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Standard User tikka69
(member) Wed 21-Oct-20 13:23:22
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CFP intial estimate received


[link to this post]
 
Hi all

Just had the intial response back from Openreach for the CFP I setup to try and get FTTP to my area.

Partnering with SYSF we focused on 2 streets where I live rather than the whole village as it would be too bigfor me to take on. ( DN9 3PH / DN9 3PQ )

There were 50 houses in total for the 2 streets and I managed to get 30 out of them signed up to it all of which are eligable for the Rural Vouchers, which would come to 45k.

However the Openreach quote has just come back after 3 weeks and is showing just over 200k in total for a total of 60 premises ( they have added a few in that are passed I presume ).

Given the shortfall there will be ( circa 155k ) its not looking too hopeful !

I am just trying to get a breakdown of the cost and why its so high, from what I can tell its down to the fibre spine length but am trying to get more details.

I have looked at some of the new builds in this area that have gone straight onto FTTP and can see from the BT Wholesale checker that their exchange is showing as Hatfield Woodhouse ( rather than our local one Finningley ) so I am wondering if this is where its having to go back to, hence to cost ?

Am I wrong in thinking that while BT would have been putting in fibre for the new builds in this area that are going straight onto it they would have put in capacity for all the remaining houses on FTTC for future upgrades or doesnt it work like that ?

T69
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 21-Oct-20 13:42:15
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
An FTTP feed to you would probably come from the aggregation point that feeds your FTTC cabinet.

It may however come from one nearer to you that feeds one of the FTTP new builds nearby.

Is your current line via telegraph poles or underground?

__________________________________________________________
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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 21-Oct-20 13:49:17
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Hatfield Woodhouse is the handover exchange.

no way of knowing how much spine is in ground to the area, and even if it was there it is not fully paid for by the first user of it, but cost spread out. So even if for the new build they put in a big enough fibre bundle, the new build will have 'paid' its share of the costs.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User Swac3
(learned) Wed 21-Oct-20 13:51:26
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Its likely you are wrong as you say, the fact they ran fibre to the newbuilds likely doesnt bring a connection closer to you at all.

I understand this is cost related obviously, but it does make a mockery of statements from Openreach that use phrases like bringing fibre closer to you and expanding into rural areas, Well yes they are literally but it doesnt change or improve the connection situation for anyone else.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Wed 21-Oct-20 13:56:27
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi

My FTTC Cab is Cab3 around 800 m away.

The nearest FTTP I am aware of are near the airport ( some new build and some that appear to have been done alongside it as its all in one area ).

My current feed is DIG for some of its journey back so I suspect there will be a big bill for that too as all the houses are the same.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Wed 21-Oct-20 14:00:24
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Thanks for the explanation. I have checked a few other new build houses and they all show Hatfield Woodhouse as the exchange ( well its actually in Dunscroft but was called that for some reason ! )

I am hoping to get a bit more detail from the Rural Engagement manager and see whether expanding the footprint would bring the cost per property down or not.

Given this cost is after the BT contribution it must have been a fair figure !!

Thanks
Standard User slimj
(member) Wed 21-Oct-20 14:11:59
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Watching with interest as I have opened up a CFP project for my area of 10 addresses - Agg node estimated to be 1km - 1.5km away (think I know roughly where it may be as cables were being run from there last year for a village near me). We're in rural Kent so can get up to £7k per household in vouchers if we're under 30Mbps, which we are.

Looks like Doncaster has a lot of FTTP already, so I can imagine that your area will be covered sooner rather than later?
Standard User tikka69
(member) Wed 21-Oct-20 14:20:27
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Yeah there is quite a lot going off in Doncaster, BT FTTP through large areas, Cityfibre going through parts of it and Virgin Media have done both the big villages either side of us ( Rossington / Armthorpe ).

The FTTP through Cantley / Branton came right up the river then stopped at the edge of the village as that is the boundary for the Exchange ( that is fed from Cantley I presume ).

The rest of Auckley, Blaxton and Finningley are historically under Finningley exchange and they have only done newbuilds onto FTTP at the minute ( and a single street that had no FTTC cabinet ).

Thanks
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 21-Oct-20 16:27:33
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tikka69:
My current feed is DIG for some of its journey back so I suspect there will be a big bill for that too as all the houses are the same.
Several members have posted on here that their lines arrive as DIG and have been left off of local commercial FTTP deployments and its been indicated that it may be due to the extra costs.
Standard User haydnwalker
(newbie) Wed 21-Oct-20 19:32:35
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
I'm in Armthorpe and get my VM installed tomorrow.

