Would regular (weekly) power cuts have any impact on FTTP?

Other than the FTTP being down during the power cut, is there any other issues that might arise? Be it to the modem or what.

Loss of telephony if you use VoIP, if over copper it will remain.

If it is that frequent, then you need a UPS unit!

In reply to a post by Xuse:

Other than the FTTP being down during the power cut, is there any other issues that might arise? Be it to the modem or what.

Not for a simple power cut (there is no training etc as there is with copper/DSL).

Different matter entirely if its a surge or lighting strike. These can and do have a possibly detrimental (and sometime destructive) outcome.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

If it is that frequent, then you need a UPS unit!

Been thinking about it, but apparently some of them are quite noisy. Need to do a bit of research.
Had an appointment today with utility company in case it's something on my end, but they cancelled at the last minute.

Edited by Xuse (Fri 26-Nov-21 14:38:33)

In reply to a post by Xuse:

Had an appointment today with utility company in case it's something on my end,

Mmmmnnn - at your end?? A general power cut - that affects not just you but all your neighbours - by definition has nothing to do with you - its a cut on the supply side.

If it was something 'on your end' then your main (DNO) fuse (or breaker) would go - and you certainly would be getting questions from the DNO.....

Mmmmnnn - at your end?? A general power cut - that affects not just you but all your neighbours - by definition has nothing to do with you - its a cut on the supply side.

If it was something 'on your end' then your main (DNO) fuse (or breaker) would go - and you certainly would be getting questions from the DNO.....

Good to know, but also that's unfortunate as I was hoping it was something they would fix.

Edited by Xuse (Fri 26-Nov-21 14:46:53)

Similar demarcation in a way to telecoms; the DNO are responsible for their network up to and including the supply at the customer connected side of their supply fuse/breaker in your property.

If there was a peculiar issue on the individual cable connecting your property to their network for example they would fix it. As opposed to if you had an abnormal load or equipment that was causing the supply to fault, then that is your problem.

It would be very unusual for a customer connection to bring down the supply affecting other customers. That is why your connection is fused/limited with a 60 or 100 Amp fuse or breaker.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

If it is that frequent, then you need a UPS unit!

Been thinking about it, but apparently some of them are quite noisy. Need to do a bit of research.

We seem to go through phases of power cuts, none for months then one every few days for a couple of weeks.
Hasn't seemed to affected the FTTP, but have been thinking of getting a UPS, it wouldn't need to be that powerful, just enough for ONT, router, and cordless phone, for an hour (or two), a guide for this would be useful.

If you can work out the power draw on the items you want then you can work out how long a UPS will give you power for. Some of the 850VA ones will give you around 170 mins with a 20W draw.

For this sort of application, could also consider using a DC powerbank (with pass-through charging) to mimic a traditional UPS. Effectively a battery, with a plug-pack input and selectable voltage DC output. For most stuff that uses a DC input it (like ONTs and routers) it should be more efficient than using a big AC/AC UPS also a lot smaller and totally silent.

Have one here that I'm going to setup with a ThinkCentre micro-PC that runs our VoIP server. This has selectable 5v/8.4v/9v/12v/16v/20v output on the DC side and is rated @ 185 Wh and a bag full of adapter cables to suit.

Straight 12V output and standard 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector would suit an Openreach ONT and most domestic routers.

Just a thought.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Similar demarcation in a way to telecoms; the DNO are responsible for their network up to and including the supply at the customer connected side of their supply fuse/breaker in your property.

If there was a peculiar issue on the individual cable connecting your property to their network for example they would fix it. As opposed to if you had an abnormal load or equipment that was causing the supply to fault, then that is your problem.

It would be very unusual for a customer connection to bring down the supply affecting other customers. That is why your connection is fused/limited with a 60 or 100 Amp fuse or breaker.

Don't forget the 80A fuses too

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

For this sort of application, could also consider using a DC powerbank (with pass-through charging) to mimic a traditional UPS. Effectively a battery, with a plug-pack input and selectable voltage DC output. For most stuff that uses a DC input it (like ONTs and routers) it should be more efficient than using a big AC/AC UPS also a lot smaller and totally silent.

