Stuck on ADSL when all around me have Fibre

I've never seen a post saying that anyone with this problem ever got it resolved, maybe someone has some good news.

A few years ago my village got upgraded to Superfast Fibre up to 80mbps, however for whatever reason my house was missed and I am stuck on ADSL 6mbps 24-7, even the pumping station gets 80mbps . Apparently everyone else is connected to the cabinet 50m up the road but I'm connected to the exchange 1.3km away.

My ISP has so far not done anything to fix the problem and the OpenReach engineer who came out today said there were free ports in the cabinet but he couldn't do a lift 'n' shift because I am on the wrong head or something (?) He advised that I could raise a Cease and Re-provide with my ISP, which may or may not resolve the problem. I'm guessing this won't fix the problem I'll just be without internet for a fortnight then get back what I have now along with a new 24month contract for it and a lower minimum speed promise, yay! I just love Broken Britain.

Rather annoyingly BT won't install a second line at 80mbps because their computer says no. So I'm running out of ideas.

Has anyone else had this problem before and had it resolved?

Could you provide a postcode?

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

Has anyone else had this problem before and had it resolved?

Sounds as if a database is wrong, perhaps one for MrSaffron.

In reply to a post by dect:

Could you provide a postcode?

IP8 3DU

depends how the village was enabled it it was enablement of an existing cabinet there if that cabinet was enabled and your in distance of it there tou should have be part of that enablement , if the village was enabed by building an new cabinet / pcp (all in one) and you are before that cabinet and the rest of the village is beyond the cabinet then it quite possibe you would not not have been covered as openreach is not allowed to increase line loss by more than 2db if you had been say 150 metres south of the cab that means to have been covered you line loss woud increase by 300 metres which your worsen you adsl beyond Ofcom requirements. Openreach is not allowed to worsen copper and force people to fibre (as that impact copper only sellling providers)

Looking on the BT Wholesale checker I can't find an address in that postcode that doesn't have FTTC availability, other than 'The Lodge' which seems to be a copy of 'Burstall Lodge', and Paradae which is also recorded as Paridae.

The correct UPRN for this address according to https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/search is 10093347414, this UPRN returns nothing on the BTw checker. Hopefully this is just a database error.

All but 2 of the properties in your post code are returning results and showing as cab 7 and those that are not I suspect are either yours with a database error or non existent or have never had a telephone line. On CodeLook it doesn't show any EO for your exchange.

What do you get if you enter your telephone number on the DSL Checker what exchange and cabinet does it say?

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Mar-21 22:46:17)

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

. Apparently everyone else is connected to the cabinet 50m up the road but I'm connected to the exchange 1.3km away.

That suggests you're on an EO line. Which would not be able to get FTTC.
Although dect above discounts the EO possibility.

In reply to a post by clyde123:

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

. Apparently everyone else is connected to the cabinet 50m up the road but I'm connected to the exchange 1.3km away.

That suggests you're on an EO line. Which would not be able to get FTTC.
Although dect above discounts the EO possibility.

Codelook doesn't list all the EO lines on an exchange, only a few large EO bundles.

There's definitely EO lines on the OP's exchange.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Codelook doesn't list all the EO lines on an exchange, only a few large EO bundles.

There's definitely EO lines on the OP's exchange.

Sorry thats my mistake I wrongly made the assumption about no EO on OP's exchange based on CodeLook. I will note that for any future comments.

Hi sorry I haven't been on this thread since I started it. Thankyou everyone for taking an interest. I have more to report now.

My property is Tanglewood IP8 3DU. My UPRN is 200004237050. The openreach engineer said I had an exchange line (in hintlesham cabinet 1) but everyone else around me is connected to hintlesham cabinet 7. He said he was unable to do a lift n shift because I think he said I am on a different head to them.

SSE called today to tell me they're giving up. They've decided that there isn't a fault and they can't make openreach reconnect my line to the cabinet. I had suggested a cease and reprovide but SSE told me this probably wouldn't get me a new connection into the nearby cabinet.

SSE says I can have them install a second line which might be connected to the good stuff but I would have to sign up to a 24 month contract where they would only garauntee 2mbps minimum. It would also take longer than 14 days to install so if it turned out it was pointless there would be no way of cancelling it without paying them hundreds of pounds. As you can see they're really helpful.

I've looked on the wholesale checker to try and determine if there is spare capacity in the cabinet (hintlesham cab 7) but I don't really understand what I am looking at, can anyone help with that. And, if there is capacity and I go for a second line what is the probibility openreach will connect me to the cabinet that's 50m away rather than the one that's 1.3km away?

You mention that the engineer said he couldn’t get a lift and shift between the two cabs, as their associated DSLAM’s route back to different head ends ...

