Hyperoptic incoming, how long for BT FttP?

Hello everyone.

Just seen some cables installed outside above each households doorway, done by Hyperoptic I believe, who sent letters out to residences that they'll be available later this year after they received planning permission, so I am assuming it is them. Anyway, it appears to be fibre lines, as I can see the glass in the sheathe. So we should be getting full fat FttP here and not just FttB (last bit copper ethernet).

Personally, we'll be switching over from BT to Hyperoptic, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows the following?

1. The FttP checker at BT Openreach shows this area not getting any attention until after 2026 (as no plans for this area at all according to their map, despite surrounding areas having plans to work on before 2026). Question: Would this likely change given we have now got some of the work in place already to allow work to be deployed by another provider like Openreach? Or will Openreach keep to their existing schedule and ignore this area until after 2026?

2. Is there any particular advantage with BT FttP implementation over Hyperoptics? Or at they literally the same, but just for different providers in the end? BT/Others, and Hyperoptic?

Thanks all.

J1NG

You probably do have fibre all the way to your door, InvisiLight is Hyperoptic's default now.

https://www.ofsoptics.com/invisilight-products/

1. Unlikely that an altnet rollout will affect Openreach's plans. In fact my experience with Openreach is that they are avoiding MDUs (flats) anyway, most of the time. The work done so far will be independent unless Hyperoptic have used Openreach GEA to get to the building.

2. Main difference is who is your end ISP. With Openreach FTTP you can choose BT/Sky/Zen/others, with Hyperoptic you only get Hyperoptic. Given Hyperoptic is cheaper than providers that use Openreach FTTP and perfectly reliable, being able to switch providers doesn't have much advantage.

Edited by Cockroach (Wed 25-Aug-21 18:49:40)

In reply to a post by J1NG:

Question: Would this likely change given we have now got some of the work in place already to allow work to be deployed by another provider like Openreach? Or will Openreach keep to their existing schedule and ignore this area until after 2026?

Very difficult to provide an accurate answer, as there are many factors which. may sway (or not) Openreach to deploy sooner or later or according to their original plan, which as you can see the timescales are fairly broad anyway.

The other thing to note here is that the timescales are for the general exchange served area, and don't necessarily mean that every property will be FTTP enabled by that date. Quite possibly compounded by 'difficult' streets and/or MDUs/flats etc which historically Openreach either don't rollout too or do so later in the piece.

2. Is there any particular advantage with BT FttP implementation over Hyperoptics? Or at they literally the same, but just for different providers in the end? BT/Others, and Hyperoptic?

Two considerations really in my view:
1. Openreach is a wholesale provider, so you will have choice of providers that utilise their network. This provides you some (hopefully) competitive alternatives in the longer term. Currently Hyperoptic do not open their network to other retail providers. So Hyperoptic are the only retail option on their own network.

2. Currently Openreach FTTP is an asymmetric service, in that the upstream bandwidth is a fraction of the downstream bandwidth. This is fine for the vast majority of folk who will consume more than they produce (or upload). Different matter if there is a lot of content production or heavy uploads that would be better served with a symmetric connection. This may change at some point in the future. Hyperoptic on the other hand, like many other Altnet providers, utilise a symmetric service off the bat.

Edit: I was writing whilst Cockroach was sending, so apologies for any duplication in content.

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 25-Aug-21 18:58:22)

Haven't seen the InvisLight yet, just bare cable for the moment, but I imagine that'll be coming a bit later down the line.

Thank you for answering, that has cleared up the questions I had, largely about whether the was any differences between Openreach and Hyperoptic. Given the end result is by and large the same and also cheaper by going with Hyperoptic, I won't have any lingering doubts of whether to hold on BT for sentimental reasons.

Thanks again.

J1NG

Thank you for the detailed answers.

With the pricing advantage by going with Hyperoptic and speed/service available, I believe the slower deployment by Openreach shouldn't be that major a factor then for this location. Was part sentimental reason (line was started by father who has now passed away) and wondering if there was any obvious technical advantage/disadvantage by going with Hyperoptic and not waiting on Openreach. But the answers by you and Cockroach have helped clear all that up.

Given the pricing, and no obvious tech disadvantage by going Hyperoptic; VDSL2 for 76/20 for £32 a month or FTTP 500/500 for same price kind of makes it a clear winner.

Thanks again for your help and information.

J1NG

Do Hyperoptic still use CGNAT? May not be a problem if they do, depends what you use it for.

Hmmm, good question. I am unsure if CGNAT is still employed.

Although I don't believe it impacts on us here; our upload needs are moderate. And other functions are specific and searches don't appear to suggest issues directly.

We have a NAS that's used to update and upload old photos for sharing between family members who access the NAS across the globe. From what I understand, this (CGNAT) is not a direct problem, as we use synology's quickconnect which doesn't have a problem for family members who access it. All typical security features on the NAS are employed, so Admin is disabled, non local users only have access to read rights, except for one folder that is write capable, multiple failed passwords disable particular accounts on a permanent basis, passwords are issued here through random gen instead of chosen, etc.

