Can't transfer FTTC to alternative provider

Have had 40Mbps FTTC for years. Originally BT then Vodafone and currently Plus.Net. I now want to transfer and maybe upgrade but the BT availability checker says there is no fibre service available at my address. This issue seems to affect approx 1/4 of the properties on our street. And I'm in the blackout area.

An enquiry to Openreach suggests that capacity is exhausted due to high demand but there are no plans to add any more capacity or FTTP. This looks to be a cut and paste standard response as the remaining 3/4 of the street are on the same exchange and the availability checker lists all the fibre options for them.

The blackout area seems to also affect Community Fibre. They recently installed boxes on the top of the telegraph poles. I note that the blackout affected properties are mostly connected to one pole which has no boxes. This pole has a square yellow tag attached that says "Caution Overhead Fibre".

Community Fibre have proved hopeless as to information concerning when their service will be available, if at all.

Seems to me there is an availability database error.

How can I progress this further?

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Sep-21 18:23:16)

Do you know all the providers in your exchange?

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange...

.

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

Do you know all the providers in your exchange?

I don't think the SamKnows site is any accurate. Also with FTTC & FTTP the openreach fibres may not run to the local exchange that provides the analogue PSTN.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

Do you know all the providers in your exchange?

I don't think the SamKnows site is any accurate. Also with FTTC & FTTP the openreach fibres may not run to the local exchange that provides the analogue PSTN.

Indeed. I had a quick search using my postcode and it just points to my local copper / ADSL exchange, so the available operator data for FTTC and FTTP is all wrong. My FTTP serving exchange is around 9 miles away in a large city.

You'd need to know what the GEA Headend/Handover exchange and search that way, for it to be of any use for modern Openreach services.

It would also (quite obviously) be worthless for any AltNet availability checking.

In reply to a post by Enceladus:

Have had 40Mbps FTTC for years. Originally BT then Vodafone and currently Plus.Net. I now want to transfer and maybe upgrade but the BT availability checker says there is no fibre service available at my address. This issue seems to affect approx 1/4 of the properties on our street. And I'm in the blackout area.

An enquiry to Openreach suggests that capacity is exhausted due to high demand but there are no plans to add any more capacity or FTTP. This looks to be a cut and paste standard response as the remaining 3/4 of the street are on the same exchange and the availability checker lists all the fibre options for them.

The blackout area seems to also affect Community Fibre. They recently installed boxes on the top of the telegraph poles. I note that the blackout affected properties are mostly connected to one pole which has no boxes. This pole has a square yellow tag attached that says "Caution Overhead Fibre".

Community Fibre have proved hopeless as to information concerning when their service will be available, if at all.

Seems to me there is an availability database error.

How can I progress this further?

You may wish to post up the wholesale checker results (anonymised) on here that show the exchange and cabinet number. There are some kindly Openreach folks in the know that peruse the forums and may be able to enlighten you as to cabinet expansion plans, if indeed thats the issue.

Edit to say that wholesale checker has absolutely no information available pertaining to any other AltNet network builder other than Openreach. Community Fibre are the only folks that will be able to tell you when their network will go live in your street - there is no online availability checker for them if your are in London.

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 29-Sep-21 19:11:50)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

Do you know all the providers in your exchange?

I don't think the SamKnows site is any accurate. Also with FTTC & FTTP the openreach fibres may not run to the local exchange that provides the analogue PSTN.

I don't even know what that means

I used it to find out when FTTC was available here and i switched when it showed it was.

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I don't think the SamKnows site is any accurate. Also with FTTC & FTTP the openreach fibres may not run to the local exchange that provides the analogue PSTN.

I don't even know what that means

In most cases, the copper wire from your house runs to a cabinet (PCP), and from there to the local telephone exchange. Either in an adjacent cabinet, or on a pod in the PCP itself, is where the FTTC (VDSL) signal is generated, i.e .the "data" service. At the local exchange is where the analogue voice signal is generated, i.e. "dialtone"

However: the fibre network is completely separate. Both the fibre uplink to the FTTC cabinet, and direct FTTP connections to homes, go via the FTTP network. This doesn't go to small local exchanges, but instead goes to underground fibre aggregation nodes, and from those onto to a larger "head-end" exchange which serves properties in a much wider radius - something like 20km.

Hence:
1. If you have both FTTC and FTTP available at your property, you may be served by two different exchanges.
2. When the copper network is eventually retired, the small local exchanges will go - as indeed will the PCPs and FTTC cabinets.

SamKnows is many years out of date: its information dates from the time of ADSL, when both voice and data came from the local exchange.

A minor correction, needed to help avoid internet myths spreading.

FTTC and FTTP connections do not always go to a different exchange from the phone line. It is still quite common for the PSTN (phone) exchange to also be a head-end for Openreach fibre.

i assume the FTTC cabinet is full which is why it will only give you an ADSL speed -- that means that no one is connected to that cab can upgrade - not sure what the reference to community fibre (i assume that the london fibre providers) as that is nothiing to do with FTTC or also anything to do with openreach

you cant transfer an FTTC service from one provider to another without do a a cease and re provide (which you would be mad to do as you know the cabinet is full )

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

you cant transfer an FTTC service from one provider to another without do a a cease and re provide (which you would be mad to do as you know the cabinet is full )

The user does not do a cease and reprovide. Openreach generates that internally from the gaining provider order on them.

Your post doesn't imply, it states, that the user does it. Completely mis-describing the migration process from the user point of view.

Fortunately no ISP is accepting the order precisely because they have learnt the migration would almost certainly fail.

Edited by pluralist (Mon 04-Oct-21 23:49:13)

pruralist i understand the process completely this is not about what happens at the openreach level but you would have to tell you service provider you were moving provider and you would not start that process if you knew there was no spare ports in the cabinet (which is the point it was making)

OP is on Plusnet and says they "want to transfer and maybe upgrade"

In their position, I would stick with Plusnet; if an upgrade is required then do the upgrade with Plusnet, as that doesn't carry a risk of losing service.

Then stick until either an FTTC capacity upgrade comes along, or the arrival of FTTP (either Openreach or altnet) reduces the demand for FTTC ports.

Also, keep an eye on https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
- enter your exchange name or phone number, go to the exchange, and click the link "all <N> fibre cabinets". If upgrades are scheduled, they should appear here (eventually).

You misunderstand me, particularly given the infrequency of the OP's posts. (I realise he may visit more often, but we don't know whether he does or not).

The point I was making is that very few people know that a migration causes a cease and re-provide. So you saying he should not do a cease and re-provide was not a good way of putting your point. In particular:

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

you cant transfer an FTTC service from one provider to another without do a a cease and re provide (which you would be mad to do as you know the cabinet is full )

I'm sure you are well aware of the considerable number of posters who come on here having lost their FTTC by putting in a migration request to a new provider and calamity ensuing.

Particularly so as the number of FTTC cabinets at capacity is at record levels.

The Openreach database hasn't been updated since last November, so I'd be surprised if it ever does update again.