130v and FTTP still working

Very low power, presume some lines are down, a lot of things don't work in the house, but ONT and TT router are, as proved by this post.

You could probably see 80v before it stops. The power supply is likely to be a 100-230v SMPS and that is likely to work inefficently from somewere over 80 through to 300.

As to why you only have 130v could be all manner of reasons but just be careful and unplug any expensive items to avoid potential during restoration.

In reply to a post by burble:

Very low power, presume some lines are down, a lot of things don't work in the house, but ONT and TT router are, as proved by this post.

I'll keep my fingers crossed the power is restore soon for you, we have had 3 power outages today but currently its up.

In reply to a post by dect:

I'll keep my fingers crossed the power is restore soon for you, we have had 3 power outages today but currently its up.

I regretted not going into the office today, they said work from home if possible, well they have a diesel generator and since i'm in IT our whole office is on a UPS so we don't get the 3 seconds downtime while everything switches over, I don't know if I can class what i have experienced as a power cut or if it's a surge, not really sure.

All my lights and equipment have been turning on and off every so often but so quick that not much goes off, like my sound system in my office the amp goes into protection mode and reboots. I decided to turn off and unplug as much equipment as possible and have turned my router off and am using the Virgin HUB 3 in router mode, as if that goes up in smoke it's not as bad as if its my hardware.

I definitely think I will be investing in a couple of UPS's after this one for downstairs where the main network gear and NAS is and my office for the backup NAS and PC and other gear.

Does anyone have any UPS suggestions.

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

I regretted not going into the office today

Being at home allowed you to unplug things that may get damaged by out-of-spec mains voltage - had you gone to the office your amplifier might not have been functioning on your return!

In reply to a post by MHC:

You could probably see 80v before it stops. The power supply is likely to be a 100-230v SMPS and that is likely to work inefficently from somewere over 80 through to 300.

As to why you only have 130v could be all manner of reasons but just be careful and unplug any expensive items to avoid potential during restoration.

A HV line fault, apart from ONT and router the only thing we have on is LED lamp, every else switched off. With a multifuel stove we are at least nice and warm, unlike our nabours who variously have oil or air source heating.

In reply to a post by ft247:

Being at home allowed you to unplug things that may get damaged by out-of-spec mains voltage - had you gone to the office your amplifier might not have been functioning on your return!

Yeah but, the amp was as I was at home, otherwise it's always off. I have a 300 Watt amp and a couple 100 watt speakers for teams calling and a bit of background music.

There was someone else onsite anyway today who knows the shutdown policy incase of power outages. (I get them often enough to train family members on what order to turn things off and what things take priority) (If its a total loss the first port of call is the fuse box to wack the fuses on off. Then go around turning every socket and light switch off, Then usually giving it 10 mins and testing to see if there's power on an isolated circuit that powers a lightbulb next to the fusebox.)

(That and a lot of electrical work has been done recently so it's important that proper shutdown procedures are followed)


I looked at these, what are your thoughts.
APC by Schneider Electric BACK-UPS ES - BE850G2-UK - Uninterruptible Power Supply 850VA (8 Outlets, Surge Protected, 2 USB Charging Ports)

The usual premium grade UPS is APC with CyberPower being a slightly cheaper alternative.

If you are powering smaller items that have their own transformer bricks then you should be fine with Stepped (or Approximated) Sine Wave models such as the APC BackUPS. If you are using computers that expect clean power then a Pure Sine Wave model is highly preferred such as the APC SmartUPS range.

Batteries typically last 3-5 years depending on how much work they have to do. In order to preserve any warranties the manufactures will insist on you using their own certified batteries but equivalent batteries are available and fairly easy to swap, especially on the higher end more professional models. Some of the cheaper Consumer UPS make it harder to get to the batteries.

Likely a loss of a phase on the 11 kV distribution system.

