market 3/4 and has an major alternative provider i.e. Virgin Media for faster speeds greater than FTTC, that the area isn't likely to get it FTTP anytime soon, as it doesn't fit the priority list.

Just generally curious, apologies if this is a stupid question, I've found myself becoming more and more interested in the infrastructure behind all of this and generally interested about it all!

Edited by jamesmacwhite (Mon 21-Sep-20 21:28:24)

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

Because the area itself has modern ducting in place, does this mean that running FTTP cables through shouldn't be too difficult? Equally, running these cables to each premise with the BT entry covers already in place means there should be access for new cables to come through potentially, without tearing up people's tarmac drives?

Yes.

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

The exchange I'm going to is FTTP enabled according to the data, my approx distance (straight line) is 817 metres

The exchange where the fibre it lit (the headend exchange) is not necessarily the same as the local exchange where copper terminates. It can be a much larger exchange some distance away.

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

I figured that due to the fact the exchange is classified as Market 3/4 and has an major alternative provider i.e. Virgin Media for faster speeds greater than FTTC, that the area isn't likely to get it FTTP anytime soon, as it doesn't fit the priority list.

Not at all. Virgin has proved there's demand, and Virgin has done the marketing to raise awareness of higher speed broadband. Hence there's a ready market of people ready to see some competition, and an opportunity for Openreach to capture them back.

In areas without Virgin, Openreach would only be competing with itself - which means there is less commercial benefit to rolling out FTTP.

Thank you for your insights, it is appreciated!

Good to know the cul-de-sac I live at is least fairly straightforward to deploy FTTP cables if and when that happens at least!

With the local exchange vs headend exchange point you've made, I guess this is a key part to the FTTP puzzle, before you can even consider upgrading areas served by the local exchange? As in, right now the local exchange I'm going to technically has FTTP enabled but not necessarily available, is further work needed at the headend for this to be made available on-mass so to speak?

I didn't think of it that way regarding competition. I was viewing it on more of the fact that due to the lack of FTTP product from Openreach, BT and no other LLUs and such can offer anything better, Virgin Media have basically had a monopoly on faster broadband in my area for years, although those not happy or not willing to go with Virgin Media, I guess would want the competition, so it works both ways I guess!

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

As in, right now the local exchange I'm going to technically has FTTP enabled but not necessarily available, is further work needed at the headend for this to be made available on-mass so to speak?

Unless your local exchange also happens to be the GEA headend exchange, where the “fibre is lit”, so to speak, your nearest local exchange doesn’t really come into it at all.

FTTP is distributed via a completely separate network to the copper. Conceptually with FTTP the devices in the network called Aggregation Nodes are more important (as they are a direct link to the Headend exchange). Not local exchanges per se.

Thanks for clarifying.

I've seen Aggregation Nodes and FTTP commonly referred to in many threads here and other places. Where do these nodes exist within the network? Are these usually found in underground ducts?

Edited by jamesmacwhite (Mon 21-Sep-20 23:01:51)

Typically installed within underground chambers. They are the primary fibre network distributor/breakout after the headend exchange, positioned in a radial fashion.

AN’s directly feed both FTTC cabinets and the downstream FTTP network. Within the FTTP distribution, once the fibre leaves the headend exchange it is completely passive until it reaches the ONT inside your premises, where the signals are converted from light to electrical (Ethernet).

Thanks. All very interesting stuff!

The ONT essentially being the FTTP equivalent of what would be a DSL modem converting the signal to Ethernet from a FTTC perspective? The modem for a fibre connection essentially.

Yes precisely. The Optical Network Terminal. Sometimes in other settings/countries referred to as the Optical Network Unit (ONU). Same thing.

Its partner in crime in the exchange is usually called the OLT or Optical Line Terminal. Roughly equivalent to something like the DSLAM.

Try this link to get a quote from Openreach under a Community Fibre Project. It may cost less than you think given you have modern ducting etc.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/community-...

In reply to a post by zag164:

Try this link to get a quote from Openreach under a Community Fibre Project. It may cost less than you think given you have modern ducting etc.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/community-...

If there are already good FTTC speeds and Virgin available in the OPs area then the chances of other residents contributing to the CFP build are close to zero. A CFP usually succeeds where no kind of super fast broadband exists, eg residents still stuck on adsl2+ or ADSL Max or poor FTTC speeds.

Thanks. I am aware of the community fibre project, but my post was more for general curiosity really about when a native FTTP deployment happens naturally and what would be involved relative to the current/existing ducting and such. While I do find myself reading about the various FTTPoD stories on here, I have no desire to spend the amount required for getting FTTP quicker.

Equally, compared to those stuck in ADSL land, the area isn't exactly bad in terms of the FTTC availability now and with Virgin Media HFC to compliment this, means at the moment 500 Mbps is the top speed available, with the exception of a few missed premises on my road and others dotted around probably (unlucky for them).

