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Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Fri 05-Feb-21 19:16:37
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Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[link to this post]
 
Short version. Changed ISP in December.
Before move was with EE (FTTC) and stable at around 60Mbps. The cable length is approximately 550m from the cabinet as measured by Openreach.

I moved to Pulse8 as they offer a monthly rolling contract with a fixed IP address. Openreach recently put fibre down our estate but it could be 6 months before it is available so monthly contract is best.

After move, everything worked fine for a week or so. We then got a dropped connection for a couple of hours. The next day it dropped again and came back on at 1Mbps, sat at that for a few hours and eventually after rebooting the modem/router (Zyxel VMG8825-B50B) it came back up.

I reported a fault as the connection seemed to be slow and dropping at times but was going back up to 58-60Mbps.

Openreach engineer came out. Tested line - No faults, checked DSLAM and changed my connection to new ports. Speed dropped to 48Mbps. He then left and didn't come back.

I am now on my 6th or 7th Openreach engineer as none of them can fix the issue. Every time they come out they test the line, change the ports and still no speed difference. I have been told by one of the engineers that the fault lies at teh DSLAM as the speed to the DLSAM is 80Mbps as soon as it goes onto my line it drops to around 48Mbps. One engineer even tested the line in the street ducts between me and the cabinet and the line is perfect.

There is a second cabinet in the same location which has 110MBPs coming into the DLSAM but Openreach will not move me to that cabinet.

I have been advised by Pulse8 that as the cabinet I am on is full, should I move to another ISP I would probably be given a connection in the other cabinet.

My line is on a 80/60Mbps profile with a DLSAM reporting I should get between 80 - 67Mbps with a DHT of 60Mbps.

Yes, I can move ISP but don't want tied into a contract as I will take the FTTP as soon as it is available.

How do you go about raising this issue with Openreach to try and get the faulty DSLAM replaced or what else can I do?

48Mbps may seem like a good speed for some but as an example, 2 people online, my wife watching low res training video, me watching 1080p YouTube video and downloading a software update and everything grinds to a halt with both videos and download failing/buffering.

I am now waiting on my 7th or 8th or whatever engineer to come out to tell me the line is great and that the DSLAM is faulty.

I told you this was the short version.
Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Fri 05-Feb-21 20:10:59
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Get your wife to order another connection with Pulse8 then once that is up and running cancel your existing contract (or would you get hit with installation charges)?

Edited by GonePostal (Fri 05-Feb-21 20:11:32)

Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Fri 05-Feb-21 20:25:39
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
There are many potential issues in a cabinet that can cause slow speeds, and there are many cabinets that have issues.so I dont doubt that there could be a larger problem with yours. Which cab and exchange is it?
There is a second cabinet in the same location which has 110MBPs coming into the DLSAM but Openreach will not move me to that cabinet.

Trying to understand that. Maybe they mean the max attainable rate but that would be specific to each line. Certainly the port and associated wiring can have a big effect on the max attainable rate .
The only way to get moved to another DSLAM on the same PCP would be to cease and reproduce the line or order a new line as it will require a change of headend (most likely , and definately if they are different vendors)


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Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Feb-21 22:33:43
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeoPrice1:
I have been told by one of the engineers that the fault lies at the DSLAM
Why didn't that engineer pass the fault over so the team who look after the DSLAM investigate the issue.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sat 06-Feb-21 03:03:24
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeoPrice1:
I have been told by one of the engineers that the fault lies at teh DSLAM as the speed to the DLSAM is 80Mbps as soon as it goes onto my line it drops to around 48Mbps. One engineer even tested the line in the street ducts between me and the cabinet and the line is perfect.


That's how it's supposed to work.
The fact the engineer gets 80Mb at the DSLAM proves the port is working.

The signal degrades on its way to you. The fact you don't get the 80Mb after the signal has reached your home isn't an issue with the DSLAM.

Speeds also drop over time as more customers get connected to a cabinet (crosstalkers).

Changing ports or "fixing" the DSLAM won't change anything. You still have the same pair of wires, with the same crosstalk interference, carrying the signal to your home.
If possible you should try push for a pair swap (changing the pair used between you and the cabinet for either some or all of the distance).
This can mitigate crosstalk, which can vary massively between pairs.

