FTTP is next door - how do I persuade Openreach to connect m

Openreach have put fibre in to our area and FTTP is available at the house and postcode next door. However we have a different postcode and it shows as not available!
I watched openreach install the box at the top of the pole outside our home. How do I persuade them to connect me (my copper already run to that pole!)

If you are served by the same pole then it really should be available to you also.
It sounds like a database error.

What does the BT Wholesale broadband checker show available for your address?

You could fill out the Openreach availability form and select the option "My neighbour can get fibre but I can't"
https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai...

I second what John has said.

My neighbours and I are served from the same CBT/pole, but our addresses have different postcodes. FTTP is available to both.

Many thanks. The BT page says not FTTP not available for our postcode (even though it's at the top of the pole 15m away!) It shows available for the postcode next door.

I have completed the Openreach form (thanks for the link) and will await their reply and I'll let you know.

Interstingly I have just faced the same problem at two properties in Wales and, after 6 months, Openreach conceded that their database had an error and that I could have FTTP to the property next door (same post code). My frustration is that it took 6 months inspite of the fact that they had two different engineers out who each climbed the pole and said there was a connection available!!

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

Many thanks. The BT page says not FTTP not available for our postcode (even though it's at the top of the pole 15m away!) It shows available for the postcode next door.

Just to be clear: you should not be checking at the *postcode* level, you should be checking at the *address* level. Go to https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/, select the "Address checker", enter your postcode, and then choose your specific address from the list given. Also, if you have an Openreach-based copper line, do a check using your phone number.

I just wanted to make sure that you're not looking on some other site that only works at the postcode level. Even the BT checker used to have a postcode-level check option, but i think that's gone now.

Thanks. On the BT site there is a line that says "FTTP on demand" and under the Availability Date it says "Available", but under the FTTP Install Process it is blank?

At the bottom of the table it says: "The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

WLR is currently available at the exchange

SOADSL is restricted at the exchange

FTTP is not available."

I haven't tried recently requesting via BT, but I suspect they will tell me it isn't yet available??

Edited by Daveperc (Thu 10-Feb-22 10:57:33)

Fill in the Openreach form as noted above by John. They should respond hopefully in a few days to clarify.

Thanks, yes have done - but as noted above I have just been through 6 months with Openreach having wrong info in their database!

Just put the neighbouring house into the BT Checker and it shows FTTP as available (with better speeds than for my property), a "1 stage" Install process, and the notes belwo the table say " Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

What's an ONT, and how would one order one??

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

What's an ONT, and how would one order one??

ONT = Optical Network Termination, the powered box that sits on your inside wall and the fibre connects to, and to which your router's WAN port connects.

When the ISP orders your service, Openreach will come and install the ONT as part of this, as well as pulling the fibre from the CBT to your house and drilling a hole in your wall to get the fibre inside.

IIRC FTTPoD always shows as 500Mbps(or similar) WBC FTTP usually shows as 1000Mbps.
From a non technical, i.e. service point of view, the ONT is equivalent to your master socket. You order FTTP and Openreach come and install a line from pole to your house terminating at an ONT.

In reply to a post by burble:

IIRC FTTPoD always shows as 500Mbps(or similar) WBC FTTP usually shows as 1000Mbps.

That's not true these days.

FTTPoD used to show as 330/30. As of a few year ago, it changed to 1000/220.

*However* they didn't go across their whole estate updating existing records, so it only gets updated when the database record gets "touched" for some other reason.

For example: my whole street used to show FTTPoD 330/30. Once I actually got FTTPoD installed, myself and a couple of neighbours show native FTTP 1000/220. However the rest of the street was also updated to show FTTPoD 1000/220.

Many thanks guys - I'm learning loads here!! (Edit - this crossed with the post on speeds so I now understand that the speed is just an updating issue)

So why would the database show 'FTTP on demand' for my address, and 'WBC FTTP' for the house next door?

Edited by Daveperc (Thu 10-Feb-22 12:06:41)

"FTTP on Demand" really just means "FTTP not available".

FTTP on Demand is an expensive bespoke service where you can pay thousands of pounds to have the FTTP network rolled out to your location, "on demand" (i.e. before Openreach decide to do it themselves).

However, if there's a CBT on the top of the pole serves your property, then it's simply a database error if it says that FTTP is not available. Those errors can be corrected - hence the Openreach contact form.