SO, to me, this sounds like your line is routed through both cabinets, and when can 7 got added, your port wasn’t shifted to that .....

..... but that is just my guess. More local routing knowledge required to prove or disprove my hypothesis.

maybe worth trying Andrews & Arnold, they more likey to fight it with Openreach than SSE perhaps

An address search on the BTw checker shows you're on cabinet 7, the same as your neighbours, but a UPRN search shows you on cabinet 1.

I would take up A&As offer and see if they can raise this to Openreach as an ORDI request and perhaps something that needs an engineer to go out and verify, whether you then reward them with a year of service is up to you.

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/we-will-fix-your-line/

Edited by jpm (Tue 02-Mar-21 21:20:00)

Just a thought, does your existing telephone line comes overhead from a telephone pole? if so are there other properties served by that same pole and are they showing as being on Cab 7? also does that pole have a DP tag on it (e.g. DP 3)?

Zarjaz - that sounds plausible. The engineer said the cable went through 7 to get to 1. But someone on another forum told me they never do that. It's possible I got missed because when we moved in we had to change the name of the house (2 other houses on the same street with very similar names). Maybe openreaches database didn't have our address.

mwarby - I just checked out Andrews and Arnold, they sound promising. I'm going to call them tomorrow. If they can sort the problem out I'd stay with them indefinately.

dect - My line comes overhead from the same pole as my neighbours does. I'm not sure who else is someing off that pole but everyone else on the street (all properties on that postcode) are routed to cab 7 (I've checked them all). I tried to look at the pole with a torch and binoculars just now but it's foggy outside.

Based on everything you have said (and the comment from Zarjaz) it does sound like you have been missed.

You could also raise a high level complaint with Openreach (via email to BT CEO), I can remember a thread where someone else had the same issue (I'm sure their ISP was Sky) and they finally got it resolved although they did have to keep chasing Openreach and Sky daily.

Edit: The username of the person who had a similar issue was 'Justin' from Ipswich, they was missed when a new cab was installed and was left on EO. Its a long thread and at the very beginning no one knew exactly what the issue was.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Mar-21 23:28:38)

But someone on another forum told me they never do that.

That someone is wrong.

Go the A&A route ..... would be my advice, if my theory is right, there will be some downtime, as will need a cease and reprovide of the the ports from cab A to cab B ... but if it gets you where you need to be in the end, it’ll be worth it.

A&A have said to problem is too hard for them.

But I've ordered a second line from them so maybe that will be connected to the new cabinet.

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

But I've ordered a second line from them so maybe that will be connected to the new cabinet.

Please keep us updated as it will be interesting to see what happens.

Will do. Fingers crossed.

I'm dubious if the 2nd line option will work.
My 1st suggestion would be a high level complaint to the CEO as the whole area should be covered, possibly as part of a BDUK funded project, so if you have been missed that's real issue.

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Mar-21 10:46:43)

Have SSE offered to release you from your contract?

will also depend on the distance - is the premises before the new cab (7) which i assume is a new all in one , , it if before or out of distance it wont have been cured in to due to liine loss which is why some premises on a DP might be kep and some not , this could be the case where the DP is called a coninous DP ie coveres a large area ,

Sorry, I don't understand alot of the comments here.

I have popped notes into both cabinets to try to make the situtions clear to whoever if connecting the new cable.

Have I understood it right that they could if they were really evil just take a line from the little grey box on the telegraph pole? Would this be using the second half of the copper pair, which would definately not fix my problem? Please forgive my ignorance, if I've got this totally wrong, if I need to stop them from doing that it would be useful if I didn't sound like a noob

The line that comes into your house, will most likely have a few spare "pairs" - basically two wires twisted around each other not currently used. A second line would usually just connect into the existing cable in your home, via one of these pairs.

I would edge on the side of caution and expect it to be the same, although there are no guarantees it wont be, or will be.

Have you spoke with BT Retail? They can be somewhat helpful when it comes to doing a job that may not be "profit making" - I've certainly seen some magic worked when in touch with the correct teams. A&A is obviously quite costly, and given their lack of willingness to guarantee a fix, you should ensure you have the right to cancel / do not lay out a bunch of costs from the onset (e.g. line install charges etc).

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

SSE says I can have them install a second line which might be connected to the good stuff but I would have to sign up to a 24 month contract where they would only garauntee 2mbps minimum. It would also take longer than 14 days to install so if it turned out it was pointless there would be no way of cancelling it without paying them hundreds of pounds. As you can see they're really helpful.

It probably won't fix your problem, but you could try what I tried. I signed up for a "new2 line through Shell Energy.

At the time ( a few weeks ago) there was a cashback offer that takes the £22 per month or phone line and FTTC broadband to just under £14.50 per month. The minimum contract is 12 months. There was also a £60 new connection fee.