My line is on a 80/60Mbps profile with a DLSAM reporting I should get between 80 - 67Mbps with a DHT of 60Mbps.


Your line isn't on a 80/60 profile. I'm sure you meant 80/20??

Do you have any line stays from your modem?
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 09:29:00
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Obviously 550m is quite long and not guaranteed to offer you 80Mbps.

The longer the line length the higher the risk there is to noise and if DLM causes it to disconnect that 80Mbps speed will obviously not be maintained and will drop to 60Mbps.

But since your connection does drop to 1Mbps that may indeed indicate that the problem is related to the DSLAM or router. Check your router settings. Is it maintaining stable system uptime?

If the router is faulty and causes it to reset, then it is router fault. Make sure when your connection drops the system uptime does not reset! Because if it does then the router is faulty.

Sometimes Openreach engineers are not honest. They will say that no fault is found when clearly there is, but they are simply unable to fix it!

This happened to me when I had ADSL on EO Line for years I would have intermittent drop outs every single day with no solution whatsoever. And my exchange was 1300 meters to home so I knew noise was a factor. Openreach engineers claimed everything was fine and can't find a fault.

Less than 2 years ago October 2019 I got upgraded to FTTC for the first time from an EO Line and my connection problems disappeared! When an Openreach came to install my NTE5c pre-filtered faceplate last year as part of my FTTC upgrade he admitted there was a line fault and reassured that with FTTC the drop-out problem will stop.

I am now with a 320m cabinet and I do get 80/20 Mbps. But crosstalk is a factor. Last year when I switched to TalkTalk FTTC I was getting 80/20 Mbps with a 6dB SNR. Due to crosstalk, I am now syncing at 80/20 with a 2.30dB noise margin profile. Fortunately my connection is maintaining stability even with a 2.30dB profile for more than 60 days connection uptime!

Also you can try checking with your next door neighbours who are connected to the same cabinet and ask them if they have the same issue with connection speeds and drop-outs.
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 12:30:51
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Geopirce

max of FTTC is 80 (so not sure what you are on about the 110) - your service will be based on what your provider offer and the distance you are to the cabinet you are connected as the cable runs (also dependin on usage on that cab there might be some cross talk interference which migh reduce you speed)

openreach will never move you from one enabled cabinet to another fro 2 reasona reason 1 - its actually not about the VDS at all -- (if that cab increased your ADSl line distance it would not be be allowesd to do that as that could be seen to disadvantage copper providers and provide unfair advantage to providers that offer FTTc services, . Reason it if did that it would have to offer that as serivice to every one in the uk . as it would be a predent
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 12:32:26
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
it will route the same way over the same cable to the same block and the same Dslam
Standard User heathrow
(regular) Sat 06-Feb-21 12:50:37
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
The condition of the copper as well as the length from the cabinet will affect speed too.

I'm 500m via the cable route - not crow fly - from my cabinet.


With copper in very good condition I *should* have got 60.


In reality I never got more than 50 and most of the time it was much lower.

(Why I switched to Community Fibre)
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 06-Feb-21 13:34:26
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
it will route the same way over the same cable to the same block and the same Dslam

It will likely route to the DSLAM the most available ports which could be the 2and DSLAM cabinet. This maybe a different vendor and it may have CAT5 ties which may give a better connection speed.
It may turn out the 2nd cabinet is a g.fast pod so it will make no difference as the OP is too far for g.fast. Would need to know the cab and exchange though.

Edited by witchunt (Sat 06-Feb-21 13:48:24)

Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 16:46:42
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I meant 80/20. Thanks
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 16:54:34
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
The Openreach engineers have told me that the speed of the fibre into the DSLAM is 80Mbps on the cabinet I am on. As soon as it exits the DSLAM as it connects to my line (from what I have been told) it drops to 48/49Mbps. By the time it reaches me I am getting 46-47Mbps.

I am connected to Cabinet 22 on Larkhall Exchange.

The same engineer that expalined the DSLAM fault also said that he is measuring 110Mbps from the exchange into the DSLAM in the second cabinet.

