New Full Fibre Has Arrived letter...but it hasn't

Hi,

Just a quick one for all you people in the know...

I got a letter from BT today saying New Full Fibre Has Arrived and I can order Full Fibre 500 today...however, I am not able to place an order, and when I phoned the BT order number, they tell me the system is not showing it as available.

I assume that BT have just jumped the gun a little, but my question is, is BT sending out letters usually a final stage of availability? or could it simply be some sort of error?

My postcode is KY12 8NZ if that's any help, but the BT DSL checker doesn't show any FTTP availability, other than Waiting List for FTTP...

Thanks for the help...

Does it actually show:

Featured Products
WBC FTTP ...... Wait list

- and not "FTTP on demand? Then you're likely to be able to order soon. Just wait for it to change.

Also: read carefully the text *below* the results table. What does it say about FTTP there?

Yes,

Under Featured Products, it says
WBC FTTP...........Waiting List

and the only mention of WBC Fibre in the text below just mentions that for WBC Fibre orders, an engineer visit may be required to supply the service.

The BT lady did say that as I had received a letter, then it probably means FTTP is imminent, within a couple of months, she said...does that seem a reasonable timescale, or was she simply throwing a timescale out there?

Thanks

The FTTP infrastructure is not quite ready yet. Keep checking back, and it should show as available in the coming weeks. Precisely when is difficult to know.

Thanks...I just got really excited when the letter popped through my door this morning...only to have my hopes dashed within minutes!

Hopefully, it's a good sign though...

KevinM2

Also doesn't show on the OR site so still a little way off.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband

It will appear on here first then roll through the databases to the ISPs.

OK thanks...I just wondered why BT are writing to me telling me that Full Fibre is available at my address now, if it's not even showing up on the OR database yet...

I think there has been some sort of mix up at BT...that'd be a first, eh! LOL

Thanks

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

Also doesn't show on the OR site so still a little way off.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband

It will appear on here first then roll through the databases to the ISPs.

Probably a FOD installation that has popped up on their mailing list so they have mailshot the whole postcode!

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Probably a FOD installation that has popped up on their mailing list so they have mailshot the whole postcode!

Ahh, I wonder...there's a new couple moved into a house 5 doors down, a month or so ago...Hmmm.

Maybe I'll ask, just in passing...

I just ran your postcode through the TalkTalk website and they'll sell you a 500Mbit service...

BT Wholesale are taking their time in my area too, Zen, TalkTalk and Sky have all been on sale for months but BTw show 'Planned'.

In reply to a post by ft247:

BT Wholesale are taking their time in my area too, Zen, TalkTalk and Sky have all been on sale for months but BTw show 'Planned'.

You can still place an order with an ISP that "support" both Planned status and Waiting List statuses, as we do. It just means the ISP manages the process a bit more than normal, but Openreach will hold these orders for a bit whilst resolving an minor work.

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Probably a FOD installation that has popped up on their mailing list so they have mailshot the whole postcode!

Ahh, I wonder...there's a new couple moved into a house 5 doors down, a month or so ago...Hmmm.

That's unlikely to be fibre on demand. If they had moved in 6 months ago, and ordered FoD immediately, maybe around now you'd start seeing some activity.

Maybe they didn't order it????

In reply to a post by aquiss:

You can still place an order with an ISP that "support" both Planned status and Waiting List statuses, as we do. It just means the ISP manages the process a bit more than normal, but Openreach will hold these orders for a bit whilst resolving an minor work.

I'm personally not in need of it in this case - but did you mention there was a maximum time ISPs could keep an order on waiting list status before it was auto-cancelled? In my case, the Openreach network has been complete since the start of August, but BTw still aren't live - and the same goes for all addresses in the ~50% of the exchange area where Openreach are now on sale via Zen, TalkTalk, Sky etc.

KevinM2

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Using Wichunt's hint, Only number 16 can get 1Gb FTTP, (No's 14 and 18 are still FTTC 80Mb) see the OR checker for confirmation

So certainly a FoD order but unusually only one premises served. (Unless it comes from the back on Deans Close)

So a BT retail erroneous assumption that as one house can get FTTP the whole postcode can!

.

Darn it...that doesn't sound like good news

I certainly haven't seen anyone digging up their driveway (in the past 3 years since I've lived here) in order to lay underground cabling, either from the front of the house, or the rear (from the Dean Drive side, but that would be tricky as there's a house behind them before Dean Drive, so I can't see that being an option)...

Anyway, sounds like an error/assumption on BT's part mailing out a letter...but would the same assumption explain why the TalkTalk system is actually allowing me to order FTTP 500 right now? has someone at TalkTalk made a similar error?

I would have thought that in order to order (and process an order) there should be FTTP availability to allow that, and as we have seen, only #16 has availability...very odd

Also, I take it the fact that #16 has availability has no impact on it being able to be offered to any near neighbouring premises?

Thanks for the info...

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Using Wichunt's hint, Only number 16 can get 1Gb FTTP, (No's 14 and 18 are still FTTC 80Mb) see the OR checker for confirmation

So certainly a FoD order but unusually only one premises served. (Unless it comes from the back on Deans Close)

So a BT retail erroneous assumption that as one house can get FTTP the whole postcode can!

.

In reply to a post by ft247:

I'm personally not in need of it in this case - but did you mention there was a maximum time ISPs could keep an order on waiting list status before it was auto-cancelled?