Have one here that I'm going to setup with a ThinkCentre micro-PC that runs our VoIP server. This has selectable 5v/8.4v/9v/12v/16v/20v output on the DC side and is rated @ 185 Wh and a bag full of adapter cables to suit.

Straight 12V output and standard 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector would suit an Openreach ONT and most domestic routers.

Just a thought.

That looks interesting, did it come with the cables, or did you purchase them separately?

Pretty comprehensive…

Adapters and leads

In reply to a post by Pgre:

If you can work out the power draw on the items you want then you can work out how long a UPS will give you power for. Some of the 850VA ones will give you around 170 mins with a 20W draw.

I'm not so sure about that. I have had three UPS over the years and have never found one that will run my mail server, modem and router for more than 15 minutes. That's only 40W.

From what I've read over the years the cheaper UPS are just terribly inefficient in creating AC and in conjunction with modern switched-mode power supplies won't run for long at all. They'll get you past a brief glitch but nothing longer than that.

Edited by Andrue (Sat 27-Nov-21 16:27:10)

Another *really* simple and elegant option, I can across recently. This one could provide around an hour of backup: just a regular 12V plug pack with a built-in 18650 battery.

https://1va.co.uk/ipower-12vdc-ups-system-p-29.html

UK based company too, rather than chancing it on Alibaba etc. m

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

This one could provide around an hour of backup

Interesting, although they don't say what the capacity is. According to the spec sheet, there are two battery options: [email protected] or [email protected] (the latter is the -H version).

At 100% conversion efficiency, those equate to 57 mins / 77 mins respectively at 10W; or 38 mins / 51 mins at 15W.

There is a PDF on the Documentation tab on that page, with more details on runtime etc

It gives:

12W
40mins - lower capacity model
50mins - higher capacity model

Yes I read all that. The page where you click to buy only has a single device at a single price, and it doesn't say what capacity you will get - although they give a model number which doesn't end with -H so it's probably the low capacity one.

I’ve asked them the question. Will see what they say.

For relatively low-power DC supplied kit like domestic routers, ONT and the like, I think a simple solution like this or a charge-through power-bank style of unit is a very attractive solution; reasonably low cost, noiseless, compact and good efficiency as there’s no need to go from AC->DC->AC->DC as there is with a traditional AC type UPS.

Just had this reply from them by email:

“The model we have on our webstore is the standard model (IP-2100-12G) at this time. We are yet to receive delivery of the higher capacity units. Once received they will be priced accordingly and available through the store.”

Another recently released UPS is this small Eaton model with selectable output voltage

https://www.comms-express.com/products/eaton-3sm36b-...

That one looks really good jpm! 👍

Yes, that is neat. Dual 2200 mAh batteries, hence longer runtime.

With a "smart" UPS you can also poll it for line status, and send out an E-mail if the power has gone down. Does anyone know of a simple device that plugs into the mains and can be queried via USB or RS232? (Rather than an audible alarm)

I could kludge one up, but hopefully ought to be something cheap and off the shelf, just don’t know of it. I’m. Sure someone has come across something elegant.

One of those smart plugs with energy monitoring that you can flash MQTT firmware on would presumably do the job - when the current coming from the wall drops to zero then the power is out.

Or when it stops sending messages

Yeah I realised that after posting, that something simply not responding to ping could be a good indication that the power has failed.

I’m sure something neat could be kludged up with < £4 Pi Pico; taking a whiff of 12V output from plugpack etc. via some discretes to Pico’s A/D input. When mains fails via 12V, message out through USB. Chuck it in a food container 🤣

Indeed. I just wondered if anyone knew anything neat and off-the-shelf.

An ESP8266 connected to a USB wall plug that is being pinged every 30 seconds would be a fairly reliable way of doing it, however the device doing the pinging would obviously have to be on a UPS. However most UPS manufacturers have the capability to report that power is lost, connect a raspberry Pi to the UPS and it will notify you.

I know, I currently use such a device: an APC Back-UPS PRO BR550GI. I monitor it through its USB connection with apcupsd. The device doing the monitoring is an Intel NUC DN2820, which is powered from the UPS (and could also be DC powered).

When it comes time to replace the UPS, I like the idea of these mini 12V DC-to-DC units. However none of them I've found has any power status monitoring, and if I have to cobble something together that would be a downside.