Confused on FTTP availability

Hey everyone. So recently i was comparing broadband deals and i noticed it was saying that we could get FTTP.

I live in a smallish town where most areas cables are underground but ours are on telegraph poles. We are quite far from the cabinet so on FTTC we get around 40 mb down max and 6 mb up.

I had checked ages ago and it said FTTP was planned for around 2025. So while checking these deals i noticed on SKY and TALKTALK it said we could get FTTP and speeds of up to 500mb. I thought surely this is an error so i checked the openreach website and that said we can. I check BT's website and it says we cant ...

So i signed up for that newsletter on openreach and that letter said we dont have FTTP yet, i email them and they say we do and can order it now ... im so confused lol

BT doesnt even show us FTTC now so i didnt want to risk trying to order FTTP and then we lose our spot on a full FTTC cabinet or something like that

I decided to check the bt dsl checker and it says this? https://ibb.co/Mk0QTtS

A few months back i did notice them putting this big new black box on the telegraph pole right near me but thats all iv seen. Anyone have any ideas with this?

You should be able to place an order.

There may be some further work to do - hence the comment in the wholesale checker against WBC FTTP - so possibly not an immediate connection (at least using a BT Wholesale backed connection) but certainly not 2025! TalkTalk and Sky use their own backhaul provision at the serving handover exchange, so that is more than likely why it shows available to order from them and not via BT wholesale backed ISP’s.

The big black box on the pole is more than likely the CBT (connectorised block terminal) from which the drop-wire connection to your premises will come from.

It could be that it has become available so recently that all the suppliers checkers haven't yet updated with the new information. You could well find waiting a short while would allow them all to get updated and be in line with the install.

In reply to a post by sunzz31:

BT doesnt even show us FTTC now so i didnt want to risk trying to order FTTP and then we lose our spot on a full FTTC cabinet or something like that

You can order FTTP completely separately from FTTC, so you have both services side by side - and the FTTP can come from a different supplier than your FTTC.

The question then is what you want to do about your voice service and phone number, if you use them.

The ideal option (IMO) once FTTP is working, is to port your voice phone number to a VOIP provider. When this happens, it will automatically cease the underlying FTTC and PSTN; and your phone number will be forever yours, and future FTTP migrations won't touch voice. You can also use whatever router you want on your FTTP line, and it gives you a wider choice of FTTP providers, e.g. Talktalk who don't do voice.

Make sure you're close to end of contract on your FTTC though, or you'll be hit with a hefty early termination charge.

The alternative is to migrate from FTTC to FTTP in one go, which will migrate your voice number from FTTC on the same day. You are currently limited to BT, Sky and Zen who can do this. You'll almost certainly be forced to use the router they provide, as that's where your phone will plug in.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8620-a-walk-in-a...

You also need to think where in your property the ONT box (Bit like a Modem) is going as it needs a 240v mains supply so near a twin 13A socket (one for ONT and the other for your router)

If the network is recently built and you'd consider a supplier other than BT, check TalkTalk, Sky, Zen and Vodafone. All have beaten BT (wholesale and retail) to market at my address by five months and counting.

If anyone with BT contacts is reading, I'd be interested to know what the delay is. I'm well served by Community Fibre, and the backup 80/20 won't be out of contract until mid-2022 - but there must be something peculiar going on for BTw not to be on sale yet.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

You should be able to place an order.

There may be some further work to do - hence the comment in the wholesale checker against WBC FTTP - so possibly not an immediate connection (at least using a BT Wholesale backed connection) but certainly not 2025! TalkTalk and Sky use their own backhaul provision at the serving handover exchange, so that is more than likely why it shows available to order from them and not via BT wholesale backed ISP’s.

The big black box on the pole is more than likely the CBT (connectorised block terminal) from which the drop-wire connection to your premises will come from.

I think youre right about the CBT block, as i had a google and it looks like that. Would it take longer if no one orders FTTP?

In reply to a post by ft247:

If the network is recently built and you'd consider a supplier other than BT, check TalkTalk, Sky, Zen and Vodafone. All have beaten BT (wholesale and retail) to market at my address by five months and counting.

If anyone with BT contacts is reading, I'd be interested to know what the delay is. I'm well served by Community Fibre, and the backup 80/20 won't be out of contract until mid-2022 - but there must be something peculiar going on for BTw not to be on sale yet.