As expected, Openreach just reconnected my old, unused line. Well, they re-enabled the FTTC broadband.

I spoke to engineer (about having a connection to the much-nearer cabinet) and mentioned that I had no use for the phone line. Perhaps that's why he didn't connect the line to the exchange.

Shell Energy want the phone line working (even though I don't) and they won't count the job 'done' until it is. The engineer was supposed to come back yesterday to connect it, but there was no sign of an engineer and there is still no dial tone. Shell Energy have yet to charge me a penny.

This might be a less expensive way for you to try getting a new line. I doubt Shell Energy support are much use, but the price is good, the minimum is 12 months and the performance is as good as the Openreach connection can manage.

They provide a Technicolor modem/router which looks cheap and nasty, but seems to work well enough as a modem, and it gives good info about the connection

Don't worry, nobody understands Fastman's posts, they never make much sense to me.

I have just looked at the BT wholesale checker and you are not on an EO line and FTTC is available but at only 19.6Mbps down 1.5Mbps up so not much good and obviously from a cabinet far away.

The interesting thing is that the address checker says you are on cab 7 which is the nearby cab but the UPRN checker says cab 1 so there is some database error going on here.

The second reply in this thread by @jchamier suggested that you contact Andrew Ferguson (aka Mr Saffron) one of the founders of Thinkbroadband, who has contacts at Openreach and has been known to sort out this type of problem. You probably didn't know about this if you are not familiar with the forum.

The link below is a typical response from Mr Saffron to a lack of FTTC/FTTP availability problem.

Database error

As others have said ordering a new line is a huge risk in that you don't know what the end result will be, for a start you won't get a "new" line it will be spare pairs in your existing line and may end up connected back to the distant cabinet, hopefully A&A will allow you to cancel if the new line is not from cabinet 7 and able to get FTTC.

By the way, I didn't know cabinets had post boxes in them to drop notes in.

Ok your postcode and address is showing as cabinet 7. Speeds are 12 to 19Mbps download. 1Mbps upload.

There is nothing preventing you placing an order, using the post code and house name with ISPs eg I can order with Sky and BT.

Obviously, placing an order using the existing telephone number shows a different cabinet, and hence it seems you are hitting some sort of database error.

Realalemadrid wehether thewy make sense to you i really not fussed either way - what i can tell you is i know what i am talking about and now this stuff works

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

Realalemadrid wehether thewy make sense to you i really not fussed either way - what i can tell you is i know what i am talking about and now this stuff works

Hi Fastman3,

I don't think anyone is saying you don't know what your talking about, I think sadly your posts are littered with errors which make them very hard if not impossible to read like in the quoted post above you say 'wehether thewy' what does that actually mean

Once I post I always go back and check if my posts make sense and a lot of the time I have to edit them several times before they do. I have the added complication that English is not my native tongue but that doesn't stop me trying to make my posts readable where I can.

I certain am not criticising you but just trying to help

I haven't got my second line yet but just a little update from SSE who I haven't let off the hook. I've asked them for a letter of deadlock so I can escalate it to the ombudsman because I don't believe there's nothing they can do, whether the second line works or not I don't like being fobbed off. Now they've come up with this craziness -

"
Good afternoon Mr ****,

I am writing to you with an update on your case. I think you are now aware that senior management are looking into the case and we have had progress on the investigation.

According to recent tests, we have been able to identify that there is an internal interference in the property that is messing with the line.

Our suppliers have asked us to check what might be that cause so please follow the next link for more information:
https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm

Please let us know if you can find what might be causing the interference so we can update the investigation. In the meantime we will keep working on other options for your service and if they are available.

Regards
"

No one has mentioned this before. I've got nothing in my house that is not in most peoples houses. I'm wondering if this is some smokescreen because they won't admit they've given up. What do you guys think?

They don't want to give you a deadlock letter so they are putting obstacles in the way like REIN.

Your line goes through both cab 1 and cab 7 on route to your property so you need to make it really clear to them that the solution is FTTC from the DSLAM at cab 7 like all your neighbours who are served from the same DP/pole as you.

if it goes through 1 and 7 and the primary is 1 it will remain on 1 - its sounds like it is out of distance (and was not cured into 7 in the first place ) . it all depends his premise is physically before the new cabinet as the cable runs or his property is after the new cabinet (if premises is before its very unlikely that will change and it will be due to the line loss / DB noise Rules (you cannot increase line length to worsen ADSL to force subscriber to move to fibre as this disadvantages copper only providers). if it is beyond the cabinet it should have been cured in and there is an error on the A form that was submitted and thats a records issue

Edited by Fastman3 (Thu 11-Mar-21 19:31:31)

I am past the closer cabinet. Ie: it goes cab1 - cab7 - me.

Andrews & Arnold & openreach understand what the problem is and what needs to be done with this new line. If they just hook up the spare pair to cabinet 1 despite what should have happened years ago, what has been requested of them by A&A and myself via my notes in the cabinets and what I'm going to tell them when they appear, then I can only assume they're deliberately being c**ts. If you'll pardon my French.

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

if it goes through 1 and 7 and the primary is 1 it will remain on 1 - its sounds like it is out of distance (and was not cured into 7 in the first place ) . it all depends his premise is physically before the new cabinet as the cable runs or his property is after the new cabinet (if premises is before its very unlikely that will change and it will be due to the line loss / DB noise Rules (you cannot increase line length to worsen ADSL to force subscriber to move to fibre as this disadvantages copper only providers). if it is beyond the cabinet it should have been cured in and there is an error on the A form that was submitted and thats a records issue

All other properties on the OP's pole/dp are on cab 7!!!!!, also if you put OP's property into DSL checker it says cab 7, if you put phone number in it says cab 1 so something is screwed up

Edited by deleted (Thu 11-Mar-21 21:13:07)

Have you seen my post of 5th March with a link ? It would be worth e-mailing Andrew Ferguson with your details. He can use his contacts at Openreach to look into the problem.

I have but I haven't emailed him. I have alot of avenues open, if I open another line of enquiry that's another set of people I have to convince about my problem.

I just got off the phone to SSE. They say they have detected (with their systems) that the source of interferance is coming from inside my house, I don't know how that is possible...

They're sending a Qube engineer round to do some tests. Who are these guys?

Well SSE are not helping at all, how can their systems detect interference in your house, sounds like absolute garbage to me and what has that got to do with being connected to the wrong DSLAM?

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Well SSE are not helping at all

Maybe they should stick to providing power rather than telecoms.

Good news- Someone at openreach now understands and acknowledges the problem with my existing line, even sounds like they're going to look at it at some point.

Bad news - The engineer came round to do the second line but was intending to just enable to spare pair in the existing cable. He had absoulutely no instructions on what his job was going to be before he turned up. He had to go away.

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

but was intending to just enable to spare pair in the existing cable

That wouldn't have been a problem as you need to use the spare pair to get back to the DP (on the pole) and at that point pick a spare pair back to the cab, did he say what DSLAM your FTTC was going to be served from?

abandnbythsystm

You would not have to convince Mr Saffron of anything. He can see the whole thread . He would need your e-mail as authority to deal on your behalf

I hereby give Mr saffron the authority to fix my problem.

He wasn't even from openreach he was from Kelly services. How can I be sure I wasn't going to get another line with exactly the same problem, when people on this forum warned me that's exactly what could happen if the work wasn't done with the right objective in mind.

Your line is routed via two cabinets .... doubtless, the new line would be routed via two cabs also.

The issue is which of these cabinets associated DSLAM your VDSL sync is coming from.

This is what Mr.Saffron *might* be able to assist with. Send him a PM

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

He wasn't even from Openreach he was from Kelly services. How can I be sure I wasn't going to get another line with exactly the same problem, when people on this forum warned me that's exactly what could happen if the work wasn't done with the right objective in mind.

As others a lot more clever than me have said contact Mr Saffron

Just another update, so others having the same problem can see that this kind of problem never ends. A&A are so far failing with OpenReach to get the new line installed and OpenReach, despite acknowlging the problem have gone silent and non-responsive about whether they're going to fix it any time soon. SSE have wiped their hands of the problem.

I've PM'd Mr Saffron, but unless he's like the boss of OpenReach, I'm not sure what he's going to be able to achieve.

Soon it will be time for some more affirmative action. Everyone needs a crusade.

In reply to a post by abandndbythsystm:

Just another update, so others having the same problem can see that this kind of problem never ends. A&A are so far failing with OpenReach to get the new line installed and OpenReach, despite acknowlging the problem have gone silent and non-responsive about whether they're going to fix it any time soon. SSE have wiped their hands of the problem.

I've PM'd Mr Saffron, but unless he's like the boss of OpenReach, I'm not sure what he's going to be able to achieve.

Soon it will be time for some more affirmative action. Everyone needs a crusade.

Given that today is a Sunday and Mr Saffron is a Founder of ThinkBB there's a chance he just doesn't monitor his emails on weekends, or he's seen it and already chasing it but hasn't replied. I doubt very much he's similar to those of OR and albeit I'm not familiar with him or the TBB Community I hardly doubt someone like himself would offer his services to one person but someone else, be patient (I'm sure you've heard that a few times throughout your journey) and let him catch up.