I was hoping our village (small town really) would get FTTP as part of SFSY but it appears we aren't being included hence my move to Virgin Media as my FTTC connection has become less and less stable in the 5 years of having it.

I do hope you do get somewhere with your CFP because Openreach don't seem to be too bothered about anywhere outside of Doncaster central.

I'm not convinced that CityFibres network is going to be available to residential areas either (lots of central Doncaster has had access to CityFibres dark fibre for a while. now)

Regards,
Haydn
Standard User Highland76
(committed) Wed 21-Oct-20 19:58:32
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: haydnwalker] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by haydnwalker:
I'm not convinced that CityFibres network is going to be available to residential areas either (lots of central Doncaster has had access to CityFibres dark fibre for a while. now)


Cityfibre will cover both residential & business premises in Doncaster, making use of their dark fibre where necessary. For obvious reasons not every single home & business will be covered, they usually aim for around 80% coverage in each of their Gigabit cities.

TalkTalk Business Fibre 900 -- Netgear RAX200

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User haydnwalker
(newbie) Thu 22-Oct-20 11:01:44
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: Highland76] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the Info Highland76 - I stand corrected smile

Regards,
Haydn
Standard User tikka69
(member) Fri 23-Oct-20 10:11:50
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Hi All

Just an update, I have spoken to the Openreach contact and had a really good long chat, he was very helpful and we have been through several options to making this more feasible.

One of the main ideas now is to expand the original footprint and get an estimate based on the potentially the whole village as there are large areas of it that are fed by pole which would mean potentially a lot lower cost per premise.

If all the village are eligable for vouchers then it could bring the average cost down for areas like mine and hopefully more feasible.

We did also discuss the "demand led" type schemes, this may also kick in if we decided to try and enable the whole village as a project rather than just a small part of it.

Anyway, I will keep people posted on progress. I am glad to say it was a very helpful call with Openreach and they seemed to be helping as much as possible,

Thanks

T69
Standard User slimj
(committed) Fri 23-Oct-20 11:15:53
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Great news. Would be interested to hear about your progress.

May I ask how long it took for Openreach to come back to you with an initial estimate? Think I read to allow 3 or more weeks. I'm just eager to get more details to share with neighbours (3 out of 10 addresses confirmed solid interest so far!).
Standard User tikka69
(member) Sun 01-Nov-20 11:21:34
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Hi Slimj

Just short of 3 weeks for them to email me back.

Its not showing on my portal though but they have opened that up again so I can expand the footprint further.

I know someone mentioned before about adding in houses before you have confirmation of if they are interested to get an ideal of the quote for the work. The guy from OR said there was no problem with this at all and if can give you an idea of the cost before you start with the hard work door knocking.

So, thats what I am doing now, going through getting the address list for the whole village and dropping the lot in and then emailing him for a revised quote to be produced to see if its feasible.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks
Standard User slimj
(committed) Mon 02-Nov-20 09:48:12
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tikka69:
Just short of 3 weeks for them to email me back.

I know someone mentioned before about adding in houses before you have confirmation of if they are interested to get an ideal of the quote for the work. The guy from OR said there was no problem with this at all and if can give you an idea of the cost before you start with the hard work door knocking.


Thanks. It's been 3 weeks now for me, so assume I will hear further details very shortly!

I added the 10 address in for my area before speaking with the neighbours - I dropped letters in with everyone after submitting the data to Openreach. I've had positive responses from 5 addresses now (plus my direct neighbour, who doesn't have internet who I will persuade nicely in order to get the the extra voucher if required!) and they are pleased that someone has taken the initiative, once I have the ball park figures then I can speak to each house.

I had a desktop quote for FTTPoD of around £15k and I'm at the furthest point out of the 10 addresses, it's likely we'd need 2 or 3 CBTs to cover the 10 addresses, but joint boxes are already in the right places from a previous cable run from June 2019 so could probably be used - ducts should also be clear. Hoping the ballpark costs are 'reasonable' based on the above and that £35k in vouchers covers it all!
Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Nov-20 10:25:03
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by slimj:
(plus my direct neighbour, who doesn't have internet who I will persuade nicely in order to get the the extra voucher if required!)


I presume that also means you'll pay for 12 months of FTTP service for them? By taking out the voucher, they are contractually required to take service.

The cheapest option I know is Aquiss. Their service has a 12-month contract, which will cost a total of £360 (40/2) or £408 (80/20).