Whilst equipment with a switch-mode psu will likely happily keep working - it thinks its in the USA! Anything with a motor such as a fridge will be unhappy and may burn out.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

I regretted not going into the office today, they said work from home if possible, well they have a diesel generator and since i'm in IT our whole office is on a UPS so we don't get the 3 seconds downtime while everything switches over,

Went to a funeral today, spent the afternoon in the pub, as fewer than expected turned up (due to weather?) we where given a bag of food to take home, joked that we wouldn't have to cook 'tea', well that worked out well. Am sitting in front of my multifuel stove nice and warm, houses either side, one has oil ch, other has heat pump, so both will be cold.

have turned my router off and am using the Virgin HUB 3 in router mode, as if that goes up in smoke it's not as bad as if its my hardware.

I've now got 3 TTB routers, so a couple of spares. 😁

In reply to a post by burble:

I've now got 3 TTB routers, so a couple of spares. 😁

Take a look at my VMQ today compared to Monday I was downloading and my router handles it perfectly, then same again tuesday

Today's with the HUB 3 is just a disaster

I discovered the battery at the fibre cabinet lasts about 5 hours.

Ours lasts about 5 seconds

A few of them have been nicked.

How long have you been out?

We’ve been out since 13:45 on Friday. Estimated to be back on by 3pm Sunday.

Looking at UK Power Networks outage map, it’s a sea of red. Reckon we’ll be lucky to get it back by then.

17:00 til 10:00. Much shorter than usual. Big area out

We live in the middle of nowhere and have regular power cuts so was expecting it.

My 110v work generator runs the computer, tv, router, BT vision and mobile chargers.

My 240v genny does the kitchen excluding the main oven.

My van inverter does the boiler.

Edited by FibreBubble (Sat 19-Feb-22 11:18:34)

We have been at 130v for around 24hr, the estimate for restoration of supply is 21:30 to 22:30 tonight, but as it said between 21:30 to 22:30 last night, I guess that is a default figure. We have a choice of moving to another house, but I'm holding out as it's a good excuse for Fish & Chip or Chinese tonight.

Power back on (no fish and chips ☹️ ), after the HV fault was fixed they found a LV problem so power was completely cut for a couple of hours.

In reply to a post by burble:

Power back on (no fish and chips ☹️ ), after the HV fault was fixed they found a LV problem so power was completely cut for a couple of hours.

Welcome back

In reply to a post by burble:

Power back on (no fish and chips ☹️ )

Every silver lining has a cloud around it

I have one of those, about 70watts load (switch, 2x routers, and a SFF PC). It lasted around 30-40 minutes.

Yeah UPS is good for an orderly shutdown, or to keep you running in a short outage or while you get a generator etc hooked up. No good when the mains has been out for days….

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

How long have you been out?

We’ve been out since 13:45 on Friday. Estimated to be back on by 3pm Sunday.

Looking at UK Power Networks outage map, it’s a sea of red. Reckon we’ll be lucky to get it back by then.

Not unexpectedly, the power isn’t back. All the estimated restoration times for the outages reported nearest to us on the UKPN map have now reverted to “to be confirmed” from the previous 15:30-16:30 today. Not a good sign at all.

I’ve just listened to the news where they reckon it could be Tuesday before it’s restored. With the sea of red on the UKPN map, not much changed over the past few days, I reckon even that estimate could be wildly hopeful.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Not unexpectedly, the power isn’t back. All the estimated restoration times for the outages reported nearest to us on the UKPN map have now reverted to “to be confirmed” from the previous 15:30-16:30 today. Not a good sign at all.

I’ve just listened to the news where they reckon it could be Tuesday before it’s restored. With the sea of red on the UKPN map, not much changed over the past few days, I reckon even that estimate could be wildly hopeful.

My power surge and cuts caused the Anglian water plumping station to stop working, last night I got a call from next door going, there's sewage coming in via the toilet, he was right I looked and was like yeah its going up.

Not the first time admittedly its about the 5 time in 6 months.