Everything was stable at 58-60Mbps before the line outage that then gave me stability problems and 1Mbps sync speed.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 16:55:25
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
I did think of this but there would be a £129 charge for a new connection.

Thanks
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 16:57:56
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
I was getting 58 - 60 Mbps without any issues so the line distance adn condition are not the issue.

The engineers have tested the line every time they are out and it is perfect. One even lifted the scteer access panels and tested the line. There is very little drop in the speed from the cabinet to my house.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:04:56
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I don't know, and the ISP doesn't know either. One engineer even said he would check that it had been passed to the DSLAM fault engineer, but I never heard anything back.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:17:49
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I fully understand distance, line condition, S/N ratios etc. I was getting 60Mbps stable until the outage that then resulted in connection drops and 1Mbps sync speeds.

The 80Mbps is measured when it enters the cabinet not when it connects to my line. When he measured the speed out of the DSLAM (in the cabinet) it was already at 48-49Mbps whereas it should have been around the 80Mbps expected.
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:26:31
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
just so we clear what happens between the exchange and dslam is irrelevant -- , Services are offered only up to max of 80 m/bps - that actually tranmit out at 76 (at a max no one will ever get 80) - based on about 500m i would expected you about some where between 50 - 60 meg at best efforts
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:42:45
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
I've read your initial post again. Sounds like there is an issue but you're sightly misunderstanding how it works.

Sounds like you have 2 fibre DSLAM's. The engineer is checking the attainable rate on a port on each of the DSLAM's.
1 is showing 110Mb/s and the other 80Mb/s.

110Mb/s is not too bad on a busy cabinet. There's crosstalk (interference) within the copper tie cables that link the fibre cabinet and the green PCP where the engineer runs the tests from.
140Mb/s is a good result if there's little crosstalk.

80Mb/s isn't a good result at the cabinet if they are testing the attainable rate. That's usually marked as a faulty port.

It doesn't drop to 48Mb/s as soon as it hits your line. When the engineer says it's 80Mb/s where it enters the cabinet, that's the point where your line starts.
The signal and therefore sync rate decreases the further a line is from that point.
It can't be 48Mb/s at the cabinet and the same 500m away.

Sounds like there may not be any free "working" ports with a good enough attainable.
The cabinet might benefit from upgraded tie cables. This reduces the crosstalk between the fibre cabinet and PCP.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:48:20
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fastman3:
based on about 500m i would expected you about some where between 50 - 60 meg at best efforts


Best efforts? You're having a laugh. Lots of lines at 500m sync higher than 60Mb/s.

I'm typing this from a 800m long line syncing at 51Mb on a 4dB SNRM target.
Standard User heathrow
(regular) Sat 06-Feb-21 17:59:17
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
and lots don't.


At 500m (cable run distance, not crowfly) I got 35 before I had openreach out.


After they had replaced the dropwire to my house and put me onto a new pair between the DP and sub-DP I got 45-50. 50 in very dry weather.

Copper was knackered on the run below ground between the DP and the cabinet. OR would not replace this.

I no longer have service from OR.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-21 18:09:32
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
There are literally thousands of ports marked as faulty for investigation across the country. It would probably take a month to go through them all if you diverted every single openreach engineer to it. As it is there are probably less than 50 across the country at any one time dealing with anything from a single slow speed fault to loss of headend affecting thousands. The old FTTC network is very poorly respected and some of the cabinets have been abused by people that dont know what they are doing.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-21 18:21:57
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
If an NGA engineer has been to look at your port they will check the attainable rate. If it is poor they will try to rectify it but it maybe that is best available . Could be cross talk on a highly loaded cabinet or damaged ties or a card fault.
If its intermittent and tested ok then the incident would be closed.
I doubt that it is a wide scale problem across the cabinet otherwise it would have been escalated. Unfortunately you can only raise the issue again with your SP and and perhaps escalate it yourself to directors level within openreach if you feel it warrants that.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 18:56:08
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
The point is that I was synching at (and stable at) around 60Mbps until the first engineer changed the ports and it dropped to belwo 50Mbps, and since then none of the engineers have been unable to get it back up to anywhere near the 60Mbps I had.

I have been getting 58 - 60Mbps for the last 4 years without issue. The issue started when the line dropped one weekend early in December.

