Openreach Max 330 but TalkTalk 900?

Hey,

I've had FTTP for quite some time and the openreach checker has always shown 330 is my max (and the rest of the houses in this estate on the same exchange). I assumed i was one of the unlucky ones on ECI headends.

Before i went with Zen, i had enquired with TalkTalk business (i run my business from home). TalkTalk told me they weren't available with FTTP in my area yet.

However, i had a call yesterday from TalkTalk and they were able to offer me all 6 packages, so of course i went with 900/115.

I did try to ask how they're offering higher speeds than the OpenReach ADSL checker, to which they told me that their network doesn't use all of the same parts of the OpenReach ones so are able to offer better speeds in this occasion. Though this answer seemed to be made up on the spot.

I'm a little bit baffled, how can Zen & BT not offer 900/115 yet TalkTalk can? Do they use different equipment at the exchange? I assumed they were just "renting" parts of the OpenReach network.

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Dec-20 08:22:36)

It's possible that other providers have limited cross-connect capacity at your head-end exchange, and choose not to offer anything faster than 330.

However that wouldn't explain why the *Openreach* checker says only 330 available. Do you actually mean Openreach, or BT Wholesale?

It's also not impossible that Talktalk have made a mistake, but you'll find out when it's delivered.

Yeah - sorry i meant BT Wholesale ADSL Checker. I guess i'll just wait and see. Is there any possible way to confirm the ECI restriction without physically being in the exchange?

Dont talk talk have access to other fibre networks in some areas, not just openreach?

They do, and that is the question, is the poster from York or Dewsbury

https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

Sadly not, South Wales, Blackwood - Exchange (SWBIG).

Just checking BT's site and they have a 900 package available for my postcode BUT if you call them and try and order it, they said its a mistake on their website. Which i find really odd.

Also, there's a brand new estate close to me, they heavily advertised gigabit capable homes. Though checking their postcodes, they're connected to an exchange (SWNBI) which is almost 3x the distance from mine, and all homes around it are connected to SWBIG as well.

Seems to me the exchange isn't capable, maybe TalkTalk have made the mistake somehow. I'm hoping not though

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Dec-20 10:07:00)

Im in same position stuck on 330 max on OR FTTP via BT. Really dont understand it, it was newly installed (in road) in Feb this year, all other FTTP around here done end last year and a few years ago is 1000, im just waiting to see another chunk to go live in village to see what theirs say before I whinge a bit more.

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Also, there's a brand new estate close to me, they heavily advertised gigabit capable homes. Though checking their postcodes, they're connected to an exchange (SWNBI) which is almost 3x the distance from mine, and all homes around it are connected to SWBIG as well.

If those new homes have fibre only, then the checker will show the handover exchange where the fibre terminates.

If your home has both copper and fibre, then the checker will show your local exchange. However your fibre almost certainly terminates on the more distant handover exchange.

When copper is eventually retired, many of the local exchanges will close.

I never knew that, useful to know. The handover exchange in this case is significantly smaller in size, interesting that it's not the other way around.

The FTTP in my area only went live ~6 months ago. As far as i can tell, anyone connected to SWBIG. (my exchange) has 330. Anyone on the handover exchange (SWNBI) has 1000. Curious where the bottleneck is there.

I do still technically have a copper line although not in use. I have a data-only service.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

If your home has both copper and fibre, then the checker will show your local exchange. However your fibre almost certainly terminates on the more distant handover exchange.

I think i've proven this theory today.

We've had a FTTP outage at the exchange, though the exchange with the outage isn't SWBIG its SWNBI which would be the handover exchange as you mentioned

Here. is the issue if anyone cares.

I've ordered my 900 line and it's being installed on the 22nd of Jan 2021. Wait and see if i actually get that service installed.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Jan-21 10:48:20)

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

I think i've proven this theory today.

It's not a theory but a known fact.

VDSL, G.Fast and FTTP always goes to the local handover exchange

From your previous post.

The FTTP in my area only went live ~6 months ago. As far as i can tell, anyone connected to SWBIG. (my exchange) has 330. Anyone on the handover exchange (SWNBI) has 1000. Curious where the bottleneck is there.

I can see a number of addresses on SWBIG that can order 1000Mb.

If SWNBI is the handover, then the FTTP for everyone on SWBIG goes straight to SWNBI.
It never touches SWBIG
The fact it originates on SWBIG's patch matters not and isn't what limits some properties to 330Mb.

There are numerous reasons why some properties can only order 330 and others can order 1000.
ECI OLT's, lack of 10Gb cablelinks, insufficient backhaul capacity to just simple database inaccuracies are just a few of the reasons.

So useful! Thank you for that.

Can i ask how you check what addresses can order what? My method was literally typing in random post codes into ADSL Address Checker.

I still don't fully understand what possible reasons are for me being able to order different speeds from different providers i.e. 330 on BT/Zen but 900 on TalkTalk. I assume they use the same network?

I use the ThinkBroadband coverage maps to find local addresses with FTTP.

I then use https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL to see what's available to each address.

The very 1st address I checked on that exchange (NP12 1EL) had access to 1000/220.

I still don't fully understand what possible reasons are for me being able to order different speeds from different providers i.e. 330 on BT/Zen but 900 on TalkTalk. I assume they use the same network?

Nope.
They have their own GEA cablelinks that link from the FTTP equipment to their backhaul network.
Beyond the exchange they are separate.

