BT Business 900Mpbs

Well just ordered BT Business 900/110 with failover dongle and digital phone line for £58.95/pm. About the same as we currently pay just for 300/50.

It comes with a hub (Hub 2) but we run a UniFi USG-Pro4 (and I'd upgrade to UXG if it is released, might pull the trigger on UDM Pro if I have to). It seems I can avoid the BT Hub and set the connection up straight in the USG but that presumably means no Failover to EE but avoids double NAT. I do use VPN on occasion (when on holiday) to check network is working and security cameras and such.

I could set up the BT Hub so it works and then manually plug it back on failure at which point it will presumably fail over to EE. But would be better if it could be left in place and still have everything work. Anyone any idea on VPN pass through or similar if I leave the hub permanently connected?

The digital phone seems to suggest it can be connected to POE which infers it doesn't have to be connected to the hub directly. Does anybody know if this is actually the case? Will I still need the BT hub acting as router.
I haven't ported a number and just told them its a complete new line, the existing copper line isn't in my name and I have no authority to change it. Want time to check suitability of VOIP and sort handsets. We currently have 5 DECT handsets and couldn't do with any less (its a big house).
Any pointers appreciated.
Dave

The BT supplied phone is totally independent - it is a Yealink with locked firmware and set up. You cannot add lines to it or use teh line on another VoIP base.

You can get extra Yealink handsets through BT but cannot get it to work with Gigaset.


I run PPPoE direct into a UDM-Pro with v4 and v6, the BT hub and dongle are sitting there idel, just in case.

You can keep using the BT hub and put your firewall as a DMZ host to forward all ports to it.
It would still be double NAT but would fail over to the 4G

Thanks
Dan

FTTP in a rural setting has been extremely reliable in my experience. I’m not sure you’ll honestly see much out of the 4G backup. I suppose it’s good to have though just in case.

I’m not really much of a fan of the BT hub setup with their phone service. Too restrictive for me. I prefer to be able to roll my own solution and use whatever voice provider with whatever devices etc. But that’s just my preference.

I've never used a BT Home Hub, but you could avoid the double NAT *if* it lets you add static routes.

Text
1 23 45 67 89 1011 1213 14	.  |   ONT   |   BTH   |.1    | --+--+----- 192.168.1.0/24       |      |.2     your-rtr      | |    ---+-|--- 10.0.0.0/24        |    -----+--- 10.0.1.0/24

On BTH: add static route to 10.0.0.0/8 via 192.168.1.2
On your-rtr: set WAN addr to 192.168.1.2/24, default gateway 192.168.1.1, disable NAT

In reply to a post by MHC:

The BT supplied phone is totally independent - it is a Yealink with locked firmware and set up. You cannot add lines to it or use teh line on another VoIP base.

You can get extra Yealink handsets through BT but cannot get it to work with Gigaset.

I run PPPoE direct into a UDM-Pro with v4 and v6, the BT hub and dongle are sitting there idel, just in case.

I think this is what I have envisaged as the likely worst case scenario. I don't have automatic failover because I need to plug it in, but its there if I need it, And the phone line as its a new number I can either use it or not. 4-extra handsets that aren't of my choosing possibly means it won't get used.
So I am still only paying £58.95 for 900Mbps on business usage - which is fine with me.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

FTTP in a rural setting has been extremely reliable in my experience. I’m not sure you’ll honestly see much out of the 4G backup. I suppose it’s good to have though just in case.

I’m not really much of a fan of the BT hub setup with their phone service. Too restrictive for me. I prefer to be able to roll my own solution and use whatever voice provider with whatever devices etc. But that’s just my preference.

Yes agreed FTTP has been rock solid since installed, and will continue to be until it isn't! But the premium was almost nil. £58.95 is competitive on business, and TalkTalk is pennies cheaper on an ongoing basis. It does offer 3 free months out of 24 so it ends up being a choice of no bill for 3-months (£180) versus failover protection for 24-months. So £7.50/month for failover protection and a free VOIP line which I can learn about VOIP with on a no pressure basis.
We pay £55/month +VAT for 330/50 plus phone line. So £58.95 for 900/100 and failover and VOIP is a bargain.

Plus we run holiday cottages, if it ever fails then the failover might save us from 1* on Tripadvisor.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I've never used a BT Home Hub, but you could avoid the double NAT *if* it lets you add static routes.