Just logged a complaint as its not really acceptable for the team sorting the issue not to check downstream after they finished fixing the pumping station and leave it for 6 hours for another crew to come and deal with the aftermath. This has happened monthly for the last 6 months, and having to call and get a second team to check.

Power cuts in my area literally means no drains, no water (since its pumped) and obviously no electric.

Our Anglian Water pumping station had several employee houses on the same plot, some years back the pumping station became automatic and remotely monitored, the houses then becoming rented to general public. Some years back the pumps stopped and nobody knew until the water tower ran dry.
When the sewer pumps stop working, which at one time they did quite often, a row of houses would get their back gardens flooded!

In reply to a post by burble:

Our Anglian Water pumping station had several employee houses on the same plot, some years back the pumping station became automatic and remotely monitored, the houses then becoming rented to general public. Some years back the pumps stopped and nobody knew until the water tower ran dry.
When the sewer pumps stop working, which at one time they did quite often, a row of houses would get their back gardens flooded!

The thing done my road is, I'm at the end of the chain and i have 5 manholes in the back garden 2 in the front, when things go wrong, I know about it, its like we mobilise the street group chat and get them all to ring and log faults otherwise we are in trouble. One house often gets the sewage coming in the shower tray, that's how they know there's a problem.

The thing is our pumping station is monitored as the guy that turned up this evening to me showed me on his anglian water phone and said look, everything operational now, he said no status this morning.

He said they should send teams stright away to deal with the problem but they don't, I live at the bottom of a hill, the sewer treatment works are at the top of the hill.

My bigger concern is the fact that most the area's sewage comes via my street's drainage to the pumps we have 2. the rest goes via a different pipe Infront of my estate.

When i logged the complaint i said the advice of the engineer this morning, he said ask them to fit an alarm, generator, backup battery to prevent it tripping off while the generator kicks in.

Management is ringing me tomorrow to advise.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

How long have you been out?

We’ve been out since 13:45 on Friday. Estimated to be back on by 3pm Sunday.

Looking at UK Power Networks outage map, it’s a sea of red. Reckon we’ll be lucky to get it back by then.

Not unexpectedly, the power isn’t back. All the estimated restoration times for the outages reported nearest to us on the UKPN map have now reverted to “to be confirmed” from the previous 15:30-16:30 today. Not a good sign at all.

I’ve just listened to the news where they reckon it could be Tuesday before it’s restored. With the sea of red on the UKPN map, not much changed over the past few days, I reckon even that estimate could be wildly hopeful.

I clicked on what I thought was the correct red icon on the UKPN map. It said that power would be restored by about 11pm but it actually came on at 6.30pm. The icon is now green.

I am elsewhere where the power has stayed on so far but yesterday I opened the kitchen back door and some wind came in and blew out one of the Everest double glazed sitting room windows. We have a much bigger window in the sitting room which came loose last year so I secured it with some screws and pop rivets. Fortunately it has stayed in place.

Power thankfully was restored at 2pm. Let’s hope it lasts. 😬

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Power thankfully was restored at 2pm. Let’s hope it lasts. 😬

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of us

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of us

Is there an official topic yet for pointing out the stupidity of the current plans for BT Digital Voice (and similar shortsightedness) in a time of increasingly frequent wide area power outages ?

Back in December 2015, Storm Desmond took out a major electricity substation in Lancaster, promptly cutting off over 60,000 properties, with cascade effects over a much wider area. Normal electricity supplies did not resume for a week or so.

The consequences were later documented in a report from the Royal Academy of Engineering, Lancaster University, and others, accessible via e.g.the news release at
https://www.raeng.org.uk/news/news-releases/2016/may... (extract below).

Someone should post a copy of that, and the full report, to Ofcon.

Full report at e.g.

https://www.raeng.org.uk/news/news-releases/2016/may...