Great - thanks for all your help. I'll post an update when Openreach respond to the form.

Is this the infamous "Form Y" that BT used to refer to regularly when I was pursuing my FTTP connection down in Wales??

You state you have a phone line that runs to the pole with the CBT, have you tried the Phone Number version of the BT Wholesale Checker? See if it gives the same result.

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

Great - thanks for all your help. I'll post an update when Openreach respond to the form.

Is this the infamous "Form Y" that BT used to refer to regularly when I was pursuing my FTTP connection down in Wales??

Hopefully you get a favourable response. If not, the next step would be an email to the executive complaints handling team. But one step at a time.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

You state you have a phone line that runs to the pole with the CBT, have you tried the Phone Number version of the BT Wholesale Checker? See if it gives the same result.

Yes I did - and the system said it didn't recognise our number, which given we have lived here 36 years with the same number seemed a little odd! But as I have said above, I don't think the Openreach/BT database is very reliable!

That's the usual response from the checker if you have a non BT line, such as TalkTalk or Sky.

It's happen to me as BTw checker say G.fast available a year ago try to order it via ISP from Pulse8 and Openreach rejected it for no reason. Pulse8 use talktalk business. I try again with different isp this time with UnchainedISP that also using talktalk business and Openreach have accepted the order which I am using G.fast at the moment.

Very strange.

Edited by adslmax (Thu 10-Feb-22 20:54:25)

Where this happens is often because the individual address isn't mapped to the fibre equipment , for whatever reason

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

That's the usual response from the checker if you have a non BT line, such as TalkTalk or Sky.

I've been with BT on that line for 36 years!!

In that case, it's another hint that the database is wrong for your property.

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

I've been with BT on that line for 36 years!!

If you're with BT Retail and the DSL checker does not show anything for your telephone number then it does point to a database error if nothing else.

Do you have Digial Voice over your broadband?

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Do you have Digial Voice over your broadband?

Yes - on fibre to cabinet

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

That's the usual response from the checker if you have a non BT line, such as TalkTalk or Sky.

I've been with BT on that line for 36 years!!

Is your current ISP with BT? If so and the checker still doesn't recognize the number then it is a database error.

But if you switched ISP to TalkTalk, Sky even if you have had the same BT line number for 36 years then the checker will fail to detect the number until you migrate away from TalkTalk/Sky once again.

Also the BT Wholesale checker doesn't always give a reliable indicator of any FTTP plans.

For example you will see most addresses and postcodes with no FTTP will show,
"The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme"

Yet, the Openreach website checker will show this.

Did you know?
"We're upgrading millions of homes and businesses to Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband
We're starting to build our ultra-fast, ultra-reliable Full Fibre broadband in your area.
Provide your details below, and we'll keep you up to date with how we're getting on and what this could mean for you and your property."

Several postcodes here in my area have now started showing plans for FTTP. Yet, my postcode for my building will not show plan for FTTP for Openreach. I know that seems weird as management team is identical for those planned and I am located right next to them!

You can also check https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when...

Enter your postcode and see what colour it is pointed on in the map. If it is outside the Yellow, Purple and Red markings then it means it's not part of Fibre First December 2026 deadline.

Openreach FTTP in this case will not come by that time and only Altnet providers will be the only hope.

That's it then, the BTw checker doesn't know what to do with DV numbers.

Find your UPRN from https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/search and put that into the BTw checker and see what comes back.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

That's the usual response from the checker if you have a non BT line, such as TalkTalk or Sky.

I've been with BT on that line for 36 years!!

Is your current ISP with BT? If so and the checker still doesn't recognize the number then it is a database error.

It isn't a database error.
Digital Voice numbers tend not to work on the Wholesale checker.

Daveperc

I am pretty sure that the OR checker will not recognise DV numbers. ( This puts BT on the same footing as other suppliers ) .

You will have to use the UPRN or address checkers Did you quote your existing DP number when filling in the OR form? This would speed up their investigations.

Post deleted by kjwkjw

Edited by kjwkjw (Fri 11-Feb-22 20:53:56)

Thanks for your various responses. I have now had a useless reply from Openreach!!
They say "Thanks for your recent enquiry via the Openreach website about getting faster broadband.