Text
1 23 45 67 89 1011 1213 14	.  |   ONT   |   BTH   |.1    | --+--+----- 192.168.1.0/24       |      |.2     your-rtr      | |    ---+-|--- 10.0.0.0/24        |    -----+--- 10.0.1.0/24

On BTH: add static route to 10.0.0.0/8 via 192.168.1.2
On your-rtr: set WAN addr to 192.168.1.2/24, default gateway 192.168.1.1, disable NAT

Yeah its the 'if it will let me' I'll have to sort, in the middle of a busy summer of guests & my kids demanding WiFi, working from home in the day job etc. etc. Will be sitting waiting for guests to go to bed so I can down the router and try things out. Not much experience of DMZ/Static routes. Only self taught but can handle VLANs and other stuff so I'm sure I'll work it out.

I'm hopefully overlapping Cerberus and BT by a month so we have zero downtime. I'll use that time and some other spare old router to try the static route stuff (now I know its a potential route).
Cheers
Dave
Sometimes its just the understanding of what you can do thats hard. Once I know what I'm googling for I can most likely get it sorted.

Can't you plug the ONT into WAN 1 on the USG - configure the PPPOE as the primary connection.

Plug the EE dongle into the HH and set its IP to be a different subnet (e.g. 192.168.10.1) and then plug that into WAN 2 of the USG and configure as failover in the controller.

The HH is permanently connected to the EE dongle but is only in use if needed if your FTTP goes down.

I have done this on my line (admittedly g.fast not FTTP and using udm pro) and it works without any issues. I have seen that there is something to do with fault logging if the EE dongle is in use but as no traffic is passing over it then not sure if that would count and have not had anything from BT in the last 4 months since I set up this configuration.

Edited by NGDragon (Wed 30-Jun-21 15:56:37)

I am on a 300/50 at £51.95/month! So a reasonable price for 900/110

I did find an "issue" with the BT Business Hub in that it restricted the upstream to around 33-35 Mbps, whereas a Residential Hub or direct PPPoE gave just under 50. There is the possibility the bug/issue may still be there and restrict the 110 to a lower level.

I have three other VoIP numbers which are routed through my Gigaset base and those are used most of te time. The single BT one is there and rarely used - some people still use teh number or for outgoing 0800 calls.

You may have just saved me some experimenting - that is my plan for here.

In reply to a post by NGDragon:

Can't you plug the ONT into WAN 1 on the USG - configure the PPPOE as the primary connection.

Plug the EE dongle into the HH and set its IP to be a different subnet (e.g. 192.168.10.2) and then plug that into WAN 2 of the USG and configure as failover in the controller.

The HH is permanently connected to the EE dongle but is only in use if needed if your FTTP goes down.

I have done this on my line (admittedly g.fast not FTTP and using udm pro) and it works without any issues. I have seen that there is something to do with fault logging if the EE dongle is in use but as no traffic is passing over it then not sure if that would count and have not had anything from BT in the last 4 months since I set up this configuration.

If I understand correctly, the Home Hub is permanently disconnected (because it is powered up but not connected to the ONT) and permanently failed over to the EE dongle. But no traffic is directed to the Home Hub as it is WAN2 and only triggered on failover. Makes sense. and yes I can see that it might keep reporting to BT that it has failed, and presumably sends keep alive/status/connection traffic only.

That could work. Never played with failover the USG-Pro but have another site I manage with 4 connections load balanced on a Draytek (ADSL, GSM, WISP & Starlink) so should be straight forward-is.

Cheers
Dave

In reply to a post by MHC:

I am on a 300/50 at £51.95/month! So a reasonable price for 900/110

I did find an "issue" with the BT Business Hub in that it restricted the upstream to around 33-35 Mbps, whereas a Residential Hub or direct PPPoE gave just under 50. There is the possibility the bug/issue may still be there and restrict the 110 to a lower level.

I have three other VoIP numbers which are routed through my Gigaset base and those are used most of te time. The single BT one is there and rarely used - some people still use teh number or for outgoing 0800 calls.

I saw some of the upstream issues last year limiting throughput. I have kinda assumed it must be sortable as I haven't seen much of it lately. Last year they were all home working etc and getting used to things so possibly not able to troubleshoot glitches like that well in the beginning. They have promised me 100 so they better deliver!

Need to get my head around the reliability and benefit of VOIP as previous experiences have been patchy at both previous employers and my one dabble at home. In theory it sounds great having the home phone ring on an App. We have a big site with good WiFi coverage, we currently divert to mobile after 4 ring-rings but need 5 handsets in the house to grab the phone before it diverts. Having it work anywhere across site would be awesome. But having it not work as its patchy is worse than divert.