Extract from news release:

The loss of power quickly affected many other services that we all take for granted. Most mobile phone coverage and text messaging was lost within an hour; this meant that Lancaster University had no way of communicating with its 7,000 students about what to do. Internet, television, and DAB radio were all knocked out. Electronic tills and most ATM machines stopped working, which along with non-functioning freezers, meant that many shops could not do business. Gas-fired central heating did not work because control systems and pumps need electricity. Homes with all-electric cooking were unable to heat food. High-rise buildings lost power for their lifts and upper floors lost water supplies.

No traffic lights were working and garages could not sell fuel as pumps are driven by electricity. The railway line was working as it is powered from outside the affected area but the station was closed at 4pm for safety reasons as there was no platform lighting.

The local hospital, which has back-up diesel generators, was able to function as normal but vulnerable people in their homes and homeless people on the street were more seriously affected.

Some gaps in local emergency leadership emerged as the crisis unfolded: the Gold Command was communicating with the local emergency services but not with the general public; the only functioning supermarket had to close its doors to queues of customers because of Sunday trading laws that no-one apparently had the authority to overturn.

Extract from summary in full report:

Because electricity is always there, we have come to rely on it without question
and have allowed it to infiltrate all aspects of our lives. The gas central heating
in our houses relies on electrical controls and circulating pumps; our cordless
phones, computers, Wi-Fi routers and some door locks all need a mains supply.
And increasingly we have migrated the way we live from paper to electronic
systems – we pay for a coffee with a contactless card, read our bank statement
online, keep our address book in ‘the cloud’ and send emails rather than letters.
In December 2015, life for more than 100,000 people in Lancaster reverted to a
pre-electronics era. A flood at an electricity substation resulted in a blackout over
the entire city that lasted for more than 24 hours. Suddenly people realised that,
without electricity, there is no internet, no mobile phones, no contactless payment,
no lifts and no petrol pumps. Although these dependencies were not difficult to see,
few had thought through the implications of losing so many aspects of modern life
at once.

In reply to a post by c_j:

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of us

Is there an official topic yet for pointing out the stupidity of the current plans for BT Digital Voice (and similar shortsightedness) in a time of increasingly frequent wide area power outages ?

I hope not: it's been done to death already.

In short: it's happening, you aren't going to be able to change it, so tough luck.

UKPN have announced goodwill payments for outages from Storm Eunice lasting longer than 24 hours. Details are here.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by c_j:

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of us

Is there an official topic yet for pointing out the stupidity of the current plans for BT Digital Voice (and similar shortsightedness) in a time of increasingly frequent wide area power outages ?

I hope not: it's been done to death already.

In short: it's happening, you aren't going to be able to change it, so tough luck.

While it is set in stone that the copper is being removed there is a head of steam building up about the contingency arrangements as the people in rural areas who were previously unaware of the impact of the changes are now waking up to the problem. People in the metropolitan areas have absolutely no concept of the problems that will be caused so often take a dismissive attitude. However they should be aware that the current contingency arrangements proposed by OFCOM (back up of 1 hour) are unlikely to be the definitive resolution.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

While it is set in stone that the copper is being removed

It's not about copper removal: it's about removal of baseband voice service from the copper. Even those who remain with copper will have digital voice over VDSL or ADSL, if they choose to retain their voice service.

The PSTN switch-off will be completed by December 2025, long before most people have migrated to FTTP.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

the current contingency arrangements proposed by OFCOM (back up of 1 hour) are unlikely to be the definitive resolution

That only applies to "vulnerable" customers. Others will get no support, and need to make their own backup power arrangements if they feel they need them.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

People in the metropolitan areas have absolutely no concept of the problems that will be caused so often take a dismissive attitude

I didn't intend to come across as "dismissive", but there is no putting the clock back now.

