FTTP, BT Digital Voice and Porting

I'm considering a BT Essentials FTTP product that comes with Digital Voice - I currently have FTTC.

Couple of questions:

1 - Is Digital Voice my only option or can I use an alternative VOIP provider like Sipgate - does the SH2 router allow third party VOIP ?

2 - If the answer above is that Digital Voice is the only option then does porting take place automatically when I order the FTTP ( I was planning to run FTTP and FTTC in parallel for a couple of weeks so I had a back-up if there were any issues)

3 - are there any big downsides to Digital Voice ?

Thanks

In reply to a post by mikegg:

1 - Is Digital Voice my only option or can I use an alternative VOIP provider like Sipgate - does the SH2 router allow third party VOIP ?

It's not your only option. You can use one or more independent VOIP providers (in addition to the BT Digital Voice) service over your BT FTTP service, as you could over any other broadband service.

If you wish to use BT's Digital Voice, then that is provided for exclusive use with their own SH2 router. However any other concurrent VoIP services, would simply run as Over The Top (OTT) services, to whatever other end point devices you wish to use.

You could NOT however use the SH2 as an end-point device for other indy VoIP providers. Hope that distinction makes sense.

2 - If the answer above is that Digital Voice is the only option then does porting take place automatically when I order the FTTP ( I was planning to run FTTP and FTTC in parallel for a couple of weeks so I had a back-up if there were any issues)

It's not the only option. As noted above the BT FTTP service itself is agnostic when it comes to carriage of any third party VoIP services which are delivered Over The Top of their FTTP broadband service.

You could also decide to contract with BT for a "data only" FTTP service.

As far as I'm aware if you intend the keep the FTTC service running (rather than migrate the service) - then any landline number associated with it stays as long as you keep running FTTC.

So whilst you kept the FTTC, if you were to contract with BT for FTTP (with Digital Voice) you would be given a new landline number for use with the digital voice service.

Bear in mind that the landline number on FTTC would get lost, at the point of service termination, unless you ceased it by porting that number to another VoIP provider.

3 - are there any big downsides to Digital Voice ?

I don't know if you'd consider these 'big, but the two I'd consider are:
1. if you decide in future to port out the number that is associated with Digital Voice to another voice provider, then the act of porting the number would cease your entire broadband service as well, because Digital Voice is contracted as a bundled service with BT. It's all or nothing.

2. Digital Voice is only able to be accessed/provisioned through the voice port on the BT supplied SH2 router. There are no other hardware devices that are compatible with their digital voice service. Most third-party VoIP providers are far more flexible when it comes to how you access their VoIP service, they don't tie you to a specific bit of hardware (or software).

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

If you wish to use BT's Digital Voice, then that is provided for exclusive use with their own SH2 router. However any other concurrent VoIP services, would simply run as Over The Top (OTT) services, to whatever other end point devices you wish to use.

You could NOT however use the SH2 as an end-point device for other indy VoIP providers. Hope that distinction makes sense.

Many thanks - just to be clear I assume you mean I would need something like a Gigaset N300A to 'handle' the VOIP as the SH2 can't be used ?

Correct Mike, you could use any one (or more) of the following as an end-point for a VOIP subscription:

1. DECT base with VoIP function (e.g. Gigaset N300A IP etc etc)
2. Softphone client on a laptop/PC
3. Softphone client on a smartphone
4. Analogue Telephony Adapter (ATA) <- This is much like option 1, except you plug either your existing PSTN handset in, possibly even a fax machine (although yuck)
5. A software PBX like Asterisk (this is getting into more advanced features/functions etc expected of business phone systems)

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 17-Oct-21 19:53:27)

To add a further option - A dedicate IP desk phone like a snom or Yealink .

And of course you can have one or more of the options above on your network.

Good pickup (pardon the pun)

There are also cordless WiFi iP handsets, but the battery life of them has generally been judged to be inferior to DECT handsets

Although there is a degree to which you can run simultaneous options above, the number of simultaneous SIP registrations is limited by the provider. For example sipgate supports two simultaneous logins. Beyond that you need a device to act as a SIP ‘concentrator’ (effectively a soft switch or PBX) - something like a VoIP supported DECT base can support multiple handsets.