I've already had Virgin Media extend their cables down to my residence to get faster speeds than FTTC, so in essence that is my solution currently, the only thing I had to do was wait two months for construction. Fortunately, the local authority let them dig up the nice pavement, as given it's a relatively newish build, they were pretty untouched, then I came along!

Fair enough. However my experience of FTTPoD might help you wrt to some of your questions. Like yours, my property is relatively new (built in 2008) with all utilities running underground and not a BT overhead pole in sight for miles. I got FTTPoD installed in 2017 and the build took around 4 months. I paid £3700 for this, under the old band D construction tiers. Though I had to cough up £300/m for the next 36 months (ouch).

My biggest fear/worry was having my front drive & garden dug up to lay the new fibre. However, the Surveyor who came out to survey the property assured me this wouldn't happen and existing ducts would be re-used. This indeed was the case and I can't remember Openreach doing any digging at all during the 3-4 months. At present I am the only one with Openreach FTTP on my street.

Externally, Openreach modified my existing copper ducting cover to install a fibre CSP, this is the only visible change externally:

https://imgur.com/a/Pvh03OX

Openreach no longer install this type of CSP as its all (or mostly) connectorized fibre these days. Though i believe they *might* still blow fibre to properties in some special cases.

HTH

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Openreach no longer install this type of CSP as its all (or mostly) connectorized fibre these days.

I had a connectorised install about a year ago, but apparently they've now gone back to CSPs. There are a number of advantages, including being able to do the internal install and external install on separate occasions.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Fair enough. However my experience of FTTPoD might help you wrt to some of your questions. Like yours, my property is relatively new (built in 2008) with all utilities running underground and not a BT overhead pole in sight for miles. I got FTTPoD installed in 2017 and the build took around 4 months. I paid £3700 for this, under the old band D construction tiers. Though I had to cough up £300/m for the next 36 months (ouch).

My biggest fear/worry was having my front drive & garden dug up to lay the new fibre. However, the Surveyor who came out to survey the property assured me this wouldn't happen and existing ducts would be re-used. This indeed was the case and I can't remember Openreach doing any digging at all during the 3-4 months. At present I am the only one with Openreach FTTP on my street.

Thank you for sharing your FFTPoD adventure! How many houses past did you gift FTTP to in the end? If I had the money, I probably would consider it to be honest, but I can't justify FTTPoD, given I managed to get Virgin Media down to my property at their expense. Maybe if that didn't happen, I might have seriously entertained the idea. In my mind, it's not actually just the build costs, it's the high fixed pricing for 3 years that really is hard to swallow, but it's not exactly your average broadband install after all! Although sounds like you are nearing the end of your 3 year period, so I'll bet you will enjoy the regrade down to normal pricing soon!

I had an Openreach engineer out for a backup FTTC line I've got installed, he basically said the area should be fairly easy to run FTTP to given all the underground ducting. Which is good as most houses were built with entirely tarmac drives, so that's one hell of a mess Openreach probably don't want! Although, it would seem the general surrounding area as a whole will not be getting FTTP anytime soon, but at least it is not FTTC only in most cases.

As stated before, none of the other properties near me have FTTP on the back of my FTTPoD order. Thats because under the previous scheme (until ~2018) FTTPoD orders were lone builds, no matter how cheap it was to enable others at the same time.

I can't see any of the neighbours ordering FTTPoD as they're alreading capable of getting the full 80/20 sync on FTTC and more crucially, CityFibre will shortly be installing FTTP in our street as well. But CityFibre definitely will be digging up our street... Apparently they've decided not to re-use Openreach ducts under the PIA scheme.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

If there are already good FTTC speeds and Virgin available in the OPs area then the chances of other residents contributing to the CFP build are close to zero. A CFP usually succeeds where no kind of super fast broadband exists, eg residents still stuck on adsl2+ or ADSL Max or poor FTTC speeds.

Respectfully that wasn't my experience. All properties in our CFP had FTTC at speeds ranging from between about 30 to 70Mbps and 29 of 35 properties took part. Post Covid demand is even stronger with remote working etc. A CFP will likely cost far less if FTTC is already available as the fibre node may not be far away and ducting will be in place at least as far as the FTTC cab. In an area with ADSL and no fibre, the costs to Openreach would be significantly higher. I appreciate the OP has said they are not interested in pursuing a CFP but just wanted make that point. Unlike FTTPoD it costs nothing to get a quote.

In reply to a post by zag164:

In reply to a post by Highland76:

If there are already good FTTC speeds and Virgin available in the OPs area then the chances of other residents contributing to the CFP build are close to zero. A CFP usually succeeds where no kind of super fast broadband exists, eg residents still stuck on adsl2+ or ADSL Max or poor FTTC speeds.