Vouchers generally require a "step change" doubling of speed, so the 40M option only works if the previously available speed was less than 20M.

(EDIT: if they currently have a BT phone line, then you could pay the difference between their current service and BT Fibre 1 or 2. However that would require a 24 month contract, so could work out just as expensive. Also in 2 years time they may find it difficult to "downgrade" back to a standard PSTN service).

Edited by candlerb (Mon 02-Nov-20 10:36:21)

Standard User slimj
(committed) Mon 02-Nov-20 11:47:10
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
I presume that also means you'll pay for 12 months of FTTP service for them? By taking out the voucher, they are contractually required to take service.


Correct. And this is something I will discuss with them if the need arises (hoping it won't be required).

The 6 address fed from our pole are all on around 20Mbps/1Mbps (if lucky), so a 40 or 80Mbps package will suffice for all of us. Depending on pricing at the time, I'd probably opt for 80Mbps (or perhaps 160Mbps) as I don't really have much need for anything faster at the current time.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Wed 11-Nov-20 12:18:08
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Just an update from my side, I went ahead and have now added in the entire village of Auckley, excluding some streets up near the airport as to be honest that would just be too much to deal with.

There are now over 700 premises showing in the portal which are fed from 2 cabinets at present, the plan is then once I get the initial estimate back ( assuming its not millions ! ) is to then stir up interest via the local village facebook group and tell people all about it, in as simple terms as possible and if enough interest is shown maybe turn this into a demand led scheme with Openreach.

Large parts of the village are fed by pole so I am hoping the cost per premise will come down if a lot and offset the parts that are currently DIG and will need ducting, etc. The only issue might be convincing the people who are near the cabinets who get 70mb+ at present to upgrade to a 150mb fttp service.

From what I can tell all of the area is eligable for rural vouchers so I will keep people posted on how it goes !!
Standard User craski
(committed) Wed 11-Nov-20 14:20:56
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
On a related note, I submitted a CFP quote request and 12 weeks later I've not heard a peep back from CFP. I've read about several people getting good prompt responses from CFP but it isnt always the case it appears.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
Standard User slimj
(committed) Mon 16-Nov-20 11:36:21
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
An update from my side. Expanded from 10 addresses to 58 covering some of the local village (assume this is where the cables will run from). Costs are showing as £45k which is viable.

With enough interest in our little hamlet (5 addresses so far), the costs should be covered with the £7,000 grants + whatever other interest we can get from the local village with the £1,500 per residential property and £3,500 per business property (unfortunately they will be a harder sell as most addresses can get 40-60Mbps+ already).

Just awaiting clarification on a few points and that the following...

"Your project qualifies for a newer approach we are taking, which means less work for you as a community lead and there will be no contract to sign"


...was stated in the email which leads me to believe there is no commitment required.
Standard User Dean83
(learned) Mon 16-Nov-20 12:20:05
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Hi tikka69,

i used to live on hawthorn road, which for some reason has about 8 properties that were enabled for FTTP in the SFSY roll out a few years ago , even though they were a stones throw from the cab and could get full 80/20. my property at that time was not one of these 8.

I submitted a CFP enquiry for the rest of the street back in 2018 as i was curious ( about 40 ish houses ) and the quote at that time came back at £156,000! when i mentioned to them that some of the street already had FTTP this price dropped to £56,000.

i was wondering - which streets 'near the airport' have been omitted - is it the persimmon estate near the railway crossing ?


im now on the new estate near the airport, which in phase 2 of the development was all FTTP only, and most of phase 1 has now had FTTP enabled bar a few properties.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Mon 16-Nov-20 12:37:23
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: Dean83] [link to this post]
 
Hi Dean

Are these the new properties at the end of Hawthorne Road that were built that have it ?

I have seen from the TBB maps it showing there and also on the new houses nearer the lights ( Lancater Court I think its called ).

I had assumed that as these builds were more than a certain number BT had to go straight to fibre.

When I have been in contact with BT OR about this the original estimate came back at 200k for my street and another as we were going to keep it small originally. The closest FTTP to where I live are the few houses on Gatewood Lane that were also put onto FTTP for some reason, I presumed they were maybe EO lines and had no DSLAM to go back to.

Anyway, we are now looking at a revised quote which will include all of the "old" village side, i.e all this side of the the railway lines. The only reason I have done this is as this is now at over 700 premises and I suspect if I had included the rest of the houses the other side of the railway line we would be over a 1000, which I think would just be too much for one person to take on.