The only thing that changed around that time was that Openreach subcontractors pulled fibre through the ducts in the street. But, every engineer has tested the line, with one even tracing it through the street access manholes. They have all confirmed there is no fault with the line between the cabinet and my house.
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 19:22:20
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fastman3:
just so we clear what happens between the exchange and dslam is irrelevant -- , Services are offered only up to max of 80 m/bps - that actually tranmit out at 76 (at a max no one will ever get 80) - based on about 500m i would expected you about some where between 50 - 60 meg at best efforts
@Fastman that's not true. I sync at 80/20 Mbps in my TalkTalk router settings and I also get 80/20 in speed tests. Not absolutely every single time but most of the time I get speed tests of 80 Mbps download and 20 Mbps upload with various speed test sites.

Here's proof. https://i.imgur.com/6XC1WI7.jpg
https://i.speedof.me/201205000112-233
https://i.imgur.com/h01UK8f.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/k8Lmgoh.jpg

Some of them, not exactly 80 Mbps but all above the 76 Mbps speed test that you say. With one of them 81 Mbps. I'm on a cabinet that's 320 meters approximately away. People much closer will pretty much guarantee sync speeds of 80 Mbps and 20 Mbps upload barring crosstalk.

Even though speeds can be offered at max 80 Mbps cap. The cabinet measure speed can go higher than that. For example Bonded FTTC can give you up to 280 Mbps with Cerberus but very expensive at £300 a month. The checker will give variable speed estimates based on cabinet distance on bonded FTTC packages.
Standard User Eeeps
(regular) Sat 06-Feb-21 22:00:16
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
Do you know what happen when your line dropped and what was done to fix it?
Exactly what was faulty? Did any of your neighbours have problems at the same time?

Sounds like your line was cut and is now impacted due to a splice.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-21 22:07:07
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Eeeps:
Sounds like your line was cut and is now impacted due to a splice.
Am I the only one confused by this comment?
Standard User Whitehall11
(learned) Sat 06-Feb-21 22:21:35
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by Eeeps:
Sounds like your line was cut and is now impacted due to a splice.
Am I the only one confused by this comment?


Could they mean that the cable has been cut and spliced back together? It's a possibility i guess, but any OR test surely would find a faulty re-join on the line.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-21 22:43:09
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Whitehall11] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Whitehall11:
Could they mean that the cable has been cut and spliced back together? It's a possibility i guess, but any OR test surely would find a faulty re-join on the line.
I've never heard of a copper or aluminium cable being spliced, it would normally be crimped thats why I was confused by the comment.
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Sat 06-Feb-21 22:46:49
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Eeeps:
Do you know what happen when your line dropped and what was done to fix it?
Exactly what was faulty? Did any of your neighbours have problems at the same time?

Sounds like your line was cut and is now impacted due to a splice.
I'm also confused by your post. My line was dropping formerly on EO Line on ADSL. It would quickly reconnect within 1-2 minutes but my connection wouldn't maintain stability with a 3dB or 6dB SNR. When I contacted my ISP to manually increase the SNR to 9dB only then my connection was stable but at reduced speeds such as 12Mbps.

My line was not cut. There were no physical damages to the cable. But I believe due to the long length and noise on the line the connection would never remain stable for more than 1-4 days. Neighbours in my case didn't have problems at the same time, but they suffered from the same disconnection problems as soon as SNR dropped to 0dB connection cuts off.

My EO Line FTTC cabinet got upgraded in October 2019 and this month is exactly 1 year since I now have FTTC. My connection problem spontaneously got resolved from the FTTC switch and I now have 80/20 Mbps rock solid last 12 months. It is a 24 month contract with TalkTalk and I am no longer experiencing these problems.

My connection on ADSL was always having issues and Openreach engineers were never able to fix it. Even after my EO Line got upgraded to FTTC nearly 2 years ago my ADSL was still suffering. It was only after I had switched to FTTC following my end of the ADSL contract with Plusnet did my problem get resolved.

