TalkTalk Business, have they gone 'digital voice'

I found the copper side of my TTB line cut today. I have been using FTTP for internet and copper for phone calls since early March, TTB 'chat line' insist I have not had a copper service since March, they insist my phone number only relates to my FTTP service!
Whilst I await contact from me escalating my problem it occurs that maybe they have gone to a 'digital voice' type product.

Did you migrate from a previous Talktalk FTTC/ADSL service?

The service you pay for will be shown on your bills. As far as I know, all Talktalk FTTP services are without voice, so your bill would have to show a standalone voice-only service if that's what you expect to have. (I don't know if they sell such a thing; I can't find it on their website)

Hence it's possible that they accidentally left the voice service on the copper line when you switched to voiceless FTTP, and they finally got around to disabling it.

If that's the case, you'd better get your number migrated to a VOIP provider, before it gets lost in the ether.

I was with TT FTTC residential, I then moved to TTB with a promise of FTTP and copper line with 'allday calls',
The first change was a straight swap of FTTC, the installation of the hybrid line was delayed due to cv-19, but went ahead in March.
I am billed for Fibre and 'allday calls', can't recall the complete breakdown of bill at moment.
The chat line operator says the phone number only relates to the FTTP and no copper service, when I first signed up AFAIK they had no VOIP type service which is why I had the hybrid line, I've read somewhere they where going to introduce a VOIP service.
One oddity, I have received several sales type emails from them saying FTTP was available in my area if I wanted to move to it, which seems to have ignored that I'm already on FTTP as well as copper, my assumption was the system saw the copper line and generated the email.

I've taken out a new TTB contract recently, and it's due to be installed next week. This is FTTC and they are installing a new phone line with a phone number, so they aren't doing digital voice yet. My order lists FTTC broadband and the telephone line rental separately.

Edited by jpm (Fri 16-Jul-21 12:31:22)

I've just brought up my bill, it shows.
Charges for OGEA******** £29.95
Charges for (my phone number) £10.00

Clicking to expand phone number it shows the £10 as 'reoccurring charge' which is expected, and then I can bring up a list of calls.

Clicking on OGEA******* it shows £29.95 as 'reoccurring charge', once again as expected, it also has a button to bring up calls, these show as a blank page.

Then they can't argue with that: they've agreed to provide a service, and you're paying for it! That's assuming that the £10 is line rental, not just a calls add-on. However they shouldn't charge you for a calls add-on without a corresponding voice service.

I did find the voice services from TTB: they start at £16.95 (I guess +VAT). TTB can also sell you a SIP trunk but you'll need your own VOIP phone to work with that.

I haven't heard any announcement of Talktalk or TTB moving to digital voice services. It would require new routers with ATA port or DECT base station. Or does the router they provided have this already?

I'm beginning to think the contract wasn't set up correctly, my account shows three products.

OGEA*******, Business Full Fibre 100, connected, (starts) Mar 16, 2021, (finishes) Mar 15, 2023

(telephone number), Complete Fibre Broadband 2020, disconnected, (starts) Jan 19, 2021, (finishes) Jan 18, 2023

(telephone number), Business Full Fibre Voice, Connected, (starts) Jan 18, 2021, (finishes) Mar 15, 2023

Up till now my bill has been complicated by two different discounts, at first it was a discount per month, then it was the three months free internet offer, now it seems to have settled on just two parts a bill for 'Business Full Fibre 100, and a bill for 'anytime calls'.

Whatever it's damn annoying, this morning I managed to get a 'hens tooth' i.e. a telephone call from GP, it totally dropped on mobile, had to be driven 2 miles up road to get good signal, was told I had to phone consultant at hospital, of cause I didn't have all the relevant paperwork with me, so had to be driven back home then out again to make call.
Whilst my power and water supplier have me listed as 'vulnerable' I don't meet TT's criteria for this, "computer says no".

In reply to a post by burble:

Whilst my power and water supplier have me listed as 'vulnerable' I don't meet TT's criteria for this, "computer says no".

I wonder if that's because you're taking a business service, not residential.

telephone number), Business Full Fibre Voice, Connected, (starts) Jan 18, 2021, (finishes) Mar 15, 2023

Would imply, to my inexperienced mind, like they are providing a VOIP based call service to you.
Are you using the CP supplied router, and if so, does it have a telephone jack on it somewhere ? Have you checked this for dial tone ?