Otherwise, it's largely games, some video uploads to youtube when we create videos or music. But that's about it. Nothing that CGNAT appears to directly impact on as far as I can tell.

But thanks for bringing that up and getting me to look into that a bit more.

J1NG

Hyperoptic use CGNAT by default, to get a public IP you need to buy the static IP option which is £5/month.

It could possibly cause an issue with games depending on what you play. It's also quite common for people to get large amounts of CAPTCHA requests due to the large numbers of customers sharing a single IP.

In reply to a post by J1NG:

1. The FttP checker at BT Openreach shows this area not getting any attention until after 2026 (as no plans for this area at all according to their map, despite surrounding areas having plans to work on before 2026). Question: Would this likely change given we have now got some of the work in place already to allow work to be deployed by another provider like Openreach? Or will Openreach keep to their existing schedule and ignore this area until after 2026?

Do not be surprised if BT Openreach change their plans. There are a number of topics on this Forum where BT have suddenly reversed their plans for an area to include an upgrade to FTTP once a competitor has announced that they plan to service an area. BT do this as their business will be better off investing in the technology upgrade for the area rather than suffering a significant revenue loss when their existing customers migrate to providers with a better service.

Of course this pushes the plans back for areas where there are no competitors trying to break into the market.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by J1NG:

1. The FttP checker at BT Openreach shows this area not getting any attention until after 2026 (as no plans for this area at all according to their map, despite surrounding areas having plans to work on before 2026). Question: Would this likely change given we have now got some of the work in place already to allow work to be deployed by another provider like Openreach? Or will Openreach keep to their existing schedule and ignore this area until after 2026?

Do not be surprised if BT Openreach change their plans. There are a number of topics on this Forum where BT have suddenly reversed their plans for an area to include an upgrade to FTTP once a competitor has announced that they plan to service an area. BT do this as their business will be better off investing in the technology upgrade for the area rather than suffering a significant revenue loss when their existing customers migrate to providers with a better service.

Of course this pushes the plans back for areas where there are no competitors trying to break into the market.

Hyperoptic are a strong contender in the London MDU market. Its pretty much their bread and butter.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the same about Openreach in the capital, especially when it comes to flats/MDUs, they tend to shy away. So its a fairly safe bet that for the OP, that Openreach won't be accelerating their plans because Hyopertic are in there.

Missed the OP location as I don't normally check on the poster's profile (maybe because I assume that everyone is a paranoid as I am so gives as little information away in profile details as possible).

Well, the games are nothing that requires specific IP or have any issues like that from what I understand with CGNAT. But the constant CAPTCHA popping up everywhere might be annoying. So I may just plop down for the public IP for the extra £5 a month to help avoid that. Already get a few of those with BT right now, so I can imagine how annoying increased amounts of that popping up would end up being like.

Thanks for raising that up. Will help me budget everything out.

Aye, I am indeed in London, I apologise for not putting that in the original post to help make the questions more concise to this region.

And, I don't think it's a matter of paranoia really. As identity theft and other things associated with that is a real thing. I think I left the city in simply because of when I joined and it was less of a deal putting it up, since the username is not a real person, and thus less of an issue if that is known (so long as it helps others help diagnose issues in places such as here that is. )

Personally, I'd hope Openreach would change their minds about this area sooner too, but I'm happy given the current situation now I know from all the wonderful answers here that I'm not losing out on anything really by dropping BT and not having Openreach FttP available yet when I now have access to Hyperoptic.

J1NG

edited

Incidentally, I've updated connection details, as Virgin.net hasn't been a thing for a long while now for dsl, and certainly not been on 8mb download for a while either.

Edited by J1NG (Thu 26-Aug-21 00:39:42)

I believe BT and other providers also use CGNAT on some tiers.

A lot of mainstream website support IPv6 now so shared IP side effects are dwindling.

Gone postal you post is misinfomation or disinformation

most of the one you make reference to were where operators did not do OMR did not look at commercial plans or have wild conspiracy theories that Openreach just sit and wait till someone announces and then rocks up -- clearly someone who has not idea about the lead time and build time required of a FTTP network

dont believe everything you read

In reply to a post by Cockroach:

I believe BT and other providers also use CGNAT on some tiers.

I've never heard of BT using CGNAT on any of their fixed line products.

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

Gone postal you post is misinfomation or disinformation

Pot kettle black comes to mind.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I've never heard of BT using CGNAT on any of their fixed line products.

Hmm, can only find reference to trials in 2013. Must have been thinking of another major ISP, maybe TalkTalk.

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

Gone postal you post is misinfomation or disinformation

My post is neither misinformation nor disinformation. My post is reporting what has been said on other topics on this forum. Please address the posters in the other topics rather than making rash statements in this topic.