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Hi,
I was activated on NOW TV Broadband this morning (using Sky network) and I initially connected at a sync speed of roughly 49000 - this translates into a real world speed test of around 44Mbps.
Around half hour later the router re-synced at 59442 however, the speed barely increased - to 47Mbps. The noise margin also decreased during this sync from around 6db to 3.3.
I understand that as this is a new connection (from Vodafone FTTC) that the DLM will need to kick in after a few days to enable g.inp.
But what's interesting is the fact it acted so quickly after the connection went live (noise margin - and why is there now a 13mb difference between the sync speed and actual speed when it should only be around 4-5Mbps.
Speeds are the same whatever time of day and using wired connection.
Thanks.
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Have you rebooted the hub since the sync speed increased? I've had similar happen with Sky's kit and a reboot fixed it.
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It takes a while for your IP profile to register the new stable sync speed.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Should not be the case on VDSL2 unless an ISP is using a mirror to traffic control and has not seen the update yet.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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As MrSaffron says.
Which IP Profile is that anyway? Although Openreach requires providers to limit data speeds hitting their DSLAMs, only BT Wholesale uses a method called "IP Profile".
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. |
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What speed did you connect at with Vodafone, on which product?
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. |
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Unless the OP lives in a Vodafone enabled exchange area, the connection for FTTC will be BT Wholesale based product and thus governed by an IP profile on the line.
I had issues with my Vodafone FTTC line on a BT exchange (only BT at the exchange) and the sync speed was 72mb, the throughput speed was 60mb for about 2 weeks, and then it began to increase towards the sync speed, hitting a maximum of 67mb.
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As I read things, the OP has just migrated from Vodafone to NowTV  .
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Dec-20 11:02:02)
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No migration involved, the OP says new connection from VF with service from NOW.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Need to highlight the inaccuracy in the statement
"Unless the OP lives in a Vodafone enabled exchange area, the connection for FTTC will be BT Wholesale based product"
Sky and TalkTalk have an extensive set of backhaul links from exchanges, and thus FTTC with them does not touch BT Wholesale products.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It depends how you read the opening post. I thought long and hard before deciding it was a migration.
If they are still on Vodafone the post makes no sense. The "activation" of NowTV would not have caused any change to anything.
The OP specifically says Sky network. Yes, you can watch NowTV on any network, but I am 95% sure I am right in believing it was a migration.
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. |
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If it's a migration then DLM remains active now.
There is no wait for it to come back, it never goes away.
The same goes for a DLM reset. G.INP remains active.
Did you definitely have G.INP with your old connection? Is it a migration or a new connection?
and why is there now a 13mb difference between the sync speed and actual speed when it should only be around 4-5Mbps.
Who says it should be 4-5Mb/s? Is that based on your experience or reading elsewhere?
DLM changes can change the gap between sync and throughput (considerably in some cases) by adding either Interleaving (ECI cabinets) or Retx High (Huawei cabinets).
There is no "should be" gap between sync and throughput.
Posting your full DSL starts would help.
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The OP also states: "I understand that as this is a new connection (from Vodafone FTTC) that the DLM will need to kick in after a few days to enable g.inp. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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That's a selective quote. Put it in context and to me it implicitly means "previously on"/"migrated from".
The first paragraph of the OP is, I believe, quite clear. "Using Sky network". Not NowTV access on any other ISP connection. The "from Vodafone" is, as I understand it, a simple informative but unnecessary statement of their previous connection.
NowTV broadband is only supplied over a Sky connection. They cannot be simultaneously on a Sky connection and a Vodafone one.
Only the OP will be able to tell us for certain.
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. |
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So on Vodafone, I was on a sync speed of 63 , this gave me a result of 57-58Mbps.
I was also on BT before Vodafone and I also had the exact speed on BT.
From my experience, there always seems to be a 5Mbpps difference in sync speed and real word speed tests, on my line anyway.
Also from my experience, when I connected to BT, I started at around 44Mbps then after 48 hours (when DLM took place) I was getting gradual speed increases every day up until the line settled and I was getting a speed test result of 58Mpbs.
The exchange is Vodafone enabled, and also Sky enabled. The switchover from Vodafone to NOW TV (Sky) happened really quick.
Disconnected at 12:30am, new router plugged in and was up and running. Didn't even have to wait until the morning so this was done remotely, therefore I guess it wasn't a new connection as such as there was no switch over at the cab, simply a migration.
What interesting and what I can't understand is why did my noise margin profile change within an hour of my new connection being established and the sync speed to also increase to 10Mpbs?
Also an update, last night around 1am, while I was using the PC I done another speedtest and the actual speed test is now 55.56Mbps - so it is now in line with the sync speed of 59Mbps. But there were no disconnections, no reboots. Almost like there was something on my network that was limiting it, but I went directly into the router with an ethernet cable on a laptop and desktop. Also using my mobile and all has the same result.
Be interesting to see what changes are made tonight.
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Sorry yes to be clear - I was on Vodafone Broadband and I switched TO NowTV.
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Formatting is off as don't think you can directly upload images?