I’ve looked into your enquiry and can see that we don't have any plans to upgrade your area with Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) right now, but we can keep you up to date when things change. To receive any future updates please go to our fibre checker, input your postcode, chose your address from the drop down, then scroll past the availability information and complete the Gigabit Fibre form and we’ll update you once plans change.

If you want to bring fibre to your property sooner, you could look at the option of Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) on Demand.


I have replied: "Thank you for picking up the case – I appreciate your reply.

However it doesn’t really answer my question at all. Openreach have already installed the infrastructure – a connection point (CBT) on top of the pole outside our home, WBC FTTP connections to the adjacent properties (eg xxxxxxxxx), and Trooli have even installed fibre into the existing ducts along xxxxxxx in readiness to connect! There is an existing (old) copper line overhead from my home to the pole in question.

I am well aware of what your database says about there being no plans!

I want to request a connection (overhead) by BT (my existing ISP, from my home to the connection point – Please can you update the data base so that this can this be accommodated – physically everything is there apart from a short length of fibre and the ONT!

Many thanks"

An so the sage continues.......

Edited by Daveperc (Mon 14-Feb-22 09:18:30)

Your best bet is to now email the CEO, you are in a loop that only the CEO team can break.

[removed by tbb]
He won't get the email, it will be passed on to the interventions team to deal with.

Edited by seb (Mon 02-Feb-26 21:39:15)

In reply to a post by kommando:

Your best bet is to now email the CEO, you are in a loop that only the CEO team can break.

[removed by tbb]
He won't get the email, it will be passed on to the interventions team to deal with.

Thanks - email sent

Edited by seb (Mon 02-Feb-26 21:39:22)

In reply to a post by kommando:

He won't get the email, it will be passed on to the interventions team to deal with.

That's his email address, which he checks very frequently.
While he has a team that goes through his emails for customer complaints, Clive personally replies to lots of the complaints he receives.

There are lots of examples on here that the man himself has answered users emails, including my own case.
He's a thoroughly pleasant chap to deal with.

Hi all - well it did get passed on to the interventions team who were very friendly, but ultimately not very helpful! Here's what they said: "Concerning your premise and any plans we have for future roll-outs:
I’ve discussed this with the project manager of your area and unfortunately there are no current or future plans to bring FTTP to your property at this time. This doesn’t mean there won’t be any though, our plans are changing and covering more areas all the time. So my advice would be to stay close to our website for any updates. The link is here https://www.openreach.com/

Although there are no immediate plans at this moment to provide FTTP, your area does show as covered under our 'Fibre First' build plans where we're building 25 million homes by December 2026. You can find more info by clicking here: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when... It doesn't show everywhere that we'll build to reach 25 million premises by December 2026 - we'll be adding more locations over time."

Reading between the lines from what he actually said verbally on the call I think the unit on top of the pole doesn't have capacity for all the houses in our little cul-de-sac (12 dwellings) and that they wouldn't connect me because it would set a precedent for our postcode (street) which would require more work.

He didn't seem phased by the fact that Trooli are showing us as having FTTP available and have already installed fibre into the ducts, and will presumably shortly connect at the pole to the (?an upgraded) unit.

So I guess my wait goes on... sigh

Oh dear. Pretty poor planning on their part then, not to provide sufficient capacity onto the pole in the first place. But what's done is done.

How many properties connect to the pole? Can you see how many ports are on the fibre CBT on the pole?

As mentioned it's poor planning not to add sufficient capacity for everyone on the pole.
If the serving Splitter is full it could be a significant job to add more capacity.

So time for an FTTP waiting list to join the FTTC waiting list ?

Not a good look at all.

Hypothetical question.

What would happen if a neighbour ordered FTTP in your name, and when the OR engineer turned up for install and asked where the ONT should be located, the neighbour says there must be mix up with address as it has your name on it, and show them the required ONT position on your property?

In reply to a post by craigski:

Hypothetical question.

What would happen if a neighbour ordered FTTP in your name, and when the OR engineer turned up for install and asked where the ONT should be located, the neighbour says there must be mix up with address as it has your name on it, and show them the required ONT position on your property?

The problem is that no neighbour (or myself) can order FTTP until OR's database shows it as available - I've been through 6 months of this in my welsh property but there I had the advantage of owning the next door property that already had FTTP so BT (my ISP) believed me and pressured OR to eventually sort out the issue. Interestingly BT said "We've got lots of cases like this!"

