WBC FTTP Waiting List?

Hi,

Sorry if this is a very basic question, but I am currently on exchange DUNFERMLINE on FTTC...but I noticed today that WBC FTTP has been added recently as an option but the availability date is showing as 'Waiting List'

Can I ask, does this simply mean that it is (probably) in the process of having WBC FTTP added to the exchange and that no date has been set/finalised? or possibly it is simply in Openreach's long term plans, but nothing has been set in stone yet?

FTTP On Demand, it says, is Available, but obviously the installation price difference between the two offerings will be massive, I would imagine...

Anyway, is there any way at all to find out if there is even a tentative date for WBC FTTP to be enabled, or are these dates a very closely guarded secret in the upper echelons of Openreach?

Thanks,
Kevin

I've never seen Waiting List for FTTP - only FTTC. Would you mind posting a screenshot? (Cut off the address/phone number)

Sure, no problem...

I wasn't sure how to post an image (from my screenshot) so I just hosted it on my Google Photos account...here is the link

WBC FTTP screenshot

I hope you can see it OK...and as you can see, if you follow WBC FTTP along to the right, it says Waiting List

Thanks

Looks like your link is broken…

I used to use imgur myself, easy to share images with that. Only reason I don't use it anymore is because I now have a self-hosted solution.

I never heard of FTTP on waiting list? Must be FTTC by mistaken surely.

Gives a 404 for me too.

Some other people on this forum have been using imgbb.com

Thanks for the heads up re the broken link...I have reuploaded it using imgbb...

WBC FTTP screenshot

Thanks

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Thanks for the heads up re the broken link...I have reuploaded it using imgbb...

WBC FTTP screenshot

Thanks

Waiting list is usually down to the final commissioning stages at the headend exchange - i.e. there simply may be no headend unit hahah

Other than the 2 lines of text shown in your screenshot, are there any further lines of text shown beneath the table of results?

In reply to a post by Whitehall11:

Waiting list is usually down to the final commissioning stages at the headend exchange - i.e. there simply may be no headend unit hahah

Have you seen that before then?

Must admit I’ve never before seen “waiting list” against WBC FTTP in the BT checker…usually it’s either listed in the table or it’s simply not!

Also entries for WBC FTTP and FTTPoD are typically mutually exclusive on the results table - you’ll see one or the other but never both entries.

Very odd is this one!

Hmmm...that's an interesting question.

I captured the text below the table, and one interesting line says:

WBC FTTP text

"For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days..."

So, could the WBC FTTP section in the table simply be a typo/mistake, and should it read WBC FTTC? (is this another name for G.fast)? If so, the Downstream Line Rate following this in the table that says "up to 1000"...could this be an auto filled in section based on the (possible) incorrect WBC FTTP product listing? I am guessing that WBC FTTC (G.fast?) doesn't have anywhere near the downstream rate of 1000 Mpbs?

Thanks...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Must admit I’ve never before seen “waiting list” against WBC FTTP in the BT checker…usually it’s either listed in the table or it’s simply not!

We have seen threads on FTTP Waiting List before on here Linky

No don’t think it’s a typo in that way. That’s just a standard remark where FTTC/VDSL is available.

Any G.fast would be shown immediately below the VDSL lines in the main table, in the same section - that is all FTTC products shown together at the top.

It could however be some sort of database anomaly - or it could be something funky going on with the OLT / headend provisioning. Possibly even a lack of CBT ports, if they’re all used (don’t suppose you can see?) or a capacity issue elsewhere on the PON.

If FTTP was available as a new connection - then it would simply say “ FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.” as a line under the main table. The last column for ‘install process’ on the WBC FTTP line would also have an entry.

Ah OK back in February I see kitcat answered that as being a PON constraint - “this would only occur when the final splitter or fibre DP is over subscribed”

Noted for future reference! Thanks

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Ah OK back in February I see kitcat answered that as being a PON constraint - “this would only occur when the final splitter or fibre DP is over subscribed”

Noted for future reference! Thanks

Often an FTTP waiting list is accompanied by a message under the availability table saying something along the lines of "the network is at capacity, a new ONT cannot be ordered".

That's usually the case when a DP is full.

A splitter being full is much less common.
OpenReach can and do go above 32:1 if homes order multiple services.

They provision the splitter as 32:1 but if everyone on the splitter had a 4 port ONT and took 2 services then the splitter would be doing 64:1.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

They provision the splitter as 32:1 but if everyone on the splitter had a 4 port ONT and took 2 services then the splitter would be doing 64:1.

That's not true. An ONT (even a 4-port ONT) is a single device with a single optical interface. 32 ONTs of any type is still a 1:32 split.

In a GPON network the ONT can provide multiple user services, either as separate physical ports, or as separate VLANs on the same port (Openreach don't do this). But it's the same optical uplink used.

You might for instance have four ports active with 80/20 services, and this would still use less bandwidth than a single service of 1000/110.

Worded wrong perhaps.

The general point I was making being the same though that the splitter/PON isn't limited to 32 services.

Yes I thought the same as candlerb, it’s a fine line - the distinction between an optical GPON connection on the PON and the number of subscriber connections on the PON. It’s not a 1:1 ratio.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

They provision the splitter as 32:1 but if everyone on the splitter had a 4 port ONT and took 2 services then the splitter would be doing 64:1.

That's not true. An ONT (even a 4-port ONT) is a single device with a single optical interface. 32 ONTs of any type is still a 1:32 split.

In a GPON network the ONT can provide multiple user services, either as separate physical ports, or as separate VLANs on the same port (Openreach don't do this). But it's the same optical uplink used.

You might for instance have four ports active with 80/20 services, and this would still use less bandwidth than a single service of 1000/110.

Do you know if the old Huawei multi-port ONT and for that matter upcoming (Nokia 4-port ONTs) expose an HSGMII (ie full 2.5 Gbps downstream bandwidth) interface on the electrical/switch fabric side of the optical interface or if they soft limit it to an SGMII (~1 Gbps) to share across the switch?

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 16-Sep-21 14:06:36)

No idea about those specific devices, but I'd expect that to do this properly they'd have a CPU with 2.5G link to the optical side and 2.5G link into the switch which drives the ethernet ports.

Rather like how Mikrotik do with some of their routers:
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RB4011iGSplusRM_18...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Have you seen that before then?

Must admit I’ve never before seen “waiting list” against WBC FTTP in the BT checker…usually it’s either listed in the table or it’s simply not!

It's appearing more than in the past, however, it is appearing.

We are presently seeing Waiting Lists on our FTTP checks, during September 2021, currently polling at 0.4% of queries.


NB: We are currently building the established process for FTTP Waiting Lists in our systems (similar to how we did with FTTC).

Yup although they haven’t flicked the switch in RouterOS 7 yet…

https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=166000

Thanks Martin. That’s interesting. I suppose as you’d expect really given demand on a relatively new network. 0.4% is a bit more manageable than the 25% with FTTC. No doubt a darn sight faster and cheaper to resolve too.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Thanks Martin. That’s interesting. I suppose as you’d expect really given demand on a relatively new network. 0.4% is a bit more manageable than the 25% with FTTC. No doubt a darn sight faster and cheaper to resolve too.

Indeed and they do appear to be clearing FTTP ones after a little bit of time. I did some checking into a few last month and many were simply coming back to poles that could not carry any more cables, which seems to be triggering some of the Waiting List flags.

FTTC availability stats are currently at 23.3% of checks hitting us, so still inline with what we have seen for months. We have also been monitoring 14 lines, in partnership with some test customers, all year, not one of those has yet shown availability yet.

Thanks for the intel Martin. Interesting as ever.