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Standard User techguy
(experienced) Sat 12-Dec-20 14:21:35
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BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[link to this post]
 
I'm starting to see FTTP offers for 150 Mbps for a couple of pence under 40 quid a month.

I appreciate as copper starts to be phased out the prices will of course drop but does anyone know if this happening already (as in the prices charged to ISPs)?

Wondering if I can open a freiendly haggle with Zen in the New Year.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen => Freeola => Vivaciti (using O2 Wholesale DSL) => Xilo (C&W Wholesale) => Xilo (O2 Wholesale) => Xilo (TT Wholesale due to O2 Wholesale closure) => Zen LLU =>> ZeN FTTP (100 Mbps down, 18 Mbps up)
Router: Fritzbox 7530


Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 12-Dec-20 14:34:24
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
It's probably just ISP offers.

I'm paying £30/month for 160/30 on BT FTTP and have been for months.

BT Wholesale do special offers for bulk order commitments.

Looks like the BT Wholesale WBC FTTP 160/30 price hasn't changed since 2017
Standard User flilot
(member) Sat 12-Dec-20 16:01:16
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
If you have a CityFibre network in your area, Zen will be selling products utilising that in the New Year. They hinted to me in a Facebook comment that the prices of said products will be comparable to Vodafone's Gigafast offering over the same network.

Carl
____________________________
vodafone Gigafast 100/100 | Calix 801Gv2 GigaPoint ONT | FRITZ!Box 7530 Router


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 12-Dec-20 16:25:21
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
BT Business is currently £49.95 which includes digital voice, fixed IP, rapid response, 4G backup service, enhanced support ... take out the individual cost of the additional items and the FTTP price is looking like £32-35/month plus VAT


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 12-Dec-20 16:52:46
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Which ISP? They may not be reliant on BT Wholesale for backhaul

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User techguy
(experienced) Sat 12-Dec-20 18:15:52
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Freeola

I did use them years ago, I know they are more a reseller and they weren't bad, can't remember whose services they actually resold though.

I do have Cityfibre here (they were actually working on the drive a few months back!) but am in a contract with Zen for 18 months (agreed to this in September to get the uplift to 100 Meg).

I'll keep an eye on Zen's site and see if there's any cost difference as it it's only a quid or two it's not worth the hassle of getting the ONT switched etc.

Zen are and have been terrific so I've no desire to switch away, just trying to save a bit of cash if I can but as you say, it sounds more of an ISP offer than an across the board reduction.

Thanks again all for taking the time to reply, it is very much appreciated.

Hope you all have a great Festive period.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen => Freeola => Vivaciti (using O2 Wholesale DSL) => Xilo (C&W Wholesale) => Xilo (O2 Wholesale) => Xilo (TT Wholesale due to O2 Wholesale closure) => Zen LLU =>> ZeN FTTP (100 Mbps down, 18 Mbps up)
Router: Fritzbox 7530


Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.

Edited by techguy (Sat 12-Dec-20 18:17:33)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 14-Dec-20 11:20:38
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
It is unlikely you are going to get much of an improvement on a deal you made with them in September - if you were near the end of your contract then your chances would be higher but trying to renegotiate with your ISP so early in the term is unlikely to yield much in the way of discounts.
Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 26-Dec-20 15:24:37
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techguy:
I'm starting to see FTTP offers for 150 Mbps for a couple of pence under 40 quid a month.

I appreciate as copper starts to be phased out the prices will of course drop but does anyone know if this happening already (as in the prices charged to ISPs)?

Wondering if I can open a freiendly haggle with Zen in the New Year.


Sky will do you 150/30 for £35. TalkTalk will do you 500/75 for £40 (they call it "Future Fibre")

There are various deals on BT which vary depending on which link you follow:
https://www.bt.com/broadband/deals
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre-240
https://www.bt.com/broadband/bristol
https://www.bt.com/products/affiliate-packages-broad...

The underlying prices from Openreach haven't changed for a while, but are only part of the cost: the ISP is also responsible for buying backhaul from the exchange to their POP, Internet transit, customer support and billing, paying the connection charge, and (usually) providing a router.

