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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 09:36:27
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small fibre companies


[link to this post]
 
As you may or may not know we are getting fibre in our small city in 2021/2022 by a company called Zzoomm, I have never heard of them before, and they are only in one other place and that is Henley-on-Thames. i noticed on the news page of this site of other small fibre providers, like County Broadband and Trooli. I was chatting to a mate last night, and we started talking about fibre and these small companies.
Now with the BT network, be it fibre, FTTC or ADSL even, if a provider you are with went belly up, it would not be a huge problem, it is still a problem but not a huge problem as the network is owned by BT, you just have to find yourself another provider.

If one of these smaller networks went belly up what would happen then? I know they may be kept going for a while until they find a buyer, but what if they don't find a buyer?

Then there is reliability, will they have the resources to cope if things go wrong?

My mate has better speed on FTTC than I have as he can go out of his front door and see the cabinet, so he is thinking the same as me, is it worth changing to Fibre?

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 10:29:30
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
You can look back at the old Wireless networks that were setup to get an idea of what could happen. A number of those ceased trading in the past and generally customers had to then go back to whatever else was available.

If nobody buys the company then your service would stop and you would have to go back to whatever is available. The government are always keen to encourage competitors like this but for the end customer it isn't always a benefit as they end up with only one choice which may be more expensive and could as you say cease trading for a variety of reasons. Whilst many don't like BT and Virgin having so much control there are benefits to large organisations running networks - especially as BT have to wholesale theirs to other providers.

In the end you probably need to look at the companies books on companies house. However, even if the company goes broke you should be able to return to FTTC and be no worse off than you are now. I wouldn't want to pay them loads of money up front for a service but if paying monthly then what do you lose compared to not signing up with them? You might be without broadband for a few weeks if the worst happened.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Nov-20 11:09:50
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
These small altnets are only going to get bigger by people signing up with them, as has already been said if they go under you can always go back to an ISP that uses the Openreach supported infrastructure. I don't know much about Zzoomm other than the ISP news here and on ISPReview.

Edited by dect (Tue 17-Nov-20 11:10:17)


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Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Nov-20 11:29:38
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
If nobody buys the company then your service would stop and you would have to go back to whatever is available.


That's true, so nothing is lost. But in practise, I think this is unlikely to happen.

A real network in the ground, and a paying customer base to go with it, are both assets. Someone is going to want to buy them to accelerate the growth of their own network, if the price is right - and the liquidator will always sell rather than write the asset off.

Certainly you can expect to see consolidation of smaller players into larger ones, and some of these small players will be expecting that to happen.
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Tue 17-Nov-20 11:42:50
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
even if the company goes broke you should be able to return to FTTC

except that a lot of the altnets are building in areas that don't have FTTC (e.g. Gigaclear). In those areas there is no OR superfast solution to fall back on. I do expect some altnets may fail, just what will happen remains to be seen...
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 17-Nov-20 11:57:09
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
There are so many springing up that it's almost certain many hope to be bought out in a few years . Will be a bit like the cable companies but perhaps without such huge debts.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 12:05:03
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I remember what it was like with a wireless network as I was with one for two years, but it did not go belly up, well not when i was with them, I left because the service they gave towards the end was pretty naff, they did not have the bandwidth to cope. I went to plusnet as by that time FTTC was here, but i did know someone who was still with the Wireless network when they stopped the service, the company itself is still going, but their market is payment systems, not broadband.
It was not a huge problem to change for them, but then the old ADSL system was still in place. I think now they have got FTTC.

i would not pay money up front, done that with Allpay wireless, not that It was a big amount, but still annoying considering the service only lasted for a couple of years.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 12:32:09
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
These small altnets are only going to get bigger by people signing up with them, as has already been said if they go under you can always go back to an ISP that uses the Openreach supported infrastructure. I don't know much about Zzoomm other than the ISP news here and on ISPReview.