I know that till this day people in my area (Bishopsgate exchange) who are on ADSL will still have problems, but switching to FTTC immediately rectifies the problem. Many people here on these forums and on Youtube have had the same experiences. Generally speaking FTTC with shorter copper cable length to the cabinet reduces risk of noise and that should normally resolve the problem automatically. But OP is obviously unlucky that his length is 550 meters long, I'm guessing there is some random noise problems on his lines that is causing his drop-outs.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 23:32:23
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:
I'm guessing there is some random noise problems on his lines that is causing his drop-outs.


There is no random noise. There was only ever the one drop out which happened on a Sunday afternoon. The next day there were drops and re-syncing at 1Mbps.

I initially reported the problem as a disconnect over the two days.

The slow speed is a result of the Openreach engineer changing my ports. I was getting speeds of around 60Mpbs stable for around 4 years previously.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Feb-21 08:07:46
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
No.

Several posts using incorrect terminology in this thread, along with guesswork, and others wading in with their own retelling of their own issues, with no bearing on the OP’s problem.

Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 09:03:39
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Eeeps:
Sounds like your line was cut and is now impacted due to a splice.


Odd comment. A single extra joint done correctly (it's hard to get wrong) will have no noticeable impact on a lines sync.

It isn't exactly detrimental to a line to have joins/crimps or everyone on copper would be screwed.
Count the number of footway "joint boxes" (the clue is in the name) on the average pavement and how often they are spaced.

Most lines probably have half a dozen joints between cabinet and home. Lots have many many more.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 09:35:56
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
along with guesswork
Can you please advise of my misdemeanours so I learn and don't do it again smile

Edit: Sorry misread guesswork as guess who and thought I had messed up like I normally do frown

Edited by dect (Sun 07-Feb-21 10:13:51)

Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:28:39
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
48 mbps should be plenty for two HD connections and a download. I got 4K programme on TV with adsl via Amazon.

Whichever is the most important then carry out the other operation at a different time.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:36:35
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
As a process of elimination putting you back on your original DSLAM port to see if the speed would go back to what it was would be a good start but I don't know what the chances of that would be. Are you sure nothing else was changed during the very first visit.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:37:31
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
I got 4K programme on TV with adsl via Amazon.


Streaming 4K (UHD) - Netflix/Amazon/Disney can stream 4K in around 25 Mbps. The likes of BBC which like to do things differently may need more, if you can find any 4k content.

Live broadcast 4K (UHD) - This is where things are more complicated, and may need 50 Mbps or more. (YouTube isn't real "broadcast").

smile

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:39:57
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Amazon use much higher compression. 15 mbps was enough to get the programme.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User _Icaras_
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:49:45
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Max attainable should really be 100Mb or so at the cab. 80Mb at the cab used to get marked as faulty but it’s meaning that they have so many faulty ports that now 80Mb is allowed at the cab. So OP is out of luck.

Icaras
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 10:55:27
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: _Icaras_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by _Icaras_:
Max attainable should really be 100Mb or so at the cab. 80Mb at the cab used to get marked as faulty but it’s meaning that they have so many faulty ports that now 80Mb is allowed at the cab. So OP is out of luck.
Its a shame the acceptable standards have been allowed to slip like this, its always the customer who ultimately suffers not the ISP or Openreach who still get paid the same.
Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:05:47
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Spliced is just an Americanism for jointed. A lot of American terms have crept in in recent years.

Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:16:06
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
Spliced is just an Americanism for jointed. A lot of American terms have crept in in recent years.

It's interesting.

I would have never thought to use the term splice for joins in copper cabling. In comms I have always associated splicing with fibre. Copper cabling is terminated (or punched-down) at the ends and an intermediate join on a cable run is a joint.

There is also "potting up" - perhaps not of the MJ or Alan Titchmarsh type but of using flowable resin to encase a joint.

For the sailors out there you can splice rope too.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:23:03
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Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
I had another line drop today. After it came back up I took these stats from the modem. Can anyone see anything wrong with this?

Remember, this line was stable at 60Mbps for 4 years and only dropped after the ports were changed by Openreach.