On FTTC yes, it's 3 months, before dropping off. On FTTP, Openreach have imposed no time limit. We have just completed an FTTP Waiting List, after being on the list 13 months.

I'm wondering if your address needs a kick within BTw systems. BTw normally mirror Openreach pretty quickly.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

I'm wondering if your address needs a kick within BTw systems. BTw normally mirror Openreach pretty quickly.

So, could (theoretically) BT Openreach have FTTP as being available, but BT Wholesale show it is not available (or Waiting List)?

The broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com site is obviously BT Wholesale checker...but do regular people have any way to check the Openreach availability directly (to see if it differs from the Wholesale), or is that only for registered companies (ISPs) to have access to in order to place & process orders?

I still wonder why and how TalkTalk systems are allowing me to place an order for FTTP 500 right now, if Wholesale are showing it as Waiting List...

Thanks

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Using Wichunt's hint, Only number 16 can get 1Gb FTTP, (No's 14 and 18 are still FTTC 80Mb) see the OR checker for confirmation

So certainly a FoD order but unusually only one premises served.

If it was an early FoD installed before March 2018, then only one premise would have been activated.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

I'm wondering if your address needs a kick within BTw systems. BTw normally mirror Openreach pretty quickly.

The thought did cross my mind, but it's not just my address, it's the whole exchange area. LSNOR had no known Openreach FTTP before the first week of August, now ~50% of the exchange area has it available on Zen, TalkTalk etc. but not BT Wholesale.

KevinM2

Aquiss were replying to 247 not to you.

But yes the BTW systems can be behind OR systems or have additional limiting factors ( Cable links)

You can check the OR checker using the link I gave earlier ( https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband ) If the street was served overhead and you were in reach of a pole serving FTTP you could ask using the links on that page.

It is worth filling in the contact form and asking about plans, if you are in 14 or 18 you should be able to pick a " My neighbour can get FTTP but I cannot" when you go through the form.

The enquiry form you need is here https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai... the one on the OR checker results page is just supposed to "keep you updated".

KevinM2 - No 16 on the BT wholesale checker shows ONT active & overhead feed - streetview from a couple of years ago didn't seem to show any poles - have there been some fitted recently? Did you speak to them in passing and they actually do have FTTP?

Edited by adrenalize_ (Mon 11-Oct-21 00:06:08)

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

The enquiry form you need is here https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai... the one on the OR checker results page is just supposed to "keep you updated".

KevinM2 - No 16 on the BT wholesale checker shows ONT active & overhead feed - streetview from a couple of years ago didn't seem to show any poles - have there been some fitted recently? Did you speak to them in passing and they actually do have FTTP?

I haven't seen any work taking place there in the past 3 years since I have been here...but it might have been done (if it had) whilst I was on holiday in 2018/19 (pre pandemic).

I haven't spoken to the neighbours and asked them, mainly because they only moved in about a month ago, so I will no doubt see them in passing at some point, and once I do, I will ask if the have FTTP...

Thanks for the link, by the way...I have messaged them to ask if they can give me any insight to upcoming availability.

Thank you

Can you see where there BT Line enters their property? It’s generally fairly obvious whether a property has FTTP by the grey Openreach CSP on the external wall of the house. If it’s different to yours and looks fairly square and large it’s probably a FTTP install.

Disclaimer - Please do not go rooting around your neighbours garden in the dead of night to try and determine if they have FTTP.

There are CSP-less Openreach FTTP installs too...take for example my own. No grey box whatsoever 😀

In reply to a post by Maverick567:

Can you see where there BT Line enters their property? It’s generally fairly obvious whether a property has FTTP by the grey Openreach CSP on the external wall of the house. If it’s different to yours and looks fairly square and large it’s probably a FTTP install.

Disclaimer - Please do not go rooting around your neighbours garden in the dead of night to try and determine if they have FTTP.

There's nothing obvious from looking at the front of the house (as I walk along the pavement), but all of the houses in the vicinity seem to be fed by overhead telegraph poles...

Would/could FTTP be supplied by overhead poles? I could always take a look at the pole that supplies the cable going to their property and see if there is some different looking box on it...

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Would/could FTTP be supplied by overhead poles? I could always take a look at the pole that supplies the cable going to their property and see if there is some different looking box on it...

If the copper feed is overhead then 99% of the time the fibre comes overhead also.

Look for a CBT on their pole. 1 of these

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

In reply to a post by Maverick567:

Can you see where there BT Line enters their property? It’s generally fairly obvious whether a property has FTTP by the grey Openreach CSP on the external wall of the house. If it’s different to yours and looks fairly square and large it’s probably a FTTP install.

Disclaimer - Please do not go rooting around your neighbours garden in the dead of night to try and determine if they have FTTP.

There's nothing obvious from looking at the front of the house (as I walk along the pavement), but all of the houses in the vicinity seem to be fed by overhead telegraph poles...

Would/could FTTP be supplied by overhead poles? I could always take a look at the pole that supplies the cable going to their property and see if there is some different looking box on it...

https://postimg.cc/CdgNnVYm

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Would/could FTTP be supplied by overhead poles? I could always take a look at the pole that supplies the cable going to their property and see if there is some different looking box on it...

If the copper feed is overhead then 99% of the time the fibre comes overhead also.