So for example if you were to have multiple IP handsets (more than 2), then you need to configure them via something like an Asterisk box, which maintains the main SIP trunk registration(s) with the VoIP provider(s) and additional handsets and other extensions are configured and maintain their own individual SIP registrations (extensions) to the ‘PBX’.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 17-Oct-21 21:00:10)

With the hosted VoIP service from Voipfone. I have yet to find any limitations or complexities you mention on their platform. Basically you form a single, or multiply groups, of phones and an incoming call will ring all the "extensions" in that group. Whoever picks the call up first, kills the ringing tone on the other extensions which may display a message "Call answered elsewhere".

Of course a very comprehensive VoIP setup may also have added an entry system intercom, a Broadcast facility, a help call point and extension bells. Been there and done all of that.

The icing on the cake is if you should every move, then you can take your number to your new abode. Staying put you may decide to run with another ISP in your home, then as soon as their broadband service is live, so will your VoIP system spring into life.

It must be a bomber for a BT customer using their Digital Voice Service to have a smooth transfer of their number to another hosted VoIP service, if indeed it is possible.

The downside to VoIP is that you should consider how you maintain a voice service when the power goes off.

Sounds great. How much are Voipfone charging for their hosted PBX service per month, including any geographic number?

You can have multiple device registrations on a SIP "line" with AAISP too. It is possible to roll your own call routing too - you need to rent a number for each group of phones / leg of IVR.

I did enquire if they had internal numbers for these, but they don't so everything effectively has a DDI number. IIRC the Daisy VoIP platform is similar in this respect.

Well, here is my last bill from Voipfone:
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of 2 Virtual PBX Call Group £2.000
Renewal of 7 Virtual PBX Extensions £7.000
VAT @ 20% £4.80
Total £28.80
It is only recently that Voipfone increased their geographical number price from £2. You do get a free number but it is an 056 variety. All my devices have an extension number. All calls to a number, POTS style or extension number, registered with Voipfone are free.

I have a softphone phone on my mobile so that in addition to its usual 07 number it is also reachable through an 01252 number.

Voipfone allows you to have free calls to all of their subscribers. You might be unaware that they use Voipfone and therefore dial their advertised number but the call will be free.

They do have call plans but it is not economical for me to use any of them.

I have no idea what other hosted VoIP providers would charge for an equivalent service but I feel I am getting value for money with my setup. Now if another provider was cheaper, I would have to factor in the porting out charges from Voipfone and of course embark on a learning curve for their control panel, if indeed you get one.

My registrations are used via the ATA within the Vigor router, a Gigaset N510 IP PRO (with three wireless devices), a softphone (in the mobile) and two snom D375's. The use of any one device still leaves the other devices able to receive and make calls.

I accept that what I have is most likely OTT for most users of VoIP but there you go.

When getting rid of my landline I setup the planned 4G replacement first and set up a free geographic number with Sipgate for testing. After a month of successful testing I migrated the old landline number to Sipgate for £20 which also ceased the line and ADSL automatically. To do the same you would order the FTTP as a fresh install and keep the FTTC, then, once you are happy with whoever you used for VOIP, transfer the landline number to the VOIP provider and your FTTC and landline will cease with the FTTP still in place. FTTP and old landline number will be with 2 providers and no longer linked so you can transfer one without affecting the other.

Yes that’s effectively a “fully hosted” service - in effect replacing and replicating what would/could be done on premises with a soft switch or PBX.

Probably more for oriented for business (or home office) use rather than a simple ‘resi’ voip line.

In reply to a post by kommando:

When getting rid of my landline I setup the planned 4G replacement first and set up a free geographic number with Sipgate for testing. After a month of successful testing I migrated the old landline number to Sipgate for £20 which also ceased the line and ADSL automatically. To do the same you would order the FTTP as a fresh install and keep the FTTC, then, once you are happy with whoever you used for VOIP, transfer the landline number to the VOIP provider and your FTTC and landline will cease with the FTTP still in place. FTTP and old landline number will be with 2 providers and no longer linked so you can transfer one without affecting the other.

Yes a solid solution with almost zero prospect of loosing your landline number.

This thread has sort of focused on when you already have a FTTP service with Digital Voice where the ISP is BT. Along comes an offer from another ISP who you would like to subscribed to and port your number to a hosted VoIP service of another provider. You can't continue to use the BT router and therefore a new router is required.

Thoughts of how such a bullet proof migration can be organised are welcomed.
.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yes that’s effectively a “fully hosted” service - in effect replacing and replicating what would/could be done on premises with a soft switch or PBX.

Probably more for oriented for business (or home office) use rather than a simple ‘resi’ voip line.