Dave

It was quite simple in the end and works really well. You only get a slight blip in connection when it swaps over from one to the other and is hardly noticeable unless you are gaming!!

Forgot to add, disable wireless on the HH, and turn off DHCP..

I can dig out all of the settings on both udm pro and HH if needed.

Yep, that's how it is showing if you log into the HH - FTTP not connected, 4G Assure - connected.

UDM pro shows

WAN1 - My BT IP address
WAN2 - 192.168.10.2 - a static ip relating to the HH address range.

The only thing I have no idea about is the voip side of things as not using that. Does it go via the HH via a dedicated port or can it run through any ethernet port on a network?

Edited by NGDragon (Wed 30-Jun-21 15:56:07)

The BT Hub - no problems for me. The UDM-Pro, they woukld be useful, when you have time, so if you can put them in a Message to me that would be great.

Getting the TBB BQM to work was a little challange with UDM-Pro settings but now have both v4 and v6 monitored.

The OP is using BT business, so a slightly different hub, and teh phone bas just needs an Ethenet port.

In reply to a post by NGDragon:

Can't you plug the ONT into WAN 1 on the USG - configure the PPPOE as the primary connection.

Plug the EE dongle into the HH and set its IP to be a different subnet (e.g. 192.168.10.1) and then plug that into WAN 2 of the USG and configure as failover in the controller.

The HH is permanently connected to the EE dongle but is only in use if needed if your FTTP goes down.

I have done this on my line (admittedly g.fast not FTTP and using udm pro) and it works without any issues. I have seen that there is something to do with fault logging if the EE dongle is in use but as no traffic is passing over it then not sure if that would count and have not had anything from BT in the last 4 months since I set up this configuration.

That ought to work beautifully for pure broadband but, without using the 4G modem I can’t see how the BT voice service would work. No biggie I suppose if the OP uses another regular VoIP provider.

OP has ordered BT *business* where the voice service is handled by a separate VOIP phone, not by the ATA on the hub.

Good point. I was definitely thinking of the domestic hub. As such it should all work via the Ubiquiti.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Good point. I was definitely thinking of the domestic hub. As such it should all work via the Ubiquiti.

Mine works through the UDM-Pro, then USW-24-Gen2 switch and fully visible, with stats in the Network Management pages.


I have both the BT provided Yealink W60B and a Gigaset N300A-IP connected that way.

Edited by MHC (Thu 01-Jul-21 10:29:27)

The only issue I could see would be that I thought on the business product you would keep the same WAN IP on the 4G failover.
So the 4G failover being on all the time may cause issues.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by MHC:

I have both the BT provided Yealink W60B and a Gigaset N300A-IP connected that way.

The Gigaset looks ideal as will keep the PSTN line for business until I am 100% that VOIP beats it (DAB still demonstrably worse than FM shows not everything digital is better). If I could run one set of handsets for both landline and VOIP that would be great. I guess I would have to spring for an alternative VOIP provider to test and just plain ignore the BT digital line.

None of the costs really bother me as the value of a successful call far outweighs cost of service. Not managing to take a customer call or having it drop out costs £££.

What handsets do you use.

Dave

I have a Gigaset N300A-IP which handles 5 x VoIP + 1 copper PSTN

There are five handsets - three models:

SL450H - small and compacy
C620H - OK
S850H - larger

For long calls the S850H and you can rest on te shoulder, the SL450 is nice too. The C620 - utility ones and only have them as they were part of the original deal.

My last purchase was: https://www.ligo.co.uk/siemens-gigaset-sl450a-go-cor... the base is shown as a "GO" but that is what it tends to be referred when supplied as a kit.

You can direct lines to specific phones if you wish and there are three answer phones built in, so differing incoming numbers can go to each.

I no longer have PSTN - all VoIP and no issues with it.


You just need to make sure it is the N300A-IP or "GO" and not the N300

Edited by MHC (Thu 01-Jul-21 12:26:12)

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:

So £7.50/month for failover protection and a free VOIP line which I can learn about VOIP with on a no pressure basis.

The BT VoIP solution (business or residential) is I'm sure quite a good service in itself, but it is for all intents and purposes very much a "walled garden" solution. There is not really any scope to use your own VoIP capable adapters, DECT bases or for that matter an Asterisk-type (software PBX) solution. All of which can offer incredible versatility and richness in the types of voice solutions that can de delivered and deployed on whatever hardware and software you like. I would say your learning about VOIP would be very limited if you're simply using BT's voice solution.

