Openreach Community Fibre - Voucher Question

Hello

I ran a successful Openreach Community Fibre in my local village. All the houses have now had Fibre brought to the doors. However I have just had an update from Openreach and they are saying it won't go live until January 2022.

Since then another alternative fibre company have come in and expect to be live in 3 weeks time.

What is the situation with vouchers, if I was to sign up for this other company and then in 12 months sign up with someone who uses Openreach, would Openreach still get the voucher? I remember reading that once the Fibre is live you have 24 months to claim the voucher, but its not clear if it only applies if its your first fibre connection?

You might want to check with the DCMS - if the AltNet is up and running and offering connections, then as I read it, technically you would have access to a > 100 Mbps broadband connection (see T&Cs on latest GBVS scheme rules), and would therefore be ineligible for voucher funding for the delayed Openreach network.

But wouldn't Openreach have applied/secured the vouchers at the time of signing of the CFP contract? Wasn't their a rush to claim vouchers for new CFP's just before the GBVS changed earlier in the year.

Don't know under which version of the scheme rules the OP signed up as part of the CFP. Current scheme rules state:

"Your new connection must be installed within 12 months of the issue of a UK Gigabit Voucher. If your supplier is not able to deliver your new connection by this date then the voucher will expire and the grant will be no longer be available. We accept no liability for the costs of connections which are not delivered within 12 months of the offer of a UK Gigabit Voucher."

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Don't know under which version of the scheme rules the OP signed up as part of the CFP. Current scheme rules state:

"Your new connection must be installed within 12 months of the issue of a UK Gigabit Voucher. If your supplier is not able to deliver your new connection by this date then the voucher will expire and the grant will be no longer be available. We accept no liability for the costs of connections which are not delivered within 12 months of the offer of a UK Gigabit Voucher."

I have a copy of GBVS 1.0 issued on 14/11/2017 and it says

Your new connection must be installed within 12 months of the offer of a voucher. If your supplier is not able to deliver your new connection by this date – then the voucher will expire and the grant will be no longer be available. We accept no liability for the costs of connections which are not delivered within 12 months of the offer of a voucher.

Interesting one refers to the offer of a voucher and the other refers to the issuing of a voucher.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Sep-21 17:22:34)

We don't know the timescales from the OP either. Could be well within the 12 months, and I take your earlier point that OR would have applied for the vouchers at the time of the sign off on the CFP (one would presume).

It's not a situation I found myself in when I did my voucher application s part of FOD some years ago, however scenarios such as this must becoming increasingly familiar as there are literally dozens and dozens of AltNets building networks all around the country, and may by design or coincidence, over-build such a funded Openreach project quicker than OR can complete theirs.

It does also raise the point if an AltNet can complete a commercial rollout in 3 weeks and OR have delayed completing their (publicly funded) rollout by around 4 months....

i would be checking with your contact in openreach .about when its going to be delviered - you need to think carefully as openreach will have used those vouchers to part fund the build and openreach get paid when then those vocuhers are claimed - if people decide not to clam the voucher there will be a shortfall - on the openreach build costs - depending on how the agreement was set up , you or your communty could be potentially responsible for the shortfall -- sugges you read the contract your communty signed with openreach

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

It does also raise the point if an AltNet can complete a commercial rollout in 3 weeks

I'd very much doubt the whole thing was done in 3 weeks, including planning and design.

Perhaps I should have have worded it better, and said 'finalise the completion'....

In any event it sounds as if they started their rollout after OR and will be done (if they are true to their word) some three months before OR.

I would suggest that its OR's problem that they have not provided the agreed connection within 12 months not the voucher applicant.

We don't know the precise timescale for certain, nor if the 12 month limit has indeed actually been breached.

agreed

if the delivery is within the 12 month cycle (normally early than that to allow the voucher claim) and the community chooses not to claim the voucher -- thats a mare for the communuty as its possible the community will have to fund the shortfall (dependant on the type of contract signed with communty)

The scheme is going to be within 12 months. We reached our target just before end of March 2021 and it will go live before March 2022.