So many have found that working from home is best suited for them and effectively need something more than a simple VoIP service that replaces their landline. Usually a dedicate outhouse is used kitted out equivalent to an office environment. Enter into the equation communication between the two buildings and a VoIP doorbell that can be answered either in the house or outbuilding, then VoIP becomes the right solution.

Moving your landline connection from the master socket to a port on the router just doesn't cut it for this ever increasing number of people.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

This thread has sort of focused on when you already have a FTTP service with Digital Voice where the ISP is BT. Along comes an offer from another ISP who you would like to subscribed to and port your number to a hosted VoIP service of another provider. You can't continue to use the BT router and therefore a new router is required.

Thoughts of how such a bullet proof migration can be organised are welcomed.
.

Once on BT FTTP with Digital voice then the issue is there is no way to find out the VOIP settings, as BT keep them hidden, until you have moved to the new ISP and your new ISP gives you the VOIP settings for their router. Exactly why I got my old landline ported to Sipgate. after getting 4G working.

So the safe way would be to get a second FTTP line up and running with a non ISP VOIP service before then porting your old FTTP number to a VOIP provider. This would then cease your old FTTP. Cost would be the port plus one months FTTP and a new FTTP install charge. This assumes your first FTTP line is beyond minimum term. But you would end up with a 4 port ONT.

In reply to a post by kommando:

This assumes your first FTTP line is beyond minimum term. But you would end up with a 4 port ONT.

Have they started deploying the new 4-port ONTs yet? You might end up with a second hole in the wall, a second cable to the CBT and a second ONT.

Seems a pretty extreme way to port a voice line.

It's because the FTTP service and the voice service (on copper) are part of the same package bundle. Otherwise migrating the voice would be straightforward.

If the OP is within contract, I'd suggest they use the SH2 until the contract ends. Of course, that just kicks the issue into the long grass.

Once they're out of contract: one option would be to port the phone number to VOIP just before they go away on holiday, which will probably trigger FTTP cease. As soon as the number has moved (which you can test remotely by using a SIP client), place an order for new FTTP service. With a bit of luck it should be online by the time they get back.

They may have to time their holiday carefully, to avoid paying out-of-contract prices to BT for an extended period of time.

Thanks for all the feedback.

If I do go with BT then its useful to know I have another option for VOIP rather than DV (I have also found that call charges are 20p/min or a monthly package at a minimum of £7/month which seems unbelievable given its VOIP.

I am also aware they do Data Only packages but these seem to be more expensive than taking DV, so I would just get it with a random new number and use my existing 'ported' number with a third party VOIP provider

I make no outgoing calls on my landline, I only keep the number because the NHS still use it contact me despite numerous updates giving them my mobile number. So its with Sipgate on the basic plan, no charge for incoming or monthly fees. I bought £10 credit 3 years ago and I am now down to £9.84. As I am on 4G then the router gives me free calls as well as my mobile so no need to use landline.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well, here is my last bill from Voipfone:
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of UK Geographic Number 012527xxxxx £3.000
Renewal of 2 Virtual PBX Call Group £2.000
Renewal of 7 Virtual PBX Extensions £7.000
VAT @ 20% £4.80
Total £28.80
It is only recently that Voipfone increased their geographical number price from £2. You do get a free number but it is an 056 variety. All my devices have an extension number. All calls to a number, POTS style or extension number, registered with Voipfone are free.

I have a softphone phone on my mobile so that in addition to its usual 07 number it is also reachable through an 01252 number.

Voipfone allows you to have free calls to all of their subscribers. You might be unaware that they use Voipfone and therefore dial their advertised number but the call will be free.

They do have call plans but it is not economical for me to use any of them.

I have no idea what other hosted VoIP providers would charge for an equivalent service but I feel I am getting value for money with my setup. Now if another provider was cheaper, I would have to factor in the porting out charges from Voipfone and of course embark on a learning curve for their control panel, if indeed you get one.

My registrations are used via the ATA within the Vigor router, a Gigaset N510 IP PRO (with three wireless devices), a softphone (in the mobile) and two snom D375's. The use of any one device still leaves the other devices able to receive and make calls.

I accept that what I have is most likely OTT for most users of VoIP but there you go.

Are you badly affected with the latest reported outage / DoS attack?

Do you think the attacks have made you consider moving away from a fully hosted solution or away from Voipfone?

Re: The questions:
Are you badly affected with the latest reported outage / DoS attack?

Do you think the attacks have made you consider moving away from a fully hosted solution or away from Voipfone?