On the plus side, the Shared Rural Network is currently being rolled out, which means that mobile coverage should improve substantially over the next few years. Of course, how long it works in the presence of an extended power outage will depend on what arrangements are made for backup power at the cell sites.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

On the plus side, the Shared Rural Network is currently being rolled out, which means that mobile coverage should improve substantially over the next few years. Of course, how long it works in the presence of an extended power outage will depend on what arrangements are made for backup power at the cell sites.

And, for outages lasting several days, what provision people have made for charging their phone batteries.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

the current contingency arrangements proposed by OFCOM (back up of 1 hour) are unlikely to be the definitive resolution

That only applies to "vulnerable" customers. Others will get no support, and need to make their own backup power arrangements if they feel they need them.

That is the point. The current proposals only apply to vulnerable customers because OFCOM is staffed by metropolitan bureaucrats who did not understand the impact of their proposals. Given the number of people who have been without contact during the recent spells of stormy weather and have been giving their MPs a hard time there will be considerable political pressure on OFCOM to look beyond their existing urban horizon.

Will you get Trillions of pound? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-60369098

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

On the plus side, the Shared Rural Network is currently being rolled out, which means that mobile coverage should improve substantially over the next few years. Of course, how long it works in the presence of an extended power outage will depend on what arrangements are made for backup power at the cell sites.

And, for outages lasting several days, what provision people have made for charging their phone batteries.

Mobile power-packs are ten-a-penny from your local phone accessories store. Keep a few charged up like we used to keep candles for power cuts.

If you have a normal car on the driveway, its battery will charge your phone many times over.

On the other hand, if you have an electric car, you could power your entire house from it for days

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In short: it's happening, you aren't going to be able to change it, so tough luck.

I do agree with you, I wonder how many normal folk currently have a spare phone (not requiring mains power) in the cupboard ready for when power outages occur? There are always pro's and con's to every technology change but we all learn to live with them.

Edited by deleted (Tue 22-Feb-22 14:03:24)

Haha. Reminds me of Dr Evil and the “One Hundred Million Dollars!!” scene.

Actually be closer to £190. Might pay for some diesel and hassle factor.

The definition of irony….

The copper drop to the house came down in the storm.

The separate FTTP drop stayed up. Both FTTP (and mobiles) worked perfectly all the way through the 72 hours and 15 minutes we were “off grid”. Go figure.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The copper drop to the house came down in the storm.

The separate FTTP drop stayed up. Both FTTP (and mobiles) worked perfectly all the way through the 72 hours and 15 minutes we were “off grid”. Go figure.

Just shows, people shouldn't rely on a PSTN service in bad weather.

Copper has never been reliable here.

I abandoned it around 2014 when the nearest EE mast was upgraded to 4G. Stayed with that as long as possible then shifted to FTTPoD.

Power outages aren’t a ‘surprise’ here either. Although 3 days straight was getting a bit tiresome. We choose to live in the sticks and it’s obvious we’re not magically served by all UG HV and LV wiring - so get prep’d for the inevitable. Candles, bottled gas, kerosene and diesel all have their place!! As well as a decent genset!!

Don't have a spare phone but a corded phone is plugged in permanently with the dect base in an extension.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The separate FTTP drop stayed up. Both FTTP (and mobiles) worked perfectly all the way through the 72 hours and 15 minutes we were “off grid”. Go figure.

I was only off for 4 hours and was OK for the hour or so the comms gear was running off the UPS but then I discovered both the O2 and Vodafone networks were down as well, so no phone at all.

In reply to a post by simon194:

I was only off for 4 hours and was OK for the hour or so the comms gear was running off the UPS but then I discovered both the O2 and Vodafone networks were down as well, so no phone at all.

It is to be hoped that the new Emergency Services Network to provide radio communication to Police, Fire, Ambulance etc. is more robust. This is using EE infrastructure including building or refurbishing about 300 mobile masts in the most remote and rural parts of Great Britain and upgrading 4G coverage (ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-emerg...). Going to need lots of battery or generator back-up for extended periods of time if recent weather is repeated in the future.