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
G.Vector: Disable
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 23 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 18.500 Mbps 48.418 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 18.476 Mbps 48.337 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.1 dB 6.3 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 6.8 dBm 6.9 dBm
Receive Power: -4.7 dBm -2.1 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 0.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 11.5 dB 14.9 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 18.640 Mbps 47.939 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 0.3 12.2 29.4 N/A 10.7 24.8 39.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 0.3 12.3 29.2 N/A 11.4 24.6 39.7
SNR Margin(dB): 7.5 6.1 6.1 N/A 6.3 6.3 6.2
Transmit Power(dBm): - 4.5 -23.9 6.5 N/A 9.1 7.9 6.8
============================================================================

VDSL Counters

Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 23 min 41 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 6 1
ES: 6 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 9 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 3 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 3 1
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 24 min 9 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 6 1
ES: 6 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Total time = 24 min 9 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 6 1
ES: 6 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
============================================================================
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:28:25
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
As a process of elimination putting you back on your original DSLAM port to see if the speed would go back to what it was would be a good start but I don't know what the chances of that would be. Are you sure nothing else was changed during the very first visit.


They probably don't know what ports I was on as it has been changed 5 or 6 times since the original change.

My thought is that the DSLAM is not only faulty but the cabinet is full. They just keep swapping customers ports to try and keep the latest complaint happy. I did discuss this with one engineer who didn't disagree.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:35:54
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeoPrice1:
I had another line drop today. After it came back up I took these stats from the modem. Can anyone see anything wrong with this?


Fastpath on a 6dB target.

DLM isn't holding the line back and it's achieving as good as it can (in its current state).
Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:40:04
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
For the sailors out there you can splice rope too.


Which would have been happening (using that verb) a long time before any wired technology had been invented and probably before Columbus had made it across the Atlantic.

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 07-Feb-21 12:41:38)

Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 12:47:12
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
I'd be very surprised if anybody had changed dslam ports 5 or 6 times.

Lest we forget everybody is guessing on the forum. Nobody has had their meters out.

So I'll have a punt that you had a line fault and somebody has swapped you to a different cable pair that has different properties. Any subsequent port change still connects you to the same cablie pair with the same properties.

.

Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:01:28
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
I'd be very surprised if anybody had changed dslam ports 5 or 6 times.

Lest we forget everybody is guessing on the forum. Nobody has had their meters out.

So I'll have a punt that you had a line fault and somebody has swapped you to a different cable pair that has different properties. Any subsequent port change still connects you to the same cablie pair with the same properties.

.


The cable pair has not been changed (hopefully) as there was a fault in the original pair some time ago (4 years or more) so the faulty pair were capped or removed. Since having the faulty pair issue fixed 4 years ago I had a stable 60Mbps. None of the engineers have made any changes at the master socket except change the faceplate, so I would guess that I am still using the same cable pair.
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:06:16
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
Spliced is just an Americanism for jointed. A lot of American terms have crept in in recent years.
Thanks for this info, I wasn't aware before but will in the future smile
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:09:28
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
DSLAM ports cannot be changed willy nilly. If a port change is required it has to be authorised and the change done centrally as well as at the cab , otherwise the port wont work. They original port will be marked as faulty for investigation. Eventually the ports will run out and the faulty ports checked and repaired.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:24:56
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
DSLAM ports cannot be changed willy nilly. If a port change is required it has to be authorised and the change done centrally as well as at the cab , otherwise the port wont work. They original port will be marked as faulty for investigation. Eventually the ports will run out and the faulty ports checked and repaired.


The engineers have explained that and one even asked if he could move my connection to the other cabinet, which is getting 110Mbps feed, but this was refused.

From what I have been told by some of the engineers, no matter what port they have used since my first port change, the speed they are measuring at the ports in the cabinet is only around 48 - 49Mbps even before it goes any distance down the line.

The fact that they are only getting 48 - 49Mbps at the DSLAM port highlights that the DSLAM is the source of the fault as the speed at the port should be close to the maximum speed. I can only go by what I am told.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:34:21
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
They will never get a change to the other DSLAM as its on a different headend ( different vendor). The only way to achieve that would be a cease and provide of the broadband, or a new line connection.
48 Mbits at the cab would be about 30Mbits at the end of a 500m line

Edited by witchunt (Sun 07-Feb-21 13:37:31)

Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:42:07
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
They will never get a change to the other DSLAM as its on a different headend ( different vendor). The only way to achieve that would be a cease and provide of the broadband, or a new line connection.
48 Mbits at the cab would be about 30Mbits at the end of a 500m line


A port swap can still be done across different DSLAM's. The fact it's a different Head-End/OLT makes no difference.
The virtual routing needs changed on a port swap anyway.