I understand what you are saying, and they are all started from somewhere, and they have to build up their customers.
I am with plusnet for at least another 14 months anyway, my contract comes to the end in 2022, Myself I am not sure if I would want to go full fibre, well I suppose it depends on price. i have a good deal with plusnet at the moment and if they offer a good deal that is a fair bit below ZZOOMM price then i will stay with plusnet.
Zzoomm is £29 a month for the 100Mb/s according to their website, I am paying £23 a month for 35Mb/s with plusnet, may not seem a lot of difference, but it is £6 a month, ok, it may not seem a lot, but paying another £6 a month for something that is never going to be used to its full potential is a waste. I do that now with Netflix, which is why I am thinking of getting rid of it.
But if plusnet don't do me a decent deal i may change, depending on how much of a hassle it will be.

That is if I am still here and still have a job, lots of things can happen in 12 months, as this year have shwon.

Not much about Zzoomm on ISP review, apart from snippets of news, including them coming here.
Which is something I do not understand, why here?

My mate whom I was chatting to last night seems to think they have been given a load of money to come here. For what he pays for his broadband, which is 30 odd quid then for money alone going for Zzoom would be better for him, also he has 3 people in the house.
We will see

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 12:34:16
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
In reply to a post by ian72:
even if the company goes broke you should be able to return to FTTC

except that a lot of the altnets are building in areas that don't have FTTC (e.g. Gigaclear). In those areas there is no OR superfast solution to fall back on. I do expect some altnets may fail, just what will happen remains to be seen...


FTTC is here in most parts if not all the city, so it would not be a problem. The one thing I do dread is when they start laying the fibre, the traffic is bad enough as it is, it will be worse when they start closing roads off.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 17-Nov-20 13:04:06
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
The number of places worth going where there either isnt already FTTP or planned to go live soon are getting fewer all the time.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 17-Nov-20 13:07:02
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Quite unusual to close roads off. Traffic disruption is minimal.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 13:32:36
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
I was referring to the specific case of the OP who does already have FTTC.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 13:35:42
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
The number of places worth going where there either isnt already FTTP or planned to go live soon are getting fewer all the time.
UK FTTP currently running at around 18% - are you saying that getting on for 82% of the country is not worth going to?
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Nov-20 14:19:29
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Hopefully by the time your Plusnet contract expires in 2022 you will have some feedback from others about Zzoomm and can make a decision based on service as well as price. Only you know if you need a faster connection and are prepared to pay more for it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Nov-20 14:45:33
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Poster did say or planned.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Dean83
(learned) Tue 17-Nov-20 15:58:07
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
the digital region project in south yorkshire in the early 2010's is a prime example of a failed independent fibre network.

this went belly up as it failed to gain subscribers - and was a nightmare for people to move of off due to no migration process for Sub LLU - remember the old days of 'tag on the line?'

many subscribers were left without internet for weeks, with some ordering a second line to get around the problem.

fortunately things have improved somewhat in terms of availability and migration provesses
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 17-Nov-20 16:11:35
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Poster did say or planned.

and "getting fewer all the time"
Standard User gary333
(experienced) Tue 17-Nov-20 16:46:40
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: Dean83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dean83:
the digital region project in south yorkshire in the early 2010's is a prime example of a failed independent fibre network.

this went belly up as it failed to gain subscribers - and was a nightmare for people to move of off due to no migration process for Sub LLU - remember the old days of 'tag on the line?'

many subscribers were left without internet for weeks, with some ordering a second line to get around the problem.

fortunately things have improved somewhat in terms of availability and migration provesses


They were told by many residents & interested groups that what they were planning was a white elephant, yet the big headed council bosses ignored all advise.

They should have rolled out FTTP as many of us suggested at the time. Even if this meant prioritising certain areas. All the DRL cabinets were ripped out years ago. However, I believe they did sell the ducting - although very little evidence of usage by whoever took it over (at least where I live) so at least some value could be potentially possible.

One massive waste of money though overall.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Nov-20 16:54:34
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
A real network in the ground, and a paying customer base to go with it, are both assets. Someone is going to want to buy them to accelerate the growth of their own network, if the price is right - and the liquidator will always sell rather than write the asset off.
Much of that was said to me before I signed up to a small fibre network. Another theory mentioned to me by another customer was that if necessary us customers could run the network ourselves.