Zen position themselves at the premium end of the market, so you are paying proportionately more for network resilience, UK-based support, static IP/IPv6 etc.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 26-Dec-20 15:37:03
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techguy:
Freeola

I did use them years ago, I know they are more a reseller and they weren't bad, can't remember whose services they actually resold though.

I do have Cityfibre here (they were actually working on the drive a few months back!) but am in a contract with Zen for 18 months (agreed to this in September to get the uplift to 100 Meg).
IIRC they used to use Entanet then Daisy Telecoms. It could be their City Fibre service you are looking at. (From Daisy's website):
Our relationships with BT, Virgin Media Business, Gamma, Mitel, Vodafone, City Fibre, O2, EE and more mean our customers get a wide variety of choice of service depending on price, business needs and coverage within their area.


__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
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Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Sat 20-Feb-21 16:58:24
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by techguy:
I'm starting to see FTTP offers for 150 Mbps for a couple of pence under 40 quid a month.

I appreciate as copper starts to be phased out the prices will of course drop but does anyone know if this happening already (as in the prices charged to ISPs)?

Wondering if I can open a freiendly haggle with Zen in the New Year.


Sky will do you 150/30 for £35. TalkTalk will do you 500/75 for £40 (they call it "Future Fibre")

There are various deals on BT which vary depending on which link you follow:
https://www.bt.com/broadband/deals
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre-240
https://www.bt.com/broadband/bristol
https://www.bt.com/products/affiliate-packages-broad...

The underlying prices from Openreach haven't changed for a while, but are only part of the cost: the ISP is also responsible for buying backhaul from the exchange to their POP, Internet transit, customer support and billing, paying the connection charge, and (usually) providing a router.

Zen position themselves at the premium end of the market, so you are paying proportionately more for network resilience, UK-based support, static IP/IPv6 etc.


Hi candlerb, Intetesting results from your BT offer links, using the full-fibre-240 shows it is available for my address but when I spoke to BT they said that offer is only available for certain areas and not mine. I said that was strange as I could order it online and BT responded saying if I did my order would probably end up being cancelled. Do you know anything more about these links and shed any light on speific areas or do you think the offer would be honoured if I ordered online.
Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Feb-21 17:25:32
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I don't have any more info; these are just collected links that others have posted. I think someone said they'd used the "Bristol" one even though they weren't in Bristol. But you have to do the order online; these are not for when placing an order over the phone.

Check carefully the terms in each deal, e.g. whether a cashback card is included. Remember with BT you'll have in-contact price rises of at least 3.9% per year, and the price will go up at the end too unless you re-contract.
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Sat 20-Feb-21 19:56:55
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Sorry I don't have any more info; these are just collected links that others have posted. I think someone said they'd used the "Bristol" one even though they weren't in Bristol. But you have to do the order online; these are not for when placing an order over the phone.

Check carefully the terms in each deal, e.g. whether a cashback card is included. Remember with BT you'll have in-contact price rises of at least 3.9% per year, and the price will go up at the end too unless you re-contract.

Thanks, Yeh it is only that £240 off that makes it attractive otherwise Zen would be my preferred choice with fixed lifetime price. Can't help thinking BT are shooting themselves in the foot with their new pricing policy, people will vote with their feet unless they can negotiate big discounts when recontracting.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 21-Feb-21 01:54:18
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
They are honoured if you order online.

I got my 160/30 FTTP for £29.99 through the Bristol link and I'm near Edinburgh.
It places a normal order. All the BT customer service people see is that you're on a promotional offer.

It's not dodgy. Nowhere does it say the offer is limited to Bristol.
The page even says "See what special offers you can get where you live" and then offers those deals at any address.
Perfectly legit!
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Sun 21-Feb-21 20:03:59
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
They are honoured if you order online.

I got my 160/30 FTTP for £29.99 through the Bristol link and I'm near Edinburgh.
It places a normal order. All the BT customer service people see is that you're on a promotional offer.

It's not dodgy. Nowhere does it say the offer is limited to Bristol.
The page even says "See what special offers you can get where you live" and then offers those deals at any address.
Perfectly legit!