I could link you a dozen threads where a port swap has been between 2 DSLAM vendors on the same PCP.

Edit: what do they think they do if a port becomes faulty and there's no free ports on that DSLAM?

There's no need for a cease and reprovide.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 07-Feb-21 13:44:47)

Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 13:59:39
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I could link you a dozen threads where a port swap has been between 2 DSLAM vendors on the same PCP.

Yes please
what do they think they do if a port becomes faulty and there's no free ports on that DSLAM?

An incident will be raised for NGA to investigate the faulty port(s) and repair where necessary
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 14:08:03
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
An incident will be raised for NGA to investigate the faulty port(s) and repair where necessary


And in the mean time a port swap is done. That port swap is entirely random and can be on either of the 2 Vendors DSLAM's.

The routing is virtual. Only a tie pair needs changed to swap port, wether that port is on the same DSLAM or another DSLAM.

Not only can I link numerous threads where a port swap has been from 1 DSLAM vendor to another, but there's a thread on kitz where a user went back and forth TWICE while OpenReach were trying to find a working port.

No idea where you get that a random port swap can't change DSLAM Vendor.

I'm aware you with for OpenReach and I take much of what you say as gospel and have learnt a lot from your posts.

Your assumption above is incorrect though.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 14:17:04
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Can I have the links you mention please.
If it was possible ( without a cease and provide of broadband) then at would have been the next logical step in this case but obviously wasn't

Edited by witchunt (Sun 07-Feb-21 14:19:49)

Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 14:22:25
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
If j0hn83 claims its normal practice to move people between DSLAMs why don't you push for this to happen and report back on what your ISP/Openreach says/does.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 14:30:19
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21331.0.html

The user in this thread was put back on an ECI port, after previously having been swapped from ECI to Huawei in another thread (linked to from that thread).

Confirmed by the old MyDSLwebstats which let us check the tones in use. Also confirmed by the user running the info Vendor command.
IFTN to BDCM back to IFTN.

Upon checking his cabinet on codelook its no surprise there was both an ECI and Huawei cab on his PCP.

Happy to post more examples when I'm home from work. There's been a couple examples of that on these forums also.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 15:01:06
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Straight away that post says they switched provider which no doubt instigated a cease a reproved. There is a link to a previous thread with 7 pages on it which I dont have time to read through right now. Maybe needs some bedtime reading.
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Feb-21 15:08:00
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Straight away that post says they switched provider which no doubt instigated a cease a reproved. There is a link to a previous thread with 7 pages on it which I dont have time to read through right now. Maybe needs some bedtime reading.


Since when did a migration involve a cease and reprovide?

You're also ignoring the 1st port swap from ECI to Huawei

We have had engineer visits as had issues but didn't get a report on cabinet change.


https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18678.msg34...
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-21 15:24:30
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
They' d had 9 visits, who knows what their provider was doing in the background to rectify the issue.
TBH, a 4 year old thread isnt much use to what happens now.
Standard User heathrow
(regular) Sun 07-Feb-21 15:40:21
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
The other issue is that there can be different pairs in the path.

Where I live the path from the NTE was:


Dropwire <-> Sub DP <-> DP <-> PCP <-> DSLAM.

The dropwire had multiple spare pairs, as did the Sub-DP to DP link as did DP to PCP etc.

Changing any of these would affect the characteristics of the line.
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Mon 08-Feb-21 13:46:34
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeoPrice1:
In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:
I'm guessing there is some random noise problems on his lines that is causing his drop-outs.


There is no random noise. There was only ever the one drop out which happened on a Sunday afternoon. The next day there were drops and re-syncing at 1Mbps.

I initially reported the problem as a disconnect over the two days.

The slow speed is a result of the Openreach engineer changing my ports. I was getting speeds of around 60Mpbs stable for around 4 years previously.
Are you allowing the router to be always on? Make sure to not switch off the router to see if interleave will settle and correct itself.