Look for a CBT on their pole. 1 of these

Thanks...I'll look and see if there is one of those on the pole.

I take it then, as I have overhead copper cables delivering my FTTC service, IF FTTP became available, they could install it from the poles that supply my house currently, and not need to dig up my driveway?

Thanks

Yes, generally they fit one of those CBT connector blocks when deploying to the area. Then when you can order FTTP the just fit the new fibre where the old copper overhead wire was into the CBT.
They are pretty tough these days compared to the fibres a few years back.

They've hidden those poles well - is that them down the bottom of the gardens?

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

Yes, generally they fit one of those CBT connector blocks when deploying to the area. Then when you can order FTTP the just fit the new fibre where the old copper overhead wire was into the CBT.
They are pretty tough these days compared to the fibres a few years back.

They've hidden those poles well - is that them down the bottom of the gardens?

Thanks...I'll try and take a close up look at the pole that supply's #16 and see if there is a CBT connector at the top, and hopefully if there is, and with #16 only being 3 houses away, it should hopefully make it a simple job of fitting FTTP to my hose should it become available...

May find the CBT is on a pole a bit further away

KevinM2

You may find it on the pole behind 21/23 Deans Drive. Is that close enough to you.

( I hate poles in peoples back gardens, makes it really hard to see what is going on where and you cannot get a cherry picker to them. It does have the advantage no RTA is going to wipe them out)

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

You may find it on the pole behind 21/23 Deans Drive. Is that close enough to you.

( I hate poles in peoples back gardens, makes it really hard to see what is going on where and you cannot get a cherry picker to them. It does have the advantage no RTA is going to wipe them out)

I saw the poles last night, and poles like that, can easily cause DB errors for things like fttc/fttp because it isn't a straight transpose for the enabled premises.its a shame you can't see the pole from the satellite view

OK guys, so I got in touch with Openreach, and this is (part) of what they got back to me with...

"I’ve had a look at this for you and can see that although FTTP has been provided in your area, there are currently no spare Fibre ports on a piece of the equipment that serves your address.

I have notified our capacity team of this who will check if an extra port can be provided so that you can then place an order."

Also, I took a couple of pictures of the top of the poles that feed my house, and #16 (that shows availability of WBC FTTP 1000)

I have no idea what I am looking for in terms of what is needed (partwise) to offer FTTP, but Picture 1 is the pole at the back of #21 Dean Drive (and that pole supplies my house)...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/uWDDThX.jpg[/img]

and picture 2 is the pole that supplies #16 that has FTTP...also, Pole 1 (from picture 1) feeds Pole 2...there is no direct link from Pole 1 to #16 (with FTTP)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Jn7mGzt.jpg[/img]

I hope that all makes sense...

Can anyone tell from the (poor quality) pictures if Pole 1 has FTTP equipment on it, and if it has, would/should it normally have more than 1 slot available/capacity for allocation?

Is that, possibly, what the email from the Fibre team was referring to in terms of freeing up capacity?

Thanks...

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

You may find it on the pole behind 21/23 Deans Drive. Is that close enough to you.

( I hate poles in peoples back gardens, makes it really hard to see what is going on where and you cannot get a cherry picker to them. It does have the advantage no RTA is going to wipe them out)

Hopefully by the sounds of it, Openreach can mount another CBT onto 'pole 1' (which serves #16 indirectly with their FTTP) for your connection, and that will be that. You will be able to order.

😀👍

That's exactly what I am hoping for...

Is that extra "stuff" that's on Pole 1 FTTP stuff?

Plus it's probably good that Pole 1 is the pole that supplies my property directly, so that has to help...maybe!

Thanks

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Hopefully by the sounds of it, Openreach can mount another CBT onto 'pole 1' (which serves #16 indirectly with their FTTP) for your connection, and that will be that. You will be able to order.

😀👍

Hard to get a complete appreciation of what's exactly on that pole as the close up is of a section. There may be other gear on the side away from the camera. There certainly is a lot of copper DP gear in the photo, not unexpectedly.

Sit tight and they should hopefully be able to sort to a connection for you in the coming weeks.

Thanks...at least they haven't come back and said No! so that in itself is a good sign

Cheers...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Hard to get a complete appreciation of what's exactly on that pole as the close up is of a section. There may be other gear on the side away from the camera. There certainly is a lot of copper DP gear in the photo, not unexpectedly.

Sit tight and they should hopefully be able to sort to a connection for you in the coming weeks.

KevinM2

As Pheasant says, very difficult to see from the angle you took the pictures what is actually there.

We were hoping to see a black box with 4 / 8 or 12 "knobs" on. Each of these would serve one connection.

OR's response is more helpful and may lead to additional capacity being provided for you and maybe others. sounds like they only connected the fibre is one port.

I have recently gone through this on behalf of a local charity and it took about 4-6 weeks to provide additional capacity, although your case is slightly different in that only one connection exists whereas the charity was in a completely fibred area. (one of the first fibre first areas).

Edited by kitcat (Thu 14-Oct-21 20:51:40)

Thanks...that was, unfortunately, the only angle of the pole available from my garden...

I'll maybe pop round to my neighbour and ask to see if I can take a look at Pole 1, which is sat at the bottom of their garden...

But at least there's hope

Some photos of FTTP equipment

KevinM2

What you are looking for is the bobbly part on the end of the coiled fibre in APTMANs post below.

Is this what I am looking for?

CBT?