Yeah i checked quite a few and it seems sky, talk talk and zen offer it, BT and our current provider plusnet doesnt. I assumed BT would be the first company to offer it to be honest

sunzz31

The last line on the checker results explains the difference.

"FTTP is in planned status. An order may be placed which will be processed when the network is ready."

BT will not take an order at that status but others will. None of them will progress until the network is compete but you can place an order in advance of this. This may mean you are the first on the equipment which may mean that you will hit any failures. I would suggest that you do not cancel any FTTC service until the FTTP has been working for a couple of weeks if this Broadband is critical for you.

Would it take longer if no one orders FTTP?

Not really. The ‘catchment area’ for FTTP locally is thousands of properties served.

Whether it’s just you connected in your street, is I’d argue not relevant in the slightest. The ISPs that want to offer service, will make a judgement call on that before anyone places an order. Seeing as Sky and TalkTalk allow you to order then they’ve already made the call.

BTW used to typically be the first off the bat when the infrastructure was ready, but now increasingly, as noted, they’re beaten to the punch by the other guys. If you really want to use a BTW backed ISP, then you could try placing an order with them.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

sunzz31

The last line on the checker results explains the difference.

"FTTP is in planned status. An order may be placed which will be processed when the network is ready."

BT will not take an order at that status but others will. None of them will progress until the network is compete but you can place an order in advance of this. This may mean you are the first on the equipment which may mean that you will hit any failures. I would suggest that you do not cancel any FTTC service until the FTTP has been working for a couple of weeks if this Broadband is critical for you.

Hey kit thanks for your reply. Found out my current contract ends Feb 2022, so hopefully something will progress while i wait for our contract to run out I was planning to hopefully switch to FTTP and switch our phone number over too if possible, i wonder how long it stays in this stage for

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Would it take longer if no one orders FTTP?

Not really. The ‘catchment area’ for FTTP locally is thousands of properties served.

Whether it’s just you connected in your street, is I’d argue not relevant in the slightest. The ISPs that want to offer service, will make a judgement call on that before anyone places an order. Seeing as Sky and TalkTalk allow you to order then they’ve already made the call.

BTW used to typically be the first off the bat when the infrastructure was ready, but now increasingly, as noted, they’re beaten to the punch by the other guys. If you really want to use a BTW backed ISP, then you could try placing an order with them.

I dont think its possible, they dont even seem to offer fibre to me right now (i already have fibre) , not sure if thats because the cabinet is full or something? but all the other ISPs still show FTTC, just not BT

sunzz31

How long is a piece of string? I would expect only a couple of weeks mainly due to Christmas / New Year But it depends on what the issue is waiting to be completed. The checker results seem to indicate that the Network is ready so most likely a new Head end commissioning issue..

We have seen instances where it is the exchange equipment that fails the final checks when everything else is ready. This means a wait for a card to be replaced in the Head end and that depends on the spares holding and the newest supplier (Nokia) doesn't seem to have as good a spares stock.

The ONT can also be plugged into an extension lead, like ours is.

Not necessarily powering related, but the router could also be some distance from the ONT…100 metres on Cat5e/6.

Some folks have even reverse powered their Openreach ONT using a local PoE splitter running from their PoE enabled switch and route the WAN traffic over a VLAN. Clever.

That's quite clever! I'm just trying to say that for people who are about to order FTTP/have a booked FTTP installation, then don't worry if you don't have an actual plug socket free, as the OR engineer who installed our ONT was more than happy to plug it into an extension cable, which is good because otherwise we would've been screwed.

Edited by Grimers (Fri 17-Dec-21 13:37:08)

I'm sure they were very happy to plug into the extension socket, because it saved them the job of running the fibre to a better location for the ONT with a real power socket beside it (which they should have done).

Why should they have done that? It works perfectly fine! Extension sockets are there for a reason, to easily provide power to more devices without having to install one or more power sockets.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

This means a wait for a card to be replaced in the Head end and that depends on the spares holding and the newest supplier (Nokia) doesn't seem to have as good a spares stock.

Have Openreach started using any Adtran OLTs or ONTs yet?

In reply to a post by dect:

Have Openreach started using any Adtran OLTs or ONTs yet?

We are yet to come across any in the field, across any part of the UK. All newly supplied areas appear to be Nokia currently.

In reply to a post by Grimers:

Why should they have done that? It works perfectly fine!

They should have done that because it's what they're instructed to do. Why? I expect because trailing extension sockets are a trip hazard, and an extra point of failure.