Thanks for that, it's nice to know the offer is honoured online. I'm still trying to decide between the BT offer and accept their annual price increases or going with Zen's fixed price for life (£9 more and slower speed 100Mb vs 150Mb) . Mind you with the £29.99 BT deal it would take a good few years before Zen becomes worthwhile. So on the face of it I should go with BT as I could always jump ship in the future but that's assuming FTTP doesn't generally become more expensive, at which point the Zen price might look cheap. Also switching FTTP needs to become seamless as I wouldn't want to loose my fibre port to sombody else whos been waiting if pirts become congested. Apparrently that could happen as FTTP becomes more popular. Sorry I'm waffelling now so thanks again for your reply, cheers.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sun 21-Feb-21 20:10:22
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
To my knowledge with FTTP once the ONT is registered with the OLT back in the exchange it remains as such, even if the subscribers service is deactivated. It’s not really like FTTC in that respect - PON ports are effectively virtual in the exchange, there isn’t any swap or disconnection as such.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 21-Feb-21 20:11:42
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ModemMan:
Also switching FTTP needs to become seamless as I wouldn't want to loose my fibre port to sombody else whos been waiting if pirts become congested. Apparrently that could happen as FTTP becomes more popular.


That's not the case. It doesn't work like FTTC, where you get physically patched to a port on a DSLAM card in the cabinet - and if there are not enough ports to go around, someone has to go without service.

With FTTP, up to 32 properties are *statically* connected to a splitter, which in turn has one *permanent* fibre connection to an OLT port in the headend exchange. Changing providers can never have the problem you described; it's always just a logical configuration at the exchange.
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Sun 21-Feb-21 22:17:48
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to you both, some interesting info there. I was thinking of the fibre manifold on our pole, there is an 8 port manifold which is probably enough but I assume FTTP uses one port per house so I could that be a point of congestion depending on how many houses would be relying on that pole.
Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 22-Feb-21 08:06:48
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ModemMan:
Thanks to you both, some interesting info there. I was thinking of the fibre manifold on our pole, there is an 8 port manifold which is probably enough but I assume FTTP uses one port per house so I could that be a point of congestion depending on how many houses would be relying on that pole.


You're right, it's one port per house. However, Openreach normally provision capacity at 100%-120% - which of course is necessary to support future withdrawal of the copper network. Even if you were in an unlikely location where they didn't, they're not going to climb a pole and unplug your connection just while you're changing ISP; and there's no "wait list" for waiting for a manifold port to become available. So you can sleep well smile
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Mon 22-Feb-21 09:02:08
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You're right, it's one port per house. However, Openreach normally provision capacity at 100%-120% - which of course is necessary to support future withdrawal of the copper network. Even if you were in an unlikely location where they didn't, they're not going to climb a pole and unplug your connection just while you're changing ISP; and there's no "wait list" for waiting for a manifold port to become available. So you can sleep well smile


Thanks, yes I was probably being a bit paranoid. I had read an article where ports on poles had all been used up and not enough capacity for all the houses. Looking back that report was referring to areas in London where some houses had been converted to flats and therefore exceeded the number of ports. I doubt if that will ever be a problem in mg rural area. There are some newly built houses across the road but they are supplied via underground ducting and they were already there when OR installed fiber in the area so hopefully accounted for.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Mon 22-Feb-21 09:44:01
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: ModemMan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ModemMan:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You're right, it's one port per house. However, Openreach normally provision capacity at 100%-120% - which of course is necessary to support future withdrawal of the copper network. Even if you were in an unlikely location where they didn't, they're not going to climb a pole and unplug your connection just while you're changing ISP; and there's no "wait list" for waiting for a manifold port to become available. So you can sleep well smile


Thanks, yes I was probably being a bit paranoid. I had read an article where ports on poles had all been used up and not enough capacity for all the houses. Looking back that report was referring to areas in London where some houses had been converted to flats and therefore exceeded the number of ports. I doubt if that will ever be a problem in mg rural area. There are some newly built houses across the road but they are supplied via underground ducting and they were already there when OR installed fiber in the area so hopefully accounted for.

This recent article by any chance?

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/02/an-unu...

Too much "pole load" referred to above

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User ModemMan
(regular) Mon 22-Feb-21 11:10:51
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Re: BTW FTTP wholesale cost on the way down?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
This recent article by any chance?

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/02/an-unu...

Too much "pole load" referred to above

Yup that's the one smile
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