Michael Chare
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 17:03:52
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Poster did say or planned.
They said "planned to go live soon" - now depends on the definition of soon...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 17-Nov-20 17:08:29
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
The number of places worth going where there either isnt already FTTP or planned to go live soon are getting fewer all the time.
There are a lot of new-build estates posted about on these forums where the developer has opted for an altnet to have exclusive access. If that network goes bust, an Openreach takeover would presumably be feasible, but not easy.

Having said that, the TalkTalk/Sky Fibre Nation business sold out to CityFibre, but that might have been fairly simple in the short term. Like the various mergers that led to VM Fibre. (Which IIRC is in fact NTL with a licence to use the name).

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 17:12:06
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I did wonder about potential Openreach takeover but presumably this would depend on what technology the fibre was rolled out with. If they don't use the same as Openreach then presumably it would be less likely for them to want to take it on as it would require different workforce skills and processes.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Nov-20 18:08:32
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
(Which IIRC is in fact NTL with a licence to use the name).


NTL and Telewest merged first, each of those bought up/merged with other tiny networks to become a duopoly. NTL bought C&W ConsumerCo, which made them larger than Telewest.

NTL:Telewest then renamed itself to Virgin Media after the purchase of Virgin Mobile.

I understand all Virgin branded companies rent the Virgin part of the name from Virgin Enterprises for an annual fee, but VM's fee was low due to them buying mobile (if that deal has not expired).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Tue 17-Nov-20 18:09:24)

Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Tue 17-Nov-20 18:22:13
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
When reviewing the money-making opportunities that the owner of the Virgin brand-name accrues, readers may consider this link helpful.

Edited by GonePostal (Tue 17-Nov-20 18:25:34)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Nov-20 08:50:55
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Quite unusual to close roads off. Traffic disruption is minimal.


I suppose they will use the BT ducts, depending on how many are still viable and not caved in.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Nov-20 09:03:56
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
Hopefully by the time your Plusnet contract expires in 2022 you will have some feedback from others about Zzoomm and can make a decision based on service as well as price. Only you know if you need a faster connection and are prepared to pay more for it.


I will keep looking to see if any reviews come from Henley.

To be honest I am fine with the speed I have got, it does what i need, I can watch 4K with no problem. The minor problem is uploading, but at the moment I do not do that very often, nothing large anyway, but saying that the lowest service from Zzoomm will not make a scrap of difference as the upload speed is a measly 10Mb/s, to get uploads as fast as the download speed is another tenner a month, which I think is a bit steep to be honest, for that you may as well go to the next tier and get 400Mb/s download, ok you still only get 40Mb/s upload, but it is better than 10.

What I do depends on plusnet, the problems I can not really be bothered with the hassle, I hate people coming in here unless they are friends and family and digging things up.
i have seen a video and it seems like they don't bury the cable much, just below the surface, i have a bit of a garden, like a small strip going down the side of my steps, they could put the fibre there, but they will still have to dig a small trench across the base of the steps to put the box on the side of the house.

at least I have a few months to think about things.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Nov-20 09:08:59
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Re: small fibre companies


[re: Dean83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dean83:
the digital region project in south yorkshire in the early 2010's is a prime example of a failed independent fibre network.

this went belly up as it failed to gain subscribers - and was a nightmare for people to move of off due to no migration process for Sub LLU - remember the old days of 'tag on the line?'

many subscribers were left without internet for weeks, with some ordering a second line to get around the problem.

fortunately things have improved somewhat in terms of availability and migration provesses


This is the problem, certainly here in Hereford, people take a while before they change to new things. I think FTTC took a while to get going here as people seemed to be fine with ADSL, certainly those close to the exchange. i know a load of people who stayed with ADSL for a fair while, sometimes a couple of years after FTTC came here. Most of them changed when I told them the advantage of it compared to ADSL.

if this Fibre don't get the amount of people they need to keep going then they will go belly up pretty quickly, certainly if it is true that BT is also doing fibre here at some point. There are still people here, my next door neighbour for one who will not change from BT, always had BT, so always will have BT, because .

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
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