I know of some who have gone for Business Services becasue they can get a 4 hour response time (or better) which could be critical for a vulnerable person. Vulnerable on a rsidential service may "jump the queue" but will they get same day? Unlikely, so a rapid response business could be the reason.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by burble:

Whilst my power and water supplier have me listed as 'vulnerable' I don't meet TT's criteria for this, "computer says no".

I wonder if that's because you're taking a business service, not residential.

They wouldn't allow it on residential either, but they might use it as an excuse on a business service, they didn't say that was reason. I don't suppose anyone thinks that a 'vulnerable' person might be self employed or run a business. Still I'm improving almost daily, which is why they said it wasn't allowed,

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

telephone number), Business Full Fibre Voice, Connected, (starts) Jan 18, 2021, (finishes) Mar 15, 2023

Would imply, to my inexperienced mind, like they are providing a VOIP based call service to you.
Are you using the CP supplied router, and if so, does it have a telephone jack on it somewhere ? Have you checked this for dial tone ?

The phone has always been plugged into a standard mk4 socket on the copper, when I discussed the service this was part of the agreement. I've dug out the emails and sent them on to TTB.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I know of some who have gone for Business Services becasue they can get a 4 hour response time (or better) which could be critical for a vulnerable person. Vulnerable on a rsidential service may "jump the queue" but will they get same day? Unlikely, so a rapid response business could be the reason.

I have been told my problem has been escalated and to expect a response in 48hrs!

But are you using the CP supplied router, and if so does it have a phone jack on the rear of it ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But are you using the CP supplied router, and if so does it have a phone jack on the rear of it ?

Sorry forgot to answer that bit.
It's the Sagemcom router with no phone jack, looks the same as the standard TalkTalk router with same logo's, but is set up to connect to TTB. I have two of these from TTB, when the engineers came to fit fibre they plugged in both, one to copper, other to ONT, at sometime whilst I was in hospital the one plugged in copper lost sync, which I wasn't worried about as FTTP has worked perfectly.
I have another of the same routers from TT residential, I swapped to this as the LED is duller and less distracting, but it wouldn't connect to TTB. There is no discernible differance in the routers, model number is the same.

It seems odd to me that you are being billed for what sounds like a VOIP service, but they don’t supply anyway to simply connect a phone handset to it.

Does anyone know what TT do if they provide a SOGEA line, how does a voice service get provided in that scenario ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But are you using the CP supplied router, and if so does it have a phone jack on the rear of it ?

Unfortunately for burble my TTB supplied router (for FTTP) never made it out of the box and I’m away for the weekend now so can’t check to see what ports it has.

I’m sure one of the other TTB connected folk can confirm if there’s an FXS voice port on it.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But are you using the CP supplied router, and if so does it have a phone jack on the rear of it ?

Unfortunately for burble my TTB supplied router (for FTTP) never made it out of the box and I’m away for the weekend now so can’t check to see what ports it has.

I’m sure one of the other TTB connected folk can confirm if there’s an FXS voice port on it.

Just had a look on our TTB Router and there isn't a phone jack - Not sure if that's because we are on a data only service or what, but nothing here.

Yesterday TTB finally decided to respond to my 'case' and call me on my mobile, fortunately I was at a house which actually gets a mobile signal.
I was told there was "a break in the under ground cable", and could I agree a date and time when I would be home for a engineer visit. I agreed to be home for this afternoon, well I've not had any message from Openreach so I'm guessing nobodies coming, time will tell.
Meanwhile I asked for conformation that I had a contract for copper phone line, talk about getting blood out of a stone! All I could get as an answer was "I'm from fibre team back office and am sorting out the phone line problem".
It looks like the repair to phoneline will be a week after being reported if I'm lucky.

Well 'I've had no contact today, but the phone is now working, not sure when it was fixed, as I could have done with going out earlier it would have been nice to at least had a call.

Glad it's fixed. Possibly demonstrates one of the advantages of VOIP though: you can still get your calls from anywhere there's a working IP connection.

In reply to a post by burble:

Well 'I've had no contact today, but the phone is now working, not sure when it was fixed, as I could have done with going out earlier it would have been nice to at least had a call.