What I find more interesting is how OFCOM view OR's position. They are apparently willing to make their network accessible to my home through Trooli in a few weeks, but not through any other ISP (except on FoD basis). How does that sit in their "open access" framework??

Apologies, I mis understood the logistics of your neighbours property:

"Openreach have put fibre in to our area and FTTP is available at the house and postcode next door. However we have a different postcode and it shows as not available!"

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

In reply to a post by craigski:

Hypothetical question.

What would happen if a neighbour ordered FTTP in your name, and when the OR engineer turned up for install and asked where the ONT should be located, the neighbour says there must be mix up with address as it has your name on it, and show them the required ONT position on your property?

The problem is that no neighbour (or myself) can order FTTP until OR's database shows it as available - I've been through 6 months of this in my welsh property but there I had the advantage of owning the next door property that already had FTTP so BT (my ISP) believed me and pressured OR to eventually sort out the issue. Interestingly BT said "We've got lots of cases like this!"

What I find more interesting is how OFCOM view OR's position. They are apparently willing to make their network accessible to my home through Trooli in a few weeks, but not through any other ISP (except on FoD basis). How does that sit in their "open access" framework??

Have you done as John suggests and counted the ports compared to the number of properties?

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

What I find more interesting is how OFCOM view OR's position. They are apparently willing to make their network accessible to my home through Trooli in a few weeks, but not through any other ISP (except on FoD basis). How does that sit in their "open access" framework??

Openreach aren't making their network accessible to Trooli.

OFCOM have forced Openreach to make their physical infrastructure available to other networks.
It's called PIA (physical infrastructure access).

Trooli are paying Openreach to use PIA so that they can share their ducts and poles.
They don't share any fibre or any of the fibre equipment owned by Openreach.

Openreach have no obligation to roll out FTTP in any location that another provider is sharing their infrastructure.
If they did that would kill competition, don't you think?

OFCOM want to encourage multiple networks. They insisted on PIA existing.
Sorry but complaining to OFCOM that Trooli are bringing FTTP to you is a waste of time.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 16-Feb-22 11:45:31)

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

What I find more interesting is how OFCOM view OR's position. They are apparently willing to make their network accessible to my home through Trooli in a few weeks, but not through any other ISP (except on FoD basis). How does that sit in their "open access" framework??

Are you saying Openreach should provide FTTP everywhere that PIA is used by other Altnets? I do think this is drifting off the fact that you have a CBT by Openreach at the top of your poles and can't order.

In reply to a post by craigski:

Apologies, I mis understood the logistics of your neighbours property:

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

Openreach have put fibre in to our area and FTTP is available at the house and postcode next door. However we have a different postcode and it shows as not available!

I am confused as well as above by OP doesn't tally with below

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

The problem is that no neighbour (or myself) can order FTTP until OR's database shows it as available

Edited by deleted (Wed 16-Feb-22 12:05:08)

Dasveperc

Can you give us the two postcodes so that others can check your position as there is something funny about the situation.

Thanks

Hi all,
Sorry - I realise my use of the word "Neighbour" in two different contexts has caused confusion.
We live on the boundary of two different post codes. One covers the road that passes the end of our culdesac, the other covers the 12 houses in our culdesac.
The pole with the fibre on is at the end of our culdesac where it joins the road.
Neighbours on the road have FTTP access (and indeed several have connections) through Openreach. Neighbours in our culdesac can only get FoD or wait for Trooli to complete their connections (the fibre is already in the ducts along the culdesac.
Sorry not prepared to put my postcode on a public forum.
Dave

Have trooli used Openreach ducts or dug their own?

You might well find once Trooli complete their rollout that Openreach will be incentivised to come back and in-fill FTTP to your culdesac.

Daveperc

Thank you for the explanation, we now do not need your postcodes.

We can now understand why you cannot get FTTP but your 'neighbour' can.

I assume from this that you are served by the Cul-de-sac ducts and the road is served by the pole.

.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

I assume from this that you are served by the Cul-de-sac ducts and the road is served by the pole.

OP has stated he is served by the pole with the CBT on it, I suspect the pole serves some properties in the road and the cul-de-sac.