Also, you are positive that the router system uptime is not resetting itself? Because a faulty router or a router that overheats can cause itself to reboot itself triggering DLM to lower its speeds. Make sure not to place router near the central heating.

Have you checked with another router to confirm if the issue persists? What about your neighbours, are they having issues with their connections as well?

I see you posted your stats. Have you observed if your noise margins are stable at all times?

Regardless of what speeds your connection settles to, even if it was low, the router and connection up-time should remain stable! Even in the event of crosstalk, while it may contribute to speed reductions, your connection must not drop out frequently.

You should log in to your router settings and observe these stats every day to find out whether your connection has remained stable and if not at what time those drop-outs occurred.

Openreach changing port was probably a mistake as you say you had problems before the port was changed.

You say you were with EE, is this in the same property that you lived in? Did the switch to Pulse8 cause this issue shortly afterwards? It could be the ISP or the router supplied by the ISP that's the fault.

If Pulse8 is a monthly rollout contract, I suppose you can end it and switch back to another ISP and see if the problem resolves itself?
Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Feb-21 11:48:22
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
Another option would be to switch to 4G/5G on a monthly SIM until FTTP comes (I assume that is what is happening from the OPs original post).

That's what I'd personally be doing if the desyncs were causing a big headache. 48 vs 60mbit/sec not really noticable IMO.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Mon 29-Mar-21 12:32:43
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Well, after nearly 4 months of various Openreach engineers and numerous fault calls, I think the issue has finally been sortted. Well, not sorted, but, worked around.

After numerous engineers told me the line was great with no fault and the fault lay with the DSLAM which was over crowded, my ISP, Pulse8, finally ordered a second phone line.

I had asked on a number of visits to get a 'lift and shift' to the new DLSM that was right next to the original one, but no one would do it.

Engineer came yesterday and installed a second phone line. Building it from the house to the cabinet. He got ports in the new DSLAM extension and connected everythin up.

On the original line, the speeds had dropped from a stable 60Mbps down to around 40Mbps and very unstable. THe new line is synching at 71.5Mbps with an attainable of around 72.8Mbps. Upstream is sitting at 19.99Mbps with an attainable of over 27Mbps. Not bad for a 500m line. .

So, now I need to get my phone number transferred over to the new line and get the old line disconnected.

Pulse8 have paid the cost of the new line going in and all the work that was carried out.
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Mon 29-Mar-21 12:41:54
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Best of luck with that one working
Standard User jpm
(member) Mon 29-Mar-21 12:53:51
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
If you want to keep a landline then I'd take this opportunity to do a number port from the old line, which will sort out the ceasing for you, and move to a VoIP provider.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Mon 29-Mar-21 15:11:39
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: jpm] [link to this post]
 
I think that is what my ISP intend to do. I was just dumbfounded at the amount of hoops I had to jump through the finally get a good stable connection that probably could have been fixed by a 'lift and shift' from one cabinet to the other.
Standard User GeoPrice1
(newbie) Sun 04-Apr-21 15:31:31
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
So a week after OpenReach built me a new line from the house to the cabinet (550m) and after the line has stabilised, I am now sitting steady at:

Actual Net Data Rate: 19.999 Mbps 78.450 Mbps
Attainable Net Data Rate: 26.347 Mbps 80.865 Mbps

Not bad for a 80/20 profile and 550m line distance.
Standard User Grimers
(learned) Sun 04-Apr-21 18:44:50
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: GeoPrice1] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, that's impressive! Nice one!
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 09-Apr-21 08:32:39
Print Post

Re: Openreach not fixing DSLAM fault


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by Fastman3:
based on about 500m i would expected you about some where between 50 - 60 meg at best efforts


Best efforts? You're having a laugh. Lots of lines at 500m sync higher than 60Mb/s.

I'm typing this from a 800m long line syncing at 51Mb on a 4dB SNRM target.


Wow thats a pretty high sync rate for 800m even at 4db seems very high.

For reference I am 350m, my line estimate is only mid 50s, although I am syncing much higher it does suggests others around me are syncing around that speed.

Are you in a vectored area?

For 500m I would consider 60meg a reasonable speed, but also anything as low as about 40 is probably fair game.

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