Fibre switchover but no mobile signal

Hi. Please excuse me if this has been posted elsewhere, I did a quick search and couldn't see it.

Our village currently has no mobile phone signal. Sky have said they will not replace copper with fibre broadband as that would cause the existing landline to be switched off and emergency calls to 999 would not be possible.

BT on the other hand are apparently threatening to do the switch regardless.

Are there rules about making sure 999 calls can be made after a switch to full fibre supply?

Thanks for your time

In reply to a post by stevepickard:

Sky have said they will not replace copper with fibre broadband as that would cause the existing landline to be switched off and emergency calls to 999 would not be possible.

You don't need a physical landline (copper) or even fibre to call 999, but you do need some sort of connection to the internet to allow access to a VoIP service provider.

I think you're not being told the full story.

I think you might be confusing a few things.

Firstly, the PSTN - the analogue voice network - is being turned off across the whole country. It's happening in some places now, will be rolled out nationally in 2023 and be complete by 2025. There's no negotiation over this.

However, that does not involve removing the copper network. Instead, voice will be delivered digitally, as VOIP over broadband. The broadband may still be FTTC or ADSL, until such time as fibre is available to you. Any pure "phone lines" will be converted to broadband connections with a very low data speed (e.g. 0.5Mbps).

Secondly: 999 calls *can* be made over digital voice. However, you will be dependent on having power to your router for them to work - and also your ONT, if on fibre.

If you are a "vulnerable" customer then your ISP will be required to provide you with a UPS backup power supply, which will be able to power the router for several hours. Otherwise, it will be up to you to provide this backup yourself, if 100% availability of 999 calls is important to you.

Given that there's no mobile signal, maybe a few people in the village can get such protection, and then offer use of their phones in emergency if there's a power cut.

In reply to a post by stevepickard:

Hi. Please excuse me if this has been posted elsewhere, I did a quick search and couldn't see it.

Our village currently has no mobile phone signal. Sky have said they will not replace copper with fibre broadband as that would cause the existing landline to be switched off and emergency calls to 999 would not be possible.

BT on the other hand are apparently threatening to do the switch regardless.

Are there rules about making sure 999 calls can be made after a switch to full fibre supply?

Thanks for your time

This point has been considered a number of times on this Forum. While it is a significant problem for those without a mobile signal it is probably not a matter high on the list of priorities for the great majority of forum users who are used to full and ongoing mobile access. I expect their views might change in the event of a significant power outage which took their mobile mast off-line as well.

While you will be able to make 999 calls through the fibre connection this only works while you have power for the ONT. The OfCOM guidance from 2018 is on-line here and has not been significantly altered since then as far as I am aware. This proposes that telecom providers should provide systems to users in areas without other access to the emergency services which will provide the ability to contact the emergency services for at least one hour after a power outage begins. I believe that this is based on the information from the electricity suppliers that the average outage lasts 45 minutes. As ever you can prove what you like by selective use of statistics. This average time will include outages in urban areas where there is often redundancy in the network and routings can be switched to re-energise the supply (and funnily enough this also covers the areas where there is usually adequate mobile coverage). It is not a lot of help to those living in rural areas where the average outage is several hours while the single power line supplying an area is restored after it has been brought down by something like bad weather.

We are certainly concerned in our village as we have had at least one close shave where an ambulance had to called for a potentially life-threatening situation about 10 minutes before a 12-hour power outage hit us.

If there is any ray of light, Virgin have proposed that they will supply their customers in this situation with back-up that will give twenty four hours of stand-by coverage and one hour of talk time.

Perhaps you should start trying to raise awareness of the dangers in the proposals with your county council, MP, local media etc. as you are part of a minority who will be placed in situation where you would potentially have no access to the emergency services even if the full OfCOM guidance is followed by the telecoms providers.

Edited by GonePostal (Fri 20-Aug-21 10:43:23)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

If you are a "vulnerable" customer then your ISP will be required to provide you with a UPS backup power supply, which will be able to power the router for several hours.

OfCOM guidance is one hour (on line here) caveated in para 3.49 with:

"We considered that one hour’s protection represented an appropriate minimum level of
protection to provide customers taking VoIP services in most cases. We recognised,
however, that some individual customers might require protection beyond one hour, for
example, because they lived in households with a history of long-duration power outages,
and that providers should take steps to ensure those customers were protected."

That could lead to some lucrative work for m'learned friends!

Edited by GonePostal (Fri 20-Aug-21 10:35:56)

This is very helpful thanks (and please excuse the ignorance).

So, if I understand properly then, if BT swap someone from copper to fibre, they presumably are obliged to provide a VoIP phone connection to enable emergency calls?

Very interesting to hear about the UPS obligation.

The easy solution for no mobile signal is to use a mobile network that supports wi-fi calling so all the calls and messages use your internet connection. I rarely make calls on the landline any more as I have unlimited minutes on my mobile. This of course means a UPS or other power source is needed in case of a power cut.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Fri 20-Aug-21 10:36:27)

Post deleted by GonePostal

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

The easy solution for no mobile signal is to use a mobile network that supports wi-fi calling so all the calls and messages use your internet connection. I rarely make calls on the landline any more as I have unlimited minutes on my mobile. This of course means a UPS or other power source is needed in case of a power cut.

As you suggest, this depends on your provider and what type of phone - and sometimes who purchased from.

I'm not too worried as personally I quite enjoy not having mobile signal, and there are plans for a nearby mast so all will be normal in a couple of years

In reply to a post by stevepickard:

Our village currently has no mobile phone signal.

None whatsoever? From any network, not just the one you use? A genuine Not Spot?

Someone can tell me I'm wrong but isn't it the case that if you have "no service" you can still make 112/999 calls by - in effect - roaming to another network.

And you can further tell me I'm wrong to assume there are very few villages - not actual rural areas with few homes - without some sort of mobile.