Edit: I think OP has also stated that because there is not enough CBT ports on pole to serve the road and the entire cul-de-sac Openreach have limited the CBT ports to just the road.

It does seem strange Openreach didn't provision enough CBT ports for all properties connected to that pole but there may be a reason (even if its a [censored] one) that we all simply don't know. We have seen it before where a cul-de-sac of a couple of dozen properties and Openreach have only enabled half of them.

Edited by deleted (Thu 17-Feb-22 23:11:21)

If next door got FTTP then why don't you order Cerberus FTTPoD quote as it will be lots cheaper because next door got FTTP.

"Lots cheaper" in this context means £250+£2,620+VAT for survey and installation, and £95+VAT per month rental for the first year (at 450/70 speed) - after which you can switch to a regular FTTP provider.

Total cost inc VAT: £4,812 for the first year.

Whilst lower than regular FTTPoD costs, this is not an insubstantial sum of money.

That would be the a best case scenario, another £1,230 with VAT if they needed to build another splitter as well as adding a CBT.

Dect

Yes but he also talks about ducting in the cul-de-sac so not really clear which it is.( That is why I was suggesting he quoted the DP he is served by in his comms with OR, picture also helps)

We also do not know how big the cul-de-sac is, could be dozens of properties or just a couple.

If his is the only house in the cul-de-sac served by the pole I would have expected OR to provide FTTP from the pole without any issues as a future Duct based FTTP rollout would not cover him. From the OR HL team response it sounds like they think he is UG served and would be covered by a future duct based FTTP rollout. Making the answer a clear no at this point.

Hi kitcat

Sorry I missed the point about properties in the cul-de-sac being ducted, I will have to re-read the OP's posts.

if the cbts are pole mounted go onto the main road and count the cbt connectors, on both sides, as you may find there is enough to cover your culdesac.

My area has done that with one culdesac side road, that it has enough cbt ports to cover those premises. I didn't notice it for quite awhile.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Dect

Yes but he also talks about ducting in the cul-de-sac so not really clear which it is.( That is why I was suggesting he quoted the DP he is served by in his comms with OR, picture also helps)

We also do not know how big the cul-de-sac is, could be dozens of properties or just a couple.

If his is the only house in the cul-de-sac served by the pole I would have expected OR to provide FTTP from the pole without any issues as a future Duct based FTTP rollout would not cover him. From the OR HL team response it sounds like they think he is UG served and would be covered by a future duct based FTTP rollout. Making the answer a clear no at this point.

Thanks for all the various options etc - basically I/we are now in waiting mode to see when Trooli actually make a connection (their site has said "10 weeks" for the past month!), and whether Openreach add us to their roll-out - most of us have "registered interest".

In response to various queries above:
- road is served by poles; culdesac by ducts installed by BT/Openreach 35 years ago;
- ducts have recently had Trooli installed fibre added;
- there are 12 houses in the culdesac;
- we are served by ug duct (main BT landline) and pole (old fax line, now disconnected at exchange but cable physically present from pole to house) as we are on the corner.

Been a really helpful thread - thanks

Edited by Daveperc (Mon 21-Feb-22 12:10:11)

In reply to a post by Daveperc:

we are served by ug duct (main BT landline)

To me this now makes everything clear why Openreach won't be connecting your property to the the FTTP CBT ports on the pole.

All the best Dave.

Daveperc

Thanks for the added detail.

So OR records show your service routeing as UG and FTTP is not available. The old pair from the pole will no longer show so will not have been considered when providing FTTP capacity.

Hopefully Trooli will complete soon

One last roll of the dice would be to take a picture of the cable from house to pole showing CBT and asking again why your house cannot get FTTP.

In reply to a post by kommando:

One last roll of the dice would be to take a picture of the cable from house to pole showing CBT and asking again why your house cannot get FTTP.

He's rolled all his dice.

He's been through the CEO team and been through the local areas project manager.
They will be able to see that he has active service via an undergroun feed, that his registered DP is underground and the rest of his street is underground.

They already told him if we do it for you it sets a precedent and everyone else will want the same.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

He's rolled all his dice.

He's been through the CEO team and been through the local areas project manager.
They will be able to see that he has active service via an undergroun feed, that his registered DP is underground and the rest of his street is underground.

They already told him if we do it for you it sets a precedent and everyone else will want the same.

+1