Make sure that you’re credited pro rata for the time the service was not working / unavailable.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by burble:

Well 'I've had no contact today, but the phone is now working, not sure when it was fixed, as I could have done with going out earlier it would have been nice to at least had a call.

Make sure that you’re credited pro rata for the time the service was not working / unavailable.

Will be looking into to that later.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Glad it's fixed. Possibly demonstrates one of the advantages of VOIP though: you can still get your calls from anywhere there's a working IP connection.

I considered VOIP, but at the time there where issues with transferring my service, porting my number, and getting FTTP laid on, all at the same time, on my next renewal VOIP should be a easier option.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Glad it's fixed. Possibly demonstrates one of the advantages of VOIP though: you can still get your calls from anywhere there's a working IP connection.

Absolutely. For the benefit of the OP (not preaching to the converted 😀);

- migrating to VoIP with an independent third party voice provider means you can seamlessly keep your “landline” number through any future ISP moves/migrations. It truly decouples the physical line from the provision of voice service - less conscious or unconscious provider tie ins.

- If you choose your VoIP provider wisely you can save the monthly line rental and pay precisely nothing per month for the provision of a basic no frills service. Call costs are typically far cheaper too, but for the receipt of calls it can cost nil over the long term.

- landline number can also be accessed anywhere on the planet you carry your mobile / can receive service too. Installing the new generation of VoIP softphones like Acrobits Groundwire for a few quid, means the app doesn’t need to be kept running to receive calls on the device. You have full access to your address book, get all the services present like caller ID and voicemail. It cleverly uses Acrobits servers to keep the VoIP connection with your VoIP provider “alive” and handles all the ‘messaging’ etc with the phone. All works seamlessly with iOS or Android push pull notifications. No effect on battery life etc. Brilliant and far superior in all respects, in my humble view, to all previous attempts at smartphone VoIP apps.

I’ll get off my VoIP soapbox now 🤣

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 22-Jul-21 10:28:36)

Well today I checked the case online to see if any reply to my request for compensation for loss of service.
I was somewhat surprised to see entered today "Thank you for your call today, your query has been resolved as discussed during our conversation. If you require future assistance please don’t hesitate to contact us."
As I've never had any conversation about the case since 20th July I'd like to know who the've spoken too.

Well it seems that TTB have decided not be offering any credit for loss of service as "as we have fixed the fault within 10 working days which in guide with OFCOM is a suitable timescale to repair a fault"
p.s. Funny that, as the only thing I can see on Ofcom is 2 working days, although it was actually from Friday morning to sometime Wednesday.

Edited by burble (Tue 03-Aug-21 15:59:41)

In reply to a post by burble:

Well it seems that TTB have decided not be offering any credit for loss of service as "as we have fixed the fault within 10 working days which in guide with OFCOM is a suitable timescale to repair a fault"
p.s. Funny that, as the only thing I can see on Ofcom is 2 working days, although it was actually from Friday morning to sometime Wednesday.

Just had a look myself here; TalkTalk Business Broadband Service Level Transparency Requirements for SME Customers:

"TalkTalkBusiness does not offer guaranteed service level credits for the following scenarios:
o In the event of loss of service
o Delayed activation
o Missed Engineer appointments"

So then as you say referring back to the Ofcom voluntary code of practise for automatic compensation:

Service issue 2: Automatic compensation for a delayed repair following loss of service to a fixed line or broadband service
14. Subject to paragraph 40 (exceptions) a Communications Provider must pay automatic compensation to a customer if:
a. a customer reports a Total Loss of Service in relation to their fixed line or broadband service to their Communications Provider; and
b. following an engineer visit or remote testing and diagnosis, a Total Loss of Service is identified and a fault is (or should have been) recorded on that line or service; and
c. such fault is not resolved by 11.59pm on the day two working days after the fault is reported by a customer (the “Payment Trigger Time”), unless the customer has requested a later date for repair. For example, if a fault is reported on a Monday, compensation will become payable if the fault has not been fixed by the Payment Trigger Time of 11.59pm on Wednesday.

Seeing as you reported the fault on a Friday, compensation becomes payable if the fault has not been fixed by the Payment Trigger Time of 11.59pm on Tuesday.