Well it has been a major inconvenience, that is for sure, bur there is resilience in the configuration that when these events like this do happen, an auto divert kicks in and another non VoIP number rings. I don't think you have fully grasped the effort that would be involved to jump ship and use another hosted service. In any event, there would be no guarantees that whoever was chosen would not suffer the same fate.

Recently TESCO customers were unable to use many of their web based services, but I don't see any signs of a mass stampede to use other grocer stores or web based facilities; short of them ceasing trading, that wasn't going to happen.

But there is a wider issue here in so much as all voice calls placed in the future will be over VoIP. Security has to be seriously ramped up so that Denial of Service attacks cannot succeed.

Hardly a day goes by when some part of the internet has been mischievously been brought to its knees. It seems that the internet isn't as solid and reliable as it should be. Anyone got a plan to put that right I ask?

How complex is your setup - number of extensions, hunt/ring groups any IVR etc?

Would you consider bringing it back 'in-house' and hosting your own resilient asterisk based box? You can engineer in as much resilience as as you wish and add as much functionality (quite possibly more actually) as you can with a hosted solution, for a moderate amount of effort and cost up front.

You then have there freedom to chose multiple SIP trunk providers, with DDI etc ranges to your hearts content.

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 26-Oct-21 15:34:00)

Well now let me see.

Basically:
Numbers DDI 31
Extensions 34
Groups 9
IVR 6 Professional Sound Recording applied. DDI option on.
Cloud Recording
Call Queuing
Voice Mails
Business Hours Groups 7
Geographical Sites 6
Softphones 3

Devices in Use:
Snom D375 Extensively Customized. Some with expansion units.
N510 IP PRO
DrayTek ATA within Router
Algo 8180 Broadcast and Extension Bell Facility

Features:
BLF
PSTN Failover
Call Diverts
Night Service
Gateways to other recovery operators
Direct connection to the Police
Dual ISPs for continuity of service

I don't intend to fix something that isn't broken. The upheaval to switch to another hosted provider or an in-house solution would be massive for a 365/24/7 organisation.

None of that seems particularly onerous. You aren’t or shouldn’t ever be locked into one service provider. Be that email, hosting, voice or whatever. You may think you are particularly unique but the reality this is bread and butter stuff.

Anyhow. Good luck with Voipfone. Let’s hope the Russians leave them be at some point.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

None of that seems particularly onerous. You aren’t or shouldn’t ever be locked into one service provider. Be that email, hosting, voice or whatever. You may think you are particularly unique but the reality this is bread and butter stuff.

Anyhow. Good luck with Voipfone. Let’s hope the Russians leave them be at some point.

A previous hosted provider we were with ceased trading and I therefore know the pain of migrating to someone else, at least there were no porting fees payable in that case. Every device in use required to be reconfigured with new credentials and there was a learning curve for their control panel. It all takes a lot of time to ensure everything is working as thought.

There is nothing ultra special about Voipfone although there are features they have which are not found with other providers. We are certainly not locked in with them and could jump ship at any time if there was a need.

Luck doesn't come into the equation when using Voipfone. Disrupting business processes can, and does happen and is rife. It has become the norm for today. Where you have state funded hackers, then for a UK business to be ahead of the game is a major headache.

I guess you feel that your chosen providers for services are the bees knees surrounded with a strong firewall. We shall see if that is indeed the case.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

None of that seems particularly onerous. You aren’t or shouldn’t ever be locked into one service provider. Be that email, hosting, voice or whatever. You may think you are particularly unique but the reality this is bread and butter stuff.

Anyhow. Good luck with Voipfone. Let’s hope the Russians leave them be at some point.

A previous hosted provider we were with ceased trading and I therefore know the pain of migrating to someone else, at least there were no porting fees payable in that case. Every device in use required to be reconfigured with new credentials and there was a learning curve for their control panel. It all takes a lot of time to ensure everything is working as thought.

There is nothing ultra special about Voipfone although there are features they have which are not found with other providers. We are certainly not locked in with them and could jump ship at any time if there was a need.

Luck doesn't come into the equation when using Voipfone. Disrupting business processes can, and does happen and is rife. It has become the norm for today. Where you have state funded hackers, then for a UK business to be ahead of the game is a major headache.

I guess you feel that your chosen providers for services are the bees knees surrounded with a strong firewall. We shall see if that is indeed the case.

You certainly haven’t had much ‘luck’ with hosted VoIP solutions. My suggestion was to consider doing this another way, effectively not putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak, and having more control over supplier resilience.

I do hope Voipfone get back up and operating correctly soon.

All the best