BTWholesale may be congested or may have some older 1Gb cablelinks.

It might just be a database problem. Zen can use Talktalk's backhaul so should be able to provide the 900Mb package if Talktalk can.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 05-Jan-21 15:16:55)

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Yeah - sorry i meant BT Wholesale ADSL Checker. I guess i'll just wait and see. Is there any possible way to confirm the ECI restriction without physically being in the exchange?

I’m confused by this myself. My friend has been able to order 900Mb from BT, being installed on Friday. However I’ve been into his exchange recently and the headend is still an ECI one.

If there’s also a Huawei one in there now I can’t find it and it’s not a huge exchange. Any idea Zarjaz.

Edited by _Icaras_ (Wed 06-Jan-21 22:40:54)

Out of curiosity, how did you manage to get in the exchange?

Let me know what happens on the install day if you can!!

In reply to a post by _Icaras_:

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Yeah - sorry i meant BT Wholesale ADSL Checker. I guess i'll just wait and see. Is there any possible way to confirm the ECI restriction without physically being in the exchange?

I’m confused by this myself. My friend has been able to order 900Mb from BT, being installed on Friday. However I’ve been into his exchange recently and the headend is still an ECI one.

If there’s also a Huawei one in there now I can’t find it and it’s not a huge exchange. Any idea Zarjaz.

If the exchange has any Huawei DSLAM's then it has a Huawei OLT.

Given almost every single BDUK cabinet was a Huawei and they stopped deploying ECI cabinets in 2016, there's very very few (or even none) exchanges with just an ECI OLT.

Name the exchange and it's easily checked.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 07-Jan-21 02:29:20)

Out of curiosity if an area has ECI and Huawei FTTC DSLAM's and Nokia G.fast pods does it mean it would have all three types of OLT in the headend exchange?

In reply to a post by dect:

Out of curiosity if an area has ECI and Huawei FTTC DSLAM's and Nokia G.fast pods does it mean it would have all three types of OLT in the headend exchange?

Probably yes.
That may not be a deployment method/mix f Vendors used though.
They may only have used Nokia where there is no ECI for example.
No idea to be honest.

Areas with Nokia G.Fast will be areas where Nokia has been planned to do the FTTP rollout also.

I know of exchanges with an ECI OLT and 2 Huawei OLT's, so at least 3 OLT's.

Technically no reason why they can't have 3 different OLT Vendors.

ADTRAN will be added to the mix soon.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

ADTRAN will be added to the mix soon.

Will be interesting to see what ONT they make available to Openreach, the ones from the other two providers look very similar to each other.

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Jan-21 10:59:34)

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Out of curiosity, how did you manage to get in the exchange?

Well I wouldn’t be so daft as to reveal my employer on a forum but I’m sure you can guess! It isn’t Openreach though....

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by _Icaras_:

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Yeah - sorry i meant BT Wholesale ADSL Checker. I guess i'll just wait and see. Is there any possible way to confirm the ECI restriction without physically being in the exchange?

I’m confused by this myself. My friend has been able to order 900Mb from BT, being installed on Friday. However I’ve been into his exchange recently and the headend is still an ECI one.

If there’s also a Huawei one in there now I can’t find it and it’s not a huge exchange. Any idea Zarjaz.

If the exchange has any Huawei DSLAM's then it has a Huawei OLT.

Given almost every single BDUK cabinet was a Huawei and they stopped deploying ECI cabinets in 2016, there's very very few (or even none) exchanges with just an ECI OLT.

Name the exchange and it's easily checked.

So it can have both? I didn’t know that. I find the ECI headends quite easy to spot but to be honest I wouldn’t know what the Huawei ones look like. I’d rather not name the exchange, but thanks anyway you’ve cleared that up.

Edited by _Icaras_ (Fri 08-Jan-21 09:16:10)

In reply to a post by Lukesitewalker:

Let me know what happens on the install day if you can!!

Install went ahead successfully by a Quinn’s contractor. The router is showing 1Gb up and down. But throughput is more like 450Mb which is disappointing.

He will probably report it as a fault in a week or so.

Just thought i'd post an update.

FTTP from TalkTalk got installed today. Installed a completely new/separate line + ONT. Little disappointed in a way they couldn't re-use the line but replace with a 4 port ONT. Upside is i get a bit more redundancy in one way. Downside is the other half not so happy having 2 grey boxes on the wall outside.

Getting the full 900/110. Very pleased!

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by _Icaras_:

In reply to a post by lloydowen:

Yeah - sorry i meant BT Wholesale ADSL Checker. I guess i'll just wait and see. Is there any possible way to confirm the ECI restriction without physically being in the exchange?

I’m confused by this myself. My friend has been able to order 900Mb from BT, being installed on Friday. However I’ve been into his exchange recently and the headend is still an ECI one.

If there’s also a Huawei one in there now I can’t find it and it’s not a huge exchange. Any idea Zarjaz.

If the exchange has any Huawei DSLAM's then it has a Huawei OLT.

Given almost every single BDUK cabinet was a Huawei and they stopped deploying ECI cabinets in 2016, there's very very few (or even none) exchanges with just an ECI OLT.

Name the exchange and it's easily checked.

John, can I hijack this thread slightly and ask how to check what headend is in an exchange or is it something you need to be "in the trade" to ascertain? My phone is from Walcott echange in Norfolk but I dont know where the FTTP is connected to. I suspect I am connected to ECI kit as the checkers only go up to 300 for me.