Respectfully that wasn't my experience. All properties in our CFP had FTTC at speeds ranging from between about 30 to 70Mbps and 29 of 35 properties took part. Post Covid demand is even stronger with remote working etc. A CFP will likely cost far less if FTTC is already available as the fibre node may not be far away and ducting will be in place at least as far as the FTTC cab. In an area with ADSL and no fibre, the costs to Openreach would be significantly higher. I appreciate the OP has said they are not interested in pursuing a CFP but just wanted make that point. Unlike FTTPoD it costs nothing to get a quote.

Fair enough

In reply to a post by Highland76:

As stated before, none of the other properties near me have FTTP on the back of my FTTPoD order. Thats because under the previous scheme (until ~2018) FTTPoD orders were lone builds, no matter how cheap it was to enable others at the same time.

I can't see any of the neighbours ordering FTTPoD as they're alreading capable of getting the full 80/20 sync on FTTC and more crucially, CityFibre will shortly be installing FTTP in our street as well. But CityFibre definitely will be digging up our street... Apparently they've decided not to re-use Openreach ducts under the PIA scheme.

Ah fair enough, I didn't know that FTTPoD was limited to single builds at that time.

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

Thank you for sharing your FFTPoD adventure! How many houses past did you gift FTTP to in the end? If I had the money, I probably would consider it to be honest, but I can't justify FTTPoD, given I managed to get Virgin Media down to my property at their expense. Maybe if that didn't happen, I might have seriously entertained the idea. In my mind, it's not actually just the build costs, it's the high fixed pricing for 3 years that really is hard to swallow, but it's not exactly your average broadband install after all! Although sounds like you are nearing the end of your 3 year period, so I'll bet you will enjoy the regrade down to normal pricing soon!

CurrentlFTTPod builds are not tied into 3 years fixed pricing, you can now regrade after a year, that said build costs are now significantly higher, but may still be cheaper than what the build + 36 payments of £300 add up.

~£300 per month was Fluidata I believe. On the old pricing, Cerberus were charging £165+VAT for the 36 month contract period.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

In reply to a post by jamesmacwhite:

Thank you for sharing your FFTPoD adventure! How many houses past did you gift FTTP to in the end? If I had the money, I probably would consider it to be honest, but I can't justify FTTPoD, given I managed to get Virgin Media down to my property at their expense. Maybe if that didn't happen, I might have seriously entertained the idea. In my mind, it's not actually just the build costs, it's the high fixed pricing for 3 years that really is hard to swallow, but it's not exactly your average broadband install after all! Although sounds like you are nearing the end of your 3 year period, so I'll bet you will enjoy the regrade down to normal pricing soon!

Current FTTPod builds are not tied into 3 years fixed pricing, you can now regrade after a year, that said build costs are now significantly higher, but may still be cheaper than what the build + 36 payments of £300 add up.

You can not only re-grade but also re-contract after 12 months with FTTPoD, at least with Cerberus. My contract with them was signed in mid 2018, and went live in June 2019. So it’s been that way for quite a while.

Personally I try and avoid 3 year telecoms contracts if I can at all.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 27-Sep-20 20:51:00)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

~£300 per month was Fluidata I believe. On the old pricing, Cerberus were charging £165+VAT for the 36 month contract period.

I remember when Cerberus first launched FTTPoD under the old pricing in 2017, they were selling it for around £80/m on a 36 month term, this was less than than the wholesale Openreach cost at the time!

However once they realised their monthly pricing was a recipe for bankcruptcy, they increased this to £150+/m, I don't think they accepted any orders on their original pricing. They also had a monthly FUP of 750GB but quickly scrapped this once they realised 750GB is hardly a reasonable data allowance for a business grade service.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

~£300 per month was Fluidata I believe. On the old pricing, Cerberus were charging £165+VAT for the 36 month contract period.

I remember when Cerberus first launched FTTPoD under the old pricing in 2017, they were selling it for around £80/m on a 36 month term, this was less than than the wholesale Openreach cost at the time!

However once they realised their monthly pricing was a recipe for bankcruptcy, they increased this to £150+/m, I don't think they accepted any orders on their original pricing. They also had a monthly FUP of 750GB but quickly scrapped this once they realised 750GB is hardly a reasonable data allowance for a business grade service.

Hah yeah that reminds me Cerberus were ready to levy a nice hefty Market A surcharge on my service until I reminded them that my GEA headend exchange had actually been regraded to Market B! They were very good about it, and rescinded the proposed charges, but I’m not sure they were about to volunteer that until I piped up. Caveat emptor and all that.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

As stated before, none of the other properties near me have FTTP on the back of my FTTPoD order. Thats because under the previous scheme (until ~2018) FTTPoD orders were lone builds, no matter how cheap it was to enable others at the same time.