Once I get the quote back for this and see if its feasible I will quite happily work with someone from that side of the village if they want to add it on. Do be honest there is also a chance BT might include the lot in when the quote comes back too so it might end up being included.

As a lot of the village is pole fed I am hoping this will bring the cost per premise down and offset some of the higher cost areas that will require dig/trunking work.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Mon 16-Nov-20 12:39:45
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Hi

It sounds like your CFP is going to be picked up by OR as a demand led scheme where they pick up the risk here and you dont need to setup a company entity to deal with them.

They will also lead the marketing side ( leaflets, etc ) and they setup a website so people can submit there vouchers directly to OR and have a display of the numbers required to hit the target, etc

Takes all the pain away for you !!

smile
Standard User Dean83
(learned) Mon 16-Nov-20 22:27:20
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

The new properties were built well before the fibre role out . The fttp that was fitted served 3 of these 14 new houses , and then some of the existing older raf houses on hawthorn road - despite being served by the fttc cabinet .

I assume it’s because they took the fibre up the pole to span it across the road to serve some other properties on a different cabinet .

Lancaster court is about 8 houses, connected to a cabinet that primarily served business properties so fttp was preferred by SFSY .

The other set of RAF houses ( which were fed via the fibre from the hawthorn road pole ) were served by a cabinet that sits on the airport land . I believe a wayleave for a fttc cabinet was not approved , as the airport industrial estate have their own private fibre network And they didn’t want to approve some competition on their land .

Edited by Dean83 (Mon 16-Nov-20 22:47:40)

Standard User Dean83
(learned) Mon 16-Nov-20 22:28:03
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Best of luck with your campaign - sounds like you have done a great job . Fingers crossed
Standard User tikka69
(member) Tue 17-Nov-20 11:50:50
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: Dean83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Dean,its going to be a long slog but hopefully with a good tail wind we might get somewhere !!
Standard User Jabes
(member) Tue 17-Nov-20 13:08:09
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Feels like the early days of ADSL - door knocking and registering interest smile
Standard User slimj
(committed) Tue 17-Nov-20 14:28:04
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: Jabes] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jabes:
Feels like the early days of ADSL - door knocking and registering interest smile


I remember those days! I took action for our local exchange and built a website to register interest etc. When ADSL finally came we were so far from the exchange we couldn't get a stable connection! Typical.
Standard User slimj
(committed) Tue 17-Nov-20 14:38:48
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tikka69:
It sounds like your CFP is going to be picked up by OR as a demand led scheme where they pick up the risk here and you dont need to setup a company entity to deal with them.

They will also lead the marketing side ( leaflets, etc ) and they setup a website so people can submit there vouchers directly to OR and have a display of the numbers required to hit the target, etc

Takes all the pain away for you !!


Yes I am hoping this is the case, although the email wasn't very clear in explaining and the PDF with all the details seem to differ to the more personal email, hence the confusion.

Hopefully once this is all clarified I can give the go ahead then start rallying everyone in the catchment area.

Have mentioned what I am doing to the local Parish council and they seem keen (as I want to put a post on their village facebook page!) - however, the area included in the list are just a small portion of the village and the majority of the village can already gain pretty much full FTTC speeds. There are a few postcodes on the other side of the village that are still sub 10Mbps, but they're quite a way outside the catchment area of this CFP project so I can imagine expanding the project to cover these (including the whole village basically!) would probably increase costs substantially and make it more difficult to manage! I guess it may make sense for someone over that side of the village to look at a separate CFP project - I'll have to ask the CFP manager to see what he suggests is the best way forwards.
Standard User tikka69
(member) Thu 19-Nov-20 09:46:21
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Hi slimj

I spoke to my Rural Engagement Manager yesterday as the cost to cover the whole village (750+) is only coming back at just over double what we were being quoted originally for 50 houses.

Also it might potentially be turned into a demand led scheme also with OR due to the scale of it now, just waiting to hear back that its got the green light, should know in a week or so.

Fingers crossed !!
Standard User slimj
(committed) Thu 19-Nov-20 11:45:15
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Re: CFP intial estimate received


[re: tikka69] [link to this post]
 
Interesting thanks. Our village is around 250 addresses + a primary school + static caravan holiday park. So this CFP is just targeting a small portion of this village (90% of the village will likely be getting 50Mbps+).

Our REO confirmed that it was going to be a demand led as suggested. Just awaiting final price and design now. I guess it's just a waiting game at the moment but I will start reaching out to the community once I have our final figure to see if we can drum up some interest.
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