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Standard User zyborg47
(legend) Sat 13-Feb-21 08:49:36
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Re: one fibre network


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
If it was commercially viable / attractive for private enterprise to JV a single grand-unified-master network at a regional or even national level it would have been done already. However would it really be desirable on many other levels from security, reliability, resiliency etc etc to have only one network - even if it could theoretically be economically justified?

Having discrete fibre networks serving the same area to my mind is not in itself "wasteful" Its actually rather beneficial in many ways - part of the reason why its relatively cheap to get leased circuits in the capital is due to the abundance of fibre in close proximity. However digging up roads six times and laying 4 sets of ducts is both disruptive, expensive and wasteful.

Something along the lines of what Emtelle have been pushing the industry to try and adopt is to my mind far more workable and sensible. The so called "one dig" strategy....

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/09/emtell...

Even getting to that lofty goal would be a major achievement!


That is the problem if it all comes down to being commercially viable, but surly digging a ton of trenches all over the place is not commercially viable, but the many it is.

It was just a thought.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(legend) Sat 13-Feb-21 08:57:47
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Re: one fibre network


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Its not "naff" as such, my family and friends in different parts of the US are all on cable, and have varying speeds from 100 Mbps upto 500 Mbps.

The problem is that there is no competition for cable, so if you want to change ISP, you have to move home (and city, and often state!).

So don't fall out with your ISP....


Chatting to someone last night in the states, and she kept losing connection, she says it have been going on for a few weeks, and it is difficult to get anyone to look at it.

The problem is will we end up in the same situation? Some places still only have one Fibre company, so if they fall out with their ISP they have to go back to FTTC, in the years to come, who knows how long FTTC will keep going?
Be the same here when Zzoomm is up and running, want true Fibre, Zzoomm will be the only option. Open reach don't even have this city on their map for FTTH. There are some places around here, out in the sticks that have Gigaclear, which surprised me.

We will have to wait and see what happens

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sat 13-Feb-21 09:33:14
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Re: one fibre network


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
If it was commercially viable / attractive for private enterprise to JV a single grand-unified-master network at a regional or even national level it would have been done already. However would it really be desirable on many other levels from security, reliability, resiliency etc etc to have only one network - even if it could theoretically be economically justified?

Having discrete fibre networks serving the same area to my mind is not in itself "wasteful" Its actually rather beneficial in many ways - part of the reason why its relatively cheap to get leased circuits in the capital is due to the abundance of fibre in close proximity. However digging up roads six times and laying 4 sets of ducts is both disruptive, expensive and wasteful.

Something along the lines of what Emtelle have been pushing the industry to try and adopt is to my mind far more workable and sensible. The so called "one dig" strategy....

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/09/emtell...

Even getting to that lofty goal would be a major achievement!


That is the problem if it all comes down to being commercially viable, but surly digging a ton of trenches all over the place is not commercially viable, but the many it is.

It was just a thought.

Nobody wants multiple re-trenching of streets etc. A “one-dig” strategy therefore is a more feasible alternative than forcing competing networks to join as one super provider.

Beyond “one dig” there are several other things the regulator could do to appropriately enable competition without duplicating duct or network infrastructure.

1. Make PIA a far more (commercially) attractive proposition than what it is currently (although it’s better than what it first was). Less incentive to dig if it’s cheaper to use exiting pit and pipe.

2. Enforce similar wholesale network access as exists on the Openreach network. Although the weighted advantage of Openreach versus a relative minnow alt net would need careful consideration.

My opinion is that’s it wholly preferable to have a choice of several real network providers that then can challenge, innovate and compete on product choice and price rather than one monolithic, monopolistic player that would be a 40 year throwback to the bad old days of state owned monopoly telcos.

My Broadband Speed Test


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Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 13-Feb-21 10:32:58
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Re: one fibre network


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
I have heard about VM problems, I know people who use them and a couple are on the verge of moving elsewhere, one because of the constant problems, which does make me think if fibre is really more reliable, the other because of the price rise.


VM is essentially a cable TV network, adapted for broadband. In some parts of Virgin's network, hundreds of homes are sharing the same data bandwidth, and there are serious oversubscription issues.

Note also that most of Virgin Media's network is not fibre. Those parts which are are using RFoG (Radio Frequency over Glass), which is the same cable TV architecture delivered over fibre.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 13-Feb-21 12:42:09
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Re: one fibre network


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
VM is essentially a cable TV network, adapted for broadband. In some parts of Virgin's network, hundreds of homes are sharing the same data bandwidth, and there are serious oversubscription issues.
A legacy of the 20+ companies that built each area to different standards. Of course in 1991 they were building for cable TV, not for broadband. Not impossible to resolve, but hard without income, and with a poor network, customers don't stay.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User zyborg47
(legend) Sat 13-Feb-21 19:30:56
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Re: one fibre network


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
VM is essentially a cable TV network, adapted for broadband. In some parts of Virgin's network, hundreds of homes are sharing the same data bandwidth, and there are serious oversubscription issues.

Note also that most of Virgin Media's network is not fibre. Those parts which are are using RFoG (Radio Frequency over Glass), which is the same cable TV architecture delivered over fibre.


Our phone network was never meant for broadband either, copper wires was certainly not meant for what it is being used for, but I do get your meaning about the Virgin network.

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 13-Feb-21 20:04:34
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Re: one fibre network


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Our phone network was never meant for broadband either, copper wires was certainly not meant for what it is being used for, but I do get your meaning about the Virgin network.

A big difference is the POTS network is point to point, the VM cable network is a shared medium. In 1991 it was all analogue television channels, and broadcast to multiple homes, with some sort of descrambler in the "set top box".

Broadband changed this, which is where the DOCSIS standard comes from, and it required quite a few UK companies to retrofit their street cabinets to allow two way communication!

Here we were NTL (formerly CableTel) and in summer 1999 they started a trial in the Guildford head-end, which included my town. So I jumped on the trial, in my old place, with the 3com modem - most of the country was using un-metered dialup services at 56k.

Then in early 2000 Telewest's ISP division Blueyonder did something similar. However friends of mine lived in areas served by Eurobell cable, whom took years to upgrade, and still never managed it, eventually selling out to Telewest. Which meant in those towns, ADSL via the Openreach copper became popular. Telewest & NTL then merged quite late, and bought the mobile business and rebranded as VM.

At this point we had a large enough company to start to challenge BT / Openreach in many towns and cities, if not nationwide.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sat 13-Feb-21 20:06:30)

Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sat 13-Feb-21 20:32:31
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Re: one fibre network


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
About the same time, 1999 I was one of the first getting connected to the same thing in Sydney - Optusnet which was a new the new HFC network somewhat controversially aerially overlaid over the predominant Telstra legacy wired infrastructure, although they too were rolling out Foxtel HFC. As I recall it was a screaming 10M down/512K up service and the cable modem was around half the size of a shoebox - but around half as thick.

Two years later I was in N7, Holloway in North London connecting to much the same thing but courtesy of Cable London /Telewest.

Edit - deep concentration after a few glasses of Pinot, I recall it was actually 1998 and the gear (modem and a much of the gear like the in-line amps on “hardline” coax strung up between poles (bloody yuck) was Scientific Atlanta. We imported a lot of tech from the seppo’s including their cable tv tech.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 13-Feb-21 20:54:12)

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