My router, ONT and extension socket is behind the TV - doesn't trail anywhere.

The ONT does happen to be in a wall socket but only because there are 4 wall sockets in the location - if we had the usual 2 that I have had in previous house then having the ONT and router plugged into the wall sockets would have resulted in no sockets free for running anything else.

The fact it is an extension lead does not automatically mean it will be a trip hazard. And as far as an extra point of failure is concerned if the extension socket breaks then the person would have to replace it - and likelihood is they will have other things running off the extension as well (yes, there is also the risk of overloading but the majority of things like TVs, routers, etc are pretty low amperage these days).

Do you know what areas are running Adtran headend/OLT’s?

Other than the initial ‘trial’ exchange in Towcester, haven’t heard of many more…but there must be several by now, given that Huawei is all but verboten?

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by dect:

Have Openreach started using any Adtran OLTs or ONTs yet?

We are yet to come across any in the field, across any part of the UK. All newly supplied areas appear to be Nokia currently.

Good to know, many thanks

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Do you know what areas are running Adtran headend/OLT’s?

Other than the initial ‘trial’ exchange in Towcester, haven’t heard of many more…but there must be several by now, given that Huawei is all but verboten?

Nope, I have requested 2-3 times from our BTO and BTW account managers for a general idea of where we should be expecting them, but they also seem to be getting the silence from the upward food chain of information.

Nokia ONTs seem to be making up most new builds, but we are still coming across Huawei for new build/final testing areas, so not not sure they have 100% cut ties.

One thing we are seeing though. If Huawei ONT power supplies fail (becoming more common), the power supply is getting replaced with a Nokia one.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

One thing we are seeing though. If Huawei ONT power supplies fail (becoming more common), the power supply is getting replaced with a Nokia one.

According to an Openreach staff member on here it's meant to be Nokia ONTs by default now, even on Huawei OLTs.

I've certainly seen a few examples of Nokia ONTs being used on Huawei OLTs (1 or 2 examples of that on this forum) but there's definitely still some Huawei ONTs being installed.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

One thing we are seeing though. If Huawei ONT power supplies fail (becoming more common), the power supply is getting replaced with a Nokia one.

Because obviously, the Chinese intelligence agencies are exfiltrating data via the 12V DC power socket

Well, our extension socket is in a cable tray, so it's not exactly a trip hazard...

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Because obviously, the Chinese intelligence agencies are exfiltrating data via the 12V DC power socket

Beware of Chinese POE adaptors then I guess....

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Beware of Chinese POE adaptors then I guess....

Cheers!

I am interested to know if anyone has managed to login to a Huawei ONT, not sure if the username or password has been changed for the ones Openreach install, if not the username is root and password is admin.

In reply to a post by dect:

I am interested to know if anyone has managed to login to a Huawei ONT, not sure if the username or password has been changed for the ones Openreach install, if not the username is root and password is admin.

On the ONT's I've tried there is no web interface, no SSH and no telnet to login in to.
Openreach have customized firmware installed on their CPE.

Only the Openreach Huawei HG612 VDSL2 modems were accessible and that was via a firmware recovery page Huawei left.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

On the ONT's I've tried there is no web interface, no SSH and no telnet to login in to.
Openreach have customized firmware installed on their CPE.

Only the Openreach Huawei HG612 VDSL2 modems were accessible and that was via a firmware recovery page Huawei left.

OK thanks j0hn83, it must only be available on the Huawei directly sold version.

In reply to a post by dect:

I am interested to know if anyone has managed to login to a Huawei ONT, not sure if the username or password has been changed for the ones Openreach install, if not the username is root and password is admin.

The more interesting exercise will be replacement of the ONT with (say) an SFP+ based ONT, which could sit in a customer switch. This appeals to me from a neatness POV, and will appeal to others due to the ability to keep a pre-configured spare on standby.

There is much talk online from other countries of this being done successfully, and not much talk of it causing havoc on the PONs and ISPs getting angry. After all SFP+ ONTs are available from the same suppliers Openreach use, so if done properly there should be no difference to them. Hopefully a load of muppets don't screw it up and cause the standards/authentication methods to be tightened.

It can (currently) be done on Openreach without issue.

Edit: because

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 20-Dec-21 17:37:21)

That's a shame, but in a way I guess it stops the whole thing about worrying about error stats, etc. Though, apparently they're not much use on FTTP, anyway.