new fibre install out in the countryside

Morning all, we have an engineer visit scheduled for tomorrow.
My current understanding is this is for an FTTP survey. But an email just received says :
"What's on your engineer's to-do list?
Your engineer will:
• upgrade your master phone socket
• set up your broadband
• connect a device of your choice
• show off your incredible new broadband speed
"

To me that sounds more like the final visit. Anyone able to comment specifically on this email message?

Thanks.

It's a stock E-mail, so don't draw too much from the content.

Can you explain why you have been given to understand it's only a survey? That may shed some light on the process. What does the BT wholesale checker show for your property?

Sometimes installations are done as 2-stage (external and internal separately), sometimes a 1-stage. Even with a 2-stage, it's possible that the engineer will do the internal installation first, leaving the remainder to an external engineer to do later - although obviously they won't be able to "show off your incredible new broadband speed" in that case.

And in some cases, a survey is indeed done first.

• upgrade your master phone socket

doesn't sound like something that happens with FTTP - FTTP doesn't use your existing phone line, so the master socket has nothing to do with it.

Cheers candlerb.

The back story is long and boring.
It's sort of a second home, during lockdown the occupants moved to the city, needed to be near hospitals and doctors etc.
A few weeks ago I went down and discovered a BT underground chamber had been installed at the end of the driveway. Seemingly it was installed around new year. Fine. Checking online I found it gave FTTP - which was ecstatic given the ADSL service had only ever been about 2 Mbps and that disappeared when the phone line went down, which was very frequent.

Here's the checker this morning : https://ibb.co/xS7Kccv

So I reported the news to the owner and recommended getting the FTTP connected up.
Because the owner is still living away all discussions revolve heavily around trying to impress on BT that access arrangements need to be made well in advance and stuck to. This has led to many fraught hours.
After the order was placed, various emails received from BT. The first one I thought was very confusing - it talks about "our full fibre customers" (which is FTTP) - but then the order says Fibre 2 which I understood to be FTTC. Cue more phone calls.

Anyway there is an engineer visit scheduled for tomorrow which from everything that's been said led me to believe it will be "the survey" prior to any fibre installation. All good. Except the engineer arrived yesterday, got lost about 3 miles away, phoned for directions and got an earful about showing up when there was nobody on the premises to discuss anything with.
However tomorrow's visit is supposedly still on, although I got a bit worried seeing the contents of this morning's email which led me to my post above.

At the moment, if it's a "survey" tomorrow leading to a discussion and agreement about the route of laying any fibre, that's great. Anything else will cause more high blood pressure. There are serious concerns that trenching could just happen when there's nobody about to say 'don't go there'.

Thanks sheephouse.
Very much to the point.
The first email from BT after the order was placed was confusing. It said :"
Your package
Broadband
Fibre 2

Your contract is for: 24 months

Your contract starts on: 21 Jul 2021
How fast will it be?


Your estimated download speed 74


Your estimated upload speed 20


Your Stay Fast Guarantee
Your Stay Fast download speed is: 34Mbps

That's the minimum speed you can expect from your broadband. In fact, we guarantee it. So if it's slower than that, let us know and we'll sort it out. Find out more about your Stay Fast Guarantee.
How much can I use?
Because your broadband's unlimited, you can use the internet as much as you want - we won't charge you extra.
"


I read that as being FTTC. This is where much worry on my part has started - I feel responsible having recommended to order the new service, but FTTC would be a disaster coming over such a flaky copper line.

That's FTTC Gfast Not FTTP !.

No mention of FTTC or G.fast on the availability result, just Adsl and WBC FTTP. Looks OK to me
Fibre 2 can be FTTP where FTTC isn't not available

Edited by witchunt (Tue 20-Jul-21 10:12:31)

Nope it’s definitely native FTTP available there.

Read the footnotes again….

“Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Pre built to curtilage Hard
FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered”

The BT products named "Fibre Essentials, "Fibre 1" and "Fibre 2" can be provided over either FTTC or FTTP - at BT's choice. However in your case, FTTC isn't available, so you're safe that it's FTTP.

(FWIW, the rule seems to be: when the property has both FTTC and FTTP, "Fibre 1" and "Fibre 2" are always provided over FTTP. "Fibre Essentials" is provided as FTTC, unless the expected speed falls below some (unspecified) threshold, in which case they use FTTP)

"KCI2 assure" in the checker does generally mean that a survey is required before the order can be accepted. Hence if there's no existing duct to the property, this is what I expect you'll be agreeing to. However it's not entirely impossible that they'll turn up with a van and be ready to lay the fibre on the same day.

I assume the property owner has authorized you to agree a route, and given you specific instructions on what's acceptable?

Quite strange that the contract start date is tomorrow, I ordered FTTP on 14th July - my order is due to start on 28th July and the survey (first stage) is due to happen this week sometime.

It could just be errors on the order.

Thank you Witchunt, that is very reassuring

Thank you candlerb. Owner is family member, will be there tomorrow, and I am the nominated transportation

Definitely no duct to the premises.