In my experience and opinion a 'better' solution (when one wants a bit more than just a couple of vanilla handsets and a basic service), is to try an independent third party VOIP service provider. In this way you can run telephone/voice as just another service (like email or web hosting) over whatever provider and type of internet connection you have, at minimal (or potentially zero) monthly ongoing cost.

If you wish to be able to "roam" and receive and make calls over the VoIP 'landlines' - by that I mean roam either on your internal wifi network or for that matter anywhere your smartphone can get mobile service - I would recommend that you investigate the Acrobits Groundwire smartphone apps. These are a fresh generation of smartphone app that enable effectively seamless connectivity to your VOIP provider. The very important thing is that the app DOES NOT have to run in the background on your smartphone to enable calls to be received. Instead the VOIP registration is 'held' permanently open by the Acrobits servers to your VOIP provider. The phone then uses the "native" push services within iOS and Android to receive the calls. This saves battery life on your phone, as its just another push notification service and works seamlessly whether your phone is connected by WiFi or via the mobile network. It honestly works brilliantly.

Yes agreed.

Note the £7.50 is only the amortised 'free' three months from Talk Talks best offer (which someone pointed out was cheaper than BT) and I'm actually paying £3 more than now (Cerberus) for 900Mbps rather than 300Mbps.

I guess I need to get over the two [censored] experiences I have had with VOIP. Main was circa 10-years ago at a software company I worked for. Dropped calls, stuttering sound, missed calls, clients unable to call. I had to pull the sales team off and insist they only used their mobiles it was that embarrassing. IT were working with provider to improve things for months and months.
And the other a trial service with YAY probably 3-years ago. Call quality when on mobile using the App was dreadful;. It might be signal issues given we are rural. But then if the signal is no good I'd rather not take a call then frustrate the caller with [censored] quality. We only used it to trial between safe parties but wouldn't have wanted it as my main phone.

The Gigaset hardware looks ideal as can support multiple DECT stations which will help around the house. (think large old mill house with solid walls). We don't need a mega solution as the only employees with access to the phone are myself and the wife (gardeners and cleaners aren't taking calls). So our tech requirement is low. My desire for it to be as glitch free as the copper line is the biggest requirement.

Thanks for the pointer to Acrobits, I 'll check that out.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:

The Gigaset hardware looks ideal as can support multiple DECT stations which will help around the house. (think large old mill house with solid walls). We don't need a mega solution as the only employees with access to the phone are myself and the wife (gardeners and cleaners aren't taking calls). So our tech requirement is low. My desire for it to be as glitch free as the copper line is the biggest requirement.

I used Gigaset N300A IP bases for a a good few years. They are a neat solution and pretty flexible with the capacity to use multiple VoIP accounts and have a PSTN connection as well.

DECT in a domestic situation is usually excellent. Much better signal penetration and range than WiFi.

On a larger deployments, possibly outdoors with range and signal concerns, I would look closely at what is actually possible with multiple DECT base stations etc. It's not necessarily going to be an 'out of the box' solution and getting DECT handsets to roam, and automatically connect to a particular base may require some work.

If you can get either of decent WiFi cover or decent mobile (data) service, with your phone, the Acrobits solution should work well. For the one of cost of the app (they do a resi and a business version) which is around a tenner and sign up to a free VOIP sub with a landline number from Sipgate (Basic service) you should be able to test whether its viable and workable now.

It sounds as though you have a large area to cover. There are Gigaset repeater which work seamlessly: https://www.ligo.co.uk/gigaset-repeater

From memory this is what I did to set up.

Home Hub:
connect the wifi dongle to the USB
and connect a laptop to the LAN side of things to configure.
login to portal - you should see that the EE connection is active.
Disable wireless
Disable DHCP
Change allocated IP to 192.168.10.1 (you can use whatever you want ) and subnet 255.255.255.0 (you'll then need to manually change the laptop to match the range to finish configuring).
Firewall - Disable
Add 192.168.10.2 to DMZ (not sure if this bit is essential but did it).

UDM Pro

You should already have set up WAN1 as your PPPoE so nothing to change here.

Insert the SFP to RJ45 into port 10 (labelled WAN2) and plug HH into this.
Go to settings - Internet > WAN2 (edit)
Leave all settings as default and go to IPv4 Connection section
Connection - Static IP
IP Address - 192.168.10.2 (as in DMZ setting on hub)
Subnet - 255.255.255.0
Router 192.168.10.1
Click Apply changes and the settings should update. Test that it fails over by pulling the connection into WAN 1.

I didn't try and set up IPv6 on the failover as didn't see much point as v4 works and is there as backup.