CBT?

This equipment is actually on the next pole down (let's call it Pole 0)...it is situated in the garden of 27 Dean Drive, and feeds Pole 1 (situated in the garden of 23 Dean Drive), and Pole 1 supplies my property...

Looking at the Bobbly thing (I take it, that is a CBT?), it looks like it has 8 connectors, each one I assume can supply FTTP to one house...and it looks like only 1 connector is in use, which makes sense and #16 is the only property in the area listed as having FTTP...

So, theoretically, Openreach could simply enable the remaining 7 bobbly bits, and that would then free up capacity for 7 additional FTTP connections...am I understanding that right?

With the CBT in place (assuming that's what it is), is it a fairly simple process for Openreach to enable those extra connections?

Thanks...

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

What you are looking for is the bobbly part on the end of the coiled fibre in APTMANs post below.

Yes that’s a CBT. Good news that there’s plenty of spare ports left.

There may be other capacity constraints in another part of the FTTP network, for example splitter ports at the splitter node, or indeed somewhere else along the food chain.

The obvious physical signs though are positive and so is the written update you had from Openreach, so it should hopefully not take them too long to enable more ports on the CBT to enable your service.

Edited by Pheasant (Fri 15-Oct-21 14:01:52)

Fingers crossed!

Thanks for confirming that it's a CBT...I will just wait to (hopefully) hear from Openreach...

Kevin

It's logged and acknowledged. I would push fortnightly or so for updates. Keep an eye on the checkers.

You wont likely see any 'upgrade' work being done as the splitter and other FTTP infrastructure upstream from your wont be readily visible, unless you're like batman

Good luck.

Looking at the Bobbly thing (I take it, that is a CBT?), it looks like it has 8 connectors,

There are 12 connectors - it's clearer on the second photo.

Only 1/12 ports in use. Wonder how many CBT ports they lit as part of the orig. FTTPoD connection to #16 ? Maybe just the one...?

Edit: clearly just the one! I *really* need a glass of wine. The question really is why didn't they light any more ports. Not like we don't pay enough for an FTTPoD connection

Edited by Pheasant (Fri 15-Oct-21 18:46:18)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Only 1/12 ports in use. Wonder how many CBT ports they lit as part of the orig. FTTPoD connection to #16 ? Maybe just the one...?

Edit: clearly just the one! I *really* need a glass of wine. The question really is why didn't they light any more ports. Not like we don't pay enough for an FTTPoD connection

That was the policy pre-March 2018. Back then, there was an extremely high monthly rental for FTTPoD the first three years (much of the build cost was spread over the contract), and it probably wouldn't have looked good to the purchaser if the neighbours could get standard-price FTTP at the same time.

The new pricing scheme front-loaded all the build costs. Of course, Openreach owns the infrastructure from day one, so if they want to provide service to anyone else over that same infrastructure, they are free to do so.

Given that 3 years have now passed, it would be nice if OR were to revisit those old FTTPoD sites and activate neighbours. It's probably such a small number of properties that it's not worth their time unless someone asks.

Yes indeed good point. I forget you and I got ours under the, as it was, “new” pricing scheme.

To be fair I don’t in the slightest begrudge my neighbors the ability to get standard price FTTP. For that matter I didn’t ask them go in with us when I ordered, as I just wanted a smooth path in, (and really knowing my then neighbours were retired school teachers, and I knew would think it sheer, utter and complete madness to possibly contemplate spending four figures on a broadband connection).

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The question really is why didn't they light any more ports.

And if they only intended to light one or two ports, why not use a 4-port CBT?

Edit - candlerb's explanation makes some sense.

Edited by ft247 (Fri 15-Oct-21 20:54:06)

#16 probably the only premises on the whole PON

KevinM2

They are normally quite good at coming back to you, (approx fortnightly).

Looking at the Think broadband map for Crossford their is no FTTP identified at all. So Pheasant is likely to be correct in that there may only be one customer on the whole PON ( Which is why Witchunt could identify everything quite so fast!).

It could be quite quick as they will just have to to do some or all of the below

a. Just connect existing fibres to each CBT Port.
b. Connect fibres at the splitter
c. Load data on the PON head end.
d. Update back end systems to show the locations and identities.

Once these are all done anyone served by that Pole (DP) should be able to get FTTP BUT not all of you, as capacity will be limited to 12!

Only if OR decide to do a whole scheme for the whole of Crossford will it take a longer time.

It will be difficult to show on the Thinkbroadband maps as small parts of 2/3 postcodes will have FTTP available and many others of the same ones will not. Much easier when the whole area is served.

That’s great, thanks…

I have mixed feelings about it. 50% hope and 50% trepidation! It sounds like it should be a fairly straightforward process to activate 11 nodes to a very small catchment, but on the other hand, OR might simply think that it is a lot of (expensive) work to simply connect everything up for a max 11 (new) customers…

I will just have to wait and see…but Crossford is only a very small village, so I can’t imagine we are on OR’s FTTP radar for general upgrade anytime soon, so this is probably my best/only chance at FTTP for the foreseeable…

Maybe I should take a bottle of champers round to #16 to thank them for coughing up for FTTPoD which is giving me this chance

I wonder what will be the quickest way to find out if the nodes are activated…will it be by an email from the OR team with my open case that I have with them, or should I simply check the Wholesale checker on a regular basis?

Thanks for the info!