System Up Time: 35:26:45
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collision Pkts Tx b/s Rx b/s Up Time
WAN MER 11681841 18421774 0 0 0 35:25:18
LAN Up 10080563 6541849 222 1 2 35:26:45
WLAN (2.4 GHz) Disable 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00
WLAN (5 GHz) Disable 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00
Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed (Kbps) 59442 16789
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:11.2 DS2:25.8 DS3:40.0 US0:3.9 US1:21.2 US2:32.0
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:3.3 DS2:3.3 DS3:3.3 US0:5.9 US1:6.0 US2:5.9
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Thanks for confirming that . As you can see, a couple of others got confused as to what you meant . It was a bit unclear in your OP. As I said to one of them, I thought long and hard before making up my mind.
Re the actual speed, although the "IP Profile" is a BT Wholesale construct, all FTTC providers are instructed by Openreach to ensure data does not reach the fibre cabinet at a speed above your sync speed. Any faster and the packets inevitably get lost, as Openreach cannot provide unknown amounts of buffering for the whole cabinet.
BTW do it by the IP Profile, a system they developed on ADSLx. Sky, TalkTalk and Vodafone in their non-BTW areas have to achieve the same effect but don't publicise the method as far as I know.
On FTTC the BTW IP Profile adjusts (effectively) immediately on a sync change.
As I don't think anyone has complained about Sky or TalkTalk under-performing after a speed increase, I expect theirs is also instantaneous. But it could be that there is a secondary profiling system occurring at the NowTV servers, and they are only notified of the new Sky speed at intervals. That is one way your delay might have happened.
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Dec-20 14:33:30)
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Interesting. Also Given the quick jump in sync speed after just being connected - and the noise margin decrease from 6.0db to 3.3, makes me think there wasn't any DLM reset in place?
Edited by iRED91 (Tue 15-Dec-20 14:43:06)
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Looks to me like you were previously on a 3dB target SNRM (noise margin) with Retx Low.
You have migrated. The DLM is reset and it puts you back to a 6dB target but it retains G.INP now.
The whole DSLAM was rebooted shortly after this and you resynced before crosstalkers (neighbouring lines that cause interference), at 6dB.
The crosstalkers then connected bringing your SNRM down to 3.3dB.
Either that or you have retained a 3dB target (which would be odd) and some noise during the 1st sync lowered the sync obtained.
Rebooting the Hub will let you know for definite.
If you are on a 6dB target then rebooting will lower the sync back to nearer 50Mb.
If you are on a 3dB target the line will sync back around where it is now.
As for why the throughput is so low i have no idea.
While only BT Wholesale publicly show an IP profile, all providers have their own version of this.
You could be on Retx High now which gives a lower throughput of around 91-92% of the sync speed.
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Could be possible that Sky make the changes to the sync profile then 24 hours later the changes are put into effect on the router. As the changes to the sync speed and speed test result took place the same time on Monday/Tuesday morning,
I do think g.inp has been removed as my ping has been increased slightly on the typical speedtest servers I use, oddly the ones closer are higher than the ones further away - although this could just be due to the route Sky's backhaul takes to these servers. However overall the ping is higher, not by allot but it's higher.
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The difference between G.INP and Low Interleaving is 8ms.
If the increase in ping is much less than this it's just different routing being used.
Every migration and DLM reset I've seen in the past couple months have retained G.INP.
G.INP is also required for a 3dB target if you are indeed on 3dB.
With a Broadcom modem with access to full stats (same goes for certain Lantiq modems) i could tell you in about 10 seconds what's going on.
Sky's modem had very limited stats so impossible to tell.
As mentioned above a reboot of the hub will tell the story.
If no reboot is done then the next resync should help tell what's going on.
Edit: Sky lines usually get full throughput straight after a sync charge.
Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 15-Dec-20 15:06:59)
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I think I'll leave it for a few more days and let it do it's thing. What to try and avoid rebooting if possible.
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I think I'll leave it for a few more days and let it do it's thing. What to try and avoid rebooting if possible.
Out of interest what's the latency difference you are seeing since the switch?
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Well a speedtest server literally over the road has increased from 8ms to 18, where as the London ones can vary from 8 previously on the majority of servers to 18-20 but some are as low as 6.
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As mentioned above Interleaving adds a minimum of 8ms latency (to everything beyond the DSLAM).
Anything pinging below 8ms tells you there's no Interleaving.
Previously lines that were reset went to an Interleaved profile.
Lines haven't defaulted to fastpath (no G.INP or Interleaving) for a couple years.
A recent change now means DLM retains G.INP on a DLM reset or switch.
G.INP would therefore appear to be active (as it should be).
Sky are likely just routing your line via London meaning the local speed test server is giving a much higher latency.
Having never used Sky or NowTV I'm not familiar with their routing.
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Makes sense. I'm happy with the performance, just for my knowledge really. Thanks for the new info about the changes to DLM.
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Eh, back down to 49000 after a sync last night
Connection Speed (Kbps) 49101 16718
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:11.2 DS2:25.9 DS3:40.0 US0:4.0 US1:21.3 US2:32.1
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:6.3 DS2:6.4 DS3:6.4 US0:5.9 US1:6.0 US2:6.1
starting to think there is a slight issue with noise.
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As i predicted above the 1st resync was the whole DSLAM (your fibre cabinet) rebooting so not your line causing it.
Your line is indeed on a 6dB target.
If it remains stable it should hopefully drop to a 5dB target in the next few days.
The resync today may also have been DLM related and not necessarily noise induced.
The ISP switch is using the exact same port on the cabinet and the exact same pair of wires to your home.
If you had no noise issues with sync on Vodafone you shouldn't have any new issues with NowTV.
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I agree.
__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. |
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