I can't see any of the neighbours ordering FTTPoD as they're alreading capable of getting the full 80/20 sync on FTTC and more crucially, CityFibre will shortly be installing FTTP in our street as well. But CityFibre definitely will be digging up our street... Apparently they've decided not to re-use Openreach ducts under the PIA scheme.

One would have thought that an FTTPoD order would be rather cheap in these circumstances. Even a possibility that paying the £250 for the survey would have yourself flipped to native FTTP in the Openreach records.

To be honest you might think that Openreach would pull out their FTTPoD records from the old scheme and flip all the additional properties to native FTTP. Be the cheapest fastest extension of the properties passed they could ever achieve.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

To be honest you might think that Openreach would pull out their FTTPoD records from the old scheme and flip all the additional properties to native FTTP. Be the cheapest fastest extension of the properties passed they could ever achieve.

Depends whether they actually installed multi-port CBTs - it's possible they didn't. It would be interesting to know though. And unless the surveyor recorded exactly which properties would be able to use it (which they had no reason to do), they'd have to re-survey.

The FTTPoD order volume limit back then was 20 per month nationwide, so it's not going to be an enormous number of additional properties anyway.

So about a year and half later, Openreach have now appeared in the area! Quite out of the blue to be honest, I occasionally would put in my postcode in: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband and noticed a few months ago that the returned response was "We're starting to build our ultra-fast, ultra-reliable Full Fibre broadband in your area." where as before it would state "At the moment, we don't have any plans to upgrade your area to full fibre". There have been contractors in the surrounding area digging up the pavement and laying ducting as well having connection points at the end of each property (no telegraph poles).

one.network now shows that they will be on my road specifically next week for about two weeks. The one thing I didn't mention is for whatever reason, the very top of my road has a distribution pole that serves the first 6 or so houses, then from there it is all underground ducting, I'm at the bottom so it's all underground ducting for me. My drive in fact has a BT marked pavement cover possible a JF4 type outside it, it's quite possible that's where the CBT will be, unless they will be putting in any other pavement chambers further up.

Great news though, there will be an alternative FTTP provider option other than Virgin Media in the area hopefully by the end of the year, as I know going live can take some time.

Excellent news.

With Openreach aiming to cover about 80% of the UK with FTTP by end of 2026, this will become a more and more common story - and in part explains why Openreach are considering dropping FTTPoD entirely from November this year.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Excellent news.

With Openreach aiming to cover about 80% of the UK with FTTP by end of 2026, this will become a more and more common story - and in part explains why Openreach are considering dropping FTTPoD entirely from November this year.

It is great news indeed, if anything to remove the monopoly on high speed fibre broadband that's been historic back to the NTL days in my area. It has been great to see all the CBT's popping up on telegraph poles in the surrounding area giving me hope that FTTP is coming to my area in the future. Some areas are all telegraph poles, others none at all, hence some of the digs required, harder to know what's happening when it is all underground. Although one.network is useful to indicate, when there is a cluster of Openreach related activities in a single area, can usually bet it's FTTP related.

I did do the FTTPoD estimate quote through Cerberus networks last year, but I got back "Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges", perhaps because it's a newer area, but either way they might have just immediately stopped it, given the area was in scope for FTTP or about to be. Realistically, I wouldn't have done it anyway, more for the curiosity side and maybe to indicate how close I was to the nearest aggregation node relative to what the estimate cost was, but I couldn't even get one, so not really anything useful to be had.

Although now, doesn't really matter. It will be interesting to see what work they do on my road to facilitate FTTP based on my original post in 2020. I'm pretty sure they'll be using the existing ducts that the FTTC connections are using, (hopefully not blocked!). I've even seen inside the chamber outside my drive where many of the existing FTTC connection are, I don't know the correct term off the top of my head but, it's got a block with a transparent clear casing with many wires and connections. My suspicion, is that's where they'll put a CBT.

I also came across https://bidb.uk/ which provides detailed info on the Openreach related works in the area, one.network no longer provides the descriptions anymore due to a data policy change. Most of surrounding areas says something along the lines of:

LAY 182MTR NEW BT DUCT, INSTALL X TOBY BOXES, SWEPT TEES AND X BOX IN FW, which isn't a surprise given no poles, but certainly confirms FTTP, not that it wasn't likely to be anything else anyway. My specific road has no specific note, but then again I don't believe there would need to be any major dig work due to infrastructure existing.

There does however appear to be a blockage on a road further up where the fibre will likely be coming from, so explains why perhaps the delay.

Better Internet Dashboard is something I didn't know about before, but it seems very useful, I'd previously just used one.network, but the lack of work description has been a bit of a pain for FTTP tracking.