We had to get 130% vouchers to cover the cost, so if there was drop out then Openreach weren't at risk. The community hasn't had to put any money towards the cost, it is all covered by the vouchers and as far as Im aware the risk is with Openreach.

My question really is, if I know this won't be live until January 2022 at the earliest, id be tempted to take a 12 month contract with the alternative network. Then at the end of the 12 months switch. But if by doing this I would make it so Openreach could no longer claim my voucher, I would wait.

I was told once the service is live, you have 24 months to swop to FTTP service provide using Openreach. Once you do this Openreach get the money released.

Edited by kingbiscit (Wed 08-Sep-21 11:58:38)

So its a "demand led" CFP, you will have already pledged your GBVS voucher via the following Openreach website

In reply to a post by dect:

So its a "demand led" CFP, you will have already pledged your GBVS voucher via the following Openreach website

Yes we have all already pledged our vouchers. But I believe Openreach don't receive the money until the person who pledged the voucher has activated a FTTP service via Openreach and they have 24 months to do it.

But my question is, if I do that within 24 months but before that get a FTTP from an alternative supplier would that invalidate the voucher? Hoping it doesnt?

In reply to a post by kingbiscit:

In reply to a post by dect:

So its a "demand led" CFP, you will have already pledged your GBVS voucher via the following Openreach website

Yes we have all already pledged our vouchers. But I believe Openreach don't receive the money until the person who pledged the voucher has activated a FTTP service via Openreach and they have 24 months to do it.

But my question is, if I do that within 24 months but before that get a FTTP from an alternative supplier would that invalidate the voucher? Hoping it doesnt?

Ultimately the party that is going to honour (or not) the redemption of the vouchers is the DCMS, and I think you would best be confirming this 100% with them to be certain.

Also as noted above, checking carefully any contractual T&Cs with Openreach, given that you have pledged them already - if you inadvertently breach any T&C's there could be a liability.

[Off topic but with my taxpayers hat on, the while thing to me is a bit nonsensical....given that public money is being used to effectively over-build a service. I understand that the OP is blameless in this, but it really is bonkers]

I found the T&Cs

https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/wp-content/upl...

I think safest will be to just wait for the Openreach service. Just frustrating you go to all the effort of gaining interest and getting it over the line and despite Openreach having a huge headstart an alternative supplier is going to beat them to it.

Of course, if the benefit to you of taking a faster service justifies it, then take both. You would probably end up paying for a 6 months overlap, which is a good time to evaluate which is better for you (and enjoy extra redundancy).

interesting view of the world

building a FTTP network is massively complex and depends on also what premises are covered and how far the network has to be extended from the nearest aggregation point, - what you might find is the alternative network provider (you dont say who that is interestingly or how it is being provided (or is it and apples to apples comparison) might actually be using some of the new network (via PIA) i would expect Openreach will be wanting to ensure your network is built in timely way for you to enable the vouchers --

normal build leadtimes from contract agreement to service ordering are in the region of 10 - 12 months (12 months contract allows build and then voucher claim as area ordwers) A of these bespoke jobs (which they are) have to be fitted into the Openreach Workstack

I do understand its complex. I'm just inpatient, but I will wait for Openreach to complete the network. It has to be before end of March 2022 so not to long now.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I'd very much doubt the whole thing was done in 3 weeks, including planning and design.

I think more joined up thinking would help. One keeps on hearing of commercial interests etc but having different companies (many forget OR is just that - a private company) fighting over the same patch seems akin to unregulated bus services. Some get none, others so many to choose from.

As for the 3 weeks. I don't know when my ISP decided to plan and design their FTTP network into this and surrounding villages but actually building the network from scratch to the first houses going live around here took about 3-4 weeks. I went live 4 weeks after they first started work and that included pulling in a new fibre cable from the next village (and probably from further away). We're 5 miles from the nearest town, 7km from the exchange.

As for the voucher, the voucher is issued on confirmation that the work has been completed. Can't help on time allowed to complete though. My ISP wasn't hanging around.

Edited by 69bertie (Sun 12-Sep-21 17:00:01)