Fingers crossed it all goes ahead!

Because OR normally close cases after a length of time, i'd ask the OR team of what sort of time scale that you are looking at for fttp to be available and then check the Wholesale checker and if the time frame has passed then go back to OR, you may find that the case is set closed status.

KevinM2

They will normally come back to you with timescales and whether they intend to do something.

When you get this you can start checking the Openreach checker on a weekly basis. Of course you may actually see the work being done if they need to connect the fibre at the pole!

They told me when the work was due to be done by and I checked from then. It took a further week to roll through all the different databases till the CPs showed it on their platforms. This is why I recommend theOR checker.

I have been following this thread and agree with others that it is rather difficult to spot the poles and overhead lines on Google maps. However you have now shown that CBTs are fitted which is good news, also the following comment for number 16 on the BT checker is also encouraging....

ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. A new ONT may be ordered and will be placed in Waiters list until the network is ready.

Which I would interpret as some part of the fibre network is still being built, so it just looks like a waiting game for you, keep on checking.

depends when the FOD was done if it was done pre 2019 you migth have issues as it depends what fibre was used to creat the FOD , so there might be ports at CBT but night not be spare fibre back to an approved termination point

there are a whole manner of reasons why it now might be more difficult / Expensive / Challenging now

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

also the following comment for number 16 on the BT checker is also encouraging....

ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. A new ONT may be ordered and will be placed in Waiters list until the network is ready.

Which I would interpret as some part of the fibre network is still being built, so it just looks like a waiting game for you, keep on checking.

That's not much help to the OP unfortunately.

The "spare port" mentioned is on the ONT. So number 16 has a 4 port ONT with at least 1 free port.
A new ONT would be placed on the waiters list. That's because the are no free active ports on the CBT. They will only have lit 1 CBT port for an older FTTPoD install.

So the message at the bottom of the table just confirms what many have deduced already.

Re the spare port stuff, I think the wholesale checker is wrong in that respect, my connection reports (and has always done):

“ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. A new ONT may be ordered.”

Well it’s always been a single port ONT. So I’m not sure where the mythical spare port is 😊

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Re the spare port stuff, I think the wholesale checker is wrong in that respect, my connection reports (and has always done):

“ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. A new ONT may be ordered.”

Well it’s always been a single port ONT. So I’m not sure where the mythical spare port is 😊

That looks like an error on the database. They appear to think you have a 4 port ONT.

I'm pretty sure the "spare port is available" message is referring to the ONT.

After two ONTs, and two service provider contracts, you’d think they’d get it right 🤣

Mine says:

"ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered."

Maybe I'm due a new 4-port Nokia...

The message is ambiguous, if a 4-port ONT is installed it is very likely that spare ports on the ONT are available so why would anyone want a new ONT? I am not convinced it refers to ports on the ONT being available.

So it would appear that more work is required to add more ports to the CBT, which as they have installed a 12 port unit, it would be reasonable to expect that these additional ports will be activated.

The CBT will have a 12-fibre cable, but I probably only one of those is spliced at the splitter. They'll have to splice some more.

Occasional database errors excluded..

Almost every single 4 port ONT installation has a message about a free port being available.
Almost every single 1 port ONT installation with active service has a message about no more ports being available.

With a property with a 4 port ONT and a full CBT the checker says... ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. Network is at capacity so a new ONT cannot be ordered.

I've never seen the free ports message on a 1 port ONT with active service.

I'm pretty sure it refers to free ports being available on the ONT.
Until this thread I had thought that was the general consensus of most people.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 17-Oct-21 20:11:07)

Good news (I think!)...

I was just out walking, and going past the house that has the pole with the CBT on it, when an OR van pulled up, and a guy got out. I started chatting to him, and he is there to connect 11 fibre connections to the CBT on the pole...perfect!

So, that sounds like the first step in getting availability to 11 more properties. He said it wouldn't take long to get the 11 connectors fitted, so presumably once that has been done, it should be a relatively simple, fairly quick process to get the systems fully connected and updated to show it as Available, rather than Waiting List...

I cannot complain about the service OR have given, as I only emailed them middle of last week, and that's them connecting the CBT less than a week later...

Fingers crossed, but it's looking more hopeful now!

That is good news.

Those CBTs are all pre-terminated with fibre and the connectors are already fitted, it’s a sealed unit with it fibre tail factory moulded in.

Perhaps that was the engineers ‘way’ of explaining in layman’s terms that the other ports on the CBT will be “lit”. In reality once the fibre connections going to the other 11 ports are spliced further along the cable (perhaps at the splitter node or track nodes) that feeds this CBT - all the ports that are spliced up to the splitter outputs are effectively lit. Perhaps also he was checking the power at the CBT ports after doing this.

In any event all good!

How long does it take to splice the fibre together, I think i remember that they now (assuming they have the kit) do multiple fibres at a time?

Pretty quick. They will very likely just be splicing a core at a time with a single core-aligning machine like a Sumitomo T72. Even then a good operator can prep and splice in a few minutes per splice. Getting setup usually takes the longest. Cut, strip, cleave, splice and heatshrink steps can all be done fairly quickly.

i.e. it could be an hour or two to do the work, but 2 weeks to schedule the work, and 2 weeks to schedule the auditor to check the work, and 2 weeks to update the GIS records and database to say that the service is now available to order at those other properties. Patience may be required

Excellent news that you're going to get it though.