Cheers APTMAN.
The cabinet is at least two miles away as the crow flies (of which there are many in that area)
Too far for G Fast I believe.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

That's FTTC Gfast Not FTTP !.

It absolutely isn't.
What makes you say that?

The wording on the emails (full fibre) and the estimates are those of an FTTP order.

VDSL isn't even available at the property (which means G.Fast can't be either).

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 20-Jul-21 12:43:38)

Thanks Pheasant.
Live in hope. Be prepared for others to mess up.

Thanks BuckleZ.
My overall take is just p-poor communication skills from various people at BT - telephone and email.
Less marketting twaddle and more straight talk would be nice.
Have to say all the telephone contacts have been lovely people, very polite and all.
Just the follow up emails raise confusion when it shouldn't be there.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The wording on the emails (full fibre) and the estimates are those of an FTTP order.

VDSL isn't even available at the property

Thanks j0hn83,
Talk about blind - I didn't pick up on that.
Good spot.

In reply to a post by clyde123:

Thanks Pheasant.
Live in hope. Be prepared for others to mess up.

Have you agreed with the owners where they want the ONT to be located? Make sure there’s a double 13A socket outlet near to power it and a router.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

What makes you say that
?

Why is it only 330/50 and not 1000/220 ?

I can see it a bit better now I have expanded the screen shot And have my correct specs on

Must be an ECI OLT

I despair at BT at times though.

I can only have 330/50 whereas a neighbour fed from te same pole gets 1000/220 - explain that!

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

Must be an ECI OLT

Or lack of cable-link capacity at the headend exchange. Or a database error.

It will be interesting to see what type of ONT ends up being installed: if it's Huawei or Nokia then I believe that means it's unlikely to be an ECI OLT.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I despair at BT at times though.

I can only have 330/50 whereas a neighbour fed from te same pole gets 1000/220 - explain that!

What type of ONT do you have? It could simply be a database error. Get your ISP to resolve it (or at least they can find out for you the explanation of why your limit is 330/50).

EDIT: I presumed you were talking about WBC FTTP availability, not FTTP on Demand. FTTPoD figures often show 330/50 when they mean 1000/220, simply because they weren't updated in bulk when the FTTPoD product was changed. But if the database entry for a particular property is touched for some other reason, then they generally get updated.

Edited by candlerb (Wed 21-Jul-21 10:21:13)

Bad kink in the fibre

IIRC the BTw database shows him 1000/220 but BT Business wouldn't offer him the higher tier.

Easily explained if that's the case.
It's a simple database error within BT.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

What makes you say that
?

Why is it only 330/50 and not 1000/220 ?

Lack of capacity, database error or an ECI OLT (though less likely to be an ECI OLT on a new FTTP deployment).

You get all surveyed up then clyde123?

By way of some sort of follow up, I'll say yes we got the survey. Bit of a damp squib I have to say.
I really, really don't want to sound age-ist, but the very young chap (VERY YOUNG) in the Openreach van was not in the same mould of the BT engineers I remember from days of yore.
He insisted he was not a surveyor, was not there to do a 'survey'. Quite insistent that running an extra 10 metres of whatever - trenching / duct / fibre - to avoid digging through the driveway "might" incur extra costs which the ISP BT "might" pass on.

Anyway upshot was we agreed on a route. Email already come through from BT with an appointment for one day next week. So still got the tea and biscuits stashed away for that day. Will update eventually.

Good that you agreed a route. There was no existing duct for the copper line that could be used though?

Another update for info :
Trenching started yesterday to run the fibre into the property.
It's scheduled for a three day job.
Separate visit will happen later to do the internal install.

Very pleasant, co-operative and communicative chaps from Openreach. We had good discussions about where the trenching would go, and the route for the fibre up and across the front of the building. Agreed to go back to the route we had originally wanted and disregard what the surveyor had come up with, which involved trenching through the driveway in front of the house. All very happy about this.

Interesting he found the line of an old telephone cable from the 1950s (or maybe before) which is still down there under the lawn. We joked about who was going to extract the copper. That line actually runs exactly where the new fibre is going, as far as the end of the driveway. The old telephone cable goes the opposite direction though from where the fibre comes in now.

Wasted money on packets of biscuits from Aldi. Couldn't tempt them. At least my dog didn't chase them

Closing update to this thread.
Got the install completed on Monday.
A nice tidy job from trenching and ducting down the side of the driveway (avoiding the electric fence), across the lawn, and up to the house at the best point so as not to damage the tarmac.
Then the final engineer on Monday. Avoided drilling through a metre of old whinstone wall by routing through a cupboard under a window. Neat install of the Nokia ONT inside beside the ancient master socket. And the termination box on the front of the house will be camouflaged by a big plant.
Late in the day scare when the FTTP did not work. Turned out it was not plugged in to the CBT in the underground chamber. Woohoo and all green lights.

Well done the Openreach engineers.

Thats a good result. 👍 Were you able to test/use it in anger (so to speak)?

Yes good a reasonable 59 Mbps. That will be fine for a while.

OK as long as you’re happy 😎