Small beer perhaps, but if you are to purse it, then I can't see how they can argue with the timeline.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Small beer perhaps, but if you are to purse it, then I can't see how they can argue with the timeline.

I have pointed out the relevant Ofcom terms, and 'the balls in there court' at the moment. Whilst it's hardly worth chasing them for this outage, I'm not willing to set a precedence whereby in future they can leave me with no service for two weeks and not expect to credit me.

I am just wondering - you have a TalkTalk Business service - is that correct? If so then I wonder if the Ofcom Consumer compensation has any effect as if this is considered a business contract then it may be covered by business terms and conditions and therefore not impacted by the consumer rules?

In reply to a post by burble:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Small beer perhaps, but if you are to purse it, then I can't see how they can argue with the timeline.

I have pointed out the relevant Ofcom terms, and 'the balls in there court' at the moment. Whilst it's hardly worth chasing them for this outage, I'm not willing to set a precedence whereby in future they can leave me with no service for two weeks and not expect to credit me.

Absolutely. Tis small beer this time around, and probably not worth the stamps as they say. However the precedent cannot be set, pay a business premium for a service that is not delivered due to an outage. If the account manager can't see past that, despite "...not offer guaranteed service credits" then it'd be straight to dispute resolution.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

"TalkTalkBusiness does not offer guaranteed service level credits for the following scenarios:
o In the event of loss of service

Makes you wonder under what circumstances they *do* provide service credits??

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

"TalkTalkBusiness does not offer guaranteed service level credits for the following scenarios:
o In the event of loss of service

Makes you wonder under what circumstances they *do* provide service credits??

Buy cheap. Get cheap.

[Saying that I am a customer 😎. Cerberus they aint]

In reply to a post by ian72:

I am just wondering - you have a TalkTalk Business service - is that correct? If so then I wonder if the Ofcom Consumer compensation has any effect as if this is considered a business contract then it may be covered by business terms and conditions and therefore not impacted by the consumer rules?

This is now their line, they have backtracked on it being an Ofcom term, and it's their own terms.
Well that's the price I've paid for getting the service swapped over with no downtime and the elements I want, I can accept that as I agreed to the t&c's.
What has been the real eyeopener for me is the misinformation that TTB have told me on this one simple problem, I'll bare this in mind when it comes to contract renewal, and if anyone asks about their customer service will point out that so far for me it has been well down on TT residential!

Sorry to dig up an old thread but was searching for TTB Digital voice as I had a quote of £32 but for what was not clarified so I have re-opened the ticket and asked for clarification or a sales call.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Sorry to dig up an old thread but was searching for TTB Digital voice as I had a quote of £32 but for what was not clarified so I have re-opened the ticket and asked for clarification or a sales call.

I've never got to the bottom of how my telephone service has been set up.
It's listed on my account as 'Business Full Fibre Voice', but it's a analogue service on a copper line, it's a anytime UK and mobile calls package at £12.72 inc VAT.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Glad it's fixed. Possibly demonstrates one of the advantages of VOIP though: you can still get your calls from anywhere there's a working IP connection.

Absolutely. For the benefit of the OP (not preaching to the converted 😀);

- migrating to VoIP with an independent third party voice provider means you can seamlessly keep your “landline” number through any future ISP moves/migrations. It truly decouples the physical line from the provision of voice service - less conscious or unconscious provider tie ins.

- If you choose your VoIP provider wisely you can save the monthly line rental and pay precisely nothing per month for the provision of a basic no frills service. Call costs are typically far cheaper too, but for the receipt of calls it can cost nil over the long term.

- landline number can also be accessed anywhere on the planet you carry your mobile / can receive service too. Installing the new generation of VoIP softphones like Acrobits Groundwire for a few quid, means the app doesn’t need to be kept running to receive calls on the device. You have full access to your address book, get all the services present like caller ID and voicemail. It cleverly uses Acrobits servers to keep the VoIP connection with your VoIP provider “alive” and handles all the ‘messaging’ etc with the phone. All works seamlessly with iOS or Android push pull notifications. No effect on battery life etc. Brilliant and far superior in all respects, in my humble view, to all previous attempts at smartphone VoIP apps.

I’ll get off my VoIP soapbox now 🤣
[/quote

Yep, that's my setup as well!