True. Hopefully for the OP as everything else would appear to be in place, it’s a relatively straightforward task. With any database and back office tasks hopefully not taking weeks and weeks.

I'll be checking daily to see that "Available" notice!

The downside is, I am currently in contract with Sky (FTTC) for another 12 months (mainly as I didn't expect FTTP to be available to me for another 18 months), so I will probably need to stick with Sky for now, and simply switch over to their UltraFast+ (500Mbps) service...but still a heck of a lot better than the 35Mb I am getting at the mo...

I take it once Wholesale update their database and show WBC FTTP as Available for me, Sky will also show it as available at the same time, and be able to process an order? I won't need Sky to update their database aswell, will I?

Thanks...

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

I take it once Wholesale update their database and show WBC FTTP as Available for me, Sky will also show it as available at the same time, and be able to process an order? I won't need Sky to update their database aswell, will I?

It may take a day or two. In addition, not all providers on the OR FTTP network sell in all areas: they may not have any FTTP cable links at your head-end exchange, or have insufficient capacity to take on new customers. Hence it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to get service from Sky, although I believe it's quite likely. (Even BT Wholesale itself sometimes has interconnect capacity issues at particular exchanges).

Ah, I hadn't thought of that...

Oh well, if it becomes available on OR Wholesale, but Sky cannot provide it, I will just need to pay the early termination of my Sky broadband contract to join BT (or some other ISP)...but hopefully, Sky will have it.

Thanks

Try a “proxy” connection request with #16 for Sky FTTP and see what their system says.

Good thinking!

I just tried for #16 and Sky's UltraFast+ (470-515Mb estimated speed) is available to order for £43/month...

So, hopefully, once the OR database is updated, I will get the same...

Hopefully, that's another good sign

Thanks

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Try a “proxy” connection request with #16 for Sky FTTP and see what their system says.

KevinM2

Don't use the BTwholesale checker, use the OR one. that will give you the first sight. The others will all be later as it rolls through the systems. It also means that any missing connectivity will not affect the result.

Ah, thanks for that…I’ll make sure I use the OR checker from now on…

Cheers!

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

Don't use the BTwholesale checker, use the OR one. that will give you the first sight. The others will all be later as it rolls through the systems. It also means that any missing connectivity will not affect the result.

kitcat - I do respect your very informed posts….but the Openreach checker is, (with brutal honesty) pants!

Despite the deficiencies, DB errors, delays and foibles of the BTW checker, it provides on the whole, far more colour and detail. Although obviously slanted to all the CPs that only use BTW service, that is nevertheless a *very* significant proportion of the possible market.

Otherwise I suppose really it’s off to check what TalkTalk and Sky (checkers) to confirm what they can or can’t deliver, and perhaps Vodafone. I just don’t get the details from the OR checker.

Pheasant

I agree with you when looking at all technologies. and that it's output is basic. However when looking for FTTP info, it is the first place to show as it is the originating database. It also is the best ( Only) place you can check address and served status within Openreach data with the ability to contact them to correct issues.

I have used it successfully to get premises that are not on their database added, and to correct errors between their database and Royal Mail. Both within 1 month of contacting them.

I have also used it to get a premises that didn't show with FTTP between two others corrected.

So when looking for FTTP data only it is by far the best place to start.

BTWholesale will show a far more complete picture of potential services via BT and BTW resellers but has no way of seeing whether you can get FTTP via OR via other operators ( doesn't overcomes the Cablelink issues) and no way of correcting OR data issues.

So correct tool for the job is my take.

Edited by kitcat (Wed 20-Oct-21 09:37:05)

Great news! Just checked and Full Fibre is now available for my address, so OR really pulled out all the stops, and from me contacting them, to FTTP showing as available, took a total of 9 days! That’s impressive!

I now just need to decide between staying with Sky and taking Fibre 500 (min 400Mb guarantee) at £42 per month, or going over to BT and taking their Fibre 900 package for £47 per month, but I would also incur a £75 early termination fee from Sky for switching my broadband early…effectively adding another £4 per month (£75/18) making it £51 per month for 900Mb

So basically, £9 per month extra between 500 & 900Mb…

Decisions, decisions…

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Try a “proxy” connection request with #16 for Sky FTTP and see what their system says.

KevinM2

Brilliant news.

Now the hard decision making takes place!

Don't tell the neighbours until you have ordered or all 11 spares may get taken up.

What a superb result!

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

I now just need to decide between staying with Sky and taking Fibre 500 (min 400Mb guarantee) at £42 per month, or going over to BT and taking their Fibre 900 package for £47 per month, but I would also incur a £75 early termination fee from Sky for switching my broadband early…

I don't think any realistic home Internet user will notice the difference between 500M and 900M, except when looking at the number shown on a speedtest. Also, unless you're wired up with ethernet, it will only highlight limitations in your wifi.

Both Sky and BT do IPv6, and both provide digital voice on an ATA port on the router, so there's little to choose between them service-wise.

Therefore my recommendation would be to stay with Sky. Put the money saved towards better equipment if you need it. If you *really* feel the need to upgrade after 18 months you can (but I don't think you will).

TBH even if you took the 160/30 service it would be like night-and-day after FTTC, and 500/70 is about treble that.

