Which providers provide BTWholesale 1000 down 220 up?

Hi All

Our FTTPoD contract is about to end and we want to upgrade to the BTWholesale 1000/220 product. So far, it only looks like Cerberus Networks offer this, with other providers all capping the upload at 100. Cerberus charge about £100 more per month for effectively 100mbps upload increase. We probably could make do with 100, but I'd rather have the best our line is capable of. Does anyone know if BT business et al will supply the 1000/220 product?

Thanks

Felix

Not on its standard tariffs for small & medium.

On Corporate it looks like you have to ring to discuss.

Out of interest, what are you being quoted for 1000/220? Looking at a couple of our wholesale providers it's only about £40 less each month than a 1Gbps leased line - obviously leased lines are incredibly location dependent and you might not get anywhere near the same price.

It might be worth just taking a look rather than being fixed on going down the FTTP route. You could always keep the FTTP as a backup on a lower speed tier.

That's part of the issue, the only one I can find is Cerberus that charge £180 per month with a £495 installation for the 200 upload vs lots of providers that charge around £60 pm for 100 upload. If I could find some others, I'd have a better comparison base.

Leased line is a no go as we're in rural Devon which is why we went with the old FTTPoD pricing (to which we found out later Openreach had underquoted by about £20k but that was on them not us!). We also don't need the leased line guarantees either, especially with a 4G backup. In the thee years since having FTTP, it's not gone down once.

Edited by FibreFelix (Wed 23-Jun-21 11:02:58)

Might be worth considering the feasibility of taking the 900/100 service from any old provider & throwing it into a balancing/bonding router like AAISP do & getting closer to 200 upload that way. Not a perfect solution but infinitely more affordable than what Cerberus is charging.

Unless money isn't an issue kind of situation of course

In reply to a post by FibreFelix:

Leased line is a no go as we're in rural Devon

Have you checked recently? You might be surprised where some providers leased line networks go. Try leasedline.co.uk, linebroker.co.uk

I'm not aware of other providers selling the 1000/220 FTTP product. If upload is the most important factor there is the 550/165 product, sold as 450/150 by Cerberus at £125 per month, but with the same £495 setup. (However, 150M upload is not that much better than 110M upload)

A year or so ago there was talk of Openreach launching 550/550 and 1000/1000 on FTTP, and that these would be free upgrades to the 550/165 and 1000/220 products, but that has all gone quiet now.

Yep, still looking at around £400pm, which is a lot lower than it previously was but we just don't need that kind of guarantee in excess of standard FTTP. We're a hotel and nothing we have is mission critical enough to warrant spending that.

Upload isn't that important and if we have to we'll just stick with the 100mb upload, I was just curious to find out if anyone knew of other providers selling the 200mb upload product as it seems odd that the price jump is so high.

Still, I can't complain as 100mbps will still be a tripling of our current upload speed!

Gamma have it listed on their price lists, so if you find a partner or call them direct you can get a price.

For your use case though I'd be tempted to order two 900Mbps services from the likes of TalkTalk and Zen and load balance it, or have one service dedicated for guest usage and one for corporate stuff, failing over where necessary.

Edited by jpm (Wed 23-Jun-21 12:17:44)

In reply to a post by jpm:

Gamma have it listed on their price lists, so if you find a partner or call them direct you can get a price.

For your use case though I'd be tempted to order two 900Mbps services from the likes of TalkTalk and Zen and load balance it, or have one service dedicated for guest usage and one for corporate stuff, failing over where necessary.

Gamma do have it on their price list but it is very expensive.

Thanks
Dan

See what TalkTalk Business can offer you.

In reply to a post by FibreFelix:

Yep, still looking at around £400pm, which is a lot lower than it previously was but we just don't need that kind of guarantee in excess of standard FTTP. We're a hotel and nothing we have is mission critical enough to warrant spending that.

Upload isn't that important and if we have to we'll just stick with the 100mb upload, I was just curious to find out if anyone knew of other providers selling the 200mb upload product as it seems odd that the price jump is so high.

Still, I can't complain as 100mbps will still be a tripling of our current upload speed!

You seemed to me in your OP to emphasise the faster upload, but now say it "isn't that important". The BT page I linked to shows 900/104 at £58.95 plus Vat on a 24-month term.

The only snag I can see is it may involve Digital Voice, but many hotels I stay in no longer provide landline phones in rooms any more.

We'd like the faster upload purely because it's available and if we're going to be tied into a contract it's good to future proof somewhat, as guest demands change. There's nothing wrong with 100mbps but I just find it odd that very few providers offer the 200mb varient.

No issue with voice in this respect as that's a separate consideration for us.

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

See what TalkTalk Business can offer you.

TTB won’t go beyond 115 Mbps up on Openreach FTTP (Business Full Fibre 900)

In reply to a post by jpm:

Gamma have it listed on their price lists, so if you find a partner or call them direct you can get a price.

For your use case though I'd be tempted to order two 900Mbps services from the likes of TalkTalk and Zen and load balance it, or have one service dedicated for guest usage and one for corporate stuff, failing over where necessary.

I’d think that would be the best bang for the buck method get near enough 2000 Mbps down and 230 up for around £120 +VAT

BT Wholesale launched a product called Wholesale Ethernet FTTP in September last year

Seems to me to be somewhere between regular GEA FTTP and an EAD leased line service. Needs an available FTTP service, but offers an uncontended service using FTTP fibre infrastructure.

https://www.btwholesale.com/products-and-services/da...

Don’t know any CPs that offer it (yet) though….

https://www.trunknetworks.com/business-broadband
They have a 900/115 for £66 month
A lot of the smaller cp's sell it.
a few on this list
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/05/compar...

I finally found something that might give you an idea as to why this is the case. Openreach price list.

From 1/7/21 80/20 is £209.28 per annum. 1000/115 is £378.84. 1000/200 is £969.

So, from 80/20 to 1000/115 is a different of approx £170. The jump to 1000/200 is a difference of nearly £600. It is a large leap in Openreach pricing which is passed on to wholesale and then on to retail.

Standard installation for the normal tier services is £99.39. Anything with the higher uploads than the standard (eg 1000/200) is £500. So, £400 more expensive for install.

This is why the higher upload packages are much more expensive - that is how OpenReach have priced them and so the providers all have to pass on this much higher cost - no provider is going to be able to provide a significantly cheaper cost over OpenReach lines.

Edited by ian72 (Wed 23-Jun-21 14:38:45)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

https://www.trunknetworks.com/business-broadband
They have a 900/115 for £66 month
A lot of the smaller cp's sell it.

I think you missed the point: the original question was about 1000/220, not about 1000/115 (which is widely available, although usually marketed as 900/110)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

BT Wholesale launched a product called Wholesale Ethernet FTTP in September last year

Seems to me to be somewhere between regular GEA FTTP and an EAD leased line service. Needs an available FTTP service, but offers an uncontended service using FTTP fibre infrastructure.

https://www.btwholesale.com/products-and-services/da...

Don’t know any CPs that offer it (yet) though….

Surely this is just the same thing as FTTC Ethernet, and the mention of uncontended refers to BT Wholesale's bit - they aren't avoiding the PON contention as there's no Openreach product you can buy that avoids that.

Except that FTTC Ethernet caps out at far lower bandwidths.

It would be deeply misleading for them to describe it as an uncontended service if it was not.

As such for a (symmetric) 1 GbE Ethernet service the only way to achieve this on GPON would be for them to put such a service on a dedicated PON, rather than the usual 30-32 way shared split. That should not really be an issue as there’s apparently enough spare fibre brought up to the splitter node, and there would be spare ports back at the OLT. They would simply have to resplice your CBT port at the splitter and possibly at the Ag node to enable this.

In reply to a post by FibreFelix:

There's nothing wrong with 100mbps but I just find it odd that very few providers offer the 200mb varient.

500/165Mb/s and 1000/220Mb/s are 2 business targeted tiers.
They both come with a £500+vat install fee and between double and triple the annual rental cost of their lower upload equivalents.

Every other FTTP tier comes with a £99.39+vat install charge.

The reason so few sell it is mainly down to cost.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Except that FTTC Ethernet caps out at far lower bandwidths.

It would be deeply misleading for them to describe it as an uncontended service if it was not.

As such for a (symmetric) 1 GbE Ethernet service the only way to achieve this on GPON would be for them to put such a service on a dedicated PON, rather than the usual 30-32 way shared split. That should not really be an issue as there’s apparently enough spare fibre brought up to the splitter node, and there would be spare ports back at the OLT. They would simply have to resplice your CBT port at the splitter and possibly at the Ag node to enable this.

Yes, but the point being made is that *BT* can't do this, if *Openreach* don't offer it as a service.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Except that FTTC Ethernet caps out at far lower bandwidths.

It would be deeply misleading for them to describe it as an uncontended service if it was not.

As such for a (symmetric) 1 GbE Ethernet service the only way to achieve this on GPON would be for them to put such a service on a dedicated PON, rather than the usual 30-32 way shared split. That should not really be an issue as there’s apparently enough spare fibre brought up to the splitter node, and there would be spare ports back at the OLT. They would simply have to resplice your CBT port at the splitter and possibly at the Ag node to enable this.

It's regular GPON, with the standard 32:1 split.

Edit: more info
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/09/bt-lau...

A spokesperson for BTW told ISPreview.co.uk:

“Each connection is provided with a dedicated fibre line into the premises. However, FTTP in the Openreach domain is passed across a network that can be contended at the PONS and splitter. Each service is built using a separate VLAN which is dedicated to the service connection. FTTP has both prioritised and peak rates with the prioritised rate behaving like a dedicated product.

In relation to Ethernet FTTP, BT Wholesale are using separate Cablelink infrastructure to connect the Openreach L2 switch to our BT 21CN Ethernet switch than we use for our Broadband portfolio infrastructure. This way we can ensure contention decisions can be separated between Broadband and Ethernet.”

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 23-Jun-21 18:10:01)

Thanks John.

So it’s “uncontended”… but just only up to the prioritised bit rate available for the PON.

So a 1 GbE Ethernet service would be purely burst rate. The “uncontended” rate would have be limited to 330 down and 110 up on the PON, even with far higher bandwidth potentially available from the cablelink.

In reply to a post by jpm:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

BT Wholesale launched a product called Wholesale Ethernet FTTP in September last year

Seems to me to be somewhere between regular GEA FTTP and an EAD leased line service. Needs an available FTTP service, but offers an uncontended service using FTTP fibre infrastructure.

https://www.btwholesale.com/products-and-services/da...

Don’t know any CPs that offer it (yet) though….

Surely this is just the same thing as FTTC Ethernet, and the mention of uncontended refers to BT Wholesale's bit - they aren't avoiding the PON contention as there's no Openreach product you can buy that avoids that.

I'd agree with you on this, it appears to be Ethernet over FTTP like Ethernet over FTTC

Thanks
Dan