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Standard User johnankrett
(newbie) Sat 09-Jan-21 15:07:34
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
2. Make sure your anti virus is not impacting things, i.e. turn off temporarily or test from another device


Switched off Avast, and it improved download speed by about 50%. ie. from 45mb to 65mb (it cured the "slow start" syndrome and presumably more). We renewed our Avast "Premium" about the same time the fibre went in, and it must have defaulted to "everything" rather than the configured settings we were already using - and we didn't checkfrown Thanks for your help on this.

However, still not the 115mb we are paying for, so Zen got OR to try again. Went through the text to say they were coming yesterday / watch video / text them to confirm we had watched it routine again - and at the end of it there was a comment that they would only enter the premises if we had NO service. Not happy at that point as we obviously DID have service, but hey ho....

Nobody came yesterday, no phone calls from engineers, nothing.

Tried a speed test last night.... 65mb grrrr
then again this morning https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/16102024854... and...
bingo! 111mb!

Not only a higher effective speed but the graph shows (most of) the variation has gone away.

Got exited and ran test again.. 66mb again 88mb grrrrr

09-01-2021 14:52:38 (GMT) 88.5 Mbps 18.6 Mbps Zen Internet
09-01-2021 14:50:39 (GMT) 66.1 Mbps 15.8 Mbps Zen Internet
09-01-2021 14:28:36 (GMT) 106.0 Mbps 20.4 Mbps Zen Internet
09-01-2021 14:14:59 (GMT) 111.8 Mbps 21.6 Mbps Zen Internet
08-01-2021 20:16:56 (GMT) 69.0 Mbps 20.0 Mbps Zen Internet
08-01-2021 18:39:37 (GMT) 69.7 Mbps 19.9 Mbps Zen Internet
08-01-2021 18:38:51 (GMT) 65.6 Mbps 19.6 Mbps Zen Internet

This is on a decent HP laptop with Avast "File shield" and "Behaviour shield" and "Web shield" turned off, over a wired connection (all Cat8) with wifi turned off at the router.

Where do I go next?
Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Sun 10-Jan-21 13:48:01
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: johnankrett] [link to this post]
 
You could probably start by removing the Cat8 cables and replacing them with something that is actually supported by the equipment you are using. We have a classic case of the Dunning–Kruger effect in play here.

TL;DR Cat8 and Cat7 cables are only sold to the gullible and uninformed who think being a higher number makes them better. The reality is they are actually worse unless you are using CG45 or Terra connectors which I can absolutely guarantee you are not because there is no equipment available for purchase with them.

I strongly recommend using either Cat5e, Cat6 or Cat6a cables that are actually supported by an IEEE 802.3 standard.

Edited by jabuzzard (Sun 10-Jan-21 13:50:49)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-21 14:12:00
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: johnankrett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by johnankrett:
decent HP laptop with Avast "File shield" and "Behaviour shield" and "Web shield" turned off


Where do I go next?
My personal opinion is to backup the licence key, and then uninstall the Avast software and reboot. You could try booting from a Linux Live CD (or USB stick these days!) which would give you an operating system without any third party modifications.

As well as changing the cables. Have you connected directly to the ONT with a normal ethernet cable, that are typically available in the normal supermarkets.

Do you have access to any other computers with ethernet ports?

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM


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Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Sun 10-Jan-21 21:36:41
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by johnankrett:
decent HP laptop with Avast "File shield" and "Behaviour shield" and "Web shield" turned off


Where do I go next?
My personal opinion is to backup the licence key, and then uninstall the Avast software and reboot. You could try booting from a Linux Live CD (or USB stick these days!) which would give you an operating system without any third party modifications.

As well as changing the cables. Have you connected directly to the ONT with a normal ethernet cable, that are typically available in the normal supermarkets.

Do you have access to any other computers with ethernet ports?


The Dunning–Kruger is large here, they are using Cat8 Ethernet cables smile
Standard User johnankrett
(newbie) Wed 13-Jan-21 18:48:26
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
As well as changing the cables. Have you connected directly to the ONT with a normal ethernet cable, that are typically available in the normal supermarkets. Yes (with the help of ZEN support), got same result. Tried one old Cat 5e cable and two new Cat8 cables from different manufacturers.

Do you have access to any other computers with ethernet ports? Yes, got same result


What is the issue with Cat8 cables?
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 13-Jan-21 18:58:35
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: johnankrett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by johnankrett:
What is the issue with Cat8 cables?
No need for them in a domestic setting. Even at 1 Gigabit speeds. Unless you live in Buckingham Palace, I suspect you won't have a need for a cable longer than the Cat5e specifications let you run 1000 Mbps. smile

Category 8 is designed for data centres where distances between switches and servers are short. It is not intended for general cabling. It is defined by the standards organisations for lengths upto 36 metres.

By buying Cat 8 at eBay/Amazon prices, you are more than likely getting something sub-standard. Without enterprise test tools, you won't be able to tell.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Wed 13-Jan-21 19:00:31)

Standard User johnankrett
(newbie) Wed 13-Jan-21 19:22:40
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.
Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Thu 14-Jan-21 10:15:58
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by johnankrett:
What is the issue with Cat8 cables?
No need for them in a domestic setting. Even at 1 Gigabit speeds. Unless you live in Buckingham Palace, I suspect you won't have a need for a cable longer than the Cat5e specifications let you run 1000 Mbps. smile

Category 8 is designed for data centres where distances between switches and servers are short. It is not intended for general cabling. It is defined by the standards organisations for lengths upto 36 metres.

By buying Cat 8 at eBay/Amazon prices, you are more than likely getting something sub-standard. Without enterprise test tools, you won't be able to tell.


It's actually worse than that. Everything up to Cat 6a was a balanced pair. Cat7 and Cat 8 has each individual pair with a screening. This turns the pairs into miniature twinax cables. This is why genuine Cat 7 and Cat 8 need to be terminated with GG45 or Tera connectors and plugged into devices with GG45 or Tera sockets. These properly terminate each of the twinax cables to stop the electrical signals bouncing off the end of the cable and degrading the signal (simplified explanation for those without appropriate degrees in physics or electrical engineering).

There are absolutely zero devices on the market with GG45 or Tera sockets that I am aware of and certainly no consumer equipment so there is no way you can actually correctly use a Cat8 cable.

The OP has used a little bit of knowledge about Ethernet cables, that Cat6a is better than Cat 6 which is better than Cat 5e etc. and used that to conclude that Cat7/8 is better still. They didn't have sufficient knowledge of subject to determine that they where wrong. This the definition of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

The OP first port of call should be to replace the Cat8 cables because they do not conform to a valid IEEE or TIA/EIA standard and could be making things worse.

There are unfortunately a lot of charlata's on eBay/Amazon who are selling Cat7/8 cables to the gullible.

My personal prediction is that the proposed use case of Cat8 in the data centre will not transpire. It will all be direct attach cables or fibre. Even in 2021 if you presented a device in the data centre at 10Gbps with a twisted pair interface it would be a right pain in the backside as you would have to go out and by a very expensive SFP+ to plug it into a switch. Which is why server grade NIC's all have SFP+ cages so one can make the choice between a DAC or some SFP+'s and fibre as suits.
Standard User ft247
(newbie) Thu 14-Jan-21 11:01:17
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Even in 2021 if you presented a device in the data centre at 10Gbps with a twisted pair interface it would be a right pain in the backside as you would have to go out and by a very expensive SFP+ to plug it into a switch. Which is why server grade NIC's all have SFP+ cages so one can make the choice between a DAC or some SFP+'s and fibre as suits.


SFP+ in my experience is the way to go for 10Gbps networking in the home too.

-preterminated fibre is cheap, and given the choice between installing Cat6A+ without expensive test kit, or just taking a bit of care pulling the fibre, the fibre is the easier and cheaper option. In my day job I see a lot of abused fibre patch cables and it's amazing what they'll stand up to, especially when you are not pushing the limits of the power budget.

-10GBASE-T SFP+ modules are more expensive than fibre.

-Fibre SFP+ / DACs often consume less power, which means they generate less heat. Most home data closets/lofts don't have air handling...

-There is a healthy market in last-generation ex-server SFP+ PCIe cards at reasonable prices.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 14-Jan-21 11:08:27
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Re: Slow FTTP. My Zen 115/20 service is delivering 50/20


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the detailed rationale, I hadn't researched Cat7/8 in enough detail. I saw there was a specification.

Having used Cisco direct attach at 40Gbps for short runs in our data centres, and then fibres for everything else, we just used Cat 6 for our general servers (some with 4 x 1Gb), and then the big midrange kit running lots of VMs had direct attach.

I assume the cable are going to be Cat6 with an incorrect label on, when sold on eBay/Amazon etc!! Whom in a the domestic market is going to be able to tell?

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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