EDIT: you can also trade speed for features and customer service. I have 300/50 with Cerberus for £40+VAT = £48, which gives me a block of static IPv4 and IPv6; and at renewal time I talk to the same guy each time (hi Bob!). And the price doesn't rise at end of term - I only renewed so I could take advantage of a *lower* standard price. I would take that over BT consumer any day.

Edited by candlerb (Thu 21-Oct-21 10:00:21)

I would argue, that beyond 300mbits even with a large family and multiple 4k hdr streams, you aren't going to normally notice a difference. Unless you download the latest 100gb game and even then.

I need the upload so its interesting that the 900mbits bt offering is down to 47 quids.

Good result Kevin. Enjoy it. 😊

Congrats Kevin and i hope you enjoy your new www speed

That's the other pain with BT: completely non-transparent pricing.

Right now the standard pricing at
https://www.bt.com/broadband/deals
is offering me 900M for £60 data+voice, or £55 for data only (free router)

https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre
is offering me 300M for £45 (plus £10 for router)

https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre-240
is offering me 300M for £40 (plus £10 for router)

https://www.bt.com/broadband/bristol
is offering me 900M for £55, free router, and some XBox bundle (although I'm not in Bristol)

This isn't a game I want to play.

Sounds like you’re well versed in the rules even if you don’t want to play 🤣

I had a chat with Sky, and got my 500Mb price down to £40 per month, so I went with that in the end…

Install date of Nov 5th, so only a couple of weeks to wait, but it’s good that Sky’s UltraFast+ (500Mb) has a minimum guaranteed speed of 400Mb, whereas the BT 900Mb package “only” has a 450Mb guarantee…

So, I’m happy with the Sky offering, and I’m sure it will be night and day over my current 30Mb copper connection! Can’t wait…

Thanks everyone for all of the help

The worst bit is that sometimes the offer you choose, you have to chase bt for.

Its all very well doing regional, promo and standard pricing, but be more transparent (which is the right word to be honest )

the XXXmbit Guarantee is basically a chocolate teapot !

Most medium to small servers (thats most of the internet minus google/aws/samsung/apple/facebook and cdns etc) are on 1gbit lines with sometimes 10/100gbit routers further on.

Proving that your connection is slower than 400mbits over a 24hour period is going to be hard and more likely to be a fault, and they can always come back with that its your equipment ..

Great news, you didn't have to wait long, maybe Openreach were planning to activate the CBTs and you have hurried them up a bit.

I’m sure you’ll be chuffed when that is connected. Good result. Don’t worry about the minimum speed guarantees. When compared to FTTC you won’t know yourself. Enjoy.

In reply to a post by Taras:

the XXXmbit Guarantee is basically a chocolate teapot !

I think it's a fantastic guarantee.

What you say is true about speeds to random servers on the internet. That's not what the guarantee covers though.

The guarantee covers speeds from Sky to their Hub, from an approved speed tester. They won't entertain a claim that you aren't getting X speeds from server Y based on country Z.

Sky's 400Mb/s guarantee and BT's 450Mb/s guarantee are considerably higher than what OpenReach guarantee either of them on the products they consume.
It is basically a guarantee on their network and on the PON.

For a residential service and taking it for what it actually is (not a guarantee over the entire internet), imo it is a great guarantee.

and they can always come back with that its your equipment ..

Many providers now have a speed test built in to their Hub, ruling out ALL consumer hardware.
Not sure if Sky have this but the BT Smart Hub 2 does.
They both require their Hub to be connected to make a speed claim

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 21-Oct-21 15:25:40)

I just wanted to say that I am delighted with the price I got my Fibre 500 for from Sky…

Currently paying £25 per month for Superfast getting 34Mb…so for another £15 per month, my connection jumps from 34MB to 500MB, and with zero setup or equipment costs…total bargain!

14 days and counting

Quick question, if I may please...

My Full Fibre is scheduled for install today (8am - 1pm)...

I had a call from Openreach yesterday confirming the install for today, and was told that someone would call when they are on their way, so I made sure my telephone was with me when I went to bed last night, in case they called early...

However, when I woke up at 8:30, I noticed that my phone had died (ran out of battery) overnight, as I stupidly forgot to plug it in to charge it...

When I charged it and switched it on, I noticed 2 missed calls at 8:01 and 8:15 (from the same OR number that called yesterday)...I tried to call the number back, but the number doesn't accept incoming calls (the message said)...

So, can I ask, will OR still turn up, or, because I didn't answer the phone to them, have I missed my slot and will need to rebook it?

It would be handy if I could call them to see, but I don't have a number, unfortunately...

Thanks

In reply to a post by kitcat:

KevinM2

Brilliant news.

Now the hard decision making takes place!

Don't tell the neighbours until you have ordered or all 11 spares may get taken up.

Perhaps you should call Sky, they should be able to chase Openreach and see what's happening.

I had thought about calling Sky (with there being no way to contact OR), but I was concerned that it would add an element of confusion to everything, as Sky aren't really involved with the installation side of things, merely the placing of the order...

Plus, I often (more often than not) get a non English speaking person when I call Sky, and trying to explain things can be very difficult sometimes...

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Perhaps you should call Sky, they should be able to chase Openreach and see what's happening.

If you can't contact Openreach directly what other options have you got?

Well, the guy turned up (about 1:15) and spent 2 hours installing the new fibre, and so far, it's all looking great...

Speedtest is fluctuating a little (over hardwired ethernet cable), and gives me between 380Mb and 460Mb (but upload is a nice steady 70Mb)...the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise. Is that still the case with FTTP? I know the system needs to find it's stable snr level for copper, but is it the same for full fibre?

I might tinker a little by trying some other LAN cables, but even so, night and day over my 30Mb FTTC...

Thanks

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

If you can't contact Openreach directly what other options have you got?

KevinM2

Did they turn up? Have you now got fibre?

Let us know what happened.

Edit: Obviously typing while you were typing, glad it is all working and wondering how many neighbours know it is available now!

Edited by kitcat (Fri 05-Nov-21 20:05:42)

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise.

Training problem there.

I did think it was a little odd, but I didn't know any better...

Should my FTTP be pretty much stable at the upper end of the speed package (Fibre 500)?

Don't get me wrong, what I have now is light years ahead of my copper connection, but I did think it would basically sit at somewhere near the 500 mark, and barely move from that level...

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise.

Training problem there.

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Don't get me wrong, what I have now is light years ahead of my copper connection, but I did think it would basically sit at somewhere near the 500 mark, and barely move from that level...

It should to services on the ISP network. Anything you connect to that is not hosted on your ISPs network is crossing the internet so you will be sharing the connectivity with all the other users.

Do tests with Ethernet connected laptop or desktop (not WiFi connected laptop or mobile phone / tablet) and use various test sites, e.g. Speedtest.net, as well as fast.com as well as Thinkbroadband.

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Well, the guy turned up (about 1:15) and spent 2 hours installing the new fibre, and so far, it's all looking great...

Speedtest is fluctuating a little (over hardwired ethernet cable), and gives me between 380Mb and 460Mb (but upload is a nice steady 70Mb)...the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise. Is that still the case with FTTP? I know the system needs to find it's stable snr level for copper, but is it the same for full fibre?

I might tinker a little by trying some other LAN cables, but even so, night and day over my 30Mb FTTC...

Thanks

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

If you can't contact Openreach directly what other options have you got?

Under a month and you’re all connected. I’d call that a result 👍

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise.

Training problem there.

Just to clarify: that means training of the engineer, not modems training up on the line

The full speed is available from the instant it's turned on.

Thought it had to train where all the bends in the fibre were, so it knew when to speed up and slow down! 🤣

What we need is a fibre with no bends or core for that matter. Light travels faster in air than glass….hmmm hollow core fibre now there’s a concept! 😉

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Just to clarify: that means training of the engineer, not modems training up on the line

LOL, yes, we are not back in the days of acoustic couplers thankfully

The full speed is available from the instant it's turned on.

As is the case with Virgin Media.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

What we need is a fibre with no bends or core for that matter. Light travels faster in air than glass….hmmm hollow core fibre now there’s a concept! 😉

total internal reflection?

🤣 I still think lasers are a form of witchcraft.

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

.the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise. Is that still the case with FTTP?

for fttp, nope but you may be placed on on the wrong profile initially. If you are on x profile your speeds shouldn't fluctuate - negating other factors such as congestion and server load etc .

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Hi,

Just a quick one for all you people in the know...

I got a letter from BT today saying New Full Fibre Has Arrived and I can order Full Fibre 500 today...however, I am not able to place an order, and when I phoned the BT order number, they tell me the system is not showing it as available.

I assume that BT have just jumped the gun a little, but my question is, is BT sending out letters usually a final stage of availability? or could it simply be some sort of error?

My postcode is KY12 8NZ if that's any help, but the BT DSL checker doesn't show any FTTP availability, other than Waiting List for FTTP...

Thanks for the help...

Some addresses are showing it as available and some are not.

Number 28 shows it's available via Overhead feed with potential Line of sight issues.

Number 6 is showing as unavailable

Edited by jhorton88 (Sun 14-Nov-21 16:16:07)

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

.the guy did say that it would take about 10 days for it to stabilise. Is that still the case with FTTP?

for fttp, nope but you may be placed on on the wrong profile initially. If you are on x profile your speeds shouldn't fluctuate - negating other factors such as congestion and server load etc .

There was also the dodgy firmware issue in certain BT Smart Hub routers that was capping speeds, but I think that’s now been patched.

In reply to a post by jhorton88:

In reply to a post by KevinM2:

Hi,

Just a quick one for all you people in the know...

I got a letter from BT today saying New Full Fibre Has Arrived and I can order Full Fibre 500 today...however, I am not able to place an order, and when I phoned the BT order number, they tell me the system is not showing it as available.

I assume that BT have just jumped the gun a little, but my question is, is BT sending out letters usually a final stage of availability? or could it simply be some sort of error?

My postcode is KY12 8NZ if that's any help, but the BT DSL checker doesn't show any FTTP availability, other than Waiting List for FTTP...

Thanks for the help...

Some addresses are showing it as available and some are not.

Number 28 shows it's available via Overhead feed with potential Line of sight issues.

Number 6 is showing as unavailable

You may have missed it amongst all the posts, but the long and the short of it is that the OP was successfully connected up last Friday 5 November. Following interventions, the additional hitherto unused (and unlit) 11 ports on the CBT serving his property (installed as part of an earlier pre-2018 FTTPoD build to no.16) were lit up and he was able to order a Sky 500 Mbps FTTP package.

Happy story the end end

it is nice to have a happy ending for